TRPG General Chat

12:00 AM

And yeah, most of my posts that I would call my favourites are towards the bottom of the list in terms of efficiency.

I assumed you were doing words per upvote and letters per point so that we could look at our differential placement as a measure of word-length in posts =)

trogdor

Goddang it

I accidentally ignored the miniman X(

nitsua60

@Miniman "404 not found" tops my list. I really liked this one.

trogdor

I was just trying to reply

Miniman

@trogdor Wait, so you can't see this, you foul-breathed incontinent dinosaur?

@nitsua60 Tag wiki, maybe?

trogdor

12:02 AM

I actually can you horrible person

I am not signed in on the comp monitor

Miniman

@nitsua60 Nah, it's your profile description.

OH!

It's your moderator nomination.

trogdor

I might have to wait till I get home to fix this

Miniman

Ok, that makes sense.

trogdor

XD

Miniman

I was really wondering how you managed to get a score of 221 on your profile description.

trogdor

12:05 AM

Profile description scores? What?

Miniman

@trogdor No, that was me being wrong. It's his moderator nomination.

trogdor

Oooh

Miniman

Which led me to this nugget of awesome:

> Hi, I'm strong doppelgreener

So much better than weak doppelgreener XD

Hmmm, only the most recent election nominations have scores. Interesting.

trogdor

Oh fixed it

That took a while

Would have been so easy on the comp at home

Miniman

Hey, I mean, if you want to ignore me, you shouldn't feel like that's not an option.

trogdor

12:17 AM

I'll get back to you on that when I have done it on purpose :P

Miniman

@trogdor Can you talk to someone you've ignored?

Ok, for science.

Oooh, your posts all disappeared.

trogdor

Yep

Miniman

@trogdor You don't come up as pingable either, does this still ping you?

trogdor

That is what happened

It did

Miniman

Interesting!

Your avatar on the right also becomes really small.

trogdor

12:20 AM

I don't think I can tell that you ignored me other than that you said you had

Miniman

Yeah, I didn't see anything when you ignored me, either.

trogdor

@Miniman same happened to yours

I had a hell of a time clicking it on the phone and telling it to stop ignoring you

nitsua60

@Miniman that's interesting--never would have thought of that

@Miniman I believe, at the energies he tends to operate at, that you mean "electroweak doppelgreener."

Miniman

@nitsua60 A lot of things are stored as "posts", but they're often accidentally eliminated from queries because they don't have x attribute that the query was looking for.

nitsua60

12:36 AM

Hmm, it's got a link, a history, votes... I guess it's a post. Makes sense. Just a post that gets formatted/displayed differently.

Shalvenay

hey there @nitsua60

Miniman

@nitsua60 It has many of the posty things, and lacks some of them too.

nitsua60

@Shalvenay Hiya.

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 how're things going?

nitsua60

Remember last night when I had two tests to write?

It's grading time.

Miniman

12:44 AM

> Just give them all B- !

@nitsua60 Just while you're around, it'd be great if this got closed before someone writes 3 essays trying to answer it.

nitsua60

@Miniman Thanks for the heads-up.

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 the only part worse than doing homework. :P

Miniman

@nitsua60 No problem! I generally suggest giving everyone B- because...oh you weren't talking about that headsup :(

trogdor

@Miniman I'll bite, why B-?

Miniman

@trogdor Voldemort suggests it to Quirrell in A Very Potter Musical.

trogdor

12:55 AM

Why does he do that?

Miniman

@trogdor It makes sense in context.

trogdor

Seems like a bad way to remain inconspicuous

Ah context, the dragon of great wisdom

nitsua60

Anyone have the time and inclination to help gently onboard/acculturate this user? I'm right up against kids' bedtime, and can't really be attentive for the next few hours.

Asteria

@nitsua60 point them towards NAB maybe? I'll be around on and off for the next 4 or so hours and can try to help them

Shalvenay

hey there @Asteria

Asteria

1:10 AM

hay hay @Shalvenay

Shalvenay

how're things going?

Asteria

@Shalvenay slowly! waiting for things to happen at work, so mostly just twiddling my thumbs. whats up with chu?

Shalvenay

@Asteria going through quite a bit of unipain trying to get the logs to you. neither of my GUI text editors will digest them due to some sort of UTF-8 issue

Asteria

@Shalvenay eww fun

Shalvenay

1:35 AM

@Asteria worst part is it's either NULLs or differences between UTF-8 codecs

Miniman

1:49 AM

@nitsua60 I had a go, but I suspect my point will be undermined when people start answering the question :(

Shalvenay

2:24 AM

hey there @NautArch

NautArch

howdy @Shalvenay

Shalvenay

how're things going?

