The Reading Room

@Catija look, OK, I literally pressed the enter key too soon. I'm actually a big fan of the Christianity Stack Exchange's answers (or at least of the answers I've seen through my limited exposure to the site).

1:36 AM

You are right though; I do need to be more careful about how I phrase things. (This has been something I've been working on, with some success). And I obviously get why the first version was wrong. But in this case, it wasn't a mistake in that I didn't understand why what I wrote was problematic, it was that I pressed the enter key too soon.

source: facebook.com/theoryismypraxis (I don't steal memes)

@Gallifreyan I tried reading it; it just wasn't for me (I'm very picky about writing styles).

2:15 AM

How's this for a turn of a phrase:

You're taller than a transmission line and broader than an octave.

Uttered without a thought, relayed after half of one.

@Randal'Thor eh, people make mistakes. And I think Emrakul has a point: these meta discussions aren't very helpful if there isn't a specific post to talk about.

Another half-baked question: Are you referring to meta posts or chat lines? Please link if posts.

@humn mix of both literature.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/755/…

Q: Understanding the use of the word "Negress" in the Kilmartin and Cox translation of Solaris

Thank you.

What a touchy subject! Didn't realize.

Religious texts?

The most lovingly, the most exasperatedly, the most creatively, the most nerdily, the most edited, .. . .

The most inspired!

In every language.

(Don't make me spell it. . . .) The most human.

In every language.

Bookworm

2:36 AM

0

I just finished reading Kilmartin and Cox's translation of Stanislaw Lem's Solaris, and one particular passage stood out to me. I'm hesitant to ask a question about the Kilmartin and Cox translation, because I found out after reading it that (1) it's a very poor translation, most likely due to th...

2:57 AM

Another from the blue: "Sometimes we clap our heads just to pound out what"

3:48 AM

@Randal'Thor LOL

@Gallifreyan Cool

Note that it probably got DVs because it's probably not an "increasing diversity" choice. Probably same for your Batman option.

Here's my vote for expanding topic challenges to include more well-known authors/genres, at least on occasion. (Either that, or starting a separate challenge series for other authors. Just because something's famous or well-known doesn't mean that I've read it, or that there's no merit in a bunch of us reading it and discussing it together)

More famous books will also likely be more available to lit.SE users.

Maybe we should alternate challenges? One month vanilla, one month diverse?

@Randal'Thor I just got around to this. It's short, but great. Thanks for the rec :)

The prose was really cool; there are awesome little nuggets buried in there.

@Bookworm @Mithrandir Oh, there's your Kokopelli question! Nice!

@Catija I've seen one or two of those. I think Merriam-Webster tweeted something about that at some point or another.

Or a different language/literature Twitter account that I follow

@Gallifreyan Interesting. I thought you meant acid jazz. The English word for what you describe would probably be trippy, a word that I've seen used a often about The Sandman.

4:06 AM

You're wild and crazy, @Shokhet, it a good way.

Hiya @humn. :)

I haven't been in here in a little while, so I'm reading through the chat and responding as needed.

I've barely gotten here!

But recognize a nutritious soup.

Yeah. I noticed you recently in chat, but haven't had the chance to greet you properly. Welcome to the Reading Room! :)

@Mithrandir (none yet)

Thank you, Shokhet. I love to read.

And can't help but type.

@humn I think you'll find that most people in this chat do, too. It's a nice place to discuss books.

@humn Do you mind my asking what your first language is, if not English?

4:14 AM

Tied with Finnish (Suomi).

And in a lyrical sense, Irish and Scots.

Even if those aren't English!

Yours? To be nosey.

Cool! Have you seen our finnish-literature questions?

(Never mind, that tag is empty. Oops)

Fell for it and clicked.

My first language is English. I am conversant in Hebrew, and can understand Yiddish (but can't really speak it very well).

@humn Sorry :/

I saw someone mention the tag on meta, and thought we had some posts for that tag.

Turns out that half of my schoolmates spoke Yiddish. That's my third language.

farshteits du Yiddish? (Du bist a Yid?)

