The Factory Floor

Green

00:24

@Pleiades Agreed.

Well, what tasks need to be done? How can these tasks be grouped together?

Green

00:36

Common tasks will be things like food prep, home defense, child bearing, hunting/gathering and so on.

Which ever gender has physical/mental/emotional adaptations best adapted to those tasks will probably take them.

Pleiades

@Green Honestly I think I was just confusing myself with stuff I’d been working on for too long. I just wrapped up a piano lesson and can’t make sense of what I was trying to ask anymore lol. That’s still a good suggestion though so thank you for that

Green

@Pleiades Fair enough.

Gender roles can be thought of as a system for the division of labor. If you work out what needs to be done, you can clump things by who tends to do them best.

Pleiades

@Green Which I was already doing to some extent. I tend to get pretty wrapped up in how things look in my world, and before my lesson I realized that what people do tends to drive how they dress. After I came back to that note, I couldn't make sense of what I was trying to get at

Green

@James Do you think my spaceship UI question is too broad?

Pleiades

Which one is that? I think I saw it earlier, but I didn't look at it too hard since I was in between classes

Green

00:48

16

Q: Customizable UI for a Spaceship's Systems

User Interface Customization for Spaceship Controls; "In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice, they're totally different." We often find that what we plan for isn't what actually happens. What we think we'll need, we actually don't and need something else. This holds for cam...

Since the primary question is "Should the UI's be customizable, and if not, where shouldn't they be customizable?" it didn't seem to broad to me.

I think Graham's answer is especially good since it shows where these kinds of interfaces are already used in real life now.

Pleiades

@Green I could see where someone might think this question too broad, but at the same time, it's defined well enough that it just skirts the line a bit. o.m. makes a good point too in that safety critical systems would be standardized, and honestly, while this is likely for sci-fi, there are more than a number of situations where people put up with old systems because they work.

Green

@Pleiades Yeah. I have another question in my head about whether it's better to use touchscreens or to use physical buttons and switches.

My answer is that buttons and switches are better since they're older (and therefore more robust) and easier to fix.

Pleiades

@Green There are benefits and drawbacks to both, but I'm usually one to go with the hybridization of two systems and use them where they work best. Charting courses and anything that requires free motion of some kind would probably be best suited to a touchscreen, whereas simple on/off settings or controls that have varying levels of output would probably be better done with buttons and switches.

Green

@Pleiades Yep, I agree.

Unless your spaceship has a fab onboard that can create new touchscreens (along with all the other bits you need) then you'll want to make the components as robust as possible. Geez, the specs on those components are going to be crazy!

Pleiades

Lol yeah. I seem to remember reading somewhere that touchscreen form dead spots from frequent use in certain areas--and that's definitely been my experience with handheld gaming devices and lower-end touchscreen phones--so the less use those get is probably going to be for the better of the ship, honestly.

Green

01:00

@Pleiades You probably won't even want touchscreens. Just super duty LCD or OLED displays with keyboard and touchpad. The keyboard would have old school clicky mechanical switches.

Have each component do one thing and do it really well.

Pleiades

@Green I actually forgot touchpads were a thing, wow

Green

@Pleiades Everything about this ship is going to be bomb-proof or easily fixable. Some stuff can't be fixed (like the reactor core internal lining) but stuff like displays should be fixable quickly.

I want to design a spaceship bridge that incorporates all these lessons of what's old actually works. Neomania will really bite you in the bum when you're two billions km from anywhere and your only working touchscreen gets a deadspot in the exactly the wrong place.

Pleiades

@Green Makes sense. I just have this image of loose buttons being held in a metal bucket for some reason though. Like they'd probably have designated storage drawers or something for extra pieces and parts, but people can be lazy xD

Green

I'd love to get a hold of the design manuals for the 1940's era battleships.

@Pleiades Yeah, exactly.

Pleiades

Not sure where you're located out of, but there's an old WWII ship you can tour off the coast of San Diego. I've got pictures somewhere, but it's a pretty neat tour for I think something like $10?

Found the website: midway.org

Green

01:07

Huh. It might be that this information isn't even written down, and maybe can't be written down.

