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00:00 - 11:0011:00 - 00:00

Bob
11:00 AM
you spend a lot of time waiting on locks. possibly longer than it would've taken to solve on fewer threads.
that's where lockless algorithms come in ... which are even easier to fuck up and introduce bugs into
 
Ashes of the Singularity does 16 threads (and Oxide Games can probably make it use even more threads with little difficulty), but that's an exception rather than the rule as most games are not this amenable to parallelization.
 
Bob
@bwDraco very much an exception with how it handles AI
more strategy games probably could take an aots-like path
don't get me wrong, I'd like to see more cores as long as single-thread perf isn't sacrificed in the process
 
AotS was designed from the ground up to be massively parallel. Most games are not like that.
 
Bob
but I'm not yet convinced that it'll be useful outside of a few specialised uses
gaming not being one of those
Feb 26 at 1:37, by Bob
Eh. AotS is a GPU benchmark disguised as a game.
s/GPU/CPU/
:P
They actually did end up improving gameplay in updates
The earlier versions were nigh-impossible. Crazy AI.
and the UI still sucks
I still take the red alert series as some of the best RTSes ever made
the controls in aots ... were terrible
 
@Bob Agreed.
The UI was just completely non-intuitive to me.
 
Bob
11:05 AM
I had so much trouble selecting multiple units...
and there's still no way to customise keyboard shortcuts
 
@Bob Hold Shift?
 
Bob
@bwDraco that's still manually selecting
red alert example: w to select all of same type on screen, w again to select across map
 
(sorry, haven't spent much time with AotS, but you can hold Shift while clicking and dragging the mouse to select multiple units or armies)
 
Bob
ra3: q to select all units of all types across map
units show up rouped on the right. right click a group to deselect
select all with q, deselect engineers => all fighting units
very smooth
even trying to click on a flying (circling) unit was nearly impossible
and you have to double-click to select all of type... try doing that on a fighter plane
@bwDraco aware of that, and that's the most rudimentary form of multiselect possible. it technically prevents it from being totally unplayable, but as far as RTSes go it's pretty poor.
We expect keyboard shortcuts for these things.
apparently at some oint they added a hotkey for all air units on screen. steamcommunity.com/app/507490/discussions/0/152390014798099721
but it *still *doesn't have all of type
what if I want to select one bomber and use that to select all other bombers w/ hotkey? I did that a lot in both red alert and age of mythology. very easy.
in aots? might as well send your fighters on a bombing run cause you can't easily select just one
> In Command & Conquer there are two hotkeys that I miss a lot on Ashes: one which selects absolutely every military unit you've got across the map. The other selects every unit on SCREEN of the same type of ones you currently selected. That is better than double clicking because not only it's easier, but it opens to possibilitys like selecting some brutes and arches and then pressing the hotkey to select both the brutes and archers around the screen. That's not possible with double cliking. Additionaly, when you press that same hotkey again having selected already every unit of that kind o
 
I was thinking about possibly taking inspiration from how drawing/engineering programs handle groups of objects.
 
Bob
11:11 AM
quite literally exactly what I want :P
this Rafo_ guy. I agree with you!
 
It's not intuitive.
 
Bob
@bwDraco the shift select has been in every RTS since the dawn of time. It's the most basic form possible. It sucks.
@bwDraco hotkeys aren't meant to be intuitive. they're meant to exist for players who want more control.
and the RA3 tutorial (pretty short) actually did a great job of explaining the hotkeys
 
To be honest, it does really feel very clunky. The controls just don't make a lot of sense to me.
 
Bob
@bwDraco play RA2 and then RA3
 
In RTS games, workflow is a huge deal.
 
Bob
11:13 AM
well, some people don't like RA3. it is a bit cheesy :P
but it's worth trying
 
What? Chrome has customer help line? quora.com/…
 
Bob
heck, I'll buy you a copy
@Boris_yo no they don't. probable scam. definite spam. reddit.com/r/Scams/comments/4vpk38/…
 
@Boris_yo How often are you getting these messages? Specific site or all over the place?
If it's the latter, your machine's compromised.
 
> People who still live with their parents when they're 30 years old are not really adults.
lol
 
@Bob It's on Quora...
 
If it's the former, it's probably a server issue, but run a virus scan as a precaution.
 
Had it been scam the post would be flagged.
 
Bob
@Boris_yo I don't trust quora to flag shit.
They're filled with spam.
They encourage spam.
Quora is not Stack Exchange.
 
@Bob Hmmm. Once untouched paradise... now scam fest.
 
Bob
Quora is about as clean as the bottom of my shoe after that time i stepped in cat crap.
 
11:17 AM
Quora... Udemy... it happens to good of them.
 
Bob
I mean. This is blindingly obvious spam.
And do you know why I don't flag it?
Because I refuse to create a Quora account.
Account-wall your site? Well fuck you too!
 