4:18 AM

Not to that extent, but I know some woids.

Cool.

(My actual third, fourth, nth languages are programming)

I have two sibs, one who can imitate any accent. The other who can speak any language with an English accent.

I am the happy medium. I cannot speak any language while imitating no other.

@humn Nice. I've dabbled, but can't consider myself to speak any programming language.

But it sure is fun to try

Yeah, languages are fun :)

Have you tried Duolingo, or any other language learning program? Some of my friends are learning Spanish and Russian with a smartphone app.

4:24 AM

(looking it up)

Duolingo is free, Rosetta Stone is the most well known (but very expensive). There are a lot of language learning programs around (but I don't know any that start from Finnish...not that I've ever looked).

(damn, phone call just when things got interesting)

Oh, that's interesting. Duolingo's list of courses includes Klingon for English speakers. I think that's hilarious.

@humn Yeah, I have to go soon also. It's getting a little late, in my time zone :)

.

See ya around!

The Klingon Hamlet Part 1: The Original Klingon - Summer of Shakespeare

4:35 AM

Janis Joplin with Big Brother & The Holding Company - Summertime (1968)

5:15 AM

Thank you! (Phone call was from my music teacher/lover. High priority.)

While listening to yours, here's another:

@BESW , So good!

"consonants that require phlegm"

(By the way, Janis Joplin was a frontispiece, not the foundation, of an awesome guitar duel.)

("Duel," not "duet," intentional. Haven't found the best eample online yet)

^x

6:44 AM

@Shokhet oh wow! I'll have to try that ;)

Gallifreyan

9:28 AM

@Shokhet Yep, trippy is exactly the word. I think I had learned that word after Doctor Strange questions on SFF, but now forgot it. The word I sometimes used for The Sandman was "surreal".

Gallifreyan

9:41 AM

@Shokhet No, it's because people who vote there are snobs who won't read the books anyway.

I can't see how a graphic novel wold not increase diversity.

What, are you telling the challenge is only to read foreign writers? Then it should be said so in the body and the title of the challenge, because it doesn't right now.

Hehe, I'll just post another suggestion, this time a manga.

Just have to find the right one.

I've got it! I'll propose a webcomic!

...impulsive language question motivated by music: Do we look in or through (or ...?) the mirror? ...

"In" is idiomatic for conventional use. "Through" is usually metaphorical or fantastical.

Right!

Idiomatically one can also look at a mirror.

You bad.

Good one

Ah, reflection.

And reverberation.

(I woke up to listen to music but all I heard at the moment were words.)

What is a mirror for words? ... or music?

A sounding board?

Just a guess.

People? (better guess)

(That was not imperative, merely hopeful)

I meant that people are better than a sounding board.

Should I go back to listening to music? Signed - both a provocateur and a perked ear

Missing Persons - Words

Think I'll turn my hair blue.

10:23 AM

@Shokhet The Wonderful O? Great! :-) Have you also read The Thirteen Clocks?

@humn I used to know someone with blue hair.

Welcome back, Rand'... to the show that never ends.

(I'm still reading both of those Thurber's')

@humn A show that never ends should be a shooooooooooooooo...

Emerson, Lake and Palmer - The Endless Enigma (Complete)

soooooooooooooooooo troooooooooooooooo!

The endless enigma.

Really? The endless enigma is complete?!?

The endless enigma is enig.

Now the neighbs are calling the cps.

10:32 AM

I, enigma = imagine.

Wowie!

@humn The Crown Prosecution Service?

Gonna make me look that up?

Well, you said the CPS.

The Kinks - I'm In Disgrace

Right. i deny every word.

As soon as a vowel skips out I'll trip up.

Q: Who put forward this completion to Sappho 94, and what is it actually supposed to read?

