TRPG General Chat

BESW

00:00

@MikeQ Not sure what you mean?

Glazius

...holy toledo, they seriously didn't print "flip when you character completes a short/long rest" on the back?

MikeQ

@BESW You ever play Dominion (the card game) or any variants?

BESW

@MikeQ The closest I have experience with is Magic: the Gathering.

A_S00

It's a CRPG/Roguelike, but Slay the Spire made waves recently representing your character's moves as cards in a deckbuilding game.

BESW

@Glazius Nope. And my group didn't do that much. Mostly we "tapped" cards, turning them sideways when unavailable so we could still see them.

MikeQ

00:03

@BESW It's a deck-building game where players draw from the deck, discard, and reshuffle - effectively cycling through the deck. So I was musing if a similar "cycle" has been worked into any TTRPG system mechanics, in contrast to games where players are tracking multiple different cooldowns over multiple rounds.

BESW

Or piled them all up to the side as we used them.

@MikeQ There's some games that use ordinary playing-card decks in roughly analogous ways.

But I wouldn't think of them as cooldowns.

Glazius

@MikeQ Yes and no. There's a teefin' RPG called Project Dark that I playtested where the gimmick is you start with like ace-4 in various card suits and character development puts more different cards in, so anything you use is out until the reshuffle.

But it's still in a kickstarter professionalism stall as far as I know.

I think Blades ate a decent quantity of its lunch.

V2Blast

00:44

presented without context:

@Archmage_Derek I am Moist.

Tweeted by JeremyECrawford on January 29, 2019 at 12:16 AM in reply to Archmage_Derek

BESW

I prefer Rooster the Paladin, myself.

David Coffron

00:56

0

Q: What is the maximum number of Fireballs a 12th level character can cast in a day?

In a brief RPG General Chat discussion, Yuuki suggested a character idea based around casting fireball as a primary method of combat. I think this would be a fun gag character for a comedic mini-campaign/one-shot, so I am wondering if it is feasible mechanically. Even though they are often unuse...

There you go @Yuuki

(I chose 12th level because you get a good number of spell slots, but not quite to the really high level slots)

Ben

Guten<tag> everybody

So I have an interesting issue we need to deal with in our game. To let a secret out that will affect the entire globe, or not, and if so, how?

BESW

Are you playing in a system which helps mechanize those sorts of choices, or is it purely free-form?

Ben

@BESW Purely free form

David Coffron

@Ben What genre

Ben

The situation is that we ran into a time traveller that revealed that an intergalactic creature had landed on earth - 5 months from our current point in time. The event kills one of the best superheroes (effectively our version of superman), and makes any and all plant and insect life go crazy - including supers.

@DavidCoffron Savage Worlds

David Coffron

01:07

is it like modern global society, more medieval/renaissance where nations are more isloated because of technology limitations) or futuristic

Ben

@DavidCoffron Modern.

There is a private company that is tracking it, and we know about it due to our encounter, but it is becoming more evident sue to global activity. The police, heightened crimes, etc, have no idea about it.

BESW

So you've got a James Holden Dilemma.

David Coffron

If you'll even be believed (maybe more likely if supers are common-place), the mass hysteria might be a valid reason to stay quiet (except perhaps to select authorities). Going public is probably never good since the average person can't help anyway

Ben

So, we've come to a bit of a standstill... some of us want to give a full confession to the police, so that they are informed of the situation, however, I want to simply leave it as a "rumor", theres a cult apparently, from what we've experienced, the only members appear to be insect and plant creatures.

BESW

Is it really a pivot on which the entire story will turn, both by radically changing the setting's status quo AND by forcing the PCs to face their culpability in the changes and what it means about themselves and each other?

Or is it a moment that will be dramatic but won't fundamentally alter the nature of the setting or the party dynamics?

Ben

01:11

My aim is to give them a direction to investigate, and also reduce public panic (ooh theres a cult vs "GIANT SPACE MONSTER COMING TO EAT US ALL")

@BESW Our entire campaign has been pivoting around this event.

BESW

Are you the GM or a player?

Ben

Player.

I'm feeling like giving the police the rumour is enough.

As in addition to giving them a direction, it will also stop them from investigating me, who is also experiencing effects of the grainiac creature

BESW

It sounds like the other players want to be responsible for something dramatic and world-shaking.

ACuriousMind

Just do what players always do: Spend half a session coming up with a detailed plan for the revelation, then have it disintegrate when someone completely accidentally discloses the information to the public.

Ben

Their reasoning was that they want to do everything they can to ensure that the authorities are properly informed of all details, regardless of how it disturbs the water - I want to reduce the ripples as much as I can.

@ACuriousMind Oh, we do that all the time.

Yuuki

01:23

@DavidCoffron Hmm... I should ask as a related question, what is the most amount of times I can prepare Fireball as a Wizard (or other prepared caster).

BESW

Yeah, a whole team of Holdens.

Yuuki

Because part of the gag was holding up a spell list consisting entirely of Fireball.

But then again, spell preparation is different in 5e than in 3.5e, IIRC.

