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8:27 PM
What is the outer measure of a Vitali set?
 
@Tobias finally finished that cool exercise 15. Took me a while to come up with some steps, really nice. Wish we had that interesting group theory exercises in my abstract algebra class
It's amazing how many things you can deduce from a simple condition like every non-trivial subgroup is a p-group for some p
 
@MatheiBoulomenos Yeah, it is a neat one
 
wow, i'm gone for 4 hours and there's literally been no activity
 
There are a few more things that one could deduce, but those take some more theory
 
@MatheiBoulomenos What's the exercise?
 
8:35 PM
It is actually possible to completely determine the possible orders
 
@Tobias may I share the link?
 
@MatheiBoulomenos Sure
I put it there for people to look at after all
 
(it has been downloaded a ton of times, though I am not sure how many of those were really web crawlers and such)
 
exercise 15 is the one I talked about
 
8:36 PM
pure keeps download statistics for the documents that are made available directly through the website
 
@MatheiBoulomenos Cheers, will have a go at it over the weekend!
@MatheiBoulomenos I thought you might have been talking about something related to the Nottingham group! hahaha
 
@ÍgjøgnumMeg If you wish to do the other exercises, there are two errors in them. Unfortunately, it does not seem like it is possible to update the document on pure in any easy way
 
@TobiasKildetoft Which exercises? I'll make a note of them
 
I would actually love a seperate course on finite groups where you do more advanced stuff like Burnside transfer, Frattini groups or stuff like that, but there's no prof at my uni working on finite groups, so I guess it's unliekly
The most advanced stuff we did was Sylow >.<
 
@MatheiBoulomenos I did a reading course on the more advanced stuff, then one on representations
 
8:39 PM
@MatheiBoulomenos Most advanced stuff we did was like... cosets
@MatheiBoulomenos The lecturer didn't even manage to get the class onto quotient groups
 
Oh I did a seminar on representation theory, from Serre's book, it was cool
@ÍgjøgnumMeg no quotients? that's strange
 
@ÍgjøgnumMeg It is in exercise $3$, where I originally had the second coordinate be with values in $\{0,1\}$ instead of $\pm 1$, and I forgot to change this in the last part of the exercise
 
@MatheiBoulomenos Yeah, the university decided that group theory wasn't worth teaching so they offloaded it into some stupid 4 week course that nobody really cared about
@MatheiBoulomenos All of my algebra/number theory knowledge has been self-taught because the university doesn't value pure subjects at all, unfortunately :(
 
and in exercise 5(5) where the automorphism $\varphi_g$ should send $h$ to $ghg^{-1}$ rather than to $hgh^{-1}$
 
@TobiasKildetoft Cool thank you :)
 
8:42 PM
We did at least Sylow and solvable groups, the latter mostly for applications in Galois theory
 
@AkivaWeinberger @LeakyNun @Secret @Semiclassical You guys might be interested in Golf a number bigger than TREE(3), to which I managed an answer.
 
I did Sylow as the last thing in the group theory part of the course I am lecturing now
 
@SimplyBeautifulArt nice
 
I mentioned solvable groups briefly as part of a sidetrack into the relevance to Galois theory
On Monday we will be starting on rings
 
@TobiasKildetoft I think it's a good way to end a first course, solvable groups seems kinda unmotivated if you don't talk about galois theory
 
8:44 PM
@SimplyBeautifulArt I thought we don't have any upper bound on TREE(3)
 
Well, we talked about Galois theory, that's why we did solvable groups, really
 
@LeakyNun We do, as indicated by the commons. What we lack is a tight upper bound.
 
@ÍgjøgnumMeg It just ended the group theory part, which takes up about 4-5 weeks of the 14 weeks of the course total
 
@SimplyBeautifulArt ok
 
I am having an algebra crisis in the sense that I want to learn Galois theory but I can't figure out how or where to start. One of the problems being that I know a lot of the things here and there and superficially, but also that it's hard for me to read algerba
This is so frustrating
 
8:46 PM
:-)
 
> it's hard for me to read algebra
lol
 
@BalarkaSen Also hard for you to spell it, it seems.
 