Or not....flightcrew resource management is a thing for dividing up the duties of what needs to be done on a flight deck.

Pleiades

I think the tour mentioned some of those ships are still active to this day, so it makes sense not to publicize their design. I still feel like there should be like blueprints or something you could get from a library

I'm not sure what level of detail you're really looking for though

Green

@Pleiades That's only a small part of the story. It doesn't explain why they made it that way, only shows examples that they did. The search space for finding a good design is really huge. Knowing why certain designs won over others would be incredibly helpful in narrowing down that search space.

Pleiades

@Green I wouldn't know where to begin finding something like that, honestly. History.SE might be able to dig up something for you, otherwise I personally would make an educated guess and move on.

Green

@Pleiades I think it's probably wrapped up in the brains of the designers. I bet I could meet some naval architects who would be able to offer some insights.

Pleiades

@Green Probably, but lots of knowledgeable people hang out on these ships. You might even get lucky enough to meet one of the designers if they're around, or at the very least a guide could point you in the right direction. There was one guy there who was answering all sorts of questions about the welding and types of metals on the Midway. If nothing else, seek out where these designers hang out and bug them there.

Green

01:17

@Pleiades Good point.

Pleiades

@Green You'll probably still be pretty hard-pressed to find any of the designers of 1940s-era ships who are still around though. An expert on ship design, a historian, or some form of design document are probably going to be your best bets overall.

Green

@Pleiades True. I bet if I started hanging around ship yards, I could probably meet someone who does do the designing. Maybe they wouldn't talk to me because it's classified or something.

Problem is there's no shipyards near me now. Oh well.

Something to stick in the back of my brain and wonder on.

Pleiades

@Green Some details probably are classified even after the ships are decommissioned and either disassembled or converted into museums, but you should be able to get something useful out of the interaction.

Make a vacation out of it, if you really have to. There are worse places to be than the coasts (and MAN there is so much to do in San Diego I'd say go there even if you don't see the Midway; it's just a fantastic city)

Worldbuilding Meta

02:55

0

Q: Help tour includes a potentially confusing user avatar

The section "Improve posts by editing or commenting" of the help tour includes an icon of Rory Alsop, which currently looks similar to Reddit's logo. I don't have a problem with Rory using it on the website, but such a logo in an example post may be confusing for beginners trying to get the hang...

discussion help-center

Shalvenay

hey there @JoeBloggs

@Green -- also, you don't need to look specifically to military stuff, I reckon

Pleiades

05:15

Oh my god what's the name of the thing where people use cardinal direction names but don't necessarily use the cardinal directions themselves. Like they say something's north of them when it's up or above and stuff like that. I cannot for the life of me remember right now

Journeyman Geek

0_0

Pleiades

There's like a very specific name for this and a corresponding Wikipedia article too. AGH

Mr.J

07:27

Hello! anybody here?

Mr.J

07:45

See Nobody here...

Ajnatorix Zersolar

@Mr.J hey

dot_Sp0T

08:33

@Green dang I missed out on your question

Green

11:37

@dot_Sp0T not too late to answer.

@Shalvenay no, I don't need military necessarily. It's just that the military has the most practice with coping with damage and degraded system performance.

Secret

11:58

[Random]

A "world" reachable only via "zooming"

Consider a park with the following objects on the floor:

An apple, a red balloon, a stop sign, a rose

A user with a certain power, when staring at these objects and then think in a certain way, will suddenly found the visual field get zoomed away from the objects and found themself in a red void

The Observable Universe (accurately scaled zoom out from Earth)

►

For an idea on how the "zooming out" will look like subjectively

Now, the idea that is currently WIP is the "realm of towers" which can only be reached when sufficient number of phenomenon and objects that give a towering feeling both figuratively and literally are concentrated in a small region (say a park) and then the "zooming out" is performed

Future Historian

13:11

So.....

Question: Roswell being ETs for real in an alternate timeline = what happens to NASA?

Is there no reason to make a civilian space agency in the States, given the fact we found ETs?

@AndyD273? Question: how does this alternate NASA look like?

If it is even formed?

After all: you have the three US military programs prior to the creation of NASA (one of them was the Explorer Program before it was gutted and then restored after the Soviets out-spaced the Americans), and with the addition of extraterrestrial technology......

