The h Bar - 2018-01-29 (page 2 of 4)

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3:00 PM

You can try laser triggered fusion reaction

Oh wait

arxiv.org/pdf/physics/0510071.pdf

there's a relevant paper

It discusses antimatter catalyzed fusion

"As a matter of fact, antimatter is seriously considered as a potential energy source for a new generation of nuclear explosives since at least the end of the 1940s, especially by Edward Teller and collaborators in the United States"

"As 1 microgram is sufficient to trigger one thermonuclear weapon, such a facility will only be a factor 365 away from the implicit goal that the US and Soviet governments set forth in the 1940s, namely to produce enough material for making one atomic bomb every day!"

What were they planning to do with one nuke per day

oof

the cold war mindset of building as many nukes as possible is hard for me to understand

Future Historian

So, could the idea work?

Or epic fail?

I think this was before the idea of nuclear winter

Well, see the paper

Pretty much the same concerns are raised

Future Historian

Oh oh........

@Slereah probably

3:06 PM

the problem of production and containment

Future Historian

Wait.

This is from 2008.

though that in turn raises the question of why the hell we still have as many nukes as we do

since we definitely know about nuclear winter now

Future Historian

Wait.

Anonymous

@Semiclassical Makes people feel safe I guess.

Some people, at any rate.

Future Historian

3:07 PM

@Slereah. I just remembered: this is NOT manufactured by humans....

At all.

The design of these warheads is.........extraterrestrial in origin so to speak.

At least in-setting.

well you have the usual science fiction choice

Future Historian

So, does this mean I can have a K1.25 extraterrestrial civilisation PLAUSIBLY make these warheads?

Either you gamble on this idea being possible in the future or you don't

Future Historian

Because I am trying to go for hard science.

We can't predict technological development so there's that

If you want more details look up the bibliography and check up some of those papers

Future Historian

3:11 PM

Besides, this is an extraterrestrial antimatter-catalysed pure fusion warhead.

Aka: NOT human.

well that doesn't change the problem much

Future Historian

And we never get to make those since......well, they exterminate us.

Technology doesn't change in space

My personal science fiction choice would be to start with a typical sci-fi setting (with the lack of hard science thereof) and then have it ultimately be revealed that this setting is just a simulation

Future Historian

True.

Hmmmmmmmmm.

3:12 PM

because that's about the only way I can actually see such scenarios happening

what are we doing

Future Historian

has an idea

How nuclear bombs are triggered isn't terribly important in the end, really

are we writing a science fiction

Even pure fusion bombs emit radiations anyway

Future Historian

3:12 PM

Is there a possibility that we could make anything better than neodymium magnets to contain antimatter?

although I think it produces shorter lived isotopes

Future Historian

@BalarkaSen. HARD science fiction to be specific.

@Slereah do you have Yvonne yet?

@Slereah Interestingly, one of the people who worked on that problem was Bryce DeWitt

@0celo7 I'm not a millionaire

Future Historian

3:13 PM

As in: some synthetic material that we have yet to make in the lab?

But still possible for our periodic table?

@FutureHistorian easy. write a good but incoherent story and copy paste nlab in various places

Future Historian

Not a good idea.

hard mathematical science fiction at your desk

@BalarkaSen Category bomb?

Future Historian

O_O

3:14 PM

and to do the numerics for that, he had to learn about the Lagrangian formulation of fluid dynamics...which he ended up (about 20 years later I think?) applying to one of the first instances of computational/numerical GR

Future Historian

I want to have a coherent story supported by actual science.

so that's a neat little bit of history

Let $I$ be the category of innocent women and children

Future Historian

So...........

@Future sounds like garbage story then

3:14 PM

The nuclear bomb functor is an automorphism on $I$

Future Historian

What?

@Slereah not just the manifolds but the womenfolds and childrenfolds too

Future Historian

@BalarkaSen? How is that garbage?