Bookworm

10:36 AM

1

In Sappho 94 (τεθνάκην δ' ἀδόλως θέλω), there is this line, which is very incomplete, which Edmonds doesn't even have, and which Bibliotheca Augustana and Campbell p. 69 both read: κωὔτε τις [^ ^ οὔ]τε τι ἶρων οὐδ᾽ ὐ[^ – ^ ^ ἔπλετ᾽, ὄππ[οθεν ἄμ]μες ἀπέσκομεν· Wharton seems to not ...

sappho

I see a cloud, so high up in the sky ...
So fluffy white, whose patterns charm the eye.
And if aught else could equal graces reach,
Then by the sun, I'll be deprived of speech.

Dammit, @humn, just talking to you is enough to inspire me to wax lyrical in poetry!

You poet, regardless!

This is a shooting gallery, shoot it.

I love the way your words ascend.

Iambic pentameter, too.

Something to learn from. And I, a musician/metricist.

Oh, do you know this poem? As a puzzler and a poet, you should love it.

> I Saw a Peacock, with a fiery tail,
I saw a Blazing Comet, drop down hail,
I saw a Cloud, with Ivy circled round,
I saw a sturdy Oak, creep on the ground,
I saw [an Ant], swallow up a Whale,
I saw a raging Sea, brim full of Ale,
I saw a Venice Glass, Sixteen foot deep,
I saw a well, full of mens tears that weep,
I saw their eyes, all in a flame of fire,
I saw a House, as big as the Moon and higher,
I saw the Sun, even in the midst of night,
I saw the man, that saw this wondrous sight.

10:46 AM

I would love to hear that spoken by the originator.

And appreciate seeing and mouthing it for myself!

You see the double meaning?

(not sure if you clicked the link or just read the poem)

(working on it, but only at the intake stage)

The punctuation isn't perfect, but there's a reason why they put a comma in the middle of every line.

Q: What is the meaning of this sher?

What double meaning do you get? I'm swamped.

Bookworm

-1

hamla hai chaar sū dar-o-dīvār-e-shahr kā sab jañgaloñ ko shahr ke andar sameT lo Source I get the meaning of each word independently, but unable to compile them in order to get the meaning of whole sher.

poetry urdu-literature khamoshi-shayari

10:50 AM

(This site is awesome!!!)

5

@humn Let me rephrase (without changing a single word!):

> I Saw a Peacock,
With a fiery tail, I saw a Blazing Comet,
Drop down hail, I saw a Cloud,
With Ivy circled round, I saw a sturdy Oak,
Creep on the ground, I saw [an Ant],
Swallow up a Whale, I saw a raging Sea,
Brim full of Ale, I saw a Venice Glass,
Sixteen foot deep, I saw a well,
Full of mens tears that weep, I saw their eyes,
All in a flame of fire, I saw a House,
As big as the Moon and higher, I saw the Sun,
Even in the midst of night, I saw the man,
That saw this wondrous sight.

You're really challenging my syncretism of aesthetic wonder and decryption.

(syncretism?)

What could be better?!

en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/syncretism

I'm still bathing in those parallel poems.

Beautiful, aren't they?

As a riddler, I naturally adored this poem.

10:59 AM

My favorite kind. I am grateful.

If you'd care to explain the intricacies, I'll pretend to have figured it out myself.

(The only reason some people love me is because I follow instructions)

(The only reason I love others is because I come with instructions)

(get it? Others' instructions)

@humn You're full of grates?

To the sweet and bitter end.

How did you do that?

Or is that just the way the system works?

My icon is meant to be a combination of crudity and incredulity.

And the picture you splatted was better than designed.

@humn Incrudity?

Incrudelity!

11:08 AM

Add them!

Now the feral few are laughing too.

It's infectious!

The feral few with feudal fear.

The feral few feel feudal fear at funeral fees.

Ain't f words fun!??!!?!?!

(why is there a "fun" in "funeral"?)

Hello Stephen Wright, Emo Philips, I will quote you f'ever

Graham Chapman had a fun funeral.

11:14 AM

You just wrote my elegy.

I take it you're familiar with the Monty Python troupe and their onscreen escapades?

Never heard of the deadliest joke.

Never heard of the silly party.

Do have every line printed, in book form.

(That's a "yes" then?)

Including Ripping Yarns

Who doesn't love a good laugh?!

