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6:44 AM
@FaheemMitha Huh, you call my cat a rat?! :-)
 
@Kusalananda You've now changed the picture. That's cheating.
 
 
6 hours later…
12:42 PM
Is there any way to view who has voted to close before you cast your own vote?
 
@Jesse_b I have a feeling it's deliberately difficult to find that out. Your vote should ideally not depend who else voted. I'm actually a bit surprised that one can see how many has voted what on questions (or answers).
 
@Kusalananda You can see that. If you click on close it will show a number next to each reason for the amount voted.
If you vote to close you can hit the back button and see exactly who has voted close or leave open though, I wonder if that is a bug :p
oh duh shame on my response, I read your response wrong lol
first thing in the morning here >.>
I guess it would be abused though (the ability to see who has voted what), but I think it could also be very helpful. There are some questions I am on the fence about and seeing how someone else who's opinion I trust (Like you) voted would sway me one way or another. Without that I end up skipping some.
 
12:57 PM
I take the compliment, but still, voting should ideally not be conscious group behaviour thing (only conscious) .
That regular expression though... 2000 words, all OR-ed together, on the command line. Good effort there, I'd say.
 
@Kusalananda Which regex?
@terdon: I thought you don't need quotes on the right side of a variable assignment :p
 
@Jesse_b oh, duh! You're quite right!
 
I normally do anyway >.> I just can't find a good balance to keep the "Well actually..." commentators off my back :p
 
@Jesse_b :-)
As long as it's consistent within one piece of code, I won't comment on that.
 
1:07 PM
@Kusalananda Holy crap!
and he used a quote so it would be so hard to edit into a codeblock. At that point though I feel it completely defeats the purpose of regex. Just matching 2000 words literally
 
@Jesse_b I love the fact that they answered their own question with "I solved it", and then goes on to list the whole regex again (I shortened it).
My shell session literally froze and had to be killed when I tried to paste it into cat >file...
 
DoS regex
 
@Kusalananda Really?
That seems odd.
I've "cat"ted much longer things than that over the years.
 
Well, there might well be a limitation on the lengths of lines that you can paste into PuTTY. (remember, I'm on Windows 10 working in PuTTY).
 
Ah, yes, sorry keep forgetting.
 
1:14 PM
Putty also is terrible at line feed(probably not the right term) speeds. If you try to paste too much text at once it will often skip characters or whole lines and garble what you are trying to paste
 
... and killing the shell session corrupted my $HISTFILE, which I'm a bit miffed about now...
 
@Kusalananda I don't know if it works on windows 10 but you can get a working hyperterminal binary for windows 7
Also supposedly powershell supports ssh natively now so that is probably the best way to go.
 
Ah, I didn't even consider that. I'll give the Linux environment on Windows 10 a go (only as a terminal to my OpenBSD system though, it's weird running Unix stuff on Windows)
 
@Kusalananda Yea windows in general is weird :p I only keep it around for gaming now. I don't know what I'm going to do when they drop support for windows 7 and I have to use windows 10 though :(
 
The system as such seems stable enough. I've given up trying to arrange any icons on the desktop though as their placements regularly is reset.
I'm only using it for Chrome and to access my Unix work.
 
1:28 PM
Powershell pretty nice though. I think it's just as powerful as python
 
I used to run VirtualBox machines on this laptop, but I bought a dedicated machine for Unix.
@Jesse_b Never used it (apart from now when I run bash to run ssh in it).
 
 
2 hours later…
3:07 PM
Some of the people at work refuse to use the tools I make and it is super frustrating :-(
They also seem very resistant to the idea of me giving a class "death by powerpoint" yet many of them don't even know what a variable is and work in a unix only environment
/rant
 
4:13 PM
@Jesse_b "death by powerpoint"?
 
@FaheemMitha It's a phrase people use to talk about how boring powerpoint presentations can be
I think that sort of attitude is the same attitude that causes them to never have read any technical manuals too though
It's only boring if you really have no interest in learning
 
4:40 PM
@Jesse_b well, and a lot depends on how good the presenter is. Some people are much better at giving an engaging presentation.
 