Ben

@BESW Google is coming up with nothing about the phrase haha

BESW

James Holden is one of the main characters in the book/TV series The Expanse. His primary character note for the first several story arcs is "I have discovered a secret which will likely spark interplanetary war! I must tell EVERYONE as soon as possible because I'm sure it'll turn out fine. Information must be free! ...wait, why is everyone bombing each other and also trying to kill me?"

trogdor

@Ben try adding Expanse

Ben

01:27

@BESW Ah yes. fair enough

trogdor

Oh lol NVM

BESW

(After the... third? time he does this, he starts getting self-loathing about all the death he's caused. And then he makes things WORSE by keeping secrets that he shouldn't.)

trogdor

He isn't a great model for a smart guy

BESW

But really, he spends more time being upset about finding out that he's not actually a Special Boy.

trogdor

Lol

But mooooooom daaad other mom other dad other parents blah blah blah

Ben

01:30

@BESW Oh dear hahaha

trogdor

XD

Sorry I had to make the stupid joke

(he has like, 7 parents? )

BESW

I wish I didn't know why he's the main character, because literally EVERY OTHER PERSON in the stories is more interesting than Blandman McPityparty.

trogdor

Why IS he the main character?

You might have told me before

But I honestly don't remember if you did

BESW

[shrug] He's the rich white boy. Default scifi POV.

trogdor

Ah ok

I thought something in the ballpark

Ben

01:39

Well, if anything that does impact upon my decision somewhat... I'm trying to keep ourselves free of the authorities eyes, so we can actually work somewhat freely to try and defeat this grainiac creature. The potential that people will point fingers at us for keeping secrets should we actually tell the truth, and all that entails really does deficit that

Ben

02:22

So how is everybody?

Glazius

Mulling over a question and whether it's too generic or list-asky. Can I pick some brains?

Ben

So long as I get them back

Glazius

(curses, he's seen through my clever scheme!) I mean, uh, sure.

So basically: youtube.com/watch?v=LQsJSqn71Fw

There are players and there are audience members. Players think about the game outside the game, audience members show up to play and not engage too much, and while you can't get by on all audience it's fine if they're having fun. Just don't put them in a spot.

> plays Dungeon World

> literally one of my directives is "put someone in a spot"

>what do

And, I mean, it's not just a "this is who this player is forever" problem, either. Some people have really on weeks and really off weeks.

Your Apocalypse World engine works great if everybody's at the table keyed up and kind of not at all for someone who isn't. Is there some kind of state between "you're in" and "you're out" anywhere in the corpus that I can give people who show up and would have fun being audience?

This is the rough shape of the question, and it feels kind of list-beggy and system-shoppy to me.

Ben

@Glazius Who is giving this directive?

Glazius

The rules.

Like, literally, that's how you play, you put people in difficult positions and toss them tough choices.

Ben

02:34

Ok. So are you asking whether or not you should, or how to handle it when you do?

Glazius

I'm asking if there's something I can do when someone's having an off night and isn't feeling up to being in a difficult position making tough choices, other than "write them out for the night" or "cancel".

Ben

Ahh ok

Glazius

D&D they'd probably be fine in the background unless they played a Batman wizard.

Ben

Unfortunately I personally don't have too much experience with DW, but if t's a part of the rules I daresay that there are ways to manage this - tried and tested.

You might get a few different suggestions, but I don't think it's a bad question, or "list-asky" as you say.

Ben

02:56

Hope that gave some direction?

Joshua

Is it just me or is Time Stop counterspell or die?

Joel Harmon

@Joshua Well, anyone with Time Stop is almost definitionally a high level caster, so basically yes.

Your best defence may well be to have so many allies along that the mage doesn't see you as one of the 50 or so biggest threats.

Joshua

Your best defense is probably teleport the heck out.

Joel Harmon

I don't think you can typically do that as a reaction, which should still be valid during a Time Stop event.

Ben

@Glazius I just got to the "Audience member/Casual Gamer" description. I don't see this problem as a "problem", everyone is going to have to do something they don't like to do once in a while.

trogdor

03:13

They shouldn't have to during a game of all things though

Joel Harmon

@Glazius Frame challenge: you do not have a directive to put someone in a spot. You have an Agenda. In support of that, you have some Principles. From those, you have free reign to choose any of the tools known as Moves, one of which happens to be "put them in a spot".

Rather, situationally you sometimes end up getting to choose from the list of 11 moves.

Joshua

Some of my favorite traps are things in the dungeon that are best just bypassed.

Glazius

@JoelHarmon Yeah, I'm kind of being facetious there? One move actually says "put someone in a spot" but how many of those moves don't say some variant of "put someone on the spot"?

Joel Harmon

@Glazius I'd say all of them are open for interpretation to one extent or another. For example, "deal damage" doesn't necessarily mean "to the PCs". "Put them in a spot" has a pretty strong rock vs. hard place implication, providing immediacy that isn't necessarily there in most other Moves, but it could be there in any of them.