And the fact that we really DID find ETs, would that not butterfly away NASA as we know it?

In this alternate timeline, that is.

AndyD273

I guess it makes sense that a lot of it would be handled by the military. But there might still be a reason to keep Nasa for science and commercial launches that the military might not want to deal with.

So you might have a joint agency with both a civilian side and a military side

Future Historian

So, NASA still exists.....

It is just a civilian AND military agency.

Right?

AndyD273

It makes sense to me. Do they specifically know that the ETs are hostile at that point?

Future Historian

Not yet.

But better safe than sorry, right?

AndyD273

13:26

Sure, then scientific research is going to be as important as military development, trying to find out what all is out there, and where it might be coming from

If they already know that the ETs are hostile, then they might cut back on the science budget and push it all into military.

James

13:59

@Green Nope, I wouldn't have answered it if I thought that.

My hunch is people are getting too into the weeds instead of approaching it from a point of abstraction.

James

14:16

Annual online compliance training is ...terrible.

The infosec bits are clearly written for non-IT old people.

Green

@James I think that's a common weakness in the questions I ask. They tend to be highly abstract.

@James Oh hey, I had to take some of that too. The answer to almost any question was "Report this to IT Security and they'll handle it."

Future Historian

14:46

Well, that question was a total bust.

:(

@AndyD273? Any ideas on how to rephrase the question to something along the lines of Worldbuilding SE's rules?

AndyD273

?

Future Historian

0

Q: What would an alternate NASA focus on if we did find extraterrestrial objects at Roswell, assuming it even exists in this timeline?

So, in the Visitor series, I pointed out that Earth would get attacked by an extraterrestrial species known as the Xwlnnr, and I just noticed something. In this setting, the earliest point of divergence from our timeline is the 1947 Roswell UFO Incident. And although Project: Mogul is still there...

aliens alternate-history spaceships alternate-reality

I just edited it.

So....what do I do?

Or is there no way to save this question?

AndyD273

15:15

@FutureHistorian Talk it over with MichaelK to start, see if you can see what's wrong from their perspective

Future Historian

Fair enough.

AndyD273

He does have a point; The problem with strict hard science approach, is that it completely shuts the door on anything that is fantastical/otherworldly/not yet discovered. It assumes that we know everything there is to know, which is of course crazy.

Anonymous

Pop quiz! Anyone can answer: What's your favorite (1) question you've posted and (2) question you've seen (posted by someone else)?

(1) for me is This question I asked and then answered as a community wiki using everyone's comments/ideas

and (2) is a tie between the famous Cthulu Sysadmins/Facebook question and the Evil Moderator

Future Historian

@AndyD273. So is constant progress.

Besides, if any interstellar societies had FTL, Earth would have been colonised by now.

Bellerophon

@FutureHistorian Not necessarily. It is probable but not certain.

Future Historian

15:22

That is kind of the thing.

If FTL was possible, HOW IS EARTH NOT AN EXTRATERRESTRIAL COLONY ALREADY?

Bellerophon

@FutureHistorian No one has managed to make it yet or all the races that have made it don't feel like colonising Earth.

Future Historian

That assumes that ALL do it.

It takes ONE species to ruin everything.

Look. Not every species is going to be obliterated instantly, nor is every species going to NOT colonise the Galaxy.

Bellerophon

No. Nor will all species want to colonise the galaxy.

Future Historian

True.

Bellerophon

As long as the only creatures with FTL are those who won't, or can't, conquer other planets Earth won't be a colony of them.

AndyD273

15:35

Question I've posted:

11

Q: What would happen if the black hole at the center of a galaxy was removed?

Say you have a galaxy, possibly ours, with a central black hole. In an instant the black hole falls through a plot hole and vanishes. What happens to the rest of the galaxy? Does everything keep on like nothing happened? Does it slowly unravel? Does it quickly unravel? Something else? Why this...

science-based gravity black-holes

Question I've seen: Much harder. I've seen so many questions. Maybe this one

35

Q: What would be best way to re-melt Mars' mantle and core to revive its magnetosphere

Missing magnetosphere on Mars keeps popping up. Most likely caused by Mars core being cold, mantle not bubbly enough. Mars mantle is dormant, core does not move. What would be good way to get it going? So future martians don't have to spend all the time deep under surface in the tunnels. My wil...

science-based planets physics

Future Historian

>:(

Well, now this is getting frustrating.