Where's Pepperidge farm meme when you need it...
@Bob Account-wall?
Oh right!
Yeah. Hate this.
I opened account because some story sucked me in. I had to read past introduction...
 
Bob
@Boris_yo I read Stack Exchange sites. I liked it. I wanted to join in. I created an account. So far I've apparently reached ~5m people.
I tried to read Quora. It demanded I create an account. I closed the tab.
 
the crazy ai reminds me of this video of a bot in starcraft
 
@Bob I made to go past with Incognito at first but you are limited to few views before you hit the account-wall.
 
11:21 AM
micromanaging zerglings so only one gets shot.
 
> Being grown up is very rare and you might only see it a few times in your life. [...] Being [an adult] requires "the look." When you look into an adult's eyes and see wariness, regret, stern impassiveness, but most of all, intelligence.
this child has studied adults closely
 
@Bob right click - examine element - delete.
 
Bob
@satibel Why should I bother?
 
@satibel Wow. That's 1000% efficiency? Can human manage each unit? Must be best of the best cyberplayers...
 
Bob
(I know the workarounds. You an also go add a ?share=1.)
 
11:24 AM
I always rectangled entire squads. But managing each unit?
 
@Bob to be honest, I'm a sucker for the gamificatation aspect of it
 
yes you can micro, that's a big part of the game.
 
Bob
Last time I looked, it's just spam anyway. Might as well read metafilter.
@JourneymanGeek Same :P
But that kinda requires learning a bit about it first.
vs. pushing me into creating an account straight up. !!no
 
though it's an ai playing in the video @Boris_yo
 
I kinda only have two realistic short term goals here. Answer fun stuff and beat John T :p
(on the other hand, been grinding MSE hard)
Well as hard as I can with this job :p
 
11:28 AM
those are presumably humans
 
@Burgi My mom is always my home skillet biscuit
 
heh
 
The most important thing is, Intel is no longer able to price their HEDT processors as high as the market will bear like they did with the $1700 i7-6950X. Competition brings down prices. $2000 for 18C/36T is not excessively high IMO. The real stars of the show are the 8C, 10C, and 12C processors.
The 8C part has some PCIe lanes disabled, but 28 is plenty and the $599 price point is clearly targeted at Ryzen 7 1800X.
You're still paying lots of money for these extra cores, but Intel isn't free to charge excessive prices anymore.
This is a textbook example of how monopolies are bad for the consumer: competition keeps prices in check, and when there's no competition, there's no need for the monopoly to charge sane prices.
 
11:47 AM
Without responsibilities, adults would be just like kids but much taller.
 
truth
 
depends, they still need to charge optimum prices, because if they charge too much, nobody would buy it unless absolutely necessary.
 
12:19 PM
they have armed police outside fracking greggs now :(
 
@Burgi maybe they are buying their lunch?
 
SBM
Oh
 
@Burgi there was a armed robbery at a greggs here.
xD
 
its a little unnerving, walking around the coner and coming face to chest with a 9 foot tall copper carrying a HUGE machine gun
 
:D
SUPERcop
 
12:27 PM
lol
> The robot has a touchscreen chest, two arms and a head. For the past 10 days it has offered blessings in a choice of German, English, French, Spanish or Polish. Worshippers can choose between a male or female voice.

The robot raises its arms, flashes lights, recites a biblical verse and says: “God bless and protect you.” If requested, it will provide a printout of its words. A backup robot is available in case of breakdown.
 
Ok, that's just 70s whovian
 
So... with Skylake-X a reality, I was wondering if I could cost-optimize Lucifer without sacrificing scalability. This X99 build simulates an X299 build with an 8C processor and high-end EATX motherboard, but there's precious little room left for cost-cutting and I'd rather not have to replace the system SSD later in the system's life.
For the life of me, I cannot bring the cost down to inside of $3000.
Feb 26 '15 at 23:49, by DragonLord
Lucifer is reserved for an Intel HEDT build (possibly up to the LPC class)
Regardless of the cost optimizations, the scalability has to be there, and I do not want to wind up replacing the motherboard, case, PSU, or boot SSD absent hardware failure.
 
What does scalability mean in this context?
 
12:41 PM
@bwDraco are you talking to someone?
yeah
I have no clue what you're on about tbh :/
 
Just some thoughts on system design.
 
My thoughts come down to: screw intel.
 
@JourneymanGeek I want the system to be upgradeable to a true extreme enthusiast desktop without any compromises anywhere.
 
But you also want it to be cheap?
 
@bwDraco EATX kinda makes no sense to me
and er...
 
12:43 PM
cheap != no compromise
 
I started with a dell I picked up off a dumpster ;p
 
@bwDraco Needs a bigger PSU!
 