See?
 
the only things setting you back, Balarka,
is your very self
 
@BalarkaSen It will please you to know that my motivational example for introducing rings will have a slight geometric leaning (integer points on a circle with the square root of an integer as radius)
 
8:47 PM
@TobiasKildetoft That's fair, I'm supposed to start a "first" course on Algebra (in my final undergrad. year!), which will be a free module (ha) as far as I'm concerned
 
@ÍgjøgnumMeg Ahh, this is a second year course
 
@Tobias our course went like this: monoids (though we only proved trivial facts), basic stuff on groups, rings (though we really did mostly Gauss's lemma), fields / Galois theory, then groups again including Sylow and solvablity, and then applications of Galois theory
 
@LeakyNun I feel like my brain just can't cope with algebra. I felt the same shitty way when learning algebraic geometry two years back from an actual reading course.
 
though it covers about the same material that I saw in my first year (except the representation theory of finite groups that will come at the end)
 
@TobiasKildetoft Ah
 
8:49 PM
@BalarkaSen do you know the Galois correspondence?
 
Funnily enough, we did more module and ring theory in my advanced linear algebra course than in my intro abstract algebra course
 
I do, yeah
 
@MatheiBoulomenos Yeah, not much that can be said about monoids without going deep into Green's relations or something like that
 
@MatheiBoulomenos We didn't even formally talk about vector spaces in our Linear Algebra course!!!!!!!
 
@BalarkaSen what exactly about Galois theory do you want to learn?
 
8:50 PM
@ÍgjøgnumMeg wait, what? what did you do in your lineaer algebra course
 
@PyRulez It looks as though we only have weak lower bounds on Tree(3), not the actual value or upper bound expressions. What math can we use to determine if some number is larger than it? — benzene Aug 16 at 19:12
@benzene the third note has some upper bounds. We don't have tight upper bounds, but we do have upper bounds. I listed some, in fact. — PyRulez Aug 16 at 19:13
 
@MatheiBoulomenos It was called "linear algebra" but I'd have described it more as "drawing lines"
 
@MatheiBoulomenos Presumably linear equations and matrices (that tends to be the things done many places)
 
@TobiasKildetoft Exactly, I'm at a very "applied" focussed university so there's 0 focus on pure subjects, only the barebones
 
8:51 PM
I'm glad I took the linear algebra course I did. It really made me love abstract algebra
 
@MatheiBoulomenos There was actually one module in the UK universitätsreife that introduced very basic group theory
But because I did badly in those exams (had a girlfriend and 0 maturity) I ended up at a university where the main focus is on statistics hahaha
 
@LeakyNun There's nothing specific, I just want to learn it thoroughly. There's a chunk of stuff I don't know in Morandi's book, eg.
 
@BalarkaSen I see
 
@ÍgjøgnumMeg so you mean like in high school? That's really cool, we only did boring stuff like calculus or linear algebra in $\Bbb R ^3$ in my country's equivalent of high school
 
@MatheiBoulomenos Yeah, basically, Abitur-level, there was one tiny bit of group theory in one of the modules and I got really interested in it and then I watched a documentary on Fermat's Last Theorem and found out about Algebraic Number Theory
@MatheiBoulomenos And now the majority of my time spent at university has been self-studying algebra and number theory alongside the boring crap that my uni teaches
 
8:56 PM
@ÍgjøgnumMeg I actually considered the original faulty proof of FLT as another possible motivation for the introduction of rings, but it seemed to get a bit too technical to explain
 
@ÍgjøgnumMeg wow, that's really cool. Sucks that your university is so applied. I have to take 3 applied courses, so I feel your pain
 
@TobiasKildetoft Funny you should say that, my undergraduate dissertation is actually on Kummer's resolution of that faulty proof
 
@ÍgjøgnumMeg Well, partial resolution
 
@TobiasKildetoft You mean the false assumption that every integral extension of Z is a UFD?
 