NautArch

not too bad. dealing with some sort of not-full-moon style craziness with my 6 year old.

nitsua60

impending snow has the same effect

Shalvenay

hey again @Asteria

NautArch

2:31 AM

@nitsua60 we're in blizzard territory

Asteria

2:59 AM

hey hey @Shalvenay ... sorry, ma internet le died

Shalvenay

@Asteria ah :P how're things going otherwise?

Asteria

@Shalvenay slooooooooow. whats up with chu

Shalvenay

@Asteria still wrestling with the unipains

Asteria

@Shalvenay have fuuuuun

Shalvenay

@Asteria @Asteria -- when I do get the logs to you, would it be better if we talked in the NAB or somewhere off-stack?

Asteria

3:03 AM

@Shalvenay either or, doesn't bother me

Shalvenay

@Asteria I was thinking off-stack might be better as it's likely to be a quite involved conversation, and having it out in the NAB just puts more pressure on me to redact the logs to the nines

Asteria

@Shalvenay yeah NP, I can give you my email or FB or something if you want

Shalvenay

@Asteria would Discord work?

Asteria

@Shalvenay yeah discord would be fine. I can't often voice chat because of the little one though

Shalvenay

@Asteria that's no worry. want me to drop you an invite link in the NAB to the sort of unofficial rpg.stackizen discord server?

(it's BESWs but he doesn't mind if I invite folks)

Asteria

3:08 AM

@Shalvenay sure!

Shalvenay

3:23 AM

@Asteria did you see the invite link?

Asteria

@Shalvenay yes'um, sorry

Wheat Wizard

5:59 AM

Is there any way one could test out a question to see if it's off-topic or a dupe before posting? Code-golf and Worldbouilding have sandboxes, which you do not have for what are probably good reasons. I have a question but I'm not sure if should be closed.

Miniman

@WheatWizard Like that question says, asking in chat is probably the easiest way to go about it.

Wheat Wizard

Ok

Miniman

@WheatWizard What's your question? Even if the people in chat atm can't tell you whether it's on-topic or not, we should at least be able to point you in the right direction.

Wheat Wizard

I don't quite have the whole question sorted out. I want to wait until I have everything in order before I ask about it's a dupe.

Miniman

Fair enough! There should always be someone around who can help you out :)

Ben

6:07 AM

Once again, I think I may have missed the point of the question

The way he phrased the question made it sound like he just wanted proficiency, but is he asking about boosted proficiency?

trogdor

Which one?

Ben

0

Q: Is there an official feat that gives expertise for weapons?

I am playing, as well as about to start DM'ing a one shot, in fifth edition D&D and one of my soon-to-be players has talked to me about making either a Fighter (Samurai) or Monk (Kensei) and was wondering if there was any feat that acted like the Bard's "Expertise" class feature but for weapons...

trogdor

Ah 5e no clue XD

Ben

I listed a few feats that would allow "expertise" but none, other than the last feat I listed, state they grant "proficiency" with a weapon

It might be worthwhile pointing out what the deficit is if you don't have proficiency with a weapon.

Miniman

@Ben He asked about feats that give the Expertise feature, but for weapons.

So feats that let you add double your proficiency instead of just your proficiency.

Ben

6:11 AM

Right

What's the negative of not being proficient with a weapon? disadvantage, right?

Miniman

@Ben Nah, you just don't get to add your proficiency bonus to it.

In general, in 5e, 'proficient' means 'can add proficiency bonus to'.

Ben

ah

lmae

Well... no not really haha

Wheat Wizard

Ah I think my question is a dupe. Thanks for the help.

Miniman

I mean, I like it as one of the few things in the game that means exactly what it says.

@WheatWizard All good! If the dupe you've found doesn't completely help you with your problem, you can feel free to ask for clarification here in chat, too.

Wheat Wizard

Oh thanks

I think that is the case.

In a campaign I am currently playing I play an anarchist revolutionary with both an extremely high Charisma stat and magical abilities that make me more convincing. The problem is that I as a player am not very Charismatic, nor am an anarchist, so when I try to convince people to join me in toppling the local government I generally stumble over my words and fail to produce a good reason to do so (as a player).

My character should in theory provide compelling arguments and with the help of magic often convince people but my arguments as a player are often so unconvincing that the GM will tell me they fail before I even perform a roll.

It seems to be a dupe of this

BESW

6:20 AM

What system are you using?

Wheat Wizard

Dungeon World

All the current answers seem to be along the lines of - Practice being X, - Get the GM to feed you info, neither of which seems to really help my problems.

