The Nineteenth Byte

Adám

22:00

@DJMcMayhem I've thought about that. Looking forward. However, I'd think the objective would be to find the shortest way...

Uriel

@DJMcMayhem its hard for robbers to get a crash that will leave some functionality to work, and hard to cops to find workarounds if they involve complicated interpreter/ compiler injections for recovery of functions

Adám

@Zacharý No, it distinguishes between glyphs and identifier chars.

DJMcMayhem

@Uriel I think you've got the two backwards there.

Adám

@Zacharý There are loads of hidden features in Dyalog APL. We even have a hidden feature that was added expressly to prevent Kai Jäger from brute forcing the hidden features.

DJMcMayhem

Here's a thought: Cops could say My recovery works in n bytes and then robbers have to recover in n or less bytes.

Zacharý

22:02

Wait ... someone already attempted that?! (And I thought you weren't supposed to tell)

Uriel

@DJMcMayhem yes, sorry. I would expect the real answers to be much more sophisticated than print=None, so although the cop has got an answer, it might take him more than a week to get it and result with a very big solution (like a java reflection)

Zacharý

del print.

Adám

@Zacharý I didn't tell you how to use (or abuse them).

Zacharý

They're not I beams .. are they?

DJMcMayhem

>>> del print
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
NameError: name 'print' is not defined

@Zacharý ^

totallyhuman

22:04

python3

Adám

@Zacharý Some are. Good luck trying all possible arrays as operands to ⌶!

totallyhuman

print is a keyword in 2

Zacharý

I was referring to when you say print=None.

DJMcMayhem

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation.  All rights reserved.

C:\Users\DJ>python
Python 3.5.2 (v3.5.2:4def2a2901a5, Jun 25 2016, 22:18:55) [MSC v.1900 64 bit (AM
D64)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> del print
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
NameError: name 'print' is not defined
>>>

@totallyhuman ^

totallyhuman

huh

weiiiiird

DJMcMayhem

22:05

It's cause print isn't a variable

You can reassign functions, but you can only del variables

Uriel

@DJMcMayhem built in functions have a special treatment

totallyhuman

>>> def f(n):return n
...
>>> del f
>>>

you can delete functions

DJMcMayhem

Nevermind then

totallyhuman

apparently python gives special treatment to builtins

Uriel

52 secs ago, by Uriel

@DJMcMayhem built in functions have a special treatment

Zacharý

22:06

Like I was saying, del print should fix redefining print.

totallyhuman

...we just proved otherwise

DJMcMayhem

@totallyhuman You can't delete/reassign builtin functions. Doing print=None just creates a variable named print, and that's what gets looked at first when you try to call print

>>> print=None
>>> del print
>>> print(7)
7
>>>

totallyhuman

mm ok weird

Zacharý

Well, I have my idea for FF, (⌶)

DJMcMayhem

@Zacharý Ah, I get it now

Adám

22:08

@Zacharý FF?

Uriel

@Adám а.к.а. 255

DJMcMayhem

Anyway, one thing I'm not sure about is what the goal of the second snippet should be. Adding two numbers is super simple, and I'm not sure if that's good or bad. I could change it to primality test, or I could even do add two numbers or primality test and let each answer pick which one they want

orlp

@PeterTaylor wow, rod posted a really fast algorithm, trying to decipher it now

Adám

@Uriel Why ⌶?

Zacharý

Extending the number of commands.

Uriel

22:10

@DJMcMayhem the nice side effect of these challenges are that they usually relate only to normal programming languages, so no 1 byters primers

DJMcMayhem

Yeah, it's nice

I have nothing against golfing languages at all, but I really enjoy challenges where they just aren't really useful because of the nature of the challenge itself, rather than arbitrarily discouraging them.

Adám

@DJMcMayhem +1

Uriel

@DJMcMayhem not that nice, I would still want to see some jelly abuse through python evaluation

DJMcMayhem

Haha, I was just going to say the same thing

Peter Taylor

@orlp I don't think it's correct, but I'm about to go to bed so I doubt I'll post a counterexample today

Zacharý

22:13

... that might refer to J & APL ...

orlp

@PeterTaylor it already fails one of your testcases, but it matches every single other one

Zacharý

GTG>

Christopher

I run bash on windows. I WIN EVERYTHING

Adám

@Zacharý ↑care

Uriel

@DJMcMayhem regarding the crow vs cab, that's cool, I was just looking to abuse APL abs for complex numbers. @Zacharý did a good job at making it irrelevant ;)

Adám

22:17

@Uriel How did he do that?

Uriel

1

A: The Crow vs The Taxicab

Dyalog APL, 13 bytes +/∘|-.5*⍨+.×⍨ Try it online! Explanation (input X): +/∘| - Sum of the element-wise absolute value of X - - Minus .5*⍨+.×⍨ - Euclidean distance = sqrt(X . X)

Adám

0

A: The Crow vs The Taxicab

APL (Dyalog), 10 bytes Takes argument in the form xJy, e.g. 3J4 ||-9 11+.○⊢ Try it online! | the magnitude of | the argument's magnitude - minus 9 11+.○⊢ the sum of the argument's real and the imaginary parts. Special trick for golfing was the use of the generalised inner "product", us...

