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1:39 AM
@DavidPostill I forgot to tell you thanks earlier by the way... just remember sir!!
 
1:51 AM
@Bob: Multithreaded CSS in the works for Firefox: hacks.mozilla.org/2017/08/…
> It takes advantage of modern hardware, parallelizing the work across all of the cores in your machine. This means it can run up to 2 or 4 or even 18 times faster.
[read: i9-7980XE 😛]
 
Bob
@bwDraco Ya, Stylo's been discussed in the Nightly blog for a while
 
The way it's designed, it's supposed to have nearly perfect scaling with core count.
> CSS style computation becomes what’s called an embarrassingly parallel problem ...
 
Bob
@bwDraco Eh... it should scale DOM nodes but not for operations on each node.
which is still great, mind
Also, depending on how they implement the work stealing, you'll hit a limit somewhere where the contention caused by adding more cores ends up starving some cores
Though that's probably in the region of 16+
wait, they were stealing fairly large chunks, right? that should mitigate it
 
It's a work in progress and an active area of research.
The best part? This lets web browsers take advantage of the new breed of manycore consumer processors that Intel and AMD have been coming out with recently.
Now everyone benefits from extra cores.
I doubt it'll actually max out an i9-7980XE or Threadripper 1950X but this makes 6C+ processors more relevant to the average consumer.
 
Bob
@bwDraco it's probably a bigger advantage on mobile devices
with low-speed cpus
 
2:05 AM
Yup, 8C processors are not unusual in phones.
That would produce a massive gain in performance.
Again...
> or even 18 times faster
It should be obvious what processor this refers to. This sort of near-perfect core scaling in a web browser's rendering engine represents a huge technological advance.
Hit Reload All Tabs and peg 36 hardware threads with just a handful of (complex) web pages open?
The implications are staggering.
 
Rat Poop Sighting at work.
3
 
WTFLOL
"18 times faster" = "we can max out your Core i9-7980XE"
...or so they say.
 
2:22 AM
.... Director wants log in and log out time sheets whut?
 
Regardless, the impact of this new technology cannot be overstated.
@allquixotic, anything to say on this? I think Mozilla is on the verge of a technological breakthrough.
 
Bob
@bwDraco I actually find Rust more interesting
I've said many a time that concurrency is hard
 
Check for race conditions at compile time? That is going to be really useful.
 
Bob
at least without changing your entire paradigm and using a pure language like Haskell
The downside is this assumes Rust itself has no bugs
(hint: they've already found a few of those)
@bwDraco It's not entirely new, but doing it in an accessible way is interesting.
Unfortunately, it's also not 100% -- and it relies on the user following some fairly strict rules
IIRC completely detecting whether concurrency is safe would be equivalent to solving the halting problem
Here, they've managed to solve a subset of the issues with concurrency (mostly revolving around integrity; data corruption), but there's still availability (deadlocks, etc.) to consider
 
2:40 AM
Ever notice how a Linux discussion on an article that uses the word "driver" always devolves into a Windows-Linux out-of-box-support framewar?
flamewar*, though frames may be involved
 
@JourneymanGeek So now you know why they hired a ferocious killing machine with fangs and claws!
 
@jiggunjer linux is simply much better at it
 
Bob
@jiggunjer article comments are ... well ...
 
@Avery debatable, but I meant even if the article isn't about that subject. E.g. it was discussing the possibility of using a stable ABI/API for drivers. Somehow after 10 comments people are calling each other idiots and spamming anecdotes.
every. single. time.
 
Bob
@Avery case in point.
 
2:50 AM
I mean
I'm speaking on a completely practical standpoint here
Everything I wanted to get working on linux worked out of the box, the moment I plugged it
 
Nice anecdote bro.
 
Bob
> spamming anecdotes
 
So half hour driver installs, no digging in device manager
 
Bob
:D
 
@jiggunjer eh, would be happy if you didn't call me bro.
 
2:52 AM
haha sorry. OK.
 
I mean it's a YMMV thing but I never had issues with drivers on linux
 
Well, I have had drives issues in Linux.
 
Bob
Eh. Both work fine for common hardware.
Both fail on (differing subsets of) more esoteric devices.
 