@TobiasKildetoft Yeah partial resolution hahaha
 
8:57 PM
@Tobias @ÍgjøgnumMeg we did that this week as a motivation in my algebraic number theory course! Cool stuff, though we only sketched the argument
 
@BalarkaSen Well, just the cyclotomic ones
 
Er, yeah
 
@MatheiBoulomenos Yeah, that is where I remember seeing it first as well
(in algebraic number theory)
 
Kummer's (partial) resolution involves working with a unique factorization of ideals, IIRC
 
@MatheiBoulomenos The definition of "regular prime" seems weirdly unmotivated when you first read the statement of the proof until you hear about class groups
@MatheiBoulomenos At least it did for me
 
8:59 PM
@ÍgjøgnumMeg yup, it's a really weird condition
 
@ÍgjøgnumMeg How do you even define regular prime without that? Using Bernoulli numbers?
 
@TobiasKildetoft No what I mean is, it seems like a weird condition to put on a class of primes until you realise why you need the condition, if you know what I mean
 
I forgot what a regular prime is
 
@ÍgjøgnumMeg But if you have a group associated to a prime, then it seems very natural to me to ask whether the prime divides the order of its own group
 
@BalarkaSen a prime that is coprime to the order of the class group of the pth cyclotomic extension
@TobiasKildetoft Yes but at the time of reading I didn't know how the class group was associated to the problem in question
 
9:01 PM
ahh
 
which is why it seemed like a weirdly arbitrary condition to have
 
@Tobias does group cohomology also have applications in pure finite group theory? I'm taking a seminar right now and we mostly focus on number theory stuff apart from the homological algebra machinery
 
@TobiasKildetoft @MatheiBoulomenos Thanks for the discussion, gotta run!
 
@ÍgjøgnumMeg Ah, right, hm.
 
@MatheiBoulomenos Sure, for one thing it measured extensions
But I never did much group cohomology on its own (it does show up here and there, though usually more generally as Ext groups)
 
9:04 PM
@TobiasKildetoft I know about the interpretation of $H^1$ and $H^2$ in terms of extensions. I was just wondering if you can prove some interesting lemmas using that
 
@MatheiBoulomenos As I said, I mostly come across it in the more general setting of Ext groups, and where the representations themselves are the objects of interest
 
I wonder what the hecker reguarity means if I think of the class group as the first K-group of $\text{Spec} \mathcal{O}_K$.
 
I know nothing about $K$-groups, unfortunately
But I heard you can use it to prove that $\mathbb Z$ is a Dedekind ring, which sounds hilarious
 
Me neither, but I mean, like, class group classifies 1-dimensional line bundles on $\text{Spec} \, \mathcal{O}_K$.
 
Oh, so it's isomorphic to the Picard group?
 
9:07 PM
Ah yes.
Fractional ideals of a Dedekind domain R are exactly 1-dimensional projective R-modules
I think
Then Serre-Swan this
 
Well, I'm used to define the Picard group of a ring using invertible modules, then you don't need to invoke Serre-Swan. But I guess that doesn't work for non-affine schemes
I guess that definition is non-standard, I just know it from some exercises I did
 
I think invertible modules are rank 1 locally free
Also I mean Serre-Swan is just a statement about bundles over compact Hausdorff spaces X and projective modules over C(X)
I was just making an analogy there
(Since mSpec C(X) is homeomorphic to X, the correct analogy extends between Spec R and R)
 
No, there's Serre-Swan in algebraic geometry, too
 
Oh, something like between locally free sheaves and projective modules?
 
@Balarka I think it's something like vector bundles are exactly sheaves where the global sections of the sheaf are projective modules over the the projective sections of the scheme
I'm missing a lot of conditions, I guess
 
9:22 PM
mutters some words about stacks
and about schemes or something
 
schemes are a lot easier than stacks!
 