DJMcMayhem

Really, everyone's answer is irrelevant cause the Taxi answer is the only one that's going to get any attention. :P

Uriel

@DJMcMayhem as do all challenge themed answers :P

Adám

@DJMcMayhem Just like the Rex question.

DJMcMayhem

22:18

Or Go Johnny Go

Uriel

@Adám 9 11 hmm.

@DJMcMayhem or adam west. both repcapped me for days.

orlp

@PeterTaylor actually, nvm, it doesn't have a counterexample in the list

Wheat Wizard

If I vote to close my own question will it be closed by itself?

Uriel

@DJMcMayhem I believe V is also considered v-emed for keyboard so real, considered its derived from vim which involves mainly typing

Adám

@WheatWizard you can just delete it.

Wheat Wizard

22:23

@Adám I can't if it has answers

DJMcMayhem

@Uriel Hmm, I hadn't thought about that

Wheat Wizard

Related question, can I flag for a mod to delete a question of mine with answers?

DJMcMayhem

But tbf, for a good six months it was the only answer to beat bubblegum, and like 70 some bytes shorter than every non-bubblegum answer

Wheat Wizard

and If so under what conditions would they accept my request?

DJMcMayhem

@WheatWizard Depends on why. I've done it before

If there are lots or highly voted answers, it's less likely I'd imagine, but I'm not sure

Wheat Wizard

22:25

My reason is I don't like the question or the answers, and I think they have a negative impact on the site

that probably isn't a very good reason

I'll just edit the question down to a stub and VTC as off-topic

Uriel

@DJMcMayhem can't say the same about adam west. the longest answer on the board

but I don't mind being outgolfed by bytes, as long as I'm also outgolfed by votes

Peter Taylor

@orlp Fortunately I already had a test framework which I used to compare two reference implementations in Java, so I just had to port it to Java.

orlp

@PeterTaylor I feel like it can't be coincidence it manages to satisfy almost all test cases though

it at least gives a very strong hint at a simple algorithm that just fixes an error this one makes

particularly regarding duplicates

Wheat Wizard

Turns out you cannot close your own question in one vote

Adám

@Uriel Actually, it is invalid. I just noticed that input can be negative.

Wheat Wizard

22:29

VTC please?

DJMcMayhem

@Uriel I keep hoping that if I repeatedly come back to it and shave off one or two bites each time, I'll get enough attention to eventually reach 100 points on it.

I've never gotten a three digit post before. I'm so close though!

Uriel

then you're good at golfing votes count

I have only 7 nice answers. all the rest are APL and python

DJMcMayhem

But at 135, I don't think I can take any more bytes off

Uriel

@WheatWizard what? no! don't delete it! restore it!

DJMcMayhem

@Adám Coordinates can be negative, distances can't.

Wheat Wizard

22:35

Its a bad question, with bad answers. And people have used it as an example of a "good pop-con" It is causing more harm than good.

DJMcMayhem

But either way, since the question is how much longer is the taxicabs path, that won't be negative anyway

Adám

@DJMcMayhem The distance from my computer to my bed is very negative.

LegionMammal978

> 

lol, found it in this page's HTML

Peter Taylor

@orlp Actually the test case which was the last one when I originally posted the question was deliberately constructed to break a certain greedy algorithm. I think Rod's answer basically implemented the greedy algorithm with a special case to pass that test case.

If you want ideas, look at the Haskell answer instead

Uriel

@DJMcMayhem I put 50 rep that the taxi answer won't get to 150 votes

Mendeleev

22:40

So I just upgraded my laptop. It now has a 1440x900 display and a backlit keyboard :P

Christopher

Running bash on windows

►

Mendeleev

Used to be 1280x800 and non backlit

Anyone want to play Ultimate Tic Tac Toe?

Downgoat

@Mendeleev :| it is not let enter name

Mendeleev

@Downgoat Someone else already joined

Downgoat

:(

Mendeleev

22:53

You can play next time

flawr

it seems you're playing against arya stark

Mendeleev

who is htat?

flawr

don't know game of thrones?

Mendeleev

no

sorry

Oh damn, that was a good move :O

flawr

damn this game is hard =)

Mendeleev

23:03

Wait, you're my opponent? :P

Yeah, it's a good game

flawr

yep :)

isaacg

@Lembik What do you think of this tag proposal:

Mendeleev

By the way the paint button changes themes @flawr

isaacg

0

A: Do we need a new tag for time limited code-golf?

PPCG has two types of tags: Winning condition tags, and everything else. For this type of challenge, the winning condition is clear: code-golf. However, we should still have a tag to indicate what's going on in this type of problem, so that people know what to expect when looking at the question...

Mendeleev

Oh damn I clicked the wrong tile

Meant to click top left :O

flawr

23:08

stop thinking so much XD

Mendeleev

lol

I'm usually not very good at strategy games :P

@flawr You lost your connection

Downgoat

wait wtf python REPL does not offer another prompt for 1 +

flawr

i just mputer just crashed =/

Mendeleev

> I just mputer just crashed

flawr

now I can chose any square??