BESW

I don't think that question is really a dupe, because it's asking how to roleplay better. You're asking how to get the GM to stop conflating your abilities with the character's abilities.

Wheat Wizard

hm, I guess that might be true. It might be a bit of both.

I ought to sort the question out a bit more.

BESW

It's a pretty common problem: we don't expect people who play fighters to know how to swing a sword, but we expect people who play persuasive characters to know how to be persuasive.

43

A: How can I DM a character with more social skills than me?

Describe in the abstract Roleplaying a socially adept character is extremely difficult if one doesn't have those skills in real life, but that doesn't mean you can't run one as NPC, or play one as a PC. RPGs ask us to use our imaginations to fill in many things, like character appearances, sett...

Wheat Wizard

Ah nice! Thanks

BESW

6:24 AM

Tangential:

22

Q: How to balance player vs character skills and knowledge

I have played roleplaying games now for about 10 years and there is one problem that is like some kind of ever-present white noise. I have not found a really good solution for it. When player play against each other, using non fighting skills like Diplomacy or Sense Motive, they very often do n...

dnd-5e pathfinder gm-techniques pvp

Wheat Wizard

@BESW I think that answer will be very helpful, thanks!

BESW

Q: How do I make a socially-optimized character in Dungeon World?

I enjoy playing PCs who talk, and can solve social situations effectively. Looking at Defy Danger and Parley as my main uses of Charisma, I'm underwhelmed and somewhat sad to have no Bluff, Intimidate, Persuade, but I also understand why they are absent. With that being said, how do I build a so...

character-creation dungeon-world social-combat

Ultimately, though, it's a table-level convention.

The only lasting solution is to engage with your GM about it.

Your GM has a play style which expects more mechanical abstraction in combat and more detailed role-play in social situations.

This isn't wrong but it's obviously a mismatch with your play expectations.

Wheat Wizard

Yeah, we had a talk about it. It was a little along the lines of "We are building a story together, I can only work with what you give me", which does seem very reasonable.

BESW

Bah.

Have you tried abstracting the interaction?

Wheat Wizard

No I have not, I think that might work

BESW

6:30 AM

I suspect that the problem is in the level of detail.

Wheat Wizard

I feel like I can do that a lot better than actually trying to perform the dialog

BESW

If you were to give the GM the same level of detail about a combat situation--how you're gripping the sword, your foot stance, etc--as you do in a word-for-word role-playing situation, chances are good he'd nitpick that into hard diceless failures too.

Wheat Wizard

Yeah, that makes sense.

BESW

So don't give him the ammo. "I speak to him quietly, explaining the situation as if taking him into my confidence, and gently guide him to coming up with my strategy himself."

[rummages for link]

Not all RPGs talk about this explicitly, but there's a concept called "zooming," where you control the detail of the scene depending on a number of factors.

Think about how a movie might spend an hour and a half depicting one hour of action, or spend 20 seconds on a montage of decades.

Apocalypse World games like Dungeon World are uniquely suited to zooming, because you can have a whole scene turn on a single move, or turn each moment in the scene into its own move.

Wheat Wizard

Yeah the move system is interesting. It's pretty new to me.

BESW

6:38 AM

But because *World moves never leave the story the same as before they happened, the more moves you cram into a single scene the more dramatic and complex it is. This is exactly the opposite of, say, D&D, where the more times you roll the dice the less likely you are to have sudden dramatic shifts in the story.

(In D&D, each roll of the d20 is very unpredictable. Relying on a single skill roll means your modifiers may not matter at all if you roll high or low enough. But if you roll many dice over time and accumulate their effects to reach your goal--like attacks in battle--then your modifiers become statistically significant.)

Wheat Wizard

We have been playing a little closer to D&D than I think the rules want. It's just what the GM is more comfortable with.

BESW

Yeah, Dungeon World is not D&D mechanically. It's designed to tell D&D-esque stories but using a dramatically divergent design philosophy to do it.

It's not a design philosophy I find very useful personally--it's designed to push play agendas that my group leans into organically, so we're better off with systems that push us to do things we wouldn't do on our own--but it's been instrumental in helping a lot of people break free of their D&D training to see that it's just one tiny corner of the RPG landscape.

23

Q: Dungeon World after much D&D (3.5E, 4E and 5E) - struggling with what degree of "fiction first" applies to moves

My group tried out Dungeon World for first time. We've played quite a variety of games, but the most time has been spent with D&D 4E and 5E. During the session - which in general I enjoyed - I felt something wasn't quite right for the group, but only based on my understanding of what DW is abou...

dungeon-world gaming-style

46

Q: How can I politely handle a GM who doesn't appear to 'get' how Dungeon World works?