Seeing a conversation of algebraic geometric makes me kinda afraid asking something about numeric..
 
I mean I dunno either of those words
Wow you starred and unstarred me
Emotional rollercoaster, that
 
I am sorry, I wasn't sure what staring exactly does.
 
@MatheiBoulomenos Ah
 
9:28 PM
On the right side though I saw the comment: "A lizard is a scaled cat." which I found funny, so I invested.
 
I wish I knew more algebraic geometry, it's really cool
 
Me too.
 
Definitely seems pretty sick. But yeah gotta go do the better subject (for now): algebraic topology
See you!
 
nooooo, and he is gone.
 
*yeees
 
9:32 PM
Whenever I want to do mathematics, I feel like just looking at it and understand as much as a visitor of an art gallery understands by looking at paintings..
More like someone who enjoys looking at stuff, but is unable to do something by himself..
 
@MatheiBoulomenos Hello ! :D
 
@KasmirKhaan hello
 
@MatheiBoulomenos wanted to thank you again ! :D
I did understand orbit stab theorem and solved one cool question with it
 
@BalarkaSen Why is $\mathcal O(-2)$ the blowup of the cone?
 
proved that groups of oder p^2 are abelian
 
9:34 PM
Sure, I like explaining math to others, as long as it's algebra
 
p prime =P
haha you are good man :D
Am gonna start with sylow theorem tonight :)
 
Sylow theorems really show how powerful group actions are
 
nice =p well i spend alot of time trying to make sense why we introduced the notion of an action
when all i had to do is keep reading ><
 
@MatheiBoulomenos They are also about as general as one could hope for arbitrary groups
 
@MikeMiller By cone, you mean the thing cut out by $xy = z^2$ in $\Bbb P^2$?
 
9:36 PM
I'm thinking the argument should be something like this. One can pick three appropriately chosen independent holomorphic vector fields on $\Bbb P^1$, and send $(p, \xi)$ to $(\xi(v_1(p)), \xi(v_2(p)), \xi(v_3(p))$. I think with appropriately chosen $v_i$ this will satisfy eg $w_3^2 = w_1 w_2$.
@BalarkaSen Sure, iso to $x^2 + y^2 = z^2$.
(Recall $\mathcal O(-2) = T^*\Bbb P^1$.)
 
one question guys :D , is there a situation when we use the orbit stab theorem like it stands?
i mean direct usage
 
@MatheiBoulomenos Since if we ask for the group to have subgroups for any pair of primes, or complements for each prime, it will be solvable
 
elements of X = summation_x in R |G (x) |
Or the class equation |G| = Z(G) + summation x_R [G ;Z (x) ]
i used this now just to prove that if group has order p^2 then it is abelian,are they more stuff ?
 
You can show that any p-group has a non-trivial center
and it's also used in the proofs of the Sylow theorems
 
aha nice =p
all righty then , ill keep reading more :D
 
9:43 PM
There's a proof that every finite division ring is commutative, but that involves a little bit more than the class equation (namely cyclotomic polynomials)
 
@MatheiBoulomenos btw do you teach algebra? forgot to ask :D
 
I don't. I'm just an undergrad student
 
@MikeMiller If you blowup $X$ at $p$ that's a subspace of $X \times \Bbb P^2$ with equations like $x_i u_j = x_j u_i$ where $u_i$ are homogeneous coordinates for $\Bbb P^2$ and $x_i$ are coordinates for $X$. Working that out explicitly should tell you something, I guess. I am trying to see the picture.
 
