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05:00 - 21:0021:00 - 00:00

5:52 AM
Good morning
 
gbn
6:23 AM
Howdy
 
6:36 AM
Morning
Here is one of the beasts from that product I was talking about yesterday.
And beast 2
Can I go to a corner and weep a bit silently?
And the schools are shouting about bad performance.
 
6:53 AM
morning
 
Morning @Marian
Morning @AndriyM
Morning @gbn
 
gbn
@hot2use Looks similar to the reporting queries I see on a Dynamics Nav system
Yours is way more complex ofc
 
 
1 hour later…
8:26 AM
Morning
 
8:37 AM
Morning @McNets
 
 
3 hours later…
11:26 AM
@hot2use I can't wait for the day when I can stop talking about functions.
 
gbn
@sp_BlitzErik Have you tried "UDFs anonymous" yet?
The first part of fixing you is to admit you have a problem of course
 
@sp_BlitzErik is it right if I state: UDFs break parallelism
@gbn Ha! Hard to achieve if it's not your code.
 
@gbn no money in that
@hot2use yes, completely. I have a bunch of blogs on it. If you want I can dig up the links.
 
@sp_BlitzErik I think it was along the line of: ...each value has to be evaluated and thus parallelism does not happen....
 
11:46 AM
yeah, they also run once per row
except in some edge cases
 
12:37 PM
ahem
 
what do you want, fetus?
 
@JoeObbish Good day @JoeObbish
 
functions are an elegant weapon for a more civilized age
 
gbn
@JoeObbish Only for shooting yourself in the foot. Elegantly.
3
 
1:18 PM
I second that.
 
If my SP consists of a single SELECT statement, is there a difference between specifying OPTION (RECOMPILE) in the SELECT statement and defining the proc itself WITH RECOMPILE?
I mean, is one way substantially better/worse than the other?
 
1:33 PM
@AndriyM yes
with RECOMPILE in the proc you don't get a plan saved to the cache
with RECOMPILE at the statement level the plan is saved to the cache
 
If this statement is only run in the proc and it's recompiled every time, I guess there's no point in caching the plan. So in this case OPTION (RECOMPILE) is worse than WITH RECOMPILE in the proc, correct?
 
Caching the plan is useful in case something goes wrong
like the procedure suddenly starts taking a long time to complete
 
That's a really good point. Only problem is, I wouldn't know how to retrieve the plan in the first place, not mention what to do with it. But I certainly need to remember about this aspect.
Thanks Joe
 
gbn
@JoeObbish Unless, say, parameter sniffing has kicked in with an atypical plan
 
parameter sniffing won't happen with RECOMPILE
 
gbn
1:43 PM
Agreed, but you said "Caching the plan is useful in case something goes wrong"
or do you mean OPTION (RECOMPILE) leaves the plan in cache, but it is discarded on next use and a new plan generated?
which is how I understood it happens in the olden days
Hang on, other way around
- statement level, discarded after use as per the docs
 
gbn
then we have a problem
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sql/t-sql/queries/hints-transact-sql-query
"RECOMPILE
Instructs the SQL Server Database Engine to discard the plan generated for the query after it executes,"
 
that's worded in a really weird way, to the point of being wrong
makes it sound like I won't get a new plan
anyway, easy to test if anyone cares
 
My SELECT statement is on a table that is very frequently updated. I'm guessing recompile will be triggered by the multiple updates anyway. I'll probably try first without recompile hints of any kind and see how it goes.
(And by updates I mean updates, inserts and deletes.)
 
gbn
2:02 PM
@AndriyM Is it a SELECT by primary key or unique key? Or something more variable (1 row this time, 1million rows next time?)
 
2:15 PM
@gbn The table is a kind of queue. Rows appear, get processed, then removed (data moved to another table). Plus each location will be working with its own subset of rows. At this point it's very unlikely that the table can have even more than 1,000 rows (total) at any given time.
So the principal filter will be on the Location attribute. Some other filters will be used as well, but they won't affect the number of rows significantly.
 
gbn
2:29 PM
then recompile probably isn't needed
Main filter on Location, residual predicate on the other columns blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/craigfr/2006/07/07/seek-predicates
 
2:45 PM
yo yo yo
 
3:31 PM
is there a way to view question views by day?
 
@Zane yo
 
BCP simulation today and my whole staff is gone... Gonna be a long one
 
so it's more like staff simulation day
 
Right. Luckily I've got tons of scripts that automate most of the fail over since you know... I'm lazy.
 
what craziness are you up to?
bcp data out to a server and fail over to it?
 