Glazius

03:37

But I'm constantly asking people what they're doing, and if they say what they're doing, they have to have been paying enough attention to the goings-on to form a picture of what they're doing and make it clear to everybody else.

I mean... I don't know.

I don't know if I ever was that kind of player.

And if I was it was a long time ago.

It just doesn't seem possible to play an Apocalypse Engine game with someone who doesn't feel up to engaging with it.

But I'd like to offer someone who shows up having an off night more choices than "you don't play" and "we don't play".

Joel Harmon

I suppose if the concern is "PbtA requires players to be engaged" then that's a somewhat different thing than "these players are not currently prepared to make difficult choices in game". Maybe they're tired, maybe they're generally not suited to it.

As a DM, one thing you do have great control over is what choices you offer. Asking them whether they want cake or pie may be too big a choice. Asking mincemeat pie or cherry pie is still a choice, but a simpler and more well defined one.

Glazius

03:55

Hm.

I think it is a bit rubbish as a question in the end because I don't know what would make a good solution.

Because I can't really put myself in the mindset of a disengaged player.

Ben

@Glazius I have been in that position...

Maybe try me?

I can help you with that insight if you'd like?

Glazius

Well, no, I mean.

If I asked the question.

I would have to judge the answers, based on a perspective I don't have.

Ben

@Glazius Yeh, That's what I'm offering, perhaps offering an insight into that perspective

Joel Harmon

@Glazius Then present your question: "How do I handle a player with undesirable behavior X?" is certainly on topic; your X happens to be apathy.

Spoilers: at least one answer will be "talk to the players", including asking them what they're looking for from the game, and/or why they are there.

Ben

@JoelHarmon Prolly me haha

Joel Harmon

04:04

One alternative blatantly stolen from chat a few days ago is to try something a bit different, but tie it in to the normal game. Namely, run something like Great Ork Gods (mindless cartoon violence) set somewhere else in the campaign world. Maybe in a session or two your PCs will come across a somewhat surreal battlefield or something.

Glazius

So, diet "we don't play".

Joel Harmon

@Glazius Mostly. Remember, the prime goal is that everyone should have fun. Maybe that means it's board game night or movie night instead of DW night.

Sorry, I need to head out now.

Joshua

04:35

Beware of D&D characters having strange hobbies.

Ben

New PC idea. The player has sub-par to average stats, except charisma - they have godlike charisma. Whatever class they are (Fighter, Wizard, Cleric), they only got there through some train of misadventure and miscommunication, and they are really not fit for the job, but the are incredibly lucky (Luck Feat) which is how they have survived as long as they have.

Joshua

lol

Ben

One issue I have seen a lot of the time is that a lot of PCs come up with tragic backstories. That's not a bad thing - it can open up for interesting plotlines. Drama that needs to be resolved. But it can also be good to have a character that is just there to adventure, because they have a big sword and just want to see the world

Yuuki

05:09

@JoelHarmon As a corollary, I know that my play tends to come across as apathetic. I don't talk very much and sorta lurk in the background. Part of it is that I tend to play with bigger personalities so I've gotten used to being a supporting character, so to speak, and the other part is very much decision paralysis.

Joshua

Or maybe I'm just there until I can get a high enough caster level to set sail for the stars.

Ben

05:31

So I have recently stumbled on some photos of my father as a child. It's always great to see your role models as kids haha

trogdor

05:44

Lol, I've seen some of my father as a kid but most disturbing was the one of him with that,.... Horrible mustache in his early adulthood

Never unseeing that one

I'm one to talk but still

Ben

Haha

I think my dad might have intentionally "photobombed" my grad photo with a terrible moustache haha

trogdor

Paternal parental units are ridiculous creatures

Ben

I look forward to being a more influential father figure....

[cackles evilly]

trogdor

Yes, evil laughter is the most important component right?

kviiri

@Ben Tragic is/feels common enough in the media... although it's pointedly absent in some works, eg. Lord of the Rings, where everyone starts out pretty peachy (of the protagonists, I mean)

trogdor

05:56

I guess that depends who you mean by protagonist

Or what you mean by tragic

Well I guess technically the bad stuff mostly happens after the story starts

If I remember right

Of what I even did read

Those books weren't the easiest to read

V2Blast

my dad looked mostly like me when he was younger (as every family member keeps commenting on when they see me)

Ben

@V2Blast yeah, there quite a few photos where you can see the resemblance between my father and I. And even if we didn't look alike, we do have a few behavioural similarities as well

V2Blast

it's gotten to the point where I just respond with a sigh and "I know"

Ben

@kviiri True. Sometimes having the adventure is enough to bring drama into a character's life

It can certainly allow for a "blank canvas", which opens up to creativity :)

I often have PCs like that, where the character development happens as part of the campaign.

kviiri

@trogdor Yea. I mean, Frodo's lost his parents but I wouldn't really count that as a tragic backstory since it's been a while and he isn't grieving anymore

But yet, tragic backstory is an easy way to show that "I have thought about my character, see?"