Nice :d
We dont do galois in undergrad courses
 
We do it in the third semester, but you don't have to take it
 
9:45 PM
If you blowup, the exceptional divisor gets a natural $O(-1)$ over it as a normal bundle neighborhood. Somehow the local structure of the cone makes it $O(-1) \otimes O(-1)$.
Strange
(I think your idea is better)
So you get a cylinder $\Bbb P^1 \times \Bbb C$ (as intuition tells you after you desingularize) but with a twist on $\Bbb P^1 \times \{0\}$
 
@BalarkaSen $X \times \Bbb P^1$ I think
Keep in mind the blowup of A^2 at 0 should be O(-1) by definition, I think
 
Blowup of A^n lives in A^n x P^(n-1). In this case you are blowing up the cone, which lives inside A^3, does it not?
You are really blowing up (0, 0, 0) in A^3
 
sorry yes
 
The expert algebraic geometer has arrived so I should not be needed anymore
 
Never mind, Balarka.
 
9:51 PM
lol
 
17 mins ago, by Mike Miller
@BalarkaSen Why is $\mathcal O(-2)$ the blowup of the cone?
I posted some thoughts above.
 
You're blowing up the vertex of the standard cone in $\Bbb C^3$?
 
yes
 
And thinking of that as a line bundle over the exceptional $\Bbb P^1$?
My intuition says that should be a trivial bundle.
 
I want to think of it as such. I hadn't seen how though.
 
9:54 PM
@Ted Apparently it's not
 
Because the equation cutting it out is homogeneous, I have a map to the normal cone?
Whose projectivization is the exceptional divisor. OK.
 
The exceptional fiber is the nonsingular conic.
 
Somehow you get a further O(-1) tensored to the normal nbhd of the exceptional divisor after the blowup
 
I should be able to give a nowhere zero section of that line bundle.
 
I'm doing exercise 1. The equivariant picture is why I think it's O(-2).
 
9:55 PM
I think it's because the family of lines on the cone that passes through the origin are inherently twisty
 
In fact why I'm 100% certain it is.
 
Quote: "If $X$ is a space having a countable basis, then any discrete subspace $A$ of $X$ must be countable." What exactly does this mean? Does it mean that if $A$ is a subset such that its subspace topology is discrete, then $A$ must be a countable set?
 
I don't know any GIT.
Yes, @user193319.
 
@TedShifrin Thanks!
 
@Ted Neither do I. This is about a Z/2 action. :)
 
9:58 PM
I keep thinking about the real blowup with the real cone, which doesn't help at all. Mobius strip $\otimes$ Mobius strip is trivial :S
 
To resolve that singularity blow up the origin of A^2. You get O(-1) with the involution given fiberwise by -1. This carries a map to O(-2) invariant under the action.
This should be equivalent IMO to the blowup of A^2/+-1 = cone at the singular point
In fact I think there should be some easy statement like "A map of varieties that induces a map of tangent cones induces a map on blowups"
 
I see ... So my nowhere-zero section in fact fails to be defined at two points. So it will have to have two zeroes.
It's pulling back $\mathscr O(-1)$ to the conic and that has degree $-2$.
Well, that's pretty much right, @MikeM.
 
which would construct the desired projection
Ohhh, I see
We just define it by hand and what it does on P^{n-1} should be what it does on the tangent cone
 
Hello!! Suppose that the plane P contains the points A, B, C. Then we have that $\vec{OA}$ and $\vec{BC}$ are on the plane, or not?
Then is $\vec{OA}\times \vec{BC}$ perpendicular to the plane P?
 
@Ted What was your section?
 
10:13 PM
@MaryStar yes, if the origin is on the plane
if OA and BC are on the plane and they are not parallel or antiparallel then yes OA x BC is perpendicular to the plane P
 
@LeakyNun It is not given, so we don't know that, do we?
 
@MaryStar we don't
 
I want to check which of the following is perpendicular to the plane P:
1) $\vec{OA}\times \vec{BC}$ (which is not)
2) $\vec{AB}-\vec{AC}$
3) $\vec{OA}\times\vec{OB}-\vec{OA}\times\vec{OC}$
4) $\vec{OA}\times\vec{BC}-\vec{OB}\times\vec{BC}$

I think 2 is not, because it is parallel to the plane, isn't it?
About the other two I don't really know. Could you give me a hint? @LeakyNun
 
3 is just OAxCB
4 is BAxBC which is perpendicular
 
Sorry, @Balarka, I got a phone call.
 