@derobert True and I'm sure I'm not great but they haven't given the opportunity to prove one way or another ;-). Also I just want them to know some basic damn things so they stop screwing things up
 
@Jesse_b ... and most people (at least older ones) only has interest in learning things relevant to what they need to be doing. The task as a teacher then becomes to make it relevant.
 
@Kusalananda I think learning the basics of the shell they use on a daily basis is pretty relevant
 
@Jesse_b Guess you've got to convince the boss, then. Should be fairly easy to sell from improved productivity, reduced errors, etc.
 
They might see it as a nuisance.
 
4:43 PM
@derobert He's already sold. I will be giving the class whether they like it or not but they don't like it so they aren't likely to listen
 
Try fishing for a common problematic task and show how that may be solved more efficiently.
 
At least that means you'll get the chance to be interesting for the first five minutes or so...
 
Like with that regex from earlier today :-)
 
@Kusalananda I have been trying. I made a toolkit that automates a bunch of stuff we do on a daily basis and only a few people are using it (All of which tell me how much it helps them) but the others haven't even tried using it
 
@Jesse_b Ah. Habits.
Yeah, it's a hard nut to crack.
 
4:47 PM
We have some SOPs that contain code snippets with variables in them and they specifically instruct you to change the variable and then run the code. I have watched some of these people just copy and paste the code snippet without changing variables so many times
To me that is just a dangerous person that needs some level of instruction before being given root access :-/
 
Yeah....
And maybe fix your code snippets to e.g., error out if someone forgot to change the variables. Or prompt.
 
@derobert Good idea. I haven't written most of them though. A lot of them are from senior engineers
 
Changing variables up top is the nice lazy way to do it. But there ought to be an error check, even if they don't go for the less lazy proper UI.
Because even normally competent people make mistakes.
 
I have tried to make my scripts as dummy proof as possible but I know that is just from my perspective and I believe the writers perspective is almost always different from the user's experience :p
 
And it's well known that when you succeed in making something idiot-proof, the universe invents a better idiot.
3
(And its #@(!# embarrassing when the better idiot who breaks my idiot-proof script turns out to be me, 6 months later...)
 
4:55 PM
:-) Well it's probably for the best because then you are the first to see the bug and can fix it
 
Or restore the backup, depending on how good a job the universe did in improving the idiot :-(
 
Have you heard about the latest npm bug? Apparently it randomly modifies a bunch of file permissions when you install it
 
Yeah, heard about that. I think a lot of the new-ish programming stuff has a distinct lack of sysadmin experience.
A lot of those are great to do new development work on, but a nightmare to deploy & support.
 
I guess a lot of people like to play hardcore mode too. I've heard quite a few people ruined productions servers by installing it. Not testing first
 
Yeah. And were running it as root, which AFAIK isn't recommended.
But I've got to say, there are servers that I happily install Debian security & stable updates w/o first testing...
 
5:02 PM
Yea but I see a lot of things done in hardcore mode. I know a lot of people, that I would consider to be very talented engineers, that basically only use rm -rf. No matter what they are deleting...
Just hit it with a hammer and hit it hard
 
I guess they learned it as the magic "delete it and don't bug me".
 
Yea which is fine, I do it a lot on the command line too. But I see it in scripts
 
Possibly someone made them deal with the alias rm='rm -i' fun
 
I go into my tmp dir and rm -rf ./* almost every day
 
@Jesse_b Depending on the script, I'd be less worried about it there... e.g., each time you type it, there is a chance of a typo. But a script doesn't get retyped, so no new typos.
@Jesse_b !!!
Err... tmpreaper? Or systemd-tmpfiles?
 
5:06 PM
I keep a dir at ~/tmp for testing various text processing things, or various other things. I never put anything important in there that isn't simply a copy
I hate when it gets cluttered
 
oh, I thought you meant /tmp, not ~/tmp
 
I worry about it in scripts though because it's almost always rm -rf "$f" or sometimes even: rm -rf $f :-(
 
The -r is weird for a file. For a tempdir (e.g., mktemp -d) that gets a lot of files, though, it can be much easier than tracking and rm'ing each one, then rmdir.
 
