The Reading Room - 2017-10-29

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2:18 AM

> Before anything else, grammar itself renders [objectivity] impossible. I, being a subject, cannot become the object. I can view the object, but I will never be objective because the object in question is not me. If it were, it would become the subject, and thus we return to where we started. (source)

2 hours later…

4:14 AM

0

Q: Why does the narrator ask to "give me some time" in "Brand New Day" by Ryan Star?

From Brand New Day by Ryan Star contains the following lyrics: I stayed in one place for too long Gotta get on the run again I saw the one thing that I want Hell bent, get outta bed I'm throwing rocks at your window You're tying the bed sheets together They say we are dreaming too...

song-lyrics ryan-star

8 hours later…

12:16 PM

@Randal'Thor ?

(There was a feminisim tag on something. I removed it, and now it's been nuked as an unused tag.)

@TimE.Lord since you're here ... I was just thinking of pinging you about the comics tag.

According to our policy on medium tags, we should only use them when the specific work being asked about is too short to merit its own tag. E.g. short-stories instead of a-cask-of-amontillado, or poetry instead of the-unreturning.

But we have a lot of questions tagged comics, and some of those also have what seem to be work/series tags, like lucifer or the-sandman.

By the general policy, shouldn't those questions (about comics which are big enough to merit their own tags) not have the comics tag as well?

Medium tags are supposed to be a replacement for title tags, not an addition.

But given my general ignorance of comics, I wanted to discuss this with you @TimE.Lord rather than just going on an editing spree.

1 hour later…

1:43 PM

@Randal'Thor If that's the case, why not? Although I'd say, if the tags helps navigating the site, it should be used. comics doesn't hurt to have, by the same reasoning (I think) the Library of Congress system has all the comics bundled together.

@TimE.Lord That's a fair point ... but we don't have a novel tag for all questions about novels, and while we do have a theatre tag, it's only for general questions about theatre as a whole rather than all questions about plays.

Too bad, a [theatre] tag would be useful if used on all related questions

I already expressed my thoughts about the [novel] tag: I feel like too many questions here would use it, so it's not beneficial to have it

Idk, I'd like the comics tag to stay.

2:01 PM

This would make an interesting meta discussion, regardless of its outcome.

Even the poetry tag isn't being used on all questions about poems.

Pretty sure we have some poems which are long/important enough to get their own tags, and those questions aren't being tagged with poetry.

the-raven, odyssey

(Does the Odyssey count as a 'poem'?)

Isn't it?

It's an epic poem, which may not be what you immediately think of, but it's still a poem.

Well, that's an excellent example then.

Same with the song-lyrics tag, but I know even less there than for comics about what might count as a 'long' work/series vs a 'short' one.

There's something called an 'album', right? Is that like a series, or more like a loose collection? (I.e. should we treat it the same way as a book series which gets tags or an anthology which doesn't?)

2:07 PM

I personally don't think that we should be using any tags other than song-lyrics on those questions.

For one, do you use the artists name or the composer's name?

@Mithrandir Why not? Surely an author tag at least?

Do you tag by album, or song? The same song can be found on multiple albums; it can also be released as a single.

What about different covers?

Or remixes?

@Mithrandir Ah, that answers my question about albums then - they're more like anthologies rather than book series.

So no album tags, just song-lyrics.

(I'm sorry if I'm talking half jargon here, music is one of my interests.)

(No worries, it's probably 'jargon' that everyone except me would understand.)

(insert "kids these days" grumble)

Looking at the existing song lyrics questions, it seems people have been using just the song-lyrics tag and some kind of author tag (band? group? whatever you call them).

So it's being treated pretty much like short-stories.

2:18 PM

But should that be the composer or the artist?

Let's say I wanted to ask a question about this song (which I have one in mind):

The Maccabeats and Naturally 7 - Shed a Little Light - MLK Jr. Day - (James Taylor Cover)

It's a remix by the Maccabeats & Naturally 7 of James Taylor's cover of Shed a Little Light.

I'm not sure who the composer is.

What would take the place of the author tag here?

(woop, gotta run. I'll continue this later)

2 hours later…

4:04 PM

@Shog9 took your excellent advice and just changed my password to something I don't remember.

(If/When I want to come back, I can just use the forgot password feature).

@Hamlet What, you're leaving the site entirely for a time? :'(

@Randal'Thor yep. I was supposed to be on a haitus, but I'm not capable of doing that, so...

@Hamlet Well, I hope things are OK with you IRL, and look forward to your return!