Graham Chapman's Eulogy by John Cleese

Some of their offscreen escapades were almost as fun:

11:17 AM

Graham Chapman had such a straight face.

(Nice video... playing)

(Brits laughing at "fuck"!)

Sweet.

(longer version)

English is so ripe for ridicule.

But only because it's got rid of ripicule.

Not found in my dictionary but all over my whiskers.

Not in your dictionary because English got rid of it!

11:24 AM

Never heard of English.

Ohhhhh , caught in a lie.

It's like Li Sheng but less Chinese.

If that means more than an earfull sequence of syllables, please spell.

No, I'm just wordplaying.

Eng-lish -> Li-sheng.

I'm all ears

(And a foul mouth when provoked)

Ain't biology great?

Sometimes . . . .

(many loved ones have succumbed to biology after sharing their best)

11:31 AM

Nice! I'd like to live up to that.

@humn That's a very nice way to express it.

(And condolences.)

Thank you, @Rand al 'Thor.

Not easy.

But a privilege!

Biology is the most personal, and therefore the cruellest, of the sciences.

As we live and breathe. It just ain't fair!

Gotta settle down. But it just ain't fair.

Darwin would have us believe that we who remain are fitter than those who fell.

As if there is justice in the world.

11:42 AM

Story to be told by those who have a keyboard.

No justice.

Just this.

(What a juxtaposition of off-the-cuff poetry and irony)

Oh, nice wordplay! I didn't get it at first.

Out of curiosity, are you religious? (if it's not too personal a question)

I am spiritual to the point of tears.

You?

(No not any particular denomination)

I ... well, that's complicated.

Essentially, yes, but no specific religion has quite enough gravitational pull to attract me more than all the others.

I guess you have transcended.

Every foundation can be a springboard, figuratively speaking.

I was brought up with scientific Edenism.

I'm sure they all have elements of truth, and perhaps they all have some less desirable elements too.

11:51 AM

When used as a boost, not as a spank.

("A pat on the back is only a foot away from a kick in the butt")

Ah yes, religion can be used in different ways.

I prefer to think of it in terms of morality and spirituality.

You are positive beyond terms yet to sound.

At worst it can be used as a reason for people to kill each other.

I wish there was but a single world religion.

There'd be no religious wars, and I'd join it in a trice.

A shared vision.

Not yet day-to-day.

(currently worried about Northern Ireland for this very reason)

11:56 AM

Ay!

Do you live there?

(I'm in an earthquake endangered bay area)

(What I know of Ireland is idyllic.)

@humn No. I've hardly ever been there, even.

See you there!

My concern is more "for one's fellow man [or woman]" than for oneself.

@humn Western US?

Right you are. (Both lines)

Then it must be very early in the morning for you.

Or very late at night, perchance.

12:02 PM

Yeah, I'm on the western margin. Woke up just to lose some sleep.

When asleep, you should perform a Scrabble trade in avatars and exchange your Q for a Z.

? speak and spell!

one letter at a time.

Ok, I get it.,

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz (on a good day/night)

Hi

You again?!?!

@Randal'Thor have you seen the edited answer?

Is it me again? Damn

12:06 PM

@manshu I have, but I'm still not convinced ...

As am I, again. Damn!

But then, my original question was going to include "did he actually kill her?", so I suppose I'm not convinced either way.

Still, the story does very strongly suggest it was him.

I don't know why you think that he killed her. That's elementary my dear ~~Watson~~ Rand.

Isn't that the whole point of the story?

That's what makes the final line so chilling.

He's so charming that he can get away with literally anything.

Q: Why and how did the orphan kill his adoptive mother?

Btw we are talking about the short story "the orphan"

b_jonas

12:09 PM

3

While seeking the answer to a story-identification question the other day, I got sucked into a collection of Guy de Maupassant's short stories. (Have fun!) One of them, "The Orphan", is about a woman, Mademoiselle Source, who adopts a young boy and is later - so the text strongly implies - murder...

short-stories guy-de-maupassant

But how do you explain those two witnesses who said that they saw him.

@manshu Maybe he was already so charming that they were convinced to lie for him.