My gaming group recently decided that our next game was going to be Dungeon World, GMed by my flatmate who I will refer to as Bob. Bob has played a one-shot of DW with myself as GM in the past and has also occasionally run games for the group. As a GM he tends towards the 'challenge the players...

dungeon-world problem-gm

Wheat Wizard

Thanks for the links. I don't think I ought to mention anything because this game is already over a year old and just wrapping up. At this point I think most of the players are pretty happy with the way things are.

BESW

It may be useful for you, anyway, and you can bring them up going forward.

I always try to have a post-mortem after my games.

Wheat Wizard

Not to mention I'll be playing DW with a new GM in the spring so it might be useful then

BESW

6:49 AM

Cool.

I've played one short Dungeon World game, and run a short game in Monster of the Week which uses the same engine.

Wheat Wizard

Thanks for all the links and advice, I think I'll be a lot better off with all this in my back pocket.

BESW

So long as everyone's safe and happy, there's no objectively wrong way to play an RPG, but the better I understand the system the more I can make it work for us--or recognize that a different system would match the group better.

In particular, Apocalypse World games have Very Strong Opinions about GM behaviors, and it's really easy to accidentally crack the system wide open if a GM treats their rules for the GM as mere advice.

D&D-like games tend to have a "rule 0" about it being the GM's sole and ultimate prerogative to modify and adjudicate the table however they see fit. Apocalypse World disagrees.

trogdor

I also disagree

though in some ways I still disagree with the way the only AW game I played was layed out in terms of rules

it definitely didn't tell me from the get go how it expected me to act as a player

BESW

Yeah, Monster of the Week wasn't a great introduction to that school of games.

It was written for folks who already got the paradigm.

trogdor

yeah

not my favorite practice that

Wheat Wizard

6:59 AM

@BESW The description of the Wolf fight in How can I politely handle a GM who doesn't appear to 'get' how Dungeon World works? feels really familiar.

trogdor

I even enjoyed monster of the week, but that particular thing did put a damper on the enjoyment

Wheat Wizard

I might want to talk to the GM anyway even if it is the tail end of a long game.

BESW

If you do, I suggest approaching the GM as a co-collaborator excited about sharing something you've found, rather than with an air of frustration or chastisement.

Folks are a lot more open to changing their understanding of something if they can learn about it without feeling defensive.

Wheat Wizard

Yeah sounds like a good idea.

BESW

It's common for RPG groups to develop an antagonistic PCs-against-the-world dynamic which can easily turn into an unhealthy players-against-the-GM dynamic, and Dungeon World really needs everybody at the table to trust each other.

Wheat Wizard

7:07 AM

Ah we have a very strong PCs against each other dynamic.

BESW

If folks like @Magician with more *World experience under their belts would like to add or disagree, that'd be excellent.

@WheatWizard Ah, that can be a lot of fun so long as the players are all happy about it.

Wheat Wizard

It is quite fun. We are mostly pretty heavy paranoia players so its a familiar setting.

BESW

One of our most fun adventures ever involved @trogdor's PC getting replaced by a shapeshifting villain, also played by @trogdor, for most of the storyline. All the players were in on it and loved pushing the drama while controlling exactly when the deception would be revealed, for maximum effect.

trogdor

hee yes

very proud of that one

BESW

(Especially since Troggy's PC was the dysfunctional father figure to another PC, and the villain turned out to be better at pretending to be a parental figure than the actual PC was at being one.)

trogdor

7:14 AM

well, only because she made assumptions about what any father figure would do

fortunately for her everyone seemed to think it was just a generally good thing

BESW

Also Queen Vulturra'd had Sko-Lar read Doctor Light's mind and summarize it for her, and Doctor Light thinks he's a great father to Stellata.

trogdor

well and also

Sko-Lar probably left out whatever key information he could

considering

to be fair as well, I didn't origionally make Dr Light for him to be a father at all

BESW

@trogdor Ah, yes, Good advice is hard to bind.

trogdor

let alone apparently a lackluster one

@BESW yes

not that I don't accept it now, just that I had not originally crafted the character to be so,... ignorant of his particular failings in that area

but considering everything else, if he is a bad father it is sorta better if he is unaware of it

otherwise his whole character would be very out of alignment with that fact

BESW

7:49 AM

@trogdor Nooooo not the "A" word!

trogdor

lol

I was not using it that way

and you know I wasn't :P

Erics

8:48 AM

huh, is it ever a good strategy to attack the body (& not the heads) of a hydra in 2e/3e/4e/5e?

trogdor

why would you attack the heads?

are those not the worst parts?

kviiri

Depends on whether you got a sword of flaming.