@OliverSalzburg It was originally 1500W.
 
and if I was going to build a new box from scratch, I'd consider going MATX in a full ATX case
 
And how are you simulating an 8C CPU with a 6C CPU? :D
 
12:44 PM
cause I'm using a single (beastly) GPU and I've never gone past 2 sticks of ram....
 
@OliverSalzburg Cost.
The i7-7820X is priced at $599.
 
@Burgi you watched latest yet?
 
I picked a very similar system recently: pcpartpicker.com/user/oliversalzburg/saved/whyrHx
Haven't ordered it yet though :(
 
you can shave off the mobo, there are 300-350 bucks mobos that would do what you need.
 
@djsmiley2k yeah it was a bit crap
 
12:46 PM
I'm not designing a box till I get a job I know I'm staying in ;)
 
the first half had so much promise
 
I don't take assigning the name Lucifer lightly, so even if the performance isn't there, it needs to be readily upgradeable to that level without the need to replace the foundation it's built on.
 
But nyx has been a champ so far
 
SBM
I don't even think I'd be able to pay fees forget upgrading PCs
 
@Burgi hmmmm
how do you defeat the doctor tho
you simulate being defeated by him, over and over again...
 
12:47 PM
@bwDraco I thought the same when I picked the system. But even when I add another GPU (which is actually highly unlikely), 750W is plenty. Not saying that this is true for you, but I made the same overestimation in the past and it was never worth it
 
but they defeated him in the simulation
 
Also consider a modular PSU. If you need a bigger one, just replace the PSU block, plug your cables back in, and you're golden
 
@Burgi ....
which simulation? :D
 
It'll save you like $150 which you can spend on drugs or something
 
@OliverSalzburg It is modular. I'm not too sure about cable compatibility, though...
 
12:49 PM
I really feel like that it would've been a nice question at least related to computer science. Should've withheld my comment? :/ superuser.com/questions/1214293/…
 
If the cables are compatible, I could safely drop to 850W and cut out another $100 or so.
 
Also, why is the doctor bothered about being burnt by his bomb @Burgi - he knew Bill would break and make the deal
He would of chosen not to tell her anything.
 
@bwDraco Oh, I meant, you'd want to get the same manufacturer probably. But it is my understanding that the modular cables are pretty standard
As in, you can buy braided cables individually and they never have to confirm manufacturer of the PSU or anything
 
@djsmiley2k i just don't think it was as engaging as the previous episodes
 
12:50 PM
If you look at e.g. cable mods it does seem to make a difference between brands for modular cables.
 
@Seth Deleted at the OPs request.
 
...I suppose I could just drop to the i7-7800X (6C/12T Skylake-X @ 3.5-4.0 GHz, $389) if the plan is to replace the CPU in the future. Perhaps I could also reduce RAM to 16GB of DDR4-2400.
 
@bwDraco I don't get the appeal of AIOs. If you want liquid cooling at least go for it for reals.
Oh now it's completely gone? Thanks @DavidPostill . I still feel like I kind of did something bad to the question. sigh Well, such is live.
@bwDraco Another friendly reminder for you ultra high end builders about to build if you really want to go all high end maybe wait for a bit.
 
SBM
AIOs ...?
 
AllInOne
 
12:54 PM
@Seth Its kinda off topic anyway
 
@Seth It was a bad question - and completely off-topic for SU. The OP can post it again elsewhere if he wishes.
 
@SBM All-in-one or closed-loop liquid cooler, basically a preassembled liquid-cooling system sold as a single, ready-to-install unit.
 
SBM
Oh those awful anti future PCs
 
'no no
 
Thanks for the input, but of you.
 
12:55 PM
Not the whole PC
the cooler and radiator is one unit
rather than plumbing liquid cooling yourself
 
The cooler and radiator is always one unit. The pump gets integrated and you don't need a reservoir (which kind of is optional anyway ... if you're hardcore).
Minor difference but important ... last build I planned had liquid cooling until I thought about maintenance.
 
EKWB has an intermediate solution that is preassembled but can be expanded to a custom loop. The Predator line seems to have been discontinued, but a replacement is probably on the horizon.
Gotta go soon.
 
The downside to AIOs is that you don't see if you have any build up etc. except if you monitor your temps constantly. The upside is that (assuming they are fine) they require less maintenance.
 
The only maintenance of my PC that I want to be doing is when I lift it out of its spot to replace it with a new build
 
So how often do you replace it with a new build?
 
1:00 PM
lol
 
I usually try to get some dust out of the system every year or two years.
 
I upgraded this one quite a bit
 
@Seth ~5years IIRC
 
@Seth why is having no res optimal?
 