Ben

06:14

Also true haha

kviiri

Sadly, in TTRPGs it doesn't always work that well. Like backstories in general they need other players'support to amount to anything

BESW

That's one reason I gravitate toward games with interPC backstories baked into the chargen.

Recently ran across a game (can't remember which right now) where you figured out the PCs' relationships to each other as the first step of chargen.

V2Blast

My druid in a recent SKT campaign (...that stopped after 2 sessions due to dropouts and IRL schedule changes) had a tragedy in his backstory that was mostly incidental, simply because I decided to base the character's start in FR lore and the place I had him be from (which he left) happened to collapse into the Underdark in that lore. He was a super-old dwarf druid that got sick of the workaholic-ness of the area and went off to live by himself long before any of that happened.

kviiri

One of our players used one of those joke DnD character concept generators to base his char. He got Gnome Barbarian who burned his home and doesn't speak Common.

BESW

06:29

My first PC was a librarian priest who went adventuring to collect books for his new library, and to track down whoever burned down his old library.

Mark Wells

@BESW For the D&D game I'm running now, we built the party's backstories using the relationship tables from Fiasco.

V2Blast

I think most of my other characters have some sort of tragedy that started them adventuring?

MikeQ

I suggest only using a tragic backstory if it can be worked into the gameplay at the table

Otherwise, if it's just "my character is edgy because..." then it doesn't really matter.

V2Blast

technically my aarakocra monk's tribe was attacked but it's because he accidentally led a gargoyle there after getting hammered one night and got kicked out of the tribe. then he eventually got taken in by a monastery, and after that is when he started adventuring. so it wasn't really a personal tragedy besides him getting kicked out, and that's not exactly what spurred him to adventure

my edgy tiefling warlock had a childhood tragedy but didn't adventure until later. he works as a bounty hunter

BESW

One of my more recent long-form campaign characters was a social worker doing a ride-along with another PC to make sure they were fitting into their current placement.

V2Blast

06:33

Hahaha, nice

honestly I don't think any of my characters are the particularly happy sort

although my rogue in one campaign (I play him with 2 different builds in 2 different campaigns) is on the happier side... he has a girlfriend (another NPC halfling)

BESW

In that same campaign I also played a swashbuckling rocketeer whose backstory was completely unknown.

She was there to do awesome stunts and pick up ~~guys~~ ~~chicks~~ consenting sapients.

V2Blast

lol

kviiri

07:01

I think it's one of the biggest lessons of RPG character building I've ever learned that a character doesn't exist in a vacuum: their personalities and passions are shown through their relations with other characters and these relationships should be paid attention to more than "solo" backstories

trogdor

@BESW ah yes, the one I felt awkward GMing for :P

(it was actually very fun)

BESW

@kviiri The best character moments in that campaign were between Troggy's ~~mad~~ scientist character and Greener's plant-person that the scientist created and raised.

trogdor

oh god

I loved that

BESW

(Or, in one memorable instance, between Greener's plant person and a villain posing as Troggy's scientist.)

trogdor

I want more of that

both those things were the best

probably actually my favorite sessions involved that stuff

of almost anything

GSS and Lady Blackbird hold up well too

trogdor

07:45

(and really a bunch of things were still fun but that really was my top experience)

I felt a little guilty like I had to list everything that was fun for a minute there

The Oracle

09:04

-1

Q: How to link D&D beyond without owning the related resources?

As someone who asks a lot of mechanic related questions I often get edits where links are added to D&D beyond. I would love to do this myself but i am not a fan of D&D beyond and thus have not purchased anything on the site. So my question is: Are there ways to link to the related articles with...

support dnd-5e

BESW

09:17

> Strike a pose. Once per scene when you Flashily create an advantage by posing dramatically, you get wpn:2 or armor:1 (pick one when you take this stunt) for the rest of the scene.

doppelgreener

10:07

I love that.

trogdor

it makes too much sense

Derpy

@doppelgreener welcome to the magical world of Mahoujin Guru Guru, where that technique is basically cannon

vicky_molokh

Hmm. Action economy loss for a flexibility gain.

Though the CaA is a gain all on its own, so it's not bad.

BESW

10:26

Yeah, it follows the standard "when you do a regular mechanical thing, you get an extra benefit because you have this stunt" formula.

Depending on the specific iteration of Fate, I might make it "pick one each time you use this stunt" instead; some Fates are more powerful than others.

vicky_molokh

I mean I'm comparing: +2 Weapon is generally considered a standard Stunt, IIRC.

It's just there. Haduken or whatever.

But it's static, not choosable in the scene.

BESW

And a wpn:x stunt is usually tied to a specific weapon/attack/style/whatever.

And weapon/armor ratings are... different... from flat +2s, because they can't ever get fully overrun the way a +2 can, but they're also not at all useful until they kick in.

Weapon/armor ratings make ties more interesting, which I like.

vicky_molokh

1 Armour is a really bad deal, yeah. Because of the way Boosts work.

+2 weapon is okay though.

BESW

For a less finicky version...

doppelgreener

@Derpy what an excellent magical world

BESW

10:34

> Strike a pose. You get +3 instead of +2 when invoking advantages created by posing Flashily.

vicky_molokh

From each invocation?