Erics

There's one variety where if you kill a head then two more will grow in in 1d4 rounds unless cauterised with fire/acid. The other varieties don't have that capability. They all, generally, take half or less damage on body hits.

trogdor

oooh

ok

Erics

in 2e "Attacks on the body have no effect unless a single attack inflicts damage equal to the hydra's original hit points."

This particular hydra also didn't have any legs, and the heads were casting heal spells.

trogdor

9:01 AM

lol

oh D&D

how I don't really miss thee

kviiri

@trogdor Hah :)

trogdor

XD

Erics

Hmm ... looking at the stats for 5e Hydra .. is 1HP in 2e equivalent to more in 5e, i.e. there was awesomeness-inflation in the edition-iterations? (eg. "woot! I did 50 damage" sounds more awesome than "woot! I did 5 damage")

BESW

@Erics That might be a good main-site question.

Erics

bit narrow I thought ... but then also there are some other questions that are a bit wide.

(never remember that syntax right :-/)

A consequence of bounded reality, according to this answer. So, not a linear x% more, but some kind of power scaling.

kviiri

9:39 AM

Bounded accuracy is nice in a way

I kinda disliked how quickly high-level opponents in 4e became frustratingly invulnerable to PC attacks.

BESW

Yeah, 4e worked a lot better with L1E numbers.

L1E isn't bounded by any means, but it kept things consistent over time and better reflected the explicit design intent.

(L1E = Level One Equivalent, and was a table of revised attack/damage/defense/hp numbers for monsters of every type at every level, with an eye toward keeping combat number ratios at every level the same as they are at level 1.)

kviiri

Bounded accuracy is good because it makes twenty goblins a challenging encounter for a level 5 party, but bad because it makes GMs want to make an encounter with twenty goblins against a level 5 party :)

BESW

In 4e, your goblins would always be about the same level as the party, but you could scale their threat up or down in other ways.

Like, if you wanted 20 goblins to attack the party, make 'em minions: same-level defenses and attacks, standardized damage a little under average, but only 1 hp each. Every four minions comes out to roughly the same challenge as one standard goblin.

So you could have your 20-goblin fight and it'd be the same challenge as fighting five normal goblins: that is, it'd be a bit more challenging than the average encounter but not boss fight difficulty.

Or you could have one goblin with boss-level numbers that'd be the equivalent, all by himself, of four standard goblins.

It was great to have creature types set free from tiered difficulties. I was never very fond of being forced to "outgrow" certain threats as the party progressed.

trogdor

mm

it is a strange concept when you think about it in a certain light

why, for example, should there be no way for a goblin to transcend his people's usual weaknesses in certain areas in order to be a threat to people higher than say, 3rd level or more

BESW

9:54 AM

Well, there were always class levels.

But that still meant low-level threats were low-level threats with notable exceptions.

In 4e, threats had "levels" mostly in that you'd get new threats with fancier mechanics as you leveled up and gained the ability to keep up with those mechanics.

(Like, you don't get a lot of teleporting enemies in heroic tier adventures, but they're very commonplace in epic adventures.)

trogdor

yeah

BESW

But a goblin lair could still be a credible threat at epic levels even though they wouldn't have all the bells and whistles of a mind flayer or a death knight.

trogdor

yeah, my point was, why remove something from your tool belt just because the PC's leveled up?

BESW

I do understand that, actually.

It's the logical outgrowth of an "immersive" setting, if part of your setting is linear power progression.

It's part of the original "rags to riches" --or more accurately "peasant to plunderous plutocrat"-- story that D&D was about.

You start out with a pathetic weakling and if you're lucky and clever eventually one of your characters lives long enough to lord it over the goblins who slaughtered your previous five characters.

There's a sense of accomplishment, that the world objects which once challenged you are now trivial.

trogdor

but like

you can't reaaaaly have fun just going back to fight those same goblins after they are no longer any kind of threat

there is no challenge

BESW

10:02 AM

And that progression tool got baked into the setting's power mechanics and became diegetic and didactic.

@trogdor I think you're underestimating the enjoyment which can be found in laughing derisively at the fools.

trogdor

I mean,.... right after I said that I thought of video game equivelents

even in say,... RTS games

I used to lord it over a computer opponent who I had already beaten by letting them live a little longer and walling their base in

XD

kviiri

@BESW The editions of DnD I've played have handled the mechanics of massive amounts of opponents rather poorly, though.

trogdor

so I see the other side of the argument more clearly now

BESW

@kviiri Oh, absolutely. 4e did it... better... up to maybe a dozen or a dozen and a half, and after that you have to start hacking in mob rules.