@0celo7 heheheh

i only read postmodern incoherent novels

everything else is trash

i send them to the garbagio

3:15 PM

@Slereah I got Christodoulou and Klainerman for free

hardcover

nice

Future Historian

Besides, I am only trying to depict how an extraterrestrial invasion of Earth would REALISTICALLY go, assuming they did not want to exterminate us (at first).

although I thought Christodoulou was garbage

going to pick up my stack of books today

@Slereah I have 3 Christo books now

if they did not want to exterminate us using nukes is a bit much

Future Historian

3:16 PM

Besides, I am combining realism, cosmic horror and actual science (the last one to support the other two).

why not just conventional explosives

Future Historian

@Slereah. Read the parenthesis.

well then why not just blasting us

back to the stone age

Future Historian

They do.........

you might want to read that paper by the way

Anonymous

3:17 PM

@FutureHistorian Ok, but how do you expect us to help?

lots of details on future fusion bomb designs

I find sci-fi settings pretty hard to take seriously

Future Historian

After 10 years of guerrilla war and as a means to tell a rival faction of the same species the big old [censored] you.

Anonymous

Extraterrestrial invasion and hard science don't go very hand-in-hand anyway

Future Historian

@Blue. Basically double checking scientific plausibility.

3:18 PM

@Semiclassical That's because hard scifi is relatively rare in the 21st century

Future Historian

^

too much artistic license is used

@Slereah "legless hounds and beheaded corpses in vicious pursuit, haunting the cracked thoroughfares with broken knives and fire atop the harpoons, with some of the innocent and the most distorted men along dragging like crooked rats on broken pavements. Let C be a given ambient (∞,1)-category which is locally cartesian closed; in addition has (∞,1)-colimits. For instance C C could be an (∞,1)-topos (in which case the homotopy type theory would be the internal language of an (∞,1)-topos)."

Future Historian

Oh wait.

Hard sci fi is boring anyway

Anonymous

3:18 PM

@FutureHistorian Alright, but you'd have to come up with the story itself first :P There's already a site for that called Worldbuilding SE

To me, the only way to have a truly hard sci-fi setting in which extraterrestrial invasion occurs is if it's just a simulation

there's my one paragraph hard science fiction

It's always about mars colonization and asteroid mining

i.e. the future-tech equivalent of a video game

Well I mean

Future Historian

3:19 PM

@Blue. I am aleeady with Worldbuilding SE.

Anonymous

@FutureHistorian Ok.

the only way to really have a "hard" version of alien invasion is to model it on humans

Since at least we know humans exist

Hence it is a viable idea for aliens

Future Historian

@Slereah. Not really.......

anything else is pure conjecture

That runs into the usual issue of a man searching for his lost keys underneath a light

3:20 PM

hence why it's best to not worry too much about realism

Too much realism is gonna be boring

Future Historian

Well, the Visitors are from a real planet (Kepler 442b), with the biology existing with a specific set of adaptations in mind.

I had some creative license in the specifics of Kepler 442b, BUT most of it is based on real data.

garbagio

That is silly, there are no aliens on Kepler 442b

(THE HUMANS KNOW)

'most'

(STOP IT)

SHUT IT DOWN

3:22 PM

The key point here is really that the important word in scifi is not science but fiction

Future Historian

@Slereah. What? It is only for the sake of explaining biology.

(he don't get the joke)

Future Historian

@Semiclassical. Let us agree to disagree.

You can use science to inspire the fiction, but it ultimately remains fiction.

Future Historian

Perhaps, but I just want this thing to be acceptable to both an audience and to the scientific community.

3:22 PM

Good luck with that.

Future Historian

It can even be a niche audience, but at least it is an audience.

the key to be a literary genius is to be incoherent, m'dude. you need to realize that trick

@BalarkaSen do you only read Joyce

Future Historian

^

i do read Joyce

3:24 PM

@BalarkaSen yeah, otherwise how are you going to convince academics to write endless papers interpreting you

@Semiclassical correct

good to see a fellow genius

even better you can tell them that they are wrong

and then never reveal the hidden message

Future Historian

Hmmmmm. Well, technically, I did point out back in Worldbuilding SE that it is not going to end well for humanity.