Because if yes, this looks good. Narrow, but powerful if you use it right. If only on one invocation, then I wouldn't buy that Stunt.

BESW

For each, yes.

If I meant the other thing, I'd go with "you get an extra free invoke" rather than"You get +3 instead of +2."

But I want a stunt that implies action flowing from a pose, not just standing in the pose.

vicky_molokh

So if you get two free invocations and spend a FP, that's a +3 right away, and then team tactics should involve everyone spending FP on your Pose Aspect on next exchanges. Extremely conditional, but strong if team tactics apply.

Though I must say, I always felt that an overwhelming majority of Stunts are extremely conditional and not worth their cost because they come up at best once every 2-3 sessions.

(And by 'always' I mean 'a bit over a dozen games, summing both GMing and playing'.)

BESW

It's very easy for a group of players to pick stunts that don't mesh well narratively, leading to competing attempts to swing the narrative towards one's own stunts.

In my experience, part of the solution is a lot of talking about what you expect in the game during character creation.

And part of it is not filling in all your stunt slots prior to play.

Because part of having a stunt on your sheet is, it's a prompt to the player to try and bend the story toward situations where that stunt will be awesome.

It's possible to write stunts which are easier to do that with.

[rummages for Doctor Who PCs link again]

vicky_molokh

> a lot of talking about what you expect in the game during character creation

Always trying this, always end up getting answers along the lines 'Don't be such a control freak, just make whatever without trying to plan everything, and play it in reaction to what happens'. Or there is a talk, but in the end the GM admits not being able to predict the future stuff to a level of precision required to influence chargen.
(Note: experience both in this system and others, and in various gaming groups over the years.)

BESW

10:45

> Because I am a polymath, I get +2 when I use my book learning to Carefully create an advantage.
Because I figure things out for a living, I get +2 when I use Clever observation to create advantages.
Because I have leadership training, I get +2 when Flashily creating aspects to coordinate a plan.
Because I work for UNIT, once per session I can automatically create a boost representing my prior experience with a particular threat.

vicky_molokh

Err, how do I quote-format only part of a message?

BESW

You can't. Each entry is indented or not.

So, here's the thing: those stunts I just shared (from these pre-made Doctor Who PCs) are triggered by the character's actions, not by the character's context.

vicky_molokh

Also, I should've specified that I'm operating in the Core variant of the system, not the Accelerated version. In case it influences advice given.

BESW

Not really. Accelerated, Core, ARRPG, Fate of the TMNT, they're all the same system with dials turned up and down.

vicky_molokh

Stunt applicability does seem to differ.

BESW

10:48

Stunt formulas change, but for our purposes we're talking about how the stunts lock into story and that doesn't really change much.

Here's some stunts from Atomic Robo-level Fate mechanics:

> Good Dog. I get +2 when citing policy to create advantages with Rapport.
Safety first! When I create an aspect by following documented safety guidelines, I get an extra free invoke on it.
Practical Rocket Science. You can use Vehicles in place of any applicable Science skill when working with vehicles that have an engine of some sort.

These don't really assume that there'll be specific situational triggers; they're more about how characters solve problems or make situations more comfortable.

If you have a stunt for parrying sword attacks, that might not come up much without the GM specifically helping you out.

But if you have a stunt for being quick to throw a punch, you can use that on your own terms in many different scenes.

> Because I am swift in battle, I get +2 when I Quickly make a physical attack.

Geoffrey Lim

tragic backstory huh, 1/3 of my charachters have a tragic backstory so far

on average

like half my charachters dead parents are just

vicky_molokh

Using book learning to Carefully CaA sounds very broad compared to typical Core stunts. And a flat +2 is better than the results too. Compare:

> Eavesdropper. On a successful Investigate roll to create an advantage
by eavesdropping on a conversation, you can discover or create one
additional aspect (though this doesn’t give you an extra free invocation).

Geoffrey Lim

"yeah they died of old age that was years ago, I took a week off work to handle their funerals..."

vicky_molokh

Out of six sessions so far, I'm playing an Investigation-oriented PC, doing many CaAs with Investigate. Cases when I'd benefit from such a stunt: zero.

BESW

11:05

[shrug] Balance is game-to-game in my experience. For a Doctor Who game, I erred on "you're awesome." But also Careful investigation is hard to do in a Doctor Who story, so I weighted it more.

That's part of the thing: the less your stunt triggers, the more awesome the effect can be.

doppelgreener

@BESW I'd go for: "Strike a pose. Once per scene when you Flashily create advantage by posing dramatically, you get an additional free invocation on the aspect you create."

BESW

And frequency of trigger is... well, I always let people revise stunts for free during the first session or two as we get the hang of the game.

The rough goal is for a stunt to average about a +2 worth of benefit per scene.

vicky_molokh

@doppelgreener 1 extra invocation per session, on highly restricted conditions, sounds weak.

And I say session because it seems atypical to have two combats per session.

doppelgreener

Why would this be limited to combats?