3:47 PM
@sp_BlitzErik Depending on the application we already have the data synced up from Prod Via either Mirroring or Log Shipping. So for the most part we just break those. Apps connect, packages run, or reports are ran against the BCP instance once DB's are online. Then that's pretty much it. We re fire up log shipping and resync the mirrored DB's and good to go.
 
uch, sounds like work
 
Nothing special really.
@sp_BlitzErik It's incredibly easy with the 3 people we're suppose to have.
 
yeah, but i just assume all ha/dr is withcraft
 
4:07 PM
You lot are on fire with the flags. Keep it up.
 
been trying to stay on the review queue
 
I'll go flag some of Erik's comments
 
i'll have you drawn and quartered by mini ponies
 
I won't flag the gif one
2
 
you should upvote that
 
4:11 PM
already did
 
just once?
 
I haven't yet created a sock puppet to upvote your comments more than once
 
is it a coincidence that max and lamak have both been absent
i smell romance
or murder
 
4:28 PM
i only noticed them not being here because i get two less upvotes than usual
 
Want me to do the thing?
 
4:44 PM
@jcolebrand i blogged about this question trying to get the reversal badge on it, and my scheme is failing miserably
that's why i was curious about views over time -- that thing has been getting lit up today
 
There you go, dinged and bumped
Maybe you can get it today if we all .. ahem .. use the system wisely to reward appropriate behavior
 
you are the man, even in cuneiform
all i can hope is that people use their best judgement
2
 
That sounds like a life lesson
 
you could put that on a dr phil mug
 
> having judgment so poor that you spell "judgment" incorrectly
 
4:53 PM
> turning into lamak when lamak is gone
 
isn't lamak an MVP?
 
idk
i don't keep track of such frivolity~
 
you should
 
Max says hey and he'll be home shortly (next week)
 
you could have Brent activate the MVP signal
 
4:57 PM
@JoeObbish you mean like a twitter share?
Impossible
 
I think they have secret meetings and stuff
 
it's been broadcast pretty well
perhaps i'll need to resort to bribery
 
@sp_BlitzErik Probably
 
you could offer bounties for upvotes
 
that's probably against some site rule
 
4:59 PM
only if you get caught
 
@JoeObbish would be easy to catch the trend quickly
 
might not be against the rules
 
"Unnatural voting patterns" are something easily caught by any site moderator for that given site
 
after all you're losing rep to do it
 
Pardon me while I step out of the room :p
 
4:59 PM
grabs a hammer
 
@ThomasWard ahem
<-- blue
:p
 
@jcolebrand you're right.
i wasn't talking to you though :)
 
I can overlook it to allow a single new badge
 
mmm
 
@ThomasWard I know it was teasing, I was just trying to be funny too :p
This is one of my great downfalls in life. I'm not actually funny.
Sigh.
 
5:00 PM
just saying, there's a pattern - allow it once, sets a precedent for it to happen.
@jcolebrand not your fault today
it's mine actually
 
@jcolebrand but you have the monkey going for you
 
ERR:NO_COFFEE
 
I'm all out of banana cream pies tho
 
it's only a matter of time until they turn on you
 
@sp_BlitzErik Fortunately we can have naptime with milk and cookies
which sounds like a remarkably good idea as an adult
 
5:06 PM
@jcolebrand What's the history behind that picture anyway?
did some angry 13 year old make it?
 
@JoeObbish oh god, I have no idea
it showed up in some chat about 4-6 years ago
I thought it was funny, so I used it
i suspect in the Tavern on the Meta

 Tavern on the Meta

MY GOD, IT'S FULL OF STARS AND BACKLOG! General friendly chit-...
That room has been around FOREVER
 
if i click on that will i join my dozenth chat by accident?
can i just put my password in here?
do you need a credit card?
double clicks hyperlinks
 
It's on a different server to be fair
and I'm in like 15 chats
well, I'm sure it's the same server. A different hostname
 
@sp_BlitzErik to be safe you should open the link through SSMS
 
is this chat available on postgres 10?
 
5:08 PM
@sp_BlitzErik 9, but only with slony.
 
DAMMIT
sudo apt-get chat
 
Command not found 'chat'
 
5:59 PM
@sp_BlitzErik You could write a plugin for that ;)
At the moment, I'm fighting dead tuples. Pretty resilient they are.
 
is that worse than dead toenails?
 