Mendeleev

23:14

@flawr Yeah, I chose a square which was already taken

flawr

Ah so you cannot win back another square =/

Mendeleev

yey

flawr

congrats, really nice game

Mendeleev

Thanks!

I didn't make it

flawr

but too much thinking for that time of the ~~day~~ night=)

Mendeleev

23:16

It's 4:16 PM

here at least

flawr

(1:16 am)

Mendeleev

Oh.

It's a really good strategy game that's really easy to pick up

I used to play it with my friends during school lunch :)

flawr

@Downgoat yer turn now, mr d. owngoat

Mendeleev

@Downgoat bejofo.net/ttt/39267827

I will probably lose ;-;

flawr

this is a ttt-recursion of depth 2

can we go further? XD

Mendeleev

23:19

How would that work

Someone should make that

@Downgoat upsheep invasion is coming

> Sir Goat the Down IV

flawr

@Mendeleev @Downgoat you should rename youself here.

to

46 secs ago, by Mendeleev

> Sir Goat the Down IV

Mendeleev

I can be Sir Table the Periodic

Or Upsheep

ATaco

Sir Cumfrance of the Round Table.

flawr

and I?

Adám

@Downgoat Why are you not Upgoat (as opposed to Downsheep)

Downgoat

23:24

excuse me did you just call me a she*p

flawr

Lady McSnek?

Mendeleev

Because Downgoat is a sheep

Downgoat

ok this is just plain rude

flawr

at least sheepish

cu guys

Mendeleev

bye

Downgoat

23:28

how are you suppose to win in this .___.

Mendeleev

get a three in a row of the large scale squars

Downgoat

:O how are you able to place in my square but i can't do in yours

Mendeleev

wat

New Meta Posts

0

Q: Can I delete my own question?

I have a challenge, that I don't like. I think the challenge has a negative impact on the community, and I think we would all benefit from it being gone. I decided I was willing to part with my meager rep gains, so I went to delete it. However I was told I could not because it had an answer. S...

discussion

Mendeleev

yeah you cna

just not the full taken ones

Downgoat

23:30

no it only allow me to put in one specific random square

Feb 19 at 22:06, by Riker

@ckjbgames @Downgoat IT IS THE SHEEPS FAULT

Mendeleev

It's the square I choose

I cna only place in the square you choose

Unless you choose a taken square, then I can place in any square

Downgoat

owow ok

Mendeleev

youo lost your connection :P

yayy :D

Downgoat

:(

Mendeleev

:P

@Downgoat You playing?

OK, I'm leaving the game D:

Downgoat

23:39

it says you lost ur connection D:

Mendeleev

yeah I closed the game

Downgoat

ono D:

Mendeleev

I need to do something else (put up the new bed I got)

Zacharý

Hey, anyone know why would Dyalog syntax error on :For I :In ⍳n?

ATaco

@Adám cc ^

Downgoat

23:41

@Mendeleev TIL the periodic table of elements sleeps :P

Mendeleev

TIL goats don't

Adám

@Zacharý TIO?

Zacharý

What, a link?

Mendeleev

Adám

@Zacharý yes. There could be many reasons. E.g. I←+ or you're trying to use :If in a dfn. I need some context.

Mendeleev

23:43

@Downgoat The goats that live near our house

Downgoat

@Mendeleev ~~shit my cover is blown~~ oh those look nice goats :)

ATaco

That was a lowercase link.

Zacharý

The goat wasn't upside down.

ATaco

Also, I'm a trusted user now. 🎉

Mendeleev

@ATaco Ayyyyy

Zacharý

23:46

tio.run/##SyzI0U2pTMzJT////1FHe9Gjtgm5CnlcIPpR7xquRDC9OY/Lyi2/…

Mendeleev

@Downgoat Did you read the Kevin Goatkins story?

Adám

@Zacharý There is no such thing as :Try

ATaco

@Adám Do or do not, there is no :Try

6

Zacharý

What's the APL version again?

Adám

@Zacharý :Trap errno(s)

Zacharý

23:49

What's the code for syntax error ?

Adám

@Zacharý 2

@Zacharý You can also just use 0 for "all"

Downgoat

@Mendeleev no?

Zacharý

Okay, domain error?

Adám

@ATaco It is a :Trap!

Zacharý

Must be something to do with APL that causes these puns. Guess we took the bait APpLe.

totallyhuman

23:52

btw what is the parity of negative numbers

Mendeleev

@Downgoat It's a goat parody of a different story called The Kevin Jenkins Experience. Sci-fi

Downgoat

@totallyhuman do you mean like two complement?

Zacharý

IIRC same as the abs value of the number.

Adám

@Zacharý 11

@totallyhuman Same as positive.

Zacharý

Um ... what?

> fffffffffffffffc 0000000000000006 000000000000220f 0000000000 000001

Adám

23:57

APLers tend to be SciFi (esp. Star Wars) fans. Dunno why.

Zacharý

Me --- Star Trek.

Adám

@Zacharý ⍋>⍝ Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi, you’re my only hope

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