In 4e I modeled battlefield scenes as environmental hazards surrounding whatever task the PCs had to deal with.

(It was actually good schema for Fate!)

kviiri

11:02 AM

Yeah, my first instinct for having a really large amount of enemies would be situation aspects.

Probable first thing I'll screw up when GM'ing FAE for the first time: too many aspects.

BESW

Shortly after Fate Core was released, the entire Fate community on G+ went through a prolonged "aspects solve everything!" phase.

kviiri

Glad to see I'm not the only one!

doppelgreener

protip: aspects don't solve everything

kviiri

Although I don't deal with absolutes, so I'm more in the "aspects solve everything most of the time" mindset and aware it's probably not as simple as that.

> "Only a Sith deals in absolutes!"
> -- some Jedi guy totally dealing in absolutes

doppelgreener

aspects solve everything all the time, some of the time

kviiri

11:05 AM

Huh. Why isn't it italicizing

BESW

Line breaks also break most markdown.

kviiri

That's sad :<

BESW

Yes, but line breaks also significantly increase the maximum character limit. So there's that.

kviiri

11:39 AM

Does anyone have ideas for a collaborative world-generation for a Space Western game? The idea is to let all players involved create planets/satellites/systems/factions to adventure around later.

Trish

@kviiri Start by making some kind of form that each place/group has to conform to. like "Name, head of operatins, members, type of typical members, interests" for a group/faction or "name, size, type, stellar locked?, average temperature, dominating aequatorial climate..." for a planet.

This way all results are equally readable to all the players and GM - you know where to find what info.

I totally propose GURPS Space for planet designing

(side note: the only three terrains that can be planet encompassing are: ocean (liquid or frozen, any type of fluid), desert (sand/rock/ice), gas giant (you can't land on them). ANY other terrain will have to cope with significantly cooler poles and will have at least 2 other climate zones: at the poles, some intermediate, and then the aequatorial region)

BESW

@kviiri Microscope is a pretty awesome tool for setting creation.

You get to collaboratively map out the broad strokes of generations of history and drill down into whatever specific places and events and eras the group likes, and when you're done the group can pick where and when in the history they want to play the "normal" campaign.

kviiri

@BESW But I'd have to learn it and teach it to the other players, and it'd take a while... so I'd probably want something more lightweight

BESW

The whole game manual is 81 pages.

And it includes "read this out loud" introductory guides.

But there are a number of games with table-driven stellar setting design.

kviiri

Well, not knowing what exactly Microscope entails, or what exactly "more lightweight" entails, I understand it's hard to make good comparisons here

Erics

11:55 AM

@kviiri is your intent for their to be game-fun in designing/discovering the various worlds? (vs focus being on tackling some narrative arc set within those environments)

Trish

my old GURPS Space guide has individual chapters that would be somewhat rlevant: chapter 1 on politics, chapter 7 on surroundings, 8 creating starships, and then Chapter 10: making stellar systems, planets and galaxies.

BESW

Astounding Interplanetary Adventures will generate you a whole planet in 4d6.

4d6

Dice Service

•

kviiri

@Erics No, mostly adventuring in them. I'm drawing heavy inspiration from Firefly, which is rather heavy on the Western side.

BESW

A city planet of anarchic hedonists are being threatened by invaders.

kviiri

11:58 AM

What I was thinking at first is some sort of taking turns to declare celestial bodies along with some descriptors. "Okay, so this is Prenecron IV, it's a frozen and unhospitable world. With a thriving slave industry mining its rich deposits of Seldomobtainium."

BESW

I've recently been looking at Diaspora's interstellar mapping system.

Trish

@kviiri that works too - just make a standardn notation for it

kviiri

Then other players, on their turns, could declare extra facts about the existing worlds: "Prenecron IV also has mutant yaks whose fur is bulletproof!"

BESW

A lot of it depends on what's important for your game.

@kviiri That... is sounding more Microscope-y.

kviiri

@Trish I don't think we'll need much standarding, these tags are meant to be more narrative descriptors than mechanics of their own. Sort of like planet-wide situation aspects.

Trish

12:02 PM

not stuff like "Atmosphere is alcohol, the planet body is solid duranium and has 6g"?

kviiri

Atmospheric hallucinogens... hmm!

BESW

Microscope is a GMless game. The group starts by defining a broad swathe of history like "an interstellar empire expands and collapses," and takes turns listing things they'd like to see which might not obviously be part of that history ("dragons," "telepathy") and things they don't want to see at all which might otherwise naturally come up ("aliens," "exploding planets").