Honestly, if an FTL civilisation existed AND was willing to colonise the Galaxy, then they WILL do it.

AndyD273

@FutureHistorian You can have FTL be an impossibility. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying it's ok to have something that science can't explain.

2

Future Historian

Hence why FTL travel and communications make the Fermi Paradox WORSE.

@AndyD273. So, space magic?

scoffs What is this, science fantasy?

AndyD273

"Magic is only science we don't understand yet" and all that.

3

Future Historian

True, but....again. That would make it too easy for them to win.

AndyD273

15:38

And you can actually get pretty far just by extrapolating theoretical physics

Future Historian

Plus, if we have shields and other handwavy gizmos, why are there not other applications we have for them?

Bellerophon

@FutureHistorian Yes. But that doesn't mean that if FTL exists humans have been colonised.

Future Historian

Actually.....

There would BE no humans, since Earth would have been colonised LONG before humans had emerged.

@AndyD273? So, are nanofactories theoretically possible?

AndyD273

It's all up to you. Honestly I don't give two figs if you do or don't include any kind of future tech. But every time someone has said that we're at a plateau, they've been laughably wrong.

Future Historian

That is true.

But I get the feeling that it is a bit different this time.

At least for us meatbaggy humans.

James

15:41

@Green Are people really dumb enough to share company information/data via social media?

I mean...I am pretty sure I know the answer but I am hoping I am wrong.

Future Historian

Then again, when you have post-Singularity beings......

That changes a bit.

@AndyD273. So if the Visitors have nanofactories....we are still doomed?

AndyD273

You asked my opinion, so I gave it. You can use it, or not, at your discretion, and I won't be happy or sad whichever you choose. The road of science is littered with the graves of people that have said that there is nothing left to learn. There is so much about our planet that we have little to no understanding of. There are theoretical particles that we haven't even thought of ways to prove/disprove. Heck, we recently discovered the Higgs, and who knows what that will lead to down the road.

Future Historian

True.

AndyD273

@FutureHistorian That is a silly question. From your perspective, I think you mean, are we doomed, or more doomed? Now if we got ahold of them, then we might be less doomed. BUT IT'S YOUR STORY. THAT'S KIND OF YOUR JOB TO ANSWER.

Bellerophon

@FutureHistorian Might have been, might not have been.

Future Historian

15:47

Well, plan B.

@Bellerophon. I just remembered.

FTL = time travel.

So, either sacrifice FTL entirely or break causality somehow and make a time travel mess.

AndyD273

And IF YOU WANT TO USE IT (but don't have to) there is real theoretical physics to get are the FTL barrier, namely an Einstein Rosen Bridge between fixed points.

FTL does not = time travel

or, it doesn't have to

Future Historian

Alcubierre metric kind of....

Does have causality-breaking side effect.

AndyD273

If I FTL to alpha centauri, and then FTL back, I'll still arrive after I left, not before

Future Historian

Not really.

"Beware: in relativity, any method to travel faster than light can in principle be used to travel back in time (a time machine)." - Miguel Alcubierre

Key word: ANY.

Including wormholes.

Sorry, Star Trek.

AndyD273

Key phrase: can in principle

Future Historian

15:53

"
Wormholes connect two points in spacetime, which means that they would in principle allow travel in time, as well as in space. In 1988, Morris, Thorne and Yurtsever worked out explicitly how to convert a wormhole traversing space into one traversing time by accelerating one of its two mouths.[18] However, according to general relativity, it would not be possible to use a wormhole to travel back to a time earlier than when the wormhole was first converted into a time 'machine'. On the other hand, until this time it could not have been noticed or have been used.[24]:504" - Wikipedia article…

So, yes. It basically means a theoretical time machine.

Oops.

Wait.

Hold on.

Wait a minute.

@AndyD273? Quantum gravity. Sounds familiar to you?