10:22 PM
No worries
 
I was thinking about just slicing the cone with $z=1$. But this fails at the two points $[1,\pm i,0]\in C \cong \Bbb P^1$.
 
Ah we have the following:
3) $\vec{OA}\times\vec{OB}-\vec{OA}\times\vec{OC}=\vec{OA}\times (\vec{OB}-\vec{OC})=\vec{OA}\times (-\vec{BO}-\vec{OC})=-\vec{OA}\times \vec{BC}$
4) $\vec{OA}\times\vec{BC}-\vec{OB}\times\vec{BC}=(\vec{OA}-\vec{OB})\times\vec{BC}=-(\vec{AO}-\vec{OB})\times\vec{BC}=-\vec{AB}\times\vec{BC}$

right? @LeakyNun
 
yes
 
Great!! Thank you!! :-) @LeakyNun
 
@Daminark: Are the planes all stacked up over O'Hare?
 
10:28 PM
So I think this monster is exactly cut out by $x^2 + y^2 = z^2$ and $u^2 + v^2 = w^2$ from $\Bbb P^2 \times \Bbb P^2$, @Ted.
x, y, z and u, v, w homogeneous coordinates of each of the copies.
And you're slicing this with?
 
You're missing the blow-up constraints?
Hmm, wait ... how did you turn the affine cone into the projective curve in the first $\Bbb P^2$?
 
No, this is after the blowup. Simplifying the equations/appropriate change of coordinates should tell you that
Sorry, I meant $\Bbb A^3 \times \Bbb P^2$.
Sorry.
 
OHHHHHH ...
I don't believe you can unlink the coordinates completely.
No, it looks right.
OK, at any rate, I was just slicing with $z=1$ in $\Bbb A^3$.
 
I thought so, but was checking the calculations at any rate.
@TedShifrin Ah.
 
hi
 
10:41 PM
heya Meow
 
11:15 PM
Hallo
@TedShifrin sorry, I was out, and I haven't heard of anything to that effect but it wouldn't surprise me
 
@TedShifrin for real inner-product spaces we have the result $\langle x,y \rangle = \dfrac 12 (\|x+y\|^2 - \|x\|^2 - \|y\|^2)$, can we generalize this result for complex inner-product spaces?
 
Sure, you get the real and imaginary part of the metric in terms of the norms
 
$\langle x, \ y \rangle = \frac{1}{4} \left(\|x + y \|^2 - \|x-y\|^2 + i\|x+iy\|^2 - i\|x-iy\|^2\right)$
 
$$\begin{array}{cl}
& \dfrac12(\|x+y\|^2 - \|x\|^2 - \|y\|^2) \\
= & \dfrac12(\langle x+y, x+y \rangle - \langle x,x \rangle - \langle y,y \rangle) \\
= & \dfrac12(\langle x, x+y \rangle + \langle y, x+y \rangle - \langle x,x \rangle - \langle y,y \rangle) \\
= & \dfrac12(\overline{\langle x+y, x \rangle} + \overline{\langle x+y, y \rangle} - \langle x,x \rangle - \langle y,y \rangle) \\
= & \dfrac12(\overline{\langle x, x \rangle} + \overline{\langle y, x \rangle} + \overline{\langle x, y \rangle} + \overline{\langle y, x \rangle} - \langle x,x \rangle - \langle y,y \rangle) \\
@MatheiBoulomenos thanks
 
11:28 PM
does there exist a value of c such that the julia set induced is exactly equal to the mandelbrot set?
 
Hhello handsome ppl
 
11:56 PM
(from here)
"We can find a closed subset $F_j$ of $E_j$ with $\mu^*(E_j-F_j) \le \varepsilon / 2^j$"
what if the only closed subsets of $E_j$ have zero measure, say $E_j = \Bbb R \setminus \Bbb Q$?
wait, that's false, I think there are closed subsets with non-zero measure
 
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