After that, the game proper starts. On each person's turn they define an era, a period within an era, or a moment within the period, and write it down on a card.

There's a rigid structure for how to do it, and ways to make sure that interesting things get reinforced.

nitsua60

@BESW Traveller's planet generation is only eight or so d6, IIRC. (CT, that is--don't know about these newfangled (read: post-1985) versions.)

BESW

Things can be added to any part of the history at any time during the game, so you can have Space Atlantis fall into a black hole without taking away the ability for the group to still do cool stuff with Space Atlantis pre-implosion.

A major quality of the game is that you can't give people suggestions. On your turn, you add something all on your own. The collaboration is in building on each others' contributions over time to come up with something nobody expected.

kviiri

I actually just secured a Microscope book loan from a friend so I'll know for real soon

BESW

12:09 PM

We once played a game about how a great empire was destroyed by a technovirus which turned living creatures into cyborgs, leaving only a handful of humans alive in the end. Halfway through the session we discovered through play that the great empire was an empire of dragons and humans were slaves who got freed by the virus because they were the only creatures immune to it.

kviiri

I was under the impression that Microscope is good for creating events, but not as good for creating environments

But if I'm wrong I'll be happy to try it.

doppelgreener

Plot idea: christmas pirates. They steal your presents and leave behind some gold, coal, and cookies.

Calling song:
We wish you a merry piracy
We wish you a merry piracy
We wish you a merry piracy
And a startling new fear
(Have half the choir start the "we" of the next line at the same time the other half sings the "cy" of the previous)

nitsua60

@doppelgreener And by "choir" I assume you mean "crew"?

=)

@kviiri I've used Microscope successfully both in its original, temporal intent (creating events/histories for a game-world) and in a spatial hack (creating civilizations, states, regions, cities, neighborhoods, &c.). I haven't tried out "Kingdom" yet, which is another of Ben Robbins' creations.

BESW

12:25 PM

> What shall we play with a red-nosed reindeer?
What shall we play with a red-nosed reindeer?
What shall we play with a red-nosed reindeer?
We'll play no games with him!

kviiri

My hopes is mainly that we'll have one to three large spacefaring political entitites to highlight some political and cultural differences, a handful of "big places" (empire capitals and large hubs) and a dozen or so frontier worlds with various hazardous environments and wants unaddressed by their suzerains.

As well as a few criminal masterminds, corrupt politicians or such to fence whatever loot the players find during their adventures.

I think that's what the genre expects, but then again "the genre" is always a flexible concept.

doppelgreener

12:43 PM

@nitsua60 Both! :D They multitask!

I imagine the tradition in that region is you leave out little presents beside the tree, lock your door, and wait for the Christmas pirates to smash in through the window. (Those who leave the window open hoping to minimize property damage find the window smashed to pieces anyway out of spite.)

@BESW Brilliant

BESW

1:00 PM

> Let him join tag but never tag him!
Let him join tag but never tag him!
Let him join tag but never tag him!
Never let him be It!

BESW

1:12 PM

(Don't get me started. I once wrote a filk about scifi.se identification questions to the tune of What Child is This?)

doppelgreener

.... I wouldn't mind if you did get started, though!

I mean I like what you're doing here already.

BESW

1:29 PM

[scribbles notes]

> We captains of Caribbea are
Looting gifts from under the star
Tree and tinsel
Toe of mistle
Raiding your minibar

> I saw three thieves go sailing out
On Christmas Day, on Christmas Day
I saw three thieves go sailing out
On Christmas Day in the morning

BESW

1:46 PM

> What swill is this in bottles kept
Like a witch's foul potion?
Which crewmen greet and find so sweet
While captains dole out portions?
This, this, is rum: the drink
Makes captains drunk and crewmen stink
Haste, haste, to bring it
The rum, the drink of sailors.

doppelgreener

which melody (or melodies) are these for? :)

BESW

"We Three Kings," "I Saw Three Ships," and "What Child is This"

(And the first one was "What Shall We Do with the Drunken Sailor")

It's also that time of the year when I look for a version of Good King Wenceslas that probably doesn't exist.

BESW

2:09 PM

Here's one from the archives:

Dec 12 '14 at 8:47, by BESW

> New Besties: Because I have a fully armed and operational battle station, I can use Shoot instead of Rapport to make friends.

Anne Aunyme

2:45 PM

I would never have suspected to get such a big gap between the answers to my last question...

between the cheapest price and the most expensive there is for now a factor 960

kviiri

Magic weapon pricing - not even once!