Highly unlikely for the charm to be so powerful.

It was powerful enough to get him from "being suspected of murder" to "being the mayor".

Oh...thwy weren't two. They were 10.

12:12 PM

That's pretty powerful.

Maybe his charm is working on you as well :-D

Or probably you are also trying to cover for those two relatives :D

Haha. That sunlight's name seems to be humn.

b_jonas

Those are the best stories, the ones with ambiguous ending. You'll never know if the robot wanted to save pilot Pirx, and we can never find it out ever because it's destroyed. And that's just one of several thoughts that will hunt him.

Pirx somehow got into those kinds of stories all the time.

Anyhow, I should be going. Much to do, more to plan.

See you fine humans another time.

@b_jonas , much appreciated.

@Rand al'Thor, thank you, again.

3:32 PM

@Randal'Thor No, I have not. Is it of a similar caliber to The Wonderful O?

@Mithrandir Good luck :)

@Shokhet It's another Thurber story, more classical fantasy (princes and monsters and things) than The Wonderful O but still with the same whimsical style and masterful wordplay.

Or rather, "yIDo'," as per tradukka.com/translate/en/tlh?hl=en

@Randal'Thor Cool! I'll see if I can get it from the library

@Randal'Thor Bye! :)

At the moment, I'm trying to find out about asking a Skeptics question. I've heard that they are really harsh on new users there. I've read their help and stuff, and I'm currently waiting in their slightly desolate chat.

3:35 PM

@Mithrandir I've asked a few questions there (but asking in chat is not a bad idea). Basically, the question needs to be in the form of "Is [claim] true?" for some notable claim. The burden of proof is on you to make the claim notable.

Once you've done that, you should be fine.

@Gallifreyan Yes, "surreal" also works just fine. (It doesn't mean "trippy," but both apply to The Sandman)

Well, it's on Health.SE as an accepted answer ;). Their source is BBC, but I can't find anything about the original study that it's apparently sourced off of.

@Mithrandir That should be fine.

Does the BBC article have footnotes?

Nope.

Weird. That should make a good Skeptics question then, I think.

Have you searched scholar.google.com for the study?

No, I don't think I've ever used Google Scholar.

@Shokhet mind taking a look and telling me what you think?

3:48 PM

Sure thing. I'm no Skeptics pro user, though

@Mithrandir Obligatory XKCD (killing cancer cells != cancer cure)

Yeah, I know - I might reword that.

'why haven't I heard it used at all' might be better.

Remove the 'as a cure' part.

Right. Check if any of these results help you

gah, technobabble

Better search (I misspelled capsaicin)

gah, paywall

...or at least sign in wall

3:55 PM

Just skimming the first page, I don't think I see what you're looking for. There is something that looks like it, but it's from dhushara.com, which I don't know if it's trustworthy (and also blocked by the school's network filter, for some reason)

You can include the search results in your question, if you want. That shows more effort, and improves the question.

Right, I don't see it either. *adds this search to the question*

Heh, same thought :P

@Mithrandir This article looks interesting, but it's not the one the BBC quoted. None of the authors (and certainly not the "lead") are named "Tim Bates." It's also from 1989, not 2007.

@Shokhet I saw a 'Timothy Bates' mentioned in the search results on there.

I might be able to get that article thru my school. Let me check if we have that one.

@Mithrandir Maybe his work was cited?

You might be able to write an answer ;)

@Shokhet *shrugs*

Thanks for your help, I feel confident enough to post it now :)

3:58 PM

All right, good luck :)

...and I run into the 40 minute network-wide question rate-limit. Seriously? >.<

Ah well, I'll wait another 7 minutes.

@Mithrandir How'd that happen? Scimonster posting a lot of questions?

No, I asked a question on Board and Card games :P

Aha. How many questions must one ask to hit the limit?

1.

It's for everybody, everywhere - only 1 question per 40 minutes network wide.

:/

4:01 PM

Is that new? ...I've been able to ask multiple questions within a few on one site in the past.