@derobert Yea that is why it's troublesome to me too. It's just become habit for some people to use -r but I think it should only be used when you know it needs to be used
 
unix.stackexchange.com/questions/426734/… ← possibly someone who uses -Rf without even knowing it... (though the relocation error sounds like something else entirely happened)
 
5:14 PM
maybe he has: alias rm='rm -dfPr'
 
what is P ?
 
Overwrite regular files before deleting them. Files are overwritten three
times, first with the byte pattern 0xff, then 0x00, and then 0xff again, before
they are deleted.
 
Hmmm, does not seem to be an option my rm has.
 
That's on my mac, so bsd rm
 
Wow, a bit of bloat that isn't in GNU utils. I'm surprised there is any they haven't grabbed....
 
5:24 PM
Now, now, be gnice.
 
@terdon Now, I'm curious, how does gnice turn into a recursive acronym?
:-D
 
gnice's not idiosyncratically cruel elderlings?
 
Even OpenBSD rm has -P :-)
 
I don't really have a dog in the fight of gnu vs non gnu but I do wish things would just have some sort of standardization already
 
@Kusalananda Is it the default there?
 
5:29 PM
darn (li|u)n(?(?<!lin)i|u)x users can't agree on anything though
 
@Jesse_b That's not true. We all agree Windows sucks.
Or at least that we're glad we're not using it.
 
@derobert @Kusalananda and I use it :-P
 
Well, there goes the neighborhood! (Just kidding.)
 
I don't think I can play grand theft auto on any linux distribution yet :-P
 
Sure, you keep around a copy of Windows to play games, but that doesn't mean you have to like it.
 
5:38 PM
Yea, I have installed linux on all of my laptops
I almost got my wife using it. Her desktop CPU fried and I set her up with a centos machine I had with KDE desktop and she said she really liked it but I got her a new CPU and she's using windows again
 
Well, almost then...
 
to be fair the centos machine has a single core pentium 4 processor so it's not exactly a fast PC
 
No, definitely not. And yet she still liked it, says something good about KDE.
 
@derobert No, there's no such default.
 
@derobert, I disagree. Windows is just fine as a gaming platform etc.
 
5:47 PM
@Kusalananda, I tried what you suggested, and I receveid the following erro: "Failed to execute child process "alias" (No such file or directory)"
 
(oh, someone already disagreed, never mind.)
 
@ilkkachu I'm loling
 
@SaclyrBarlonium Could you remind me what that was about please? And what I suggested where?
 
Well, I tried to find something all of us agreed on. I guess chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/43077620#43077620 has been proved correct.
 
disagreements are what make the open source community so great though I think
 
5:48 PM
@Jesse_b No they're not!
:P
 
:43047081
 
Wait, can we all at least agree we don't like Windows ME? I don't think even Windows fans liked ME.
 
I'm laughing at my monitor and my wife thinks I'm crazy
 
Weird, it doesn't shows as a link
 
yea windows ME was trash. Windows 3.1 was a pretty nice operating system though
 
5:49 PM
You need to paste the full link to get it to one-box...
 
@Kusalananda <-- this sugestion
 
yesterday, by Kusalananda
@SaclyrBarlonium If the command to start idle is idle, you could set up an alias for starting it in the shell, like alias idle='cd my_directory && command idle' (command is a built-in command that ensures that you won't call an alias or function from within the alias).
That's https://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/43047081#43047081
 
Thanks you @derobert
 
You can get the link from the drop-down to the left of the message, it's the permalink
 
@SaclyrBarlonium Ah. I was suggesting setting up an alias for idle in the shell. That would only work for starting idle from within the shell. It will not work as a desktop shortcut.
 
5:51 PM
Ok, thanks.
Oh
Ok.
Thanks
 
@SaclyrBarlonium For the desktop shortcut thing, I have absolutely no clue.
 
I'm still researching about this. I just can't find any documentation about this. :S
 
What you basically want is a desktop shortcut that changes the working directory and executes a utility.
Ah, one way to do that would be the command sh -c 'cd somefolder && idle'
 
Yes, because that utility, idle in this case, uses the $HOME directoty as default.
I will try. Wait a second please.
 
