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11:01 PM
Lol, looks long but I'll check it out
 
most of the lines is the description of the diagram
the actual proof is 3 messages long
 
Oh, hi Demonark. We needed you earlier.
 
fin
hey
 
hello, fin
 
fin
its meow mix
 
11:04 PM
actually I'm not very convinced by my own proof
 
oh, I was wondering weeks ago what had happened to meow.
 
fin
/ zach
 
Why did you change names yet again!?
 
fin
idk needed a quick account
i got sucked in by school and programming
 
You mean you forgot your old password?
 
fin
11:05 PM
on the bright side though i guess im still doing a lot of linear algebra
like a lot
 
oh, are you?
like computer graphics?
 
fin
yep, wrote a 3d graphics engine
for a 20 year old console lol
in assembly
 
aha ... and that projective geometry becomes relevant, too
 
fin
yep homogeneous coordinates or w/e
 
well, but thinking about affine linear maps as projective transformations
see, I knew what I was doing when I tried to get you to work on that stuff
 
fin
11:07 PM
lol
 
anyhow, glad to know you're doing OK
 
If $(X,d_X)$ is a compact metric space, $(Y,d_Y)$ some other metric space, and $f : X \to Y$ a function s.t. there are $\alpha > 1$ and $M>0$ with $d_X(f(x),f(y)) \le Md_Y(x,y)^\alpha$, does this imply $f$ is constant? I know it is true when $X$ is a compact interval in $\Bbb{R}$.
 
fin
i guess,
i needed something to do so i could procrastinate studying for a test on 2 books i didnt read
 
oh oh
 
Hey everyone
Hey @TedShifrin :)
 
11:09 PM
@user193319: Where does your proof use that it's a real interval?
 
fin
anyways bye
 
bubye meow
hi Perturb
 
@TedShifrin I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. If I assume $X$ is a compact interval in $\Bbb{R}$, then I can prove the theorem. But I don't know how to prove it for a general compact space.
 
I'm asking you where you specifically used that it was an interval in $\Bbb R$.
BTW you typed the result wrong. You mixed up $d_X$ and $d_Y$.
 
@Ted I have developed a mild annoyance for people who define homotopies without giving the reader any sort of intuition as to how they constructed the formula in the end
 
11:12 PM
Well, Perturb, and other people (like Mathein) get annoyed when topologists draw pictures and don't write down formulas.
You should be able to figure out what the homotopy is doing geometrically and answer your own question.
 
Well, if $X = [a,b]$, then take $x,y \in X$ arbitrary but distinct and cut the interval $[x,y]$ into $n$ subintervals of length $\frac{|x-y|}{n}$ for $n \in \Bbb{N}$. Using the triangle inequality $n$ times, we can show $d(f(x),f(y)) < M|x-y|^{\alpha} \frac{1}{n^{\alpha-1}}$. Taking $n \to \infty$ finishes the proof.
 
what if $X \ne [a,b]$?
 
Yeah, that's what I'm wondering!
I don't have a proof for that case, and so I was wondering if it is true!
Cutting the interval into $n$-pieces is like using compactness of $[x,y]$, so I thought it might generalize.
 
I get what you're saying, nowadays I can sorta see what a homotopy is doing geometrically, but when I first started reading about them I didn't have a clue
 
Can't you just mimic the proof without literally using intervals in the line?
Perturb: That's what teachers are supposed to be for.
 
11:16 PM
@TedShifrin is the theorem even true?
 
Specifically, if $X$ is a general compact metric space, take $x,y \in X$ arbitrary but distinct. Then $\overline{B}(x,d(x,y)) \cup \overline{B}(y,d(x,y))$ is compact. I was thinking we could chop it up like I did with $[x,y]$.
 
@user193319: So you don't want a discrete metric space. You want to be able to find points with approximate distance $d(x,y)/n$
 
what if X = [0,1] U [100,101] and f([0,1]) = {0} and f([100,101]) = {1}?
 
Yeah, we need connected, I bet.
 
Ah, interesting!
 
11:18 PM
And then connectivity will guarantee (intermediate value theorem) what I want.
 
Ooh!
So, if we add that $X$ is connected, then the theorem is true?
 
Leaky did a modification of the discrete space I was worrying about.
I don't know, @user193319, but you should try to modify your proof if it is :)
 
@Ted That's true :D
 
Okay. I'll simmer over this for a bit, and come back if I get stuck. This is turning out to be an interesting problem.
 
Yeah, that was a good question, @user193319.
 
11:27 PM
@TedShifrin if I have a smooth isotopy $\psi_t$ of a foliated surface $S$ and a fixed leaf $L$ of the foliation, is it immediate that the function $\ell(t) := \psi_t(L)$ of leaves of the foliation is continuous (and smooth)?
 
I don't even know what that means. What are is the range of your function?
 
The space of leaves of the foliation.
Maybe it's not so well-defined...
 
That leaf space may be even non-Hausdorff ... so you have to be careful
And I certainly don't know what smoothness would mean there.
 
I have a foliation which is effectively foliates a plane horizontally. I have one leaf $L$ fixed by picking a point outside of a region $D$ where I deform the plane. Then I deform the plane with $\psi_t$, in particular, outside of $D$, $\psi_t$ is the identity, so it only truly deforms inside $D$.
After $t$-time during the deformation, my fixed leaf $L$ is deformed so it flows out of $D$ into a different leaf (when $t\neq 0$) than it did before. I want to then discuss the continuity of the selection of this new leaf as $t$ varies.
I am unsure how to best phrase this.
And I don't know if I get a "continuous" selection of this new leaf necessarily from the smoothness of $\psi_t$
 
Sorry. I'm in the middle of working on something else now, so I really can't think about it.
 
11:36 PM
Oh okay, sorry to bug you then
 
Sorry ...
 
No worries!
 
@anakhro: OK, I just read it. Uniqueness of leaves makes something suspicious there. If the isotopy is the identity outside the set, your leaf $L$ stays the same outside the set. So you can't deform to a different leaf $L'$, which will be different from $L$ outside the set.
So something's not right here, or I'm not understanding.
The isotopy is not leaving the foliation invariant.
 
Let me try drawing a picture of my particular scenario
So you fix L, it's the same leaf as L'.
But after this formation within D, it's not connected to the segment L' anymore
 
11:53 PM
Right. So the foliation isn't invariant under the isotopy. So you don't get a map from the leaf space to the leaf space.
 
Yeah, I guess so.
But the idea is I want to show that for each leaf segment $L''$ between $L'$ and $\psi(L)$, there is a time $t$ such that $\psi_t(L) = L''$
kind of like an intermediate value theorem thing.
It's awkward phrasing it because I am unsure of how to phrase it formally
In most geometry papers they would just say "it's obvious that...", at least, that seems to be the consensus on this particular lemma I am trying to formalize.
 
Yeah, you probably want to work in a canonical chart and coordinatize the leaves by a real interval, and make it less abstract.
Left interval ... right interval.
 
Well yeah, that's sort of what I have right now. It's exactly the x-y plane, and then on the right my leaf segments are called $L_s$ corresponding to their height (off of the disk).
So I guess I do some epsilon delta thing in terms of that parameter s?
I will try to formalize an expression like that.
 
So now you're looking at time $t$ flow and that's a smooth function of $t$ and the initial point.
 
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