@WheatWizard Hi!

SmokeDetector

3:09 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in answer: Can divine magic users learn arcane spells from a spellbook? by Olivia Neale on rpg.SE

nitsua60

@doppelgreener Given that Leonard Cohen reportedly wrote over 50 verses for "Hallelujah" during its composition, I've got to assume one of them is a pirate-themed one.

kviiri

@nitsua60 Well, it can't be much worse than verse 38. which is basically a lewd Star Trek fanfic.

nitsua60

3:37 PM

I just realized that Leonard Cohen's attempts to write "Hallelujah" probably exceed, in length, the US Treasury's analysis of the proposed tax reform making its way through congress.

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 Well I heard me of a mighty port / Of culture rife and tons of gold / But it was fortified with cannons to bombard ye! / So we snuck into / the cannon crew / their beds we burned and men we slew / and then all night the city was ours to raid and plunder!

nitsua60

I highly approve of the Cohen-style rhyming of "bombard ye" and "plunder" =D

Yuuki

@nitsua60 The one thing to hope for is that there is also a ninja verse, a zombie verse, and a robot verse. And then we'll put them all together for a ninja pirate zombie robot Hallelujah.

nitsua60

The Telegraph claims there are at least 80 verses. If that's true one must assume ninjas, zombies, and robots all make appearances.

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 This was completely intentional and I know exactly what you mean, but please explain it because uh [sweats, glances around] I'm sure everyone else here would want to know what you mean.

Erik

3:47 PM

https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/111654/how-to-deal-with-to-strong-and-hiding-players?noredirect=1#comment269797_111654
< this is drawing answers to both of its questions; can a mod close/clean it maybe? :)

nitsua60

@doppelgreener I'm just sayin', Cohen pulled off some impressive near-rhymes in the song. (I mean, getting anything to rhyme with "hallelujah" is a chore. Probably need to try about 80 times....) So I'm assuming that's sung "bombardyah" and "and plundah" to set up the "hallelujah" rhyme

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 ahhh :)

@Erik @nitsua60 I'm thinking close as unclear, what do you think?

I'm not sure what the questions in it are from looking at it

Erics

If you were in a campaign the DM has described as "story driven", how many sessions before you would expect to have some clue what the story is about?

nitsua60

@doppelgreener It looks to me like "how do I challenge in combat a party with two tanks and two strikers who hide effectively?"

NautArch

@doppelgreener breaking it down: i have a player with what i think is a high ac. How do i crate scenarios that aren't auto-wins for them? Question 2: I have some players who are extremely good at kiting and are difficult to find to hit. How do I handle that?

doppelgreener

3:50 PM

It could be something of handling both at once because they're interconnected, and so we need to find a way to challenge both types at once.

nitsua60

^^

doppelgreener

@Erics "Story driven" can mean a lot of things, and so doesn't mean much just on its own. If it means "there's a story for you to explore in this game" I'd expect to know the basics of the story right at the start.

kviiri

Not only that, "what the story is about" is also wildly variable.

Erics

What we know from the start is that the border village of Stepford was recently established by a bunch of NPCs, who then established an adventurers guild (to do all their dirty work). We were handed a sheet of NPCs and their backgrounds, jobs, origins, etc. And that "there is some danger impending".

NautArch

@doppelgreener Is this a "too broad" question? I mean, there are answers involving battle design, monsters that require saves instead of attacks, etc.

Erics

3:55 PM

Since then, we've murdered some goblins, murdered some goblins, murdered a stone giant, negotiated with a xorn, murdered some snow mind flayers, and murdered a mad wizard and his pal.

NautArch

@Erics how much time have you as players spent trying to interact with the villagers?

Erics

None of those adventures overlap in any way. Pretty sure none were even in the same locations. We've been sent far west, north-east, north-west, and east.

Erik

@doppelgreener I can see what it's about, but it's currently about two things. I voted to close as "too broad" because of that.

NautArch

@Erics I'm clerarly giving a huge benefit of the doubt here, but it may be that none of those adventures overlap in any way that you currently know

Erics

Off and on we do NPC interactions, a simple play-by-mail background thing for whichever PCs are not on the current adventure (we each have about 3 or 4 PCs).

kviiri

3:59 PM

"Story-driven" means, to some, that the game is based upon narrative - not necessarily the presence of a cool story or a sort of "actual" story at all.

Erics

So, each week there's 2-3 interactions with the notable town NPCs per player.

kviiri

As a side note, my campaign got on to a similar start because of several player absences forcing me to postpone "plot-critical" missions :)

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