Driver issues in Windows: All the time. Hunt for standalone drivers. Huge, bloated installers. Issues ranging from simple to ibzarre. Lots of troubleshooting guides on Google.
Driver issues in Linux. Rare, but when they happen, oh dear.
 
Well
 
2:56 AM
Windows works. Mostly. Linux just works. Except when it doesnt.
 
Actually I've had one problem with drivers
Nvidia. With optimus.
 
So... I am ssh'ing into a server who has an open reverse ssh tunnel so I can ssh into my work machine and run git.
 
It was painful to get working but the whole concept is very nonsensical anyways so I'll yell at intel
 
You guys probably do it all the time but to me it's like "ooooh magic!!!"
Anyways I'm off to sleep. Feeling sick-ish so I'm skipping work tomorrow.
 
Howdy folks. I'm on 8.1 x64 and the output of echo %path% does not match the contents of system>advanced system settings>advanced>system variables>Path. Any hints?
 
3:01 AM
I wonder if there's a ssh server that's basically always connected to a tunnel and allows others on that tunnel to ssh in
(Usecase: sshing in to house pc which is behind isp grade firewall)
 
Bob
@JoeStavitsky It's the concatenated result of the system path plus the user path
How does it not match?
@Avery I think you're more generally looking for a VPN.
But you could always just have a script that reconnects the tunnel when it drops.
 
@Bob youre right! It does contain what I was looking for, ty!
@Bob, I did not know that!
 
3:19 AM
#Firefox #QuantumCSS "can run up to 2 or 4 or even 18 times faster." Peg the Core i9-7980XE? Oh. My. God. 🤯 https://hacks.mozilla.org/2017/08/inside-a-super-fast-css-engine-quantum-css-aka-stylo/
(If you can't read that emoji, it's U+1F92F SHOCKED FACE WITH EXPLODING HEAD, which requires Unicode 10.0 support.)
 
I think unicode made a mistake including emojis
There isn't a font in the world that can keep up, I think.
 
Twitter has its own emoji font which renders this correctly (at least in a web browser).
 
so why doesn't this chat load that font
 
Windows doesn't support it.
At least not out of the box.
You'll need to install an emoji font that supports Unicode 10.0.
 
I thought you just need the browser to support it, i.e. install into cache or whatever.
similar to pdf I think you can use any font if you embed it right. And Chrome has a pdf reader. So I assumed it could render fonts without the OS helping.
 
Bob
3:26 AM
@bwDraco Eh. Win10 will probably add it in an update. Firefox ships EmojiOne on Win7 but it's probably not updated yet.
@jiggunjer You still need the fonts.
If the website doesn't include the required font, it'll fall back to the browser default (which is usually but not always the OS default)
 
yes the font is just a link in the html, I assumed twitter hosts theirs so a website can always include their font.
 
Bob
That's a terrible assumption.
 
really? If I made a website I'd include a font with good unicode support. I thought this was the norm since I saw google hosting webfonts.
 
Talked to the chairman.
I think I'm stuck in long sleeves and I need to get office shoes :(
@Avery so essentially reverse ssh?
@ThatREDACTEDGuy They hired... a cat?
 
Bob
3:52 AM
@jiggunjer And you'd (probably unnecessarily) reduce website load speed and increase data usage (mobile).
Anyway, the terrible part is assuming you can hotlink Twitter's font.
There's a huge difference between a CDN service that offers free use of common libraries/fonts, vs hotlinking to content you find on some other site.
 
How about using web fonts as a fallback if native fonts can't render a character. Maybe some AJAX api that lets you get just the characters you need? A mixed emoji style is still better than boxes.
 
 
2 hours later…
6:08 AM
I tried installing win10 on a laptop, it doesn't load up.. but I made the usb by putting an iso on the usb with rufus, I wonder if perhaps I should've instead chosen the option in the media creation tool to put on usb.. i'll give it a try and see if the same thing happens
 
 
1 hour later…
7:14 AM
@jiggunjer AFAIK twemoji (Twitter's emoji font) is free to download and use
It's on GitHub
 
Bob
@barlop First check/decide if you want a UEFI install or legacy BIOS/CSM install.
 
@Bob would it make a difference to how I make the USB?
 