Otherwise, I can't really suggest anything constructive I'm afraid.
 
5:54 PM
IT WORKS!!
:D
Thanks
 
:-)
 
@SaclyrBarlonium standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest ... that should be the documentation
So you should be able to set Path=
 
Thank you @derobert, I will see it later.
 
6:39 PM
Yay, retro!
1
Q: Cannot Mount Floppy Drive

dor_ saxsince I got my Floppy Drive to be found by the system, I trouble with mounting it! Some specs: Ubuntu Server 16.04 LTS, EIDE-Connected FDD, installed packages for this subject: udisk2and fdutils I also got the assumed entries in fstab 80-udisks2.rules , the floppy module is loaded and I...

I used to know how to do this...
 
Don't copy that floppy >.>
 
6:55 PM
@terdon I've summoned all the knowledge I can remember from 20 years ago and posted an answer.
 
I further isolated my main problem with working Windows-Ubuntu. I don't publish a question here as it's off-scope, but now some people might be able to help better:
0
Q: Copy-paste into Putty results in dots instead tabulations

user9303970I use Windows 10 and SSHing into a remote Ubuntu 16.04 machine with Putty. I copy pasted the following code from my personal GitHub account into the Putty session: cat <<-EOF >> "$HOME"/.bashrc export s_a="/etc/nginx/sites-available" export s_e="/etc/nginx/sites-enabled" export drt=...

 
and windows!
rabble rabble rabble
 
I'm not sure if Server Fault has changed, but do they now accept questions like that? They used to close everything as not-a-professional-sysadmin
 
It's not a problem with the server itself so it's not the server's fault, but it's closer in context than stackoverflow. Superuser seems to me too general.
I usually wouldn't decide for others what's "professional" in their mind.
 
7:01 PM
That's what Server Fault used to do, but I haven't paid attention to that site for a while, so maybe it's changed.
 
7:38 PM
@derobert It hasn't. If you are not administering a professional system, you shouldn't ask on Server Fault. The right place for that question is Super User.
@derobert Ah, I thought that would be the issue. Cool.
 
@terdon Who knew that people were still using floppies!
 
8:27 PM
I know I am jinxing myself and it is likely a certainty that it will eventually happen to me but I still have not gotten comfortable with any command that deletes things. With find I would run the command without delete twice and validate the files I'm deleting manually. Then I would type out the command, get up and walk away for a minute, come back and double check the command. That sort of stuff still makes me nervous lol
 
 
1 hour later…
9:40 PM
@Jesse_b find … -delete is definitely a scary command
A lot of the file-manipulation commands are, honestly. E.g., mv by default will overwrite.
And e.g., mv * /some/dir is fun if you accidentally hit enter before typing the final argument... at least if there are two files.
 
@derobert I typed ~ and Return in the wrong order when typing rm *~ to clean up my big third-year project at university, since then I’ve kept meticulous backups (with regular restore checks)
 
ouch
Its too bad there isn't a generic undo command. That'd be awesome. But... that'd be hard to implement!
 
@derobert logging file systems get you most of the way there
but they’re not all that popular for some reason
(NILFS2 and the like)
 
I suppose so. But I don't think there are any for Linux. At least not any that are really usable..
 
apt install nilfs-tools ;-)
 
9:51 PM
I thought that was only for raw flash devices? am I mistaken?
 
@derobert no, that’s JFFS2 — NILFS2 works fine everywhere
 
nilfs.sourceforge.io/en/current_status.html todo list looks a little disturbing... "fsck" is apparently todo :-(
 
@derobert heh, that could indeed put people off
 
@StephenKitt indeed surprising how little anyone notices it, if it actually works... I doubt you could run rootfs off it well... but important data...
(I mean, lack of xattr and ACL would seem to doom rootfs)
 
10:07 PM
@derobert yeah, and not much point in a logging FS there anyway
I used to run /home on it, but I forget why I stopped
 
 
2 hours later…
11:47 PM
@Kusalananda: do your cats like treats?
 

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