Just ask @Secret.

look, write a story, a good one, scientific one, whatever the hell. then filter it through English to Spanish google translate back and forth a bit

the end result is going to be the masterpiece we need

My pov is that I find it easier to believe that we'll create immersive simulations of interesting sci-fi settings than it is to believe we'll actually end up in an interesting one

3:27 PM

amazon.fr/Redneck-Manifesto-Hillbillies-Americas-Scapegoats/dp/…

here's a great book

@Semiclassical Futuristic science fiction is a rather beaten horse genre anyway

Unrelated: My pov of scifi is to forget about everything and focus how to get reality to truly and utterly shatter the 4th wall

since it is never known to be broken

Future Historian

Still. I can safely say that the Visitors are like the Europeans and humanity is the Native Americans.

And we all know what happened to the Native Americans, right?

;)

Please do tell us what you think happened to the native americans

Future Historian

RIP.

3:29 PM

details needed

the trouble with that analogy is that it remains a problem of scale

Future Historian

You already know the details, @Secret. Keep it like your name. Get it?

Anonymous

At least for alien invasions, I'd expect aliens to look way different compared to the creatures on earth. I'm already done with aliens and gods depicted as creatures which have eyes, legs,noses, legs, hands etc in Marvel and DC and the other mainstream stories.

2

The distances involved in separating the New World from the Old may seem big

Future Historian

drums play in the background

3:30 PM

but compared to the distances involved in the real world, they're nothing

Future Historian

@Blue. I know that. I am going AWAY from humanoids.

Be happy about that.

the details of what happened to the native americans are rather complex and not at all similar to a systematic genocide

Future Historian

True.

The universe is big enough that the existence of other alien life seems both inevitable and irrelevant

Future Historian

But........that is just to make it simpler.

3:31 PM

Blue: Back in my high school when I worldbuild a very vast world, one of my aliens has the mophology of a soap bubble, and no facial feature of any kind

Anonymous

@Secret Hehe, that's actually interesting

@Secret So the average American

Anonymous

@Slereah lol

Just because alien life exists doesn't mean we'll ever have causal interaction with it

Future Historian

But at least there are a few Native Americans left.

3:32 PM

@Blue You know, that idea is a dead horse too. On the contrary, how about we make the aliens looks exactly like us? Homo sapiens being visited from other homo sapiens from outer space - evolution happened in the exactly same way in the only place we expected there to be intelligent beings. How about that?

it'd be very e g d y

Future Historian

Humans in this story by comparison are at population zero.

we all want aliens to look different

Future Historian

And no, the Visitors are NOT humanoid.

why not 100% the same

@BalarkaSen actually that idea is beaten into the ground, too

Future Historian

3:33 PM

^

oh is it now

Star Trek did it to death 60 years ago

Anonymous

@BalarkaSen Isn't the probability of that almost close to 0? (At least considering this universe)

lol

@Blue who cares?

Future Historian

In fact, mind if I describe the Visitors in summary?

3:33 PM

Star Trek had tons of "parallel development" planets episodes

Anonymous

@BalarkaSen Since Future expects hard science....

On the opposite side of the spectrum, I also have a kind of alien which looks exactly like a human being, except having extra organs that allow them to breath toxic gases like SO2, CO2, NH3 etc.

where the whole planet was like earth except everyone wore a hat differently or something

@Blue hard science is garbagio

though back in high school, I basically used that so that reality won't smack me

Anonymous

3:34 PM

@BalarkaSen I can agree that's true for sci-fi

@Slereah well there's the Planet of the Apes thing which is close to it I guess

Future Historian

Basically, in simple terms, think of them as eight-jawed space dogs in appearance but with functional biology being a combination of jellyfish, fungus, amphibians and insects.....in a way.

@BalarkaSen But

IT WAS EARTH ALL ALONG

true

Future Historian

And they are adapted to high gravity environments.

3:35 PM

The Simpsons - Planet of the Apes (the musical) starring Troy McClure

very Shyamalanesque twist of events

I'm sorta reminded of this old xkcd

Click for an actual flowchart for identifying a meteorite. My favorite part is how 'Did someone see it fall? -> Yes' points to 'NOT A METEORITE.' This is not a mistake.