7:41 AM
@JourneymanGeek bluuuuuuuuurgh
Windows Drivers Vs Linux Drivers can mostly be summed up by: If your driver is missing/doesn't work, you can 1. google for it (windows) or 1. fix it yourself (linux).
or 2. bug the manufacturer (windows) or 2. bug the developer (linux)
Then you realise, for most linux developers, they actually are using the devices they wrote drivers for, and so fixing things makes sense
for windows driver creators, it's generally a device they no longer actively sell, so why should they care?
 
morning
 
how doo
Obviously there is odd outliers in both worlds. I've had devices under linux which will just never work 'correctly' and then magically work under windows by using a 'similar' driver.
 
@djsmiley2k considering the torrent of negative feedback I think they figure they're like
"we don't need 2 1/2 IT guys"
 
8:03 AM
@JourneymanGeek Are the other 1 and 1/2 doing anything useful?
Are you getting all the negative because your the 'new' guy?
 
@barlop rufus lets you choose between gpt or mbr. guess you chose the wrong option? Iso should be fine unless you managed to find a version without bootloader.
 
@JourneymanGeek if so, my advice is try and stick it out for 12 months, that's long enough on a CV that people don't ask why you jumped ship so fast, and then start looking
 
@jiggunjer ok but how does gpt or mbr relate to uefi vs bios?
 
Well, always be looking -- but maybe more proactivately looking at 12m.
 
uefi needs gpt
bios needs mbr
 
8:04 AM
ok
 
Bob
@jiggunjer It does not.
 
ta
heh ok..
@Bob so my question to you then.. was..
 
Bob
Much less on a flash drive which should be formatted as a "superfloppy" without partitions, for maximum compatibility.
 
@Bob ok yes yes Im oversimplifying
 
Bob
@barlop Generally, MCT should work in all cases.
 
8:05 AM
@Bob you wrote "First check/decide if you want a UEFI install or legacy BIOS/CSM install."
 
Bob
Rufus is a bit bleh.
 
my q to you @bob was would it make a difference to how I make the usb?
 
Bob
55 secs ago, by Bob
@barlop Generally, MCT should work in all cases.
 
@JourneymanGeek who is the half?
 
MCT?!!
@Bob what's MCT?
 
8:07 AM
@djsmiley2k iirc @JourneymanGeek is actually the longer serving IT guy dog
 
oh jeez :/
 
Bob
@barlop Media Creation Tool
 
@Bob I think MCT creates media that will boot on that system, so GPT if UEFI, or MBR if BIOS.
 
Bob
@jiggunjer I'll say it again: you don't need GPT for a UEFI boot.
Nor do you need MBR for a BIOS-boot.
 
@Bob yeah I got that, jiggunjer, was spreading misinformation
 
Bob
8:13 AM
UEFI is perfectly happy to boot off a superfloppy-formatted FAT32 removable device.
 
ok, MCT, media creation tool.. yeah I made an ISO with that then used rufus.. perhaps I should've used it directly to make the USB
Do you think a Dell Vostro 1700 laptop would be UEFI? and have an option to go to BIOS mode?
 
Bob
BIOS/CSM is happy to boot off the protective MBR of a UEFI-formatted disk, if it contains the BIOS boot code.
Anyway. For a removable boot disk, and for max compatibility, format as superfloppy, add BIOS boot code, and add UEFI boot files.
Which MCT should do automatically.
Then which way it installs depends on whether you boot it under UEFI mode or CSM mode.
Which depends on what you select in the boot menu.
 
can rufus do that well.. uefi + bios support?
 
Bob
@barlop That's C2D-era. Before UEFI was common. So it's probably legacy BIOS only.
idk, I don't use Rufus.
I'd test, but I need to figure out how to emulate a USB device on libvirt...
 
what do you use when not making a windows usb?
 
Bob
8:17 AM
I used YUMI, once upon a time. It didn't do UEFI at the time.
Now? I haven't done a bare metal install of non-Windows in a while. Not via USB anyway.
Servers, via IPMI media emulation.
 
@Burgi the facilities guy
 
Bob
Desktops run Windows
 
@barlop Rufus works for everything
 
It's 5 AM and I just woke up because I'm sick. I'm sick because I haven't been sleeping well. Yay. 🤢 🤒
Well that and the cold temperature. My ears hurt, my throat hurts, my sinuses hurt, my entire head hurts.
 