AndyD273

Also, if you travel through a wormhole where the other end is in the past, and then travel back through the same wormhole, you'd exit the original end after the point you left, not before.

@FutureHistorian I know of it

So, since it's your story, just don't allow that to happen

Future Historian

Agreed.

Either wormholes are too tiny and non-traversable to be useful OR it is possible, just not PRACTICAL.

As in: AT ALL.

AndyD273

Or don't allow FTL at all. Because once again, I don't care either way. I have no stake in it.

Future Historian

True.

Besides, I would rather have no time travelling side effects.

AndyD273

Thats fine

Future Historian

15:59

Wait.

AndyD273

It's your story, you tell it the way you want to

Future Historian

That would be a great time travel story.

Alcubierre metric is possible, but then the first spacecraft to achieve that is sent back in time somehow.

(NOTE: That is just a concept, not Visitor series related).

So.....

I think I know the problem.

With theoretical physics, you have two kinds of wormholes that are viable.

Morris-Thorne Wormholes and Visser Wormholes.

And that is just the kind you can traverse.

Then there is the classical Einstein-Rosen Bridge, which WILL kill you if you travel through it.

And then there is the Alcubierre metric, which requires anywhere from -700 kg worth of negative mass to -10^64 kg worth of the stuff.....

Aka: depending on who has the more accurate research paper, either wormholes are expensive, FTL is, although possible, VERY impractical, or just impossible because they all require negative mass.

And unfortunately.....

No negative mass yet.

And remember that time when the media went on a frenzy after we "found" negative mass?

About that....it is not the kind of negative mass we need for an Alcubierre metric or wormhole.

Future Historian

16:16

@Bellerophon? Sorry about the pinging, but....I want to ask. FTL is not possible as far as we know, right? And if it is, it is probably very impractical short of a Kardashev Type III civilisation.

Right?

And I mean because of the fact you would need 100 BILLION stars' worth of negative mass for the Morris-Thorne wormhole.

Then again, Visser's version is 1 Jupiter's worth.

But producing even a few kg of negative mass could mean using up A LOT of energy.

Correction: -kg since it is negative mass, not regular mass.

AndyD273

So here's a question. Time dilation increases when you get closer to something massive, and it increases when you travel faster. So by that logic, the further you are away from something massive, and the slower that you travel, the less your dilation. So that means that somewhere, some how, there must be a point of least dilation...

Bellerophon

Which would be what, a perfectly stationery point somewhere in between two galaxies.

AndyD273

@Bellerophon That's what I'm thinking

Bellerophon

@FutureHistorian Not as far as we know.

Future Historian

Exactly.

And if it is possible, using theoretical physics.

It is still impractical short of a Kardashev Type III civilisation.

AndyD273

16:22

Since the universal expansion is moving the galaxies away from each other, you could possibly find a place in between three galaxy clusters where they are moving away from you at the same rate

Future Historian

And the Xwlnnr are already a cluster of civilisations, which effectively means that in reality, a K3.0 "civilisation" would just be a bunch of Kardashev Type II civilisations all over the Galaxy.

And none of them would be able to unify, and therefore, such a project would be impractical.

AndyD273

I wonder what least dilation would look like. Where everything in the universe is experiencing time faster than you are.

Or is that the other way around

Future Historian

And that is simply because of three things:

1. Sheer distance.

2. 100 billion stars' worth of negative mass to create a Morris-Thorne Wormhole requires a LOT of coordination, which none of the Xwlnnr civilisations would have or be willing to do.

3. The first issue should have made the Xwlnnr not a single species but an entire genus of species derived from a common ancestor and they probably would be extraterrestrials to each other. That being said, it would actually make any FTL efforts impossible by sheer impracticality.

Even a K3.0 civilisation would be unable to make a Morris-Thorne Wormhole simply because at that point, it is a bunch of K2.X civilisations that have evolved into separate species from a common ancestor.

And none of them would be able or willing to cooperate for such a ridiculously expensive effort that will yield very little gain, even though that is the kind of thing I would LIKE to see.

Bellerophon

@AndyD273 You wouldn't notice at a local level.

Future Historian

Why do you think NASA's funding went from 4% of the US federal budget to 0.8% of it after the Space Race?