Much worse
 
how does a tuple die, anyway?
 
If you are fighting with them, are they really dead then?
 
we have a lot of dead voters, so you know...
 
6:45 PM
Hmm getting invalid parameter while trying to autofix orphaned users...
derp. Log in is genuinely missing
 
i hope it owns a bunch of agent jobs, too
 
luckily it was just web apps.
Who cares about them anyway right?
 
7:00 PM
buncha clowns really
 
So .. uh
Maybe you guys can shed light
 
First time for everything
 
Because I can't figure out why the ()@#*$ my SRE team decided to rewrite the entirety of a known-working LTR release creation process. Because we're building a branch from January this year to provide an LTR to one of our special clients and ...
Since January I've rewritten our build system (delivered in like June) and it redid EVERYTHING. I reduced our intermediate build size from 70GB to 4GB (including source repo and git history and everything) and the build time (on my machine) from 40m - 8m.
 
i already have no idea
 
So, because I've gone and spoiled everyone making life like 1000x better, on a process I've said for four years was wrong, but which I was told this isn't the time to pay down that technical debt (which was only )*(@#$) written 4 years ago, by a non-developer) for 4 years
SO because I've gone and spoiled the team, he just wanted the OLD output to match the NEW output
Instead of understanding the antiquated build system
I swear, I'm gonna either pop a blood vessel or strangle someone
or both
 
7:09 PM
if you go to jail, can i have your points?
 
No, what's really gonna happen is I'm going to reclaim the entirety of the deploy process and take that control out of everyone's hands and perfect an auto deploy to AWS and internal servers.
With live rolling no-downtime updates
Because I can do that, and a team of four people working non-stop for four months can't.
well, non-stop in a 9-5 sense obvs :p
 
yesterday, by Joe Obbish
I must be in the wrong chat room
3
 
Nah, you are just kindred spirits and can appreciate devs doing things in the least responsible way possible
 
@sp_BlitzErik I feel you there homie.
 
I'm not a simple dev. I'm not a DBA. I'm also not a network guy. I don't have a specialty, except in reducing complex systems to simple ones.
 
7:11 PM
@jcolebrand and they haven't told anyone/you that they are going to do that? I would expect a 4-man 4-months project would be associated with a task/issue in a JIRA or similar system.
 
@ypercubeᵀᴹ Oh they've told everyone that's their goal. And they haven't delivered a prototype for demo
 
@jcolebrand this is good work that must be done.
 
i can sympathize. a long time ago i re-wrote an ugly process that detached, zipped and copied mdf and ldf, and then deleted them as part of an archival to just take a backup and drop them. i heard it got changed back to the old one because people found it harder to run restore commands than to attach with the gui.
 
I don't need four months to automate machine setup, machine startup with deployment of files, testing the new IP address to make sure the site comes up, then rolling it into the LB, then repeating the process.
 
time to go deadlift the pain away
 
7:13 PM
I maybe need 2-3
 
@sp_BlitzErik hahahahahaha
Yeah. That sounds about right.
 
7:24 PM
Anyway, I guess my point is that I'd have a hard time working with people who aren't people like you all
Other than @202_accepted
 
@sp_BlitzErik Glad I can be of service.
 
7:39 PM
@PaulWhite No review queue, but if you see the new review queue dropdown /tools is now available.
 
@bluefeet have you done any query tuning since the class?
 
@sp_BlitzErik nope <sadface>
hoping to next week
 
@sp_BlitzErik I have a demo request
 
@bluefeet aw man, don't forget everything!
@JoeObbish sup?
 
@sp_BlitzErik I shall do my best. Or I'll just email you a bunch of questions
 
7:48 PM
for the precon you need to work "Pablo Blanco" into one of your demos
 
@bluefeet that's cool too
@JoeObbish consider it done
 
I will give you a 5/5 rating
or however it works
do I even get to give a rating?
 
I'd imagine so
 
well I couldn't vote in the pass elections
doesn't seem like a very democratic organization
 
I thought you could and Pablo couldn't
 
8:00 PM
I couldn't vote for my preferred candidate
it was a sham election
 
PASSezuela
 
yes
also
 
was there more to that also?
 
@bluefeet Yeah I saw
 
do i get to see this new stuff in 1600 points or do i need to get a blue name in here?
 