With 'meteorite' replaced with 'truly scientific story involving aliens'

and with "Did someone see it fall?" replaced with "Did a human being come up with this?"

Future Historian

O_O

As stories, they may or may not be satisfying. As science, they're hooey because any human conception of alien life is just that---human, and not alien.

Future Historian

You REALLY should look up "Footfall".

The closest thing to an extraterrestrial hard science fiction story I know.

Bonus points: the extraterrestrials are hervivores and herd-based as cultures.

3:39 PM

Wiki page for it notes objections as to the scientific accuracy of the effects of the asteroid impact

Which isn't to take anything away from it as a story. i haven't read it and therefore can't comment

But I don't expect for a moment that it's 'truly' scientifically accurate. I don't hold that against it, though, because I don't think that's a relevant standard

Future Historian

user image

there needs to be a mathematical hard sci fi

Future Historian

They look like this.

@BalarkaSen string theory? :P

hahah

well string theory is bullshit physics

i mean Edward Frenkel style, but science fiction, not erotica

Future Historian

3:42 PM

They are 1.5 metres tall, 1.2 metres long, have an exoskeleton, can change their skin based on humidity, and also have a tail that can extend itself for reproduction to release spores into the air.....which are stored in those sacs.

any math-related fiction is gonna be bullshit

a line of Kierkegaard which I've always liked goes like this:

cf the movie Pi for instance

“If Hegel had written his whole logic and had written in the preface that it was only a thought-experiment, in which at many points he still steered clear of some things, he undoubtedly would have been the greatest thinker who has ever lived. As it is he is comic.”

Pi sucks

@Slereah also, this ain't bullshit bro

3:43 PM

relevant: smbc-comics.com/?id=1777

also this: smbc-comics.com/comic/math-translations

that man went full naked to make that movie

he really loves math

Future Historian

They also happen to have a life cycle similar to that of a jellyfish, four muscular, thick legs and four eyes. Two for visible light and two for infrared. They also happen to have thicer claws to run faster (by Kepler 442b's standards).

user image

lol

I do math naked all the time

Where's my movie

Future Historian

3:45 PM

In addition, the Visitors have multiple genders; so many to the point it is meaningless, and due to their high metabolism, can live to the age of 20 - 30 without advanced medical technology.

tbh though the reference to Kempner's series in the lower right seems less and less appropriate over time

I can live to 30 without advanced medical technology

Future Historian

They also have eight jaws, four outer jaws and four inner jaws, as well as three fingered hands (including opposable thumbs) used to manipulate their environment and make tools.

I mean, it boils down to "If you've got a really really big number, it probably contains a 9."

Obviously, one still needs to turn that into a proof

Future Historian

The four outer jaws are for grabbing small prey (think mice) and the inner jaws are for eating plants and animals.

3:46 PM

But that's what it boils down to, and making it seem more obscure than that strikes me as weird

what about

midnight coffee fueled writing ftw

$$\int _{0}^{1}x^{-x}\,\mathrm {d} x =\sum _{n=1}^{\infty }n^{-n}$$

Future Historian

So, are they plausible in the context of non-humanoid extraterrestrials?

@Slereah proof?

3:47 PM

Is it not wonderful

@0celo7 exercise

Future Historian

Despite looking like space dogs?

Sophomore's dream

In mathematics, sophomore's dream is the pair of identities (especially the first) ∫ 0 1 x − x d x ...

taylor series

garbage physics math

I can see h bar is in a lockdown state again

3:48 PM

@Secret wot

I do not understand why they are becoming so frequent now

Future Historian

@Slereah? Is their biology good?

i am no biologist

I think 'lockdown' is the wrong word for it

especially not an alien one

3:48 PM

but I'm not sure I know a better one

Future Historian

True.

phase-locked, maybe

Future Historian

But it does help.

really the hard question is probably more "how do they get to earth"

that's usually the sticking point of aliens in hard sci fi

using a flying saucer

3:49 PM

not wrong

sauce all over earth

bbrrrrkkkt

skrt

Future Historian

@Slereah. Nyet.

user image

example

@FutureHistorian are you a communist?