BESW

Greener's stunt doesn't mention combat.

vicky_molokh

11:07

In fact over the many games I played in various systems, every-session combats seem atypical.

Ah. Well, because I thought it was a variation on the Stunt that gave Weapon and Armour bonuses, not a new thing.

BESW

I can use his stunt as a courtroom lawyer or a competitive dancer or just to boost my own confidence in front of the mirror when I'm psyching myself up before a date.

doppelgreener

@vicky_molokh It is both!

BESW

One of the cool things about brainstorming stunts together is that people find cool re-interpretations of the concept and make it work in more/different narrative spaces.

doppelgreener

Your stunt made me think of Gurren Lagann, and of characters like Kamina and Simon inspiring and pepping people up through ridiculous speeches and flashy poses.

And I find it funny that the stunt attaches the power to the pose rather than the speech, it's perfect.

BESW

11:27

I was thinking of a lot of things; starting with how superpowered people tend to pose a lot mid-battle, and then being reminded of this:

doppelgreener

Superb

BESW

It's the sort of stunt Jessie should have, I think.

> Triumphant Monologue. If you inflict a consequence on an enemy and they are still in the conflict on your next turn, you can increase their consequence's severity to their next-highest available consequence slot by revealing a crucial secret to them (as if compelled to do so) instead of taking a regular action that turn.

trogdor

@BESW lol

BESW

11:56

Status update, Tuesday 43rd January: - delays on the Circle line due to a tired wizard - signal failure at Bank causing the Central line to question its place in the universe - this thing *gestures vaguely at all-consuming spherical void* which is causing a few issues at Holborn

Tweeted by TlfTravelAlerts on January 29, 2019 at 8:43 AM

doppelgreener

12:17

@BESW one problem i see there with that stunt: you can't actually use that unless you actually have a secret to share. and implicitly it probably ought to be the kind which the narrative says can do that. "i have a jar of raspberry jam in my pocket" would work in Doctor Who, not so much in Riddick.

but then, that's not necessarily a problem, you could have a character or narrative where you're definitely going to be making sure you have those secrets.

and/or you basically establish a fact somehow by revealing a new secret??

BESW

It's primarily a villain trope, so it's primarily a villain stunt.

But yes, using the stunt as a prompt to invent a crucial secret would be very Fate-ly, and reminiscent of InSpectres too.

(The Doctor once distracted an NPC by confessing the extremely controversial information that he's half human.)

(Which later turned out to be a very very ~~dumb~~ crucial MacGuffin plot point for the villain to exploit.)

> Too easy. When you take an enemy out in a conflict, you can offer them the opportunity to concede instead. If they choose to concede, at the end of the scene you get as many fate points as they did for the concession.

doppelgreener

Oh wow.

vicky_molokh

13:39

Too easy does look like a strong stunt, providing 4 FP when facing a equal opponent. But I wonder how often it's actually possible to use, given it needs the enemy to not have conceded.

Utility also depends on when the big confrontation happens - at the end of a session, after the session's finale, and right before a refresh (and likely an arc ending) getting extra FP is less useful than at some point in the beginning or middle.

The Oracle

13:55

0

Q: How can I encourage good grammar without being rude?

I've had this issue come up multiple times during my time here: a new user comes in full of enthusiasm and things to contribute but their posts are riddled with grammar/punctuation errors and the format is all over the place. I am comfortable with guiding a user through best practices formatting-...

discussion etiquette

goodguy5

team, I'm so tired.

Rubiksmoose

@goodguy5 :( I'm sending some karmic energy your way.

goodguy5

I've had pretty bad Couvade Syndrome all pregnancy, so it's not surprising.

Rubiksmoose

@goodguy5 ah yeah I remember that discussion. I wish there was a way to help :(

Have you tried Greater Restoration?

goodguy5

Soon, the situtation will... uh... "help" itself.

Rubiksmoose

14:08

Loved that pregnant pause there.

goodguy5

hyukhyuk

Rubiksmoose

@goodguy5 when is goodbaby5 due?

goodguy5

ha!

Feb 18th

Rubiksmoose

Not too much longer then!

goodguy5

yea. it's super close

3 weeks

and I don't think she's going to make it the full time.

my guess is feb 15th, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it were as early as the 10th

Rubiksmoose

14:28

Definitely the home stretch then!

Wich is good because it doesn't sound like you would last much longer ;)

nitsua60

15:09

@goodguy5 I like your answer to Rubiksmoose's meta, but the first line makes me a little squidgy. I know from here that you two have an easy relationship, but I imagine a meta reader who didn't know either of you might come away thinking "that's pretty snarky =(" What do you think about removing or rewording it?

goodguy5

16:04

fiiiiine

better?
https://rpg.meta.stackexchange.com/a/8770/34716

MikeQ

"Hand me down the snark repellent Bat-Spray!"