@Burgi been around slightly longer than my manager. Facilities chap has been around for quite a while
 
8:19 AM
@JourneymanGeek i'll try MCT directly to USB, and i'll try Rufus with the options like "Add fixes for old BIOSs" and "Use Rufus MBR"
and see if the windows 10 installation gets any further. with any of those methods.
 
@ThatREDACTEDGuy it'll be something tropical and lethal
 
I think it is either sinusitis, the flu, a cold, or me getting old.
 
have you ever tried gandalf win10pe? I find it runs fine but no network access, there may be a fix for that to add drivers with it, but i'm wodnering if there is another win10 pe that has wifi working fine straight away?
 
Bob
@barlop Wait, what's the actual problem?
 
that (about win10pe ) was a question that has nothing to do with the previous discussion
 
8:27 AM
@Bob A protective MBR is part of the GPT. Like a backwards compatibility feature. So BIOS kinda needs MBR, even if it isn't called MBR but 'protective MBR'.
 
protective mbr is not what is meant by MBR
 
Bob
@jiggunjer Now that's just being overly pedantic. It's still a GPT formatted disk. The protective MBR isn't even a real MBR.
It just takes up space and prevents old tools from accidentally wiping the GPT.
It doesn't store any actual partition structure
 
And with MCT a single ISO can't be both a superfloppy and be bios compatible, since a superfloppy is just a filesystem. So MCT should output two types right?
 
Bob
@jiggunjer BIOS boot can boot straight off a 'superfloppy'.
 
TIL BIOS doesn't need a bootsector.
 
8:31 AM
@jiggunjer everything you are saying is wrong
 
@barlop relax I'm discussing with bob.
 
see for example this comment superuser.com/questions/630833/… "BIOS doesn't "support" either MBR or GPT; it's the boot loader that's important. The Windows boot loader is limiting in this respect, but other OSes have no problems booting from GPT on BIOS-based computers"
 
Bob
@jiggunjer BIOS, as a whole, isn't even standardised so it's hard to tell what any given system does.
But most modern ones try a few heuristics to try to find a valid boot sector.
They'll try to detect a MBR-style boot sector ("HDD mode")
 
Anybody know of a good Win10 PE that supports wifi out of the box? I tried gandalf win10 pe but that isn't support wifi out of the box.
 
Bob
8:34 AM
They'll also try to find boot code in the traditional location for floppies: the first sector
A superfloppy puts boot code in the same place IIRC
But yea BIOS just tried to find boot code and then jumps straight in.
UEFI tries to be smarter about it.
Technically you can create a disk such that either can boot.
Windows (BOOTMGR) only supports UEFI and GPT together or BIOS and MBR together.
 
I can't seem to find a good definition of superfloppy. In theory it could have the filesystem start at the first sector, leaving no space for boot code other than whatever the filesystem offers.
 
Bob
But the Windows installation media is one of those 'mixed' disks. And isn't GPT nor MBR.
 
Making it a superfloppy. Interesting. I knew about hybrid MBR/DVD, but I thought you always needed a partition table.
I'll read those links today
 
Bob
@jiggunjer FAT32 has a boot sector at the 0th byte. It's a JMP + NOP: ntfs.com/fat-partition-sector.htm
 
Yea I just read that :D didn't know that.
FAT32 is pretty cool. I think MS still owns it though?
 
Bob
8:39 AM
@jiggunjer Ah, here's the term: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volume_boot_record
I knew what it was but didn't know how to search for it :P
 
I knew ntfs had VBR
 
Bob
> On non-partitioned storage devices, it is the first sector of the device. On partitioned devices, it is the first sector of an individual partition on the device, with the first sector of the entire device being a Master Boot Record (MBR) containing the partition table.
@jiggunjer UEFI requires FAT32, so any superfloppy intended for booting should use FAT32.
Well, it doesn't require FAT32, but FAT is the only one that's definitely supported.
You could, in theory, assume the existence of a NTFS driver ... or provide one yourself via a FAT32 partition.
 
yea I think I read once someone booted from ext3
 
Bob
Hm. This is awkward. I've got a FAT32-formatted superfloppy-style image, but once I attach it via qemu Windows doesn't know what to do with it...
Maybe it's not coming across as removable? bleh.
 
maybe assign it with diskpart
 
Bob
8:47 AM
@jiggunjer nah, it's deteted as a non-removable disk
hm
\o/
that made all the difference
now it's detected as FAT32 :D
@jiggunjer Windows is really weird about removable disks
non-removable must have a GPT or MBR
 
@Bob do you use any WinPE ever?
 