3:50 PM

@Slereah he plan that very detailed, but I will let him do the talking

Future Historian

Not in the conventional sense.

But........

Ignoring that...

user image

The Leviathan!

Basically, it is a mostly modular design surrounded by a structure.

my basic rule of thumb remains: "The only way for humans to talk about aliens is using human conceptions."

your flying saucer looks a little pointy

the sauce would spill all over!

@Semiclassical do you mean human concepts

Or should we use boning to talk about them

lol

Future Historian

3:52 PM

The spacecraft is powered by a nuclear pulse inertial confinement fusion engine, and has rotating habitats on the outside, coupled with point defence lasers, railguns, nuclear torpedoes and enough space to host 20 MILLION total personnel.

conception: 2. the way in which something is perceived or regarded.

@Slereah kek

1 > 2

you cant use the second meaning ever

words with double meaning do not exist

Future Historian

In this image, the spacecraft is in orbit around Titan, detaching one of its rotating habitats to use as a space station to assist in the process of establishing a basic industrial and manufacturing base in our Solar System before making the Hohmann Transfer burn to head for Earth.

Fusion propulsion is pretty slow and requires incredible amounts of hydrogen

unless you're planning on a 5 million year trip

Future Historian

The spacecraft has those black rectangles as RCS thrusters, railguns are on the sides, and the spikes are hard points for the point defence lasers.

@Slereah. I never said this thing was going to be without a means for interstellar travel. Now let me finish.

3:55 PM

honestly you should just make this into an anime not a science fiction book

it seems like a good anime

Future Historian

This spacecraft is sent into interstellar space by two 724 km long antimatter beam core rocket stages.

i'm fine with calling it scifi

Right, I might be an idiot here. But, what's the difference between anime and cartoon?

a math anime

Future Historian

One is for acceleration to 0.75 c. The other is to slow down at the destination.

3:56 PM

@sid stylistic and cultural

but again, key word is fiction not science

チルノのパーフェクトさんすう教室 - Cirno's Perfect Math Class ENGLISH SUB

Anonymous

@Sid Anime is a subset of Cartoons ;)

Future Historian

However, the main spacecraft is 10 km long and 6 km in diameter.

I think expecting a work of fiction to be truly scientific is not a useful standard.

3:56 PM

@Blue lol.

@FutureHistorian that's a lot of antimatter

Huh, there's an actual Stack Exchange question about that....

Future Historian

And this is a small (by Visitor standards) spacecraft, except for the antimatter stages.

@Semiclassical you can do it, but then probably a bad idea to use aliens

or if you do, use boring aliens

ie

bacteria

lol

Future Historian

3:58 PM

Not necessarily.

The Andromeda Strain

bacteria on Titan!

Andromeda Strain was a pretty good movie

yeah

Probably the closest thing to a hard sci fi movie

Just 15 minutes of scientists scrubbing up

I hope you like seeing scientists in the shower

we're talking the original right

3:58 PM

Evolution (2001 film)

Evolution is a 2001 American comic science fiction film directed by Ivan Reitman. It stars David Duchovny, Orlando Jones, Seann William Scott, Julianne Moore, and Ted Levine. It was released by DreamWorks in the United States and by Columbia Pictures internationally. The plot of the film follows college professor Ira Kane (David Duchovny) and geologist Harry Block (Orlando Jones), who investigate a meteor crash in Arizona. They discover that the meteor harbors extraterrestrial life, which is evolving very quickly into large, diverse and outlandish creatures. Evolution was based on a story by Don...

kill evolved bacterias with head & shoulders

10/10 movie

@BalarkaSen Well I do also love Duchovny

I have seen it, yes

@Semiclassical Is there an andromeda strain reboot?

With sexier scientists

there was a 2008 miniseries

Future Historian

Besides, we are talking about a K1.25 group of semi-nomadic space forces that are in the peripehry of the larger K1.6 (on average) civilisation. Kepler 442b is K1.8 on the Kardashev Scale; the closest thing the Visitors have to a K2.0 civilisation.

haven't seen it

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