8:20 PM
@sp_BlitzErik Mod-only preview at the moment, coming to the whole network soon
40
Q: New top bar is coming to the Stack Exchange network

Joe Friend Updated timeline: Done changes rolled out on meta.se and to Mods on all sites on Monday (9/18) Assuming no significant issues are discovered we will roll out to all sites within the next couple weeks I'm the new product manager for the DAG team. I’m excited to announce that the...

 
yeah, caught that the other day when you posted it
something about changes
 
Oh OK well it's the same thing - small changes based on feedback
 
kicks an acoustic guitar over
 
@sp_BlitzErik Also: yes you'll get the tools menu when you hit 10k
Not delete/undelete review queues though because no one gets those
On account of their continuing existence failure
 
that sounds like too much work
 
8:23 PM
The exciting thing about 10k is mostly being able to see deleted posts
 
operation query bucks is in the final stage, btw
 
Excitement is building
 
Chris Travers is the latest to reach 10K. Just a few seconds ago!
 
downvotes a bunch of stuff
 
@PaulWhite everyone will be a mod after the revolution
@PaulWhite you can't search for them though
my preferred feature is the chat moderation requests
instead of moderating I go to the room to view the drama
it'll be a good way for Erik to accidentally join chat rooms
 
8:31 PM
@JoeObbish Yes I can. You can search for your own deleted posts, or use the tools to see recently deleted and undeleted items.
 
that's not at all what I want
I want to view the best deleted posts of all time
like the 10k database guy
 
So use SEDE
 
I don't know what that is
 
224
Q: Database schema documentation for the public data dump and SEDE

Stu ThompsonStack Exchange releases "data dumps" of all its publicly available content roughly every three months via archive.org, and also makes that information queryable over the Internet at the Stack Exchange Data Explorer (SEDE). Over time, as new features and other bits of data are introduced to Stack ...

 
oh, yeah that won't work for me
 
8:35 PM
a deleted post HOF might be a little mean spirited for the network
but i'd enjoy it
 
Wait for the revolution then Joe
 
two days in a row i'm gonna just miss mortar boarding
 
@PaulWhite but 'Deleted posts are not present' in SEDE
 
DATEADD(DAY, -1, THE_REV)
2
 
after the revolution you won't be able to delete posts
as it should be
 
8:37 PM
they will live on forever as shame shrines
 
Erik, do you guys ever open MS tickets?
 
we have no production servers, so no
though we do sometimes ask employees about known issues etc.
 
I will tell you all about mine
I'll try to be entertaining
 
you can just invite me to the call
 
@bluefeet Oh that's true, there's only limited metadata in PostsWithDeleted.
 
8:39 PM
i'll try to be sober
 
Without the SO database remote hack anyway
 
@PaulWhite yeah we give some just not all info
 
hm
aren't question IDs sequential?
if so just find all of the missing ones
 
PostIDs
questions and answers are in the same table
 
hmm
 
8:42 PM
separated by posttypeid
1 = q, 2 = a
 
probably still doable
 
@sp_BlitzErik don't give away our secrets
 
I have an idea for a new BOU tool
the hall of shame
only for 10k users
 
if you're not careful, we'll make a BOU sock puppet account
who's answering? no one knows! are they right? TOTAL GAMBLE!
 
not true
 
8:43 PM
@JoeObbish but why?
 
it'll always be Brent answering
@bluefeet I learned more than I thought I would from the 10k database classic
 
@bluefeet you guys do a great job of documenting your secrets :)
 
concatenation is a sneakier operator than I thought
 
how so?
 
I didn't see a TOP or a start up filter, so I thought that it would always do both input tables
but it doesn't
 
8:53 PM
oh, you meant the query plan operator
 
I would describe the plan to you in words, but, you know
well, yes, I said operator
unfortunately I don't really have anything interesting to say here
there's a semijoin involved
I think that's what is doing it
 
for some reason i thought you had something weird going on with string concatenation or something
 
couldn't figure out why someone would do AND NOT (NOT EXISTS ...)
I suspect that I'm actually the one who did that though
 
I just can't remember doing it
string concatenation is the worst
 
8:54 PM
whenever someone writes AND NOT i throw a fit
 
I did get to tell someone to do it on the client though
"I want to use FOR XML PATH"
NO
also, can you believe this? "You can perform this action again in 3 seconds."
@sp_BlitzErik how many AND NOTs do you think that I can fit into a single query?
 
you are exceptionally chatty today
@JoeObbish infinite, really
 
bet it's not infinite
 
05:00 - 21:0021:00 - 00:00

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