@Randal'Thor oh, IRL things are going great.

I'll miss our discussions. You're my go-to person to ping for thoughts/advice on all sorts of things here.

4:10 PM

@Randal'Thor oh, you can always email me

Haven't got your email address.

(If you post it here, I can delete and purge history after reading it.)

@Randal'Thor could you post yours and then purge it?

Or you could ask Mith/Emrakul in TL.

@Hamlet Sure, I've posted mine before in SE chat: <removed>

@Randal'Thor great I'll email you

And thanks! :-D

4:13 PM

@Randal'Thor emailed

I'm happy to answer questions people have, but I'm no longer interested in advocating for site policy, so...

@Hamlet and replied. Yay, we have contact!

All right, we'll that's it for Stack for me for at least the next month or so

See ya!

o/

Goodbye and best wishes :-)

4:45 PM

So re song-lyrics and 'author' tags, that's probably worth a meta post.

Essentially, I think there are three options:

1.) no tag at all

2.) composer tag

3.) artist tag

It probably makes the most sense to go with a composer tag, but remixes and different covers muddy the waters.

And sometimes the composer can be difficult to identify.

And sometimes different artists use songs by many different composers, so an expert in that artist may not be able to easily locate all songs by that artist.

They're also generally marketed more as by the artist.

And what about parodies?

But it's also possible to be an expert in a composer's works.

So you can have an expert in one artist's songs, which were written by many different composers but performed by the same group, or an expert in one composer, who's an expert in that composer's works even though they are performed by many different artists.

And then I suppose you can have an expert in a single album, even though it's got songs by different artists and different composers.

...and then you've got people who specialize in classical music, or heavy metal, or techno, or a cappella...

But we don't have a science-fiction tag, so I doubt we'll have a heavy-metal tag either.

Although who knows. heavy-metal may be closer to a style of songs than a genre, so I dunno.

Like, if a song is heavy metal it'll sound very different from a different style.

I think this song illustrates that well:

The Maccabeats - Dayenu - Passover

</stream of consciousness>

5:30 PM

(the Maccabeats have some good examples for this discussion)

Like, say, youtu.be/JB-RNaSz7KQ

If anyone can figure out who should get the author tag for that song please tell me :P

2 hours later…

7:49 PM

Note to self (or anyone else interested in answering this question): I've found a site which might yield an answer, although it'll take a lot of work.

Oh, it's just too weird looking at Rupert stories again. Whisks me right back to my childhood.

If only I'd posted that question years ago when I could (probably) recall every Rupert story perfectly from just its title and the front cover of the whole annual.

@Randal'Thor since you brought it up, want to write a meta post about it?

Or would you prefer if I did, and brought the stuff I mentioned here?

8:04 PM

@Mithrandir Pretty sure I'm too ignorant about song lyrics even to ask about it. Unless a simple, unadorned "How should we tag [song-lyrics] questions?" is enough?

Hmm, I don't think that that presents the specific issue with artists/composer etc...

On the other hand, that allows discussion of e.g albums as well.

So maybe just a blanket question would be a good idea.

Ahem ... I typed How should we tag [song-lyrics] questions? into the question title box and found this:

2

Q: How should we tag questions about song lyrics?

Currently, we have a number of song-lyrics questions. Currently, all of them are tagged with [song-lyrics] and the name of the artist who wrote the song. Should we also include a tag for the specific album (the same way that we tag specific books by authors)? I'm inclined to say that we should, ...

discussion tags

Yeah, that doesn't address the artists

My answer addresses the title tag vs medium tag issue.

You could add another answer to address the author issue?

I've got no idea which would be better at this point.

I could probably make a case for either artist or composer, actually.

8:16 PM

Well, then maybe post a new question specifically about author tags for song-lyrics questions, and see if someone else can make a good case.

(Also, it's important to think outside of modern popular music. We want a solution that works for all kinds of song lyrics, not just those in our own culture and about which questions have already been asked.)

2 hours later…

9:57 PM

0

Q: Does the pairing of "The Lamb" and "The Tiger encapsulate William Blake's motto?

I just read William Blake's motto and Blake's Songs of Innocence and Experience this week. However, there is something confusing. Do the poems from Innocence and Experience really encapsulate William's motto? This is a bit confusing because even pairing two of the most famous poems "The Lamb" and...

poetry character-analysis william-blake

@Bookworm I suspect it just encapsulates our eagerness to reduce complex people to a simple aphorism.

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