Bob
removable can be superfloppy
removable can have a GPT or MBR, but only the first partition is ever accessible via Win32
@barlop Only to install Windows, or WinRE for recovery.
 
ok
 
Bob
Side note. MCT refuses to write to a non-"removable" disk, even if attached via USB
@barlop why do you need wifi?
 
@Bob it's just useful to be able to boot an OS from USB.. with internet access. to quickly use a computer that otherwise needs some work to fix.
and while I like linux commands, I favour a windows based OS(i'd perhaps use linux if it were a computer running a server, used just to run a server).
I used to use Bart WinPE.
Also sometimes to quickly copy files over from an internal hard disk of the computer, or to access info online. I'd use a WinPE build like Bart.
 
8:57 AM
@Bob I've managed to mount FAT32 and NTFS images (i.e. no partition table). So maybe it's something at the driver level requiring the table?
I'm also pretty sure I managed to mount a disk image with multiple partitions once.
 
Bob
@barlop WindowsToGo, Linux live, ...
@jiggunjer Mount how?
 
some software, I've used so many I'm not sure. Maybe imdisk?
you could select the sector to start the mount from
so I read the table start sectors and mounted the same image several times, just different partitions. Long time ago.
 
Bob
@jiggunjer Maybe it mounted as removable
I can tell you 10 mins ago I mkdosfs'd an image, mounted it non-removable, and Windows wanted to initialise the disk
Remounted removable and all was fine
root@amaterasu:/tank/misc# file testusb.img
testusb.img: DOS/MBR boot sector MS-MBR Windows 7 english at offset 0x163 "Invalid partition table" at offset 0x17b "Error loading operating system" at offset 0x19a "Missing operating system", disk signature 0xbc0d53ca; partition 1 : ID=0xc, active, start-CHS (0x0,32,33), end-CHS (0x3ff,254,63), startsector 2048, 33552384 sectors
@jiggunjer ^
That one shouldn't have a MBR on it, unless I flubbed it
 
9:23 AM
i think the gap between level 5 and level 6 on google maps is VASTLY larger than the lower levels
 
@Burgi `oui
I hit 10k views
still don't feel like i'm getting anywhere
 
sorry i mean 6 and 7
 
level 5->6 is 1000 points
> Maps contribution Points earned
Review 5 points per review
Rating 1 point per rating
Photo 5 points per photo
Answer 1 point per answer
Edit 5 points per edit
Place added 15 points per place added
Fact checked 1 point per fact checked
6->7 is 3500
>Level Points Badge
Level 1 0 points No badge
Level 2 15 points No badge
Level 3 75 points No badge
Level 4 250 points
Level 5 500 points
Level 6 1,500 points
Level 7 5,000 points
Level 8 15,000 points
Level 9 50,000 points
Level 10 100,000 points
wtf is with the extra > appearing o_O
9->10 is 50k points! :O
 
i guess its logarithmic
 
@Bob maybe you can zero the first 512 bytes to be sure
 
9:50 AM
deleting your SE profile in a certain community just removes you from that specific community right.
I think I've joined too many networks :D time for cropping
 
why?
 
o_O?
too many?
wut
 
I checked my list 40+
some I've only visited once, liked them and joined, then never came back :p
 
yeah but it doesn't actually matter
 
10:07 AM
indeed.
 
yea but I want the beta to die
 
Bob
@jiggunjer that broke it :P
 
die lifehackers die :D
 
Bob
hm
whoops
I accidentally the file
 
aurghghghg
i need to pratice subnet calculations.
 