GreySage

I posted a question on a stack other than this one, and actually got an answer in less than a day! Amazing.

goodguy5

I'm impressed that I posted on another stack and didn't get downvoted.

probably because Moose isn't there

Rubiksmoose

@goodguy5 curses I step away for one moment and miss a golden oppportunity to downvote

kviiri

16:19

Evenin'

Just popping in briefly to see what's up before I go help my friends move house :)

goodguy5

@Xirema I didn't look at the name and hadn't finished reading when I thought to myself. "hrm... this seems like Xirema wrote it, lemme check the credits."

kviiri

@goodguy5 Also congrats and best wishes regarding your upcoming parenthood!

goodguy5

^_^ thanks

MikeQ

@goodguy5 What class are you hoping for

kviiri

One of my friends is also expecting a child in Feb, and he's quite religious so I believe he wants a Cleric or Paladin. Although Paladin kids can be creepy

"Father, thou art a sinner" gets old quite quick.

"Thou shalt not let mashed potatoes touch the peas, for that is the will of Pelor whose blazing visage bringeth growth to both"

Xirema

16:30

@goodguy5 Was it the Math fetishism, or the writing style? =P

Rubiksmoose

@doppelgreener good edit on that geas question. I was pondering how best to accomplish that as well but was stumped.

GreySage

@MikeQ For the first 3 years all children are Bards. Super high charisma, skilled in performance and singing, uncontrollable flirting, etc.

Xirema

TBH, I do think the decision to explicitly reference Wish was a holdover from an earlier edition. I can't prove it without finding one of the PHB writers and Bother™ing them until they admit it, but don't act shocked if that turns out to be the reason.

doppelgreener

@Xirema I completely agree with everything you've just said there.

GreySage

@Xirema I feel like this happened with most of the spells. Like, they took a lot of time and effort with most of the rest of the system, then copy+pasted the spells in at the last minute

doppelgreener

16:38

In fact that's probably true for almost every question of "Why is $thing the way it is in D&D 5e?" where $thing is not completely unprecedented.

@GreySage [cough] actually literally without exaggeration what happened at multiple stages of the playtest

there was a point where the monk class in the playtest packet had some high-level spells copied word-for-word from a previous edition, referencing concepts from that previous edition that weren't even defined in this one, requiring monk levels actually unobtainable in the playtest packet scope because there were not rules available for how to reach that level.

Rubiksmoose

@doppelgreener oopsie!

doppelgreener

this was the second or third playtest packet IIRC

Rubiksmoose

That is pretty incredible though. I had no idea that happened.

doppelgreener

the early days of the playtesting were ... disappointing and disillusioning.

Rubiksmoose

Sounds like it... wow. :-/

Xirema

16:42

I think it's also the only reason Fireball deals 8d6 damage, way above curve for other AOE spells at that level.

doppelgreener

they were making blog posts describing how they were trying to do a simple modular system where you could plug in greater detail, and it sounded vague and ambitious, and then when the first playtest packet came along it looked like they had suddenly realised a deadline was coming up which they couldn't meet, dropped everything they'd been doing, and just hastily threw together a typical set of D&D rules and released that.

MikeQ

@GreySage Really? Not barbarians?

doppelgreener

they then released it with a tone of "here's the thing!" without acknowledging the dissonance between their lead-in announcements and what was actually delivered

GreySage

@MikeQ Nah, Barbarian is for when they turn 3.

doppelgreener

what we got was a perfectly fine entirely reasonable entry into the D&D series: something largely hearkening back to AD&D days and simplifying a bunch of things which really got out of hand in D&D 3.5e, and targeting the players who got alienated by D&D 4e and moved on to Pathfinder.

it just wasn't the thing they were talking about and in the beginning it was just really shaky and ... that.

goodguy5

16:47

@Xirema the math fetishism

hrm.... night elf mohawk
or a lumberjack abe lincoln

GreySage

@goodguy5 Not a vampire hunter Abe Lincoln?

doppelgreener

Also kinda upsetting was that in their clear appeal to pre-4e players, they implemented tons of D&D 4e improvements but without acknowledging so much as 4e's existence. 3.5e, AD&D, OD&D, sure, those existed, but let's not mention D&D 4e at all, and let's present these things we're implementing as brand new innovations rather than genuine imrpovements 4e made that 5e was keeping.

So that was pretty alienating.

goodguy5

Unforgotten Realms: Episode 1

►

doppelgreener

@goodguy5 beautiful

goodguy5

"Dual wielding nunchuck Abraham Lincoln, then I concur."

aw, man. I haven't rewatched that in a long time

Rubiksmoose

17:06

@doppelgreener might we want to put that flexible casting question back on hold until OP confirms that my rewrite meets their need? Or do you think it's clear enough? I essentially rewrote the question for them with the intent to see how they felt about it before reopening it.

MikeQ

@GreySage Classes don't have age restrictions in 5e, so a human infant could have 1 level in barbarian and be considered proficient with armor and martial weapons

Backgrounds also have no age restriction, so you can assign your child the Hermit background instead of spending tuition on medical school

Rubiksmoose

@doppelgreener Well I guess they seem fine with it? Even though they haven't answered my comment directly.

doppelgreener

17:23

Let's go with the flow for now

It looks like they're OK with it

Rubiksmoose

Cool.