This is worse than even that.

It would make the spending on the Apollo program look like buying a chocolate bar in a candy shop.

And the sheer distance means that such an effort would take MILLENNIA just to get the basics up.

Good luck trying to finish project after a few million years.

Green

16:32

@James The world is very full of people and 50% of people are below average intelligence. Every company therefore will hire about 50% below average people to do their work.

Future Historian

Anyway......

That should make things interesting.

James

@Green Thank you sooooo much for breaking my little hopeful bubble.

Future Historian

FTL is possible, but it is just too impractical to be useful.

Green

@James No MERCY!!!!

Future Historian

Or worth the risk.

Green

16:33

in my best Commissar voice

Future Historian

@James? Do you think real world FTL travel is possible, but not exactly practical or worth the risk?

James

@FutureHistorian No.

@Green I jumped into Warframe last night and massacred aliens.

...that game would be way better with voice chat.

Future Historian

So......not very possible even with physics?

I blame Andy for this.

Green

@James I applied resin to my dragon mask in prep for painting.

James

@Green ooooh dragon-y

@FutureHistorian No even sort of possible at all based on what we know of physics today.

Future Historian

16:36

Well, I am assuming current theoretical models may have some validity.

James

As much as I like blaming @AndyD273 for things I think you can blame this one on physics.

Future Historian

Despite the fact they are dubious AT BEST.

I am not saying FTL is possible.

I am saying that even if it was possible, it is just not practical to be worth it.

James

Lunch time.

Bye

:D

Future Historian

Goodbye, then.

o7

@James. Truth be told, that is what I tried to tell Andy. The thing is...for a hard SF setting...having FTL kind of...breaks things, right?

Secret

Esdetoft Nosoberti Karadarev

Future Historian

16:40

Sorry if you are...well, gone.

Just reply when you come back.

Alright?

:P

Secret

Casterakaov Lucidine yituburaov

Locomoderev Dies Not Exist Souffurev

Bellerophon

@Secret what language are the first two? I thought I could pick out most languages that used Latin alphabets but that one has me stumped.

Secret

Uh... I am just saying gibberish that tries to act like russian

clearly I don't know how to say russian or to immite it

Future Historian

I actually can speak a bit of Russian.

I still have to rely on Google Translate though, tovarisch.

AndyD273

@Bellerophon Well, right, because even at high dilation you don't really notice on a local level. I just mean if you could set up the largest telescope ever, would it look like everything in the distant galaxies was moving in slow motion/frozen?

@James I don't know I like to think that the physics glass is half full

Green

16:52

@AndyD273 We could make it a philosophy glass and say it's always full of something, even if that something is 'nothing'.

Secret

Nothingness can exist, but it depends on which ontology is being used

AndyD273

@FutureHistorian Once again, I don't care how you use any kind of science. But a story set several decades in the future where absolutely no breakthroughs have happened seems the least realistic future. Especially since in the last couple years we've confirmed the Higgs and gravity waves. If someone figured out how to look for a graviton then that would be huge. Tachyons would be even bigger. And all it will take is one person who gets hit in the head by a spherical apple in a vacuum and figure it out

Bellerophon

17:04

@AndyD273 I thought tachyons were pretty small.

AndyD273

@Bellerophon They probably don't exist, but if the theory is right then they a particle that can't travel slower than the speed of light. Maybe they are the negative mass particles, or what make up dark energy

Oh, I just got that. Well played

AndyD273

17:20

@Anonymous I think this may be my favorite of my answers though:

5

A: Dragon vs Antiaircraft Artillery

First, since approach by air wasn't successful the last time, I'd be cautious and approach by ground. A lot of people think of a dragon flying high above, and forget that we can walk, or hold our legs in close and slither like a snake. On my first foray into the camp I got a pretty good look a...

Green

@AndyD273 That's one question that makes me nervous since it asks about the actions of a single "person". As is, I'd VTC as off-topic.

AndyD273

@Green Don't care, still my favorite.

Green

@AndyD273 Hah! Fair enough.

AndyD273

And really, it's written as if it was the actions of a single person, BUT it could be extrapolated as strategy for any random dragon

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