The Nineteenth Byte

10:00 PM

@DJMcMayhem I've thought about that. Looking forward. However, I'd think the objective would be to find the shortest way...

Uriel

@DJMcMayhem its hard for robbers to get a crash that will leave some functionality to work, and hard to cops to find workarounds if they involve complicated interpreter/ compiler injections for recovery of functions

Adám

@Zacharý No, it distinguishes between glyphs and identifier chars.

DJMcMayhem

@Uriel I think you've got the two backwards there.

Adám

@Zacharý There are loads of hidden features in Dyalog APL. We even have a hidden feature that was added expressly to prevent Kai Jäger from brute forcing the hidden features.

DJMcMayhem

Here's a thought: Cops could say My recovery works in n bytes and then robbers have to recover in n or less bytes.

Zacharý

10:02 PM

Wait ... someone already attempted that?! (And I thought you weren't supposed to tell)

Uriel

@DJMcMayhem yes, sorry. I would expect the real answers to be much more sophisticated than print=None, so although the cop has got an answer, it might take him more than a week to get it and result with a very big solution (like a java reflection)

Zacharý

del print.

Adám

@Zacharý I didn't tell you how to use (or abuse them).

Zacharý

They're not I beams .. are they?

DJMcMayhem

>>> del print
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
NameError: name 'print' is not defined

@Zacharý ^

totallyhuman

10:04 PM

python3

Adám

@Zacharý Some are. Good luck trying all possible arrays as operands to ⌶!

totallyhuman

print is a keyword in 2

Zacharý

I was referring to when you say print=None.

DJMcMayhem

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation.  All rights reserved.

C:\Users\DJ>python
Python 3.5.2 (v3.5.2:4def2a2901a5, Jun 25 2016, 22:18:55) [MSC v.1900 64 bit (AM
D64)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> del print
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
NameError: name 'print' is not defined
>>>

@totallyhuman ^

totallyhuman

huh

weiiiiird

DJMcMayhem

10:05 PM

It's cause print isn't a variable

You can reassign functions, but you can only del variables

Uriel

@DJMcMayhem built in functions have a special treatment

totallyhuman

>>> def f(n):return n
...
>>> del f
>>>

you can delete functions

DJMcMayhem

Nevermind then

totallyhuman

apparently python gives special treatment to builtins

Uriel

52 secs ago, by Uriel

@DJMcMayhem built in functions have a special treatment

Zacharý

10:06 PM

Like I was saying, del print should fix redefining print.

totallyhuman

...we just proved otherwise

DJMcMayhem

@totallyhuman You can't delete/reassign builtin functions. Doing print=None just creates a variable named print, and that's what gets looked at first when you try to call print

>>> print=None
>>> del print
>>> print(7)
7
>>>

totallyhuman

mm ok weird

Zacharý

Well, I have my idea for FF, (⌶)

DJMcMayhem

@Zacharý Ah, I get it now

Adám

10:08 PM

@Zacharý FF?

Uriel

@Adám а.к.а. 255

DJMcMayhem

Anyway, one thing I'm not sure about is what the goal of the second snippet should be. Adding two numbers is super simple, and I'm not sure if that's good or bad. I could change it to primality test, or I could even do add two numbers or primality test and let each answer pick which one they want

orlp

@PeterTaylor wow, rod posted a really fast algorithm, trying to decipher it now

Adám

@Uriel Why ⌶?

Zacharý

Extending the number of commands.

Uriel

10:10 PM

@DJMcMayhem the nice side effect of these challenges are that they usually relate only to normal programming languages, so no 1 byters primers

DJMcMayhem

Yeah, it's nice

I have nothing against golfing languages at all, but I really enjoy challenges where they just aren't really useful because of the nature of the challenge itself, rather than arbitrarily discouraging them.

Adám

@DJMcMayhem +1

Uriel

@DJMcMayhem not that nice, I would still want to see some jelly abuse through python evaluation

DJMcMayhem

Haha, I was just going to say the same thing

Peter Taylor

@orlp I don't think it's correct, but I'm about to go to bed so I doubt I'll post a counterexample today

Zacharý

10:13 PM

... that might refer to J & APL ...

orlp

@PeterTaylor it already fails one of your testcases, but it matches every single other one

Zacharý

GTG>

Christopher

I run bash on windows. I WIN EVERYTHING

Adám

@Zacharý ↑care

Uriel

@DJMcMayhem regarding the crow vs cab, that's cool, I was just looking to abuse APL abs for complex numbers. @Zacharý did a good job at making it irrelevant ;)

Adám

10:17 PM

@Uriel How did he do that?