10:13 AM
@djsmiley2k Why? Just use subnet-calculator.com
 
@DavidPostill mostly because I'll look something up on the firewall
and it's a pain to fire up a page
when I should be able to remember that 255.255.255.192 subnet gives me 15 or so IP's
 
Bob
@jiggunjer diskpart lets you list partitions but not select the 1 if it's a superfloppy :P
 
err
a few more than 15 then ;D
65ish?
ok i'm gonna do the math the 'easy' way
255-192 = 63 - 1 for broadcast, one for subnet, = 61
boom
 
@djsmiley2k Your memory is wrong. The answer is 64.
 
oh, 256, sigh
;D
so 62.
 
10:17 AM
@Bob perhaps it's time superfloppies went the way of the dodo
 
Print out the cheat sheet ;)
 
@DavidPostill close enough ;)
 
Bob
@jiggunjer nah, they have their place as something particularly simple :P
(and poorly-defined)
I'm recreating the install media now
 
@djsmiley2k 62 usable
 
@DavidPostill why is it only 62 usable?
 
10:27 AM
10 mins ago, by djsmiley2k
so 62.
I got there eventually ;)
@Burgi One for network, one for Broadcast iirc
my brain hurts, I don't have to think about these things often :D
 
@djsmiley2k what do you mean "network"?
 
So much for me going 'I think I'll quiz my brain a bit'
 
assume i'm a dumb programmer
 
@DavidPostill do I mean 'Gateway' ?
 
speaking of networking... my girlfriend managed to get 40% off her new internet all because she signed up to the petition to remove VAT from tampons
 
Bob
10:33 AM
@jiggunjer (@barlop) looks like the MCT creates a MBR + UEFI disk
 
which, btw, is the ONLY reason to leave the EU
 
@Burgi 0_0
 
i didn't quite understand it either
she was telling me while i was playing NMS
 
lol
 
@Bob you mean a GPT with protective MBR
 
Bob
10:48 AM
@barlop looks like Rufus can't do hybrid BIOS + UEFI on a single disk. MCT can. But on your old machine you only need BIOS anyway.
@jiggunjer No. I mean actual MBR.
MCT creates a FAT32-formatted MBR disk with BIOS boot via MBR boot sector, plus UEFI boot via standard UEFI paths.
I'll say it again: both BIOS and UEFI don't care whether your disk is MBR or GPT. BIOS works on MBR and GPT. UEFI works on MBR and GPT.
GPT is preferred, especially when dealing with UEFI boot, but it is not required unless you're booting an actual Windows OS (as opposed to the Windows insaller). And even then that's largely an artificial requirement -- the firmware doesn't care.
 
Based on what you said earlier: UEFI works on GPT and Superfloppies
 
Bob
@jiggunjer And MBR.
 
I thought UEFI doesn't like MBR, even if the partition is FAT32 with proper efi files.
ok ok
Porbably thinking about Windows bootloader
 
Bob
@jiggunjer Earlier, I said UEFI doesn't require GPT, and that it works off superfloppies.
I didn't actually say anything about UEFI on MBR cause I wasn't too sure.
Now, I'm pretty sure. See also, superuser.com/a/801525/117590
 
can anyone help me find a gif of the scene from GotG2 where they roll out the carpet on that snow planet?
 
10:53 AM
@Bob it's just that every guide I read about making bootable media for UEFI mentions make a GPT
 
Bob
@jiggunjer UEFI as a standard, and as far as firmware support, should work fine off MBR. Windows OS won't boot, but that's not the firmware's fault.
@jiggunjer Ehhhh. Standard bootable disk is usually hybrid because it's not taht hard and very compatible. That means superfloppy with MBR-style boot sector, plus UEFI folder structure. In this case, I appear to have a MBR-formatted disk, but same story with the boot sector and folder structure.
@jiggunjer Hmmmmmmmm. On closer look, it's possible that the UEFI standard actually requires MBR or GPT and is not guaranteed to work on a superfloppy o.O
that's news to me
 
probably because the UEFI standard says use GPT, so MBR support is kinda unofficial/not guaranteed, but still works most of the time. As I understand UEFI firmware can choose not to understand the old partition layout.
 
Bob
@jiggunjer Nah, see that link superuser.com/a/801525/117590 => UEFI standard requires MBR support ... I think?
 
> Samsung Galaxy Note8 announced
Is that like a bomb threat warning?
 
xD
@Bob when in doubt: wikipedia! :D
 
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