Just checking.

doppelgreener

@MikeQ they could in fact also be level 20 barbarian, if they're crying please be careful

nitsua60

@goodguy5 updoot from me =)

MikeQ

@doppelgreener Regarding JJBA in Fate, do you think 「STAND」 powers would be best represented as character aspects+stunts, or as some sort of separate mini-character with its own aspects, skills, and stunts?

nitsua60

@doppelgreener This is true, they come with 20 levels of barbarian out of the gate.

Interminable +7 rage? Yup, that's an infant.

(Until the levels of exhaustion kick in.)

doppelgreener

17:31

@nitsua60 I'd never considered that. So the first few years are basically getting them to despec or respec?

@MikeQ Extras

The mini-character you described, as an extra

MikeQ

Assume house rules that exclude ridiculous abilities like Heaven's Door and King Crimson, I don't think those can be quantified into sensible mechanics

doppelgreener

The original Stardust Crusaders stands were frequently just like stunts ("I can make vines" and "I can make spooky oracular photos") but in Diamonds are Unbreakable and in Golden Wind they got fleshed out to the point I think we'd need Extras

Because they went away from "I have a single magic trick I can do, like turn peoples' souls into poker chips" and leaned very heavily into "This is basically an avatar of my fighting spirit I use to beat people up with by proxy and do all kinds of crazy things"

Naturally it uses your own stress and consequences

MikeQ

I was thinking the 「STAND」special powers might require fate points, but their low-cost actions (e.g. punch) would not

doppelgreener

That sounds pretty reasonable

MikeQ

On the other hand, if activating any 「STAND」effects required fate points, then that could encourage players to rely on their character and wits, and reserve the supernatural silliness for dramatic moments. And that could also work.

doppelgreener

17:36

The stands could be purely aspect-based, providing justification for various actions. "I use my Forceful +3 to smash the iron door in." "How are you doing that?" "I'll use my stand." Likewise your stand's power and nature grants you justification for declaring aspects and for being compelled.

MikeQ

@doppelgreener Hmm. Ok. I definitely need to play in an actual Fate game to get a better under「STAND」ing of how aspects should be used

doppelgreener

I would be inclined to run with just a couple of aspects to define the stand, to be filled out or fleshed out when you're ready (including only defining your stand at the last moment), and see how that goes and see how far you can push it until that just doesn't make the cut anymore.

In Stardust Crusaders, a reasonable interpretation would be JoJo's player simply never ever filled in his Stand's "Special Ability:" aspect until the very last episode, at which point he decided "Hmm, yes, I think I'll make it this."

MikeQ

@doppelgreener How would you balance the different kinds of 「STAND」powers?

e.g. would "I can make fire" and "I can pause the entire darn universe" be represented by the same game mechanic?

doppelgreener

@MikeQ Honestly, not sure. I'd see how it goes and expect to provide players with the opportunity to triumph via compels. "I can make everyone around me age and die" and "I can create zippers in things" really don't seem equal, but that's still a fight we see happen.

There's a Writing.SE answer I really, really like about why villains lose:

120

A: The protagonist can't defeat the antagonist without the antagonist being stupid

Actually, most stories that have a specific antagonist depend on the antagonist being stronger than the protagonist, so logically the antagonist should win most of the time -- unless they do something stupid. We love to root for underdogs. After all, most of us are underdogs. If the hero was cl...

> The key to this question is virtue. Why do we want the hero to win? Because they are more virtuous. Why do we want the antagonist to lose? Because they lack virtue. So the difference between winning and losing must itself rest on virtue. This can take many forms:

• The antagonist loses, despite their advantages, because their signature vice leads them to make a mistake. Not a random mistake, but a mistake that they make for the very reason we hated them in the first place. Because of their cruelty, a henchman rebels against them; because of their treachery, an ally abandons them; because…

This describes exactly why Dio loses and JoJo wins.

Dio loses because he's full of himself, and takes his time until suddenly JoJo is unlocking a power that allows him to unequivocally oppose and defeat Dio, but Dio only finds this out at the worst possible time.

MikeQ

@doppelgreener I'd prefer to model the more typical fights, where the Jotagonist (or ally) out-smarts or out-observes the minor villain. The DIO Cairo showdown was more of an endurance fest and would be hard to implement.

doppelgreener

17:45

Also same.

@MikeQ The thing is: a person who can pause the entire darn universe is still just as flammable as anyone else, and can only pause it so many times before they're out of fate points (if stand powers require a fate point).

and you can spend a NANI!? point to declare that the spot they maneuvered to was exactly where you expected them to be, and the ground beneath them is about to collapse into a room on fire.

Rubiksmoose

@doppelgreener hahaha "NANI!? point" almost made me do a spit take at work

doppelgreener

@Rubiksmoose that was my friend's idea, who wanted to do JoJo's Bizarre Adventures in the first place. :D

They saw that Fate points were ideal for those "NANI!?" moments. So, naturally, they should be renamed NANI!? points.

Rubiksmoose

Absolutely perfect.

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