Uriel

1

A: The Crow vs The Taxicab

Dyalog APL, 13 bytes +/∘|-.5*⍨+.×⍨ Try it online! Explanation (input X): +/∘| - Sum of the element-wise absolute value of X - - Minus .5*⍨+.×⍨ - Euclidean distance = sqrt(X . X)

Adám

0

A: The Crow vs The Taxicab

APL (Dyalog), 10 bytes Takes argument in the form xJy, e.g. 3J4 ||-9 11+.○⊢ Try it online! | the magnitude of | the argument's magnitude - minus 9 11+.○⊢ the sum of the argument's real and the imaginary parts. Special trick for golfing was the use of the generalised inner "product", us...

DJMcMayhem

Really, everyone's answer is irrelevant cause the Taxi answer is the only one that's going to get any attention. :P

Uriel

@DJMcMayhem as do all challenge themed answers :P

Adám

@DJMcMayhem Just like the Rex question.

DJMcMayhem

10:18 PM

Or Go Johnny Go

Uriel

@Adám 9 11 hmm.

@DJMcMayhem or adam west. both repcapped me for days.

orlp

@PeterTaylor actually, nvm, it doesn't have a counterexample in the list

Wheat Wizard

If I vote to close my own question will it be closed by itself?

Uriel

@DJMcMayhem I believe V is also considered v-emed for keyboard so real, considered its derived from vim which involves mainly typing

Adám

@WheatWizard you can just delete it.

Wheat Wizard

10:23 PM

@Adám I can't if it has answers

DJMcMayhem

@Uriel Hmm, I hadn't thought about that

Wheat Wizard

Related question, can I flag for a mod to delete a question of mine with answers?

DJMcMayhem

But tbf, for a good six months it was the only answer to beat bubblegum, and like 70 some bytes shorter than every non-bubblegum answer

Wheat Wizard

and If so under what conditions would they accept my request?

DJMcMayhem

@WheatWizard Depends on why. I've done it before

If there are lots or highly voted answers, it's less likely I'd imagine, but I'm not sure

Wheat Wizard

10:25 PM

My reason is I don't like the question or the answers, and I think they have a negative impact on the site

that probably isn't a very good reason

I'll just edit the question down to a stub and VTC as off-topic

Uriel

@DJMcMayhem can't say the same about adam west. the longest answer on the board

but I don't mind being outgolfed by bytes, as long as I'm also outgolfed by votes

Peter Taylor

@orlp Fortunately I already had a test framework which I used to compare two reference implementations in Java, so I just had to port it to Java.

orlp

@PeterTaylor I feel like it can't be coincidence it manages to satisfy almost all test cases though

it at least gives a very strong hint at a simple algorithm that just fixes an error this one makes

particularly regarding duplicates

Wheat Wizard

Turns out you cannot close your own question in one vote

Adám

@Uriel Actually, it is invalid. I just noticed that input can be negative.

Wheat Wizard

10:29 PM

VTC please?

DJMcMayhem

@Uriel I keep hoping that if I repeatedly come back to it and shave off one or two bites each time, I'll get enough attention to eventually reach 100 points on it.

I've never gotten a three digit post before. I'm so close though!

Uriel

then you're good at golfing votes count

I have only 7 nice answers. all the rest are APL and python

DJMcMayhem

But at 135, I don't think I can take any more bytes off

Uriel

@WheatWizard what? no! don't delete it! restore it!

DJMcMayhem

@Adám Coordinates can be negative, distances can't.

Wheat Wizard

10:35 PM

Its a bad question, with bad answers. And people have used it as an example of a "good pop-con" It is causing more harm than good.

DJMcMayhem

But either way, since the question is how much longer is the taxicabs path, that won't be negative anyway

Adám

@DJMcMayhem The distance from my computer to my bed is very negative.

LegionMammal978

> 

lol, found it in this page's HTML

Peter Taylor

@orlp Actually the test case which was the last one when I originally posted the question was deliberately constructed to break a certain greedy algorithm. I think Rod's answer basically implemented the greedy algorithm with a special case to pass that test case.

If you want ideas, look at the Haskell answer instead

Uriel

@DJMcMayhem I put 50 rep that the taxi answer won't get to 150 votes

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