Q: Let's re-evaluate the Question Timer

Well

I think new users on a site. Got mixed up with something else *facepalm*

13

I know this seems like a good idea, but this far into the game you should be able to tell from network behavior that I'm not a spammer.. I had a compound question. I broke it up because breaking it up was possible -- it probably isn't even necessary in that it wouldn't otherwise get closed. No...

discussion questions asking-questions spam timer

0

Q: Do hot peppers kill cancer?

While browsing Health.SE, I came across an answer that makes the following claim: A 2007 study by Nottingham University2 found that spicy foods can help kill cancer cells. Capsaicin, which is what makes many foods spicy, attacks the mitochondria of the cancer cells, triggering their death. ...

nutrition cancer

@Mithrandir Searching PubMed gave me this article, which might help you. Has a TE Bates as author (but not lead), 2007, and is about something to do with capsaicin and mitochondria and cell death.

And it's from Nottingham

Nice.

... *invites you to write answer* :P

@Mithrandir Sure, I'll give it a try.

4:20 PM

@Randal'Thor Another reason for that mystery: If he wanted to kill her then he could kill her when she was in her mansion for probably two more years after the behavior change. Why kill her when she is gone (in city, where population density is far more)?

4:32 PM

...and that's my first Skeptics answer ever. Hope that works.

@BESW Very interesting. Thanks for the link; I learned more about Klingon than I ever thought I'd need to know.

4:47 PM

@Mithrandir I think I can get at least some of the full papers. Are there any you'd like to read in full?

5:23 PM

Indigenous writers recommend books to read during Indigenous Book Club Month.

5:43 PM

@Shokhet It has been a while since I've read scientific papers for fun... But I think I'll pass - thanks anyway. If I had access to it myself, I would probably read it eventually, but...

5:54 PM

@Mithrandir Okay.

Some of those might be open access (I'm not sure; I opened them while logged in)

7:01 PM

You here @Gallifreyan?

literature.stackexchange.com/questions/439/…

literature.stackexchange.com/questions/612/…

literature.stackexchange.com/questions/1894/…

literature.stackexchange.com/questions/2378/…

literature.stackexchange.com/questions/2108/…

literature.stackexchange.com/questions/2235/…

literature.stackexchange.com/questions/2519/…

literature.stackexchange.com/questions/2192/…

Gallifreyan

I'm here, thanks for those.

The Librarian is slow today.

literature.stackexchange.com/questions/158/…

literature.stackexchange.com/questions/508/…

literature.stackexchange.com/questions/1463/…

literature.stackexchange.com/questions/1898/…

Some of those might not be what you're looking for, but that's a bunch that might be :)

@Shokhet well, the kids are starting work soon and there will be some assisting people to help her in her old age ;)

@Mithrandir 🙄

Also, @Shokhet, HNQ: skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/38654/…

7:10 PM

@Mithrandir Nice! Thanks for letting me know; I always enjoy that :D

I think that every single Skeptics.SE question that doesn't get closed goes to HNQ.

7:26 PM

Could be. I don't spend a lot of time there.

(sorry, I'm discussing something with Monica about this Mi Yodeya troll and Smokey.)

@Mithrandir Huh. I haven't seen a Yodeya troll. (Then again, I've been starting most of my SE sessions here, rather than there, recently...)

@Gallifreyan I don't see anything telling me that there's a character limit, but there probably is one.

8:40 PM

Pertinent XKCD: xkcd.com/1217 — Shadur 2 mins ago

+1 for XKCD reference. — Shadur 2 mins ago

:)

@Shokhet that comment doesn't exist

Q: Is it time to discuss custom close reasons?

Hmm. Maybe someone flagged it as "too chatty"?

Librarian

9:09 PM

1

There comes a point in every beta site where custom close reasons are discussed and created. I have been with this site for a while (though not from the beginning), and I'd like to hear from the community at large whether we've reached that point. Are there many closed questions of a particular ...

discussion close-reasons

DukeZhou

10:44 PM

For those with an interest in dada and absurdism: area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/110447/…

(Would be a great place for homages to writers such as Beckett, Genet, Pinter, and even Stoppard;)