I think this system will be hitting 5 years this year
but upgraded it with a 980TI and a newer SSD
 
1:03 PM
optional not optimal. Filling a loop without a res is going to be a really painful process but would probably be possible. Hence it's kind of optional. I'd guess you'd only do it for a show build or something. Essentially you'd be going for a closed loop DIY.
 
and I guess the reservoir gives somewhere to bleed out the system?
 
You could do it that way (though from what I read it's better to have a actual valve near the lowest point) but primarily it's easier to fill as you have a spot in your system for the exchange of liquid and air that has big enough holes for it to work easily. Usually you'd fill your res with liquid (say 500 ml?), run the pump half a second, fill it again, run the pump, fill it and so on until you got enough liquid in the loop in order to let the pump run constantly.
After that you can do all kinds of Voodoo to get the rest of the air out of your system and top off with liquid.
Need to go for now. Have a nice day everyone.
 
1:31 PM
GUYS!
I'm at this awesome bookshop
 
you have a new girlfriend?
 
Any book recommendations? The books here are cheap...
 
hitchhikers guide to the galaxy
 
@Burgi she will have to wait, I'm going to spend time with books in the near future
@Burgi have it
 
all of terry pratchetts discworld series
anything written by alistar reynolds
omfg.... we have an email form on a customers site. it gets sent to their default group email (info@) and for reasons only known to them they insist on also having individuals in the to field as well. they asked for one user to be removed, we did it two weeks ago now they are complaining the user is still receiving emails
guess what... the user is the info@ group
 
1:35 PM
@Rahul2001 so long and thanks for all the fish
 
facepalmdesk
 
errr
the dirk gently books
 
+1
 
@Burgi lol
 
I need titles, not authors
 
1:37 PM
wtf?
 
...
i enjoy alll the stephen king books personally
 
Yeah, the guy knows the titles if the books he has
There is no proper arrangement
 
yikes
just grab a pile of random books
 
wikipedia
 
@djsmiley2k at least too lazy to not remove "shareimprove this answer answered Jun 1 '15 at 21:51"
oh, ok, just copy paste the accepted answer.
 
yeah
aka a spammer
:P
or something else odd.
 
bye folks
 
@Rahul2001 probably like a CPS-like thing for domestic abuse, or if it is a suicide hotline it's probably aimed at teens.
 
2:34 PM
in the UK those sort of lines are free from mobiles and don't show up on the bill at all
 
2:56 PM
allllll the reps.
 
3:08 PM
lol
 
New ASUS ROG board designation for AMD HEDT (Ryzen Threadripper): Zenith.
 
@bwDraco you should get a job with AMD's marketing department
 
This complements the Crosshair line for AMD mainstream boards.
 
@bwDraco man, if you could put into a job the amount of effort you spend on this
you'd be sorted, not sure what kind jorb tho :/
maybe you should have your own site.
 
Marketing Analyst
 
3:12 PM
Well, well. The SP3 socket is going to be tricky to work with. The cover is secured with Torx screws. Then again, it was originally designed for server processors...
(the correct term is "load plate"; see Intel LGA115x processor installation instructions)
 
> Measure and report on the performance of the entire AMD Radeon graphics product line, plus relevant competitors, using industry standard benchmarks, 3D games, and other relevant tests.
yes it means moving to canada but on the plus side it means moving to canada
 
3:35 PM
The official name for the new socket? Socket TR4. wccftech.com/…
 
@bwDraco yey free screwdrivers for everyone! \o/
 
You can't be serious, Intel. After the i7-7700K TIM issue, you continue to use low-quality thermal paste for the X-series?
 
SBM
Oh
 
headdesk
 
3:51 PM
so @bwDraco are you applying?
 
No
 
why not?
 
Because Canada.
 
free healthcare
 
As much as I hate Trump, I seriously doubt it's worth it.
 
3:53 PM
and you will get paid to do what you are currently doing for free
 
4:11 PM
/me nods
apply
they might go 'oh we do have a position here.... (indicates somewhere you might like)
What's the worst that could happen? They go 'Will you come and work for us in Canada' and you go 'Nope.'
I know this is stupid as I won't even apply for jobs in manchester
 
they have an opening for bag checker at the arena...
too soon?
 
... :O
 
4:44 PM
Japan is weird?
 
5:04 PM
@Boris_yo I'm sure you mean awesome.
 
everything is awesome!
 
'lo
 
'hey
 
'ho
'LETSGO
 
5:19 PM
'ok
 
5:39 PM
'halt
'sudo halt
 
' is a comment line in VB
 
' death to VB
 
'yes
 
@Boris_yo I need to torrent this soon.
lol, I broke it XD
'sorry
@ThatRussianGuy Is this Generator Rex or Super Robot monkey team. I forget.
 
@Nick that's illegal.
none of us ever does that
it's all linux distros I swear
2
 
@Avery I think I'm the only person I know who doesn't pirate stuff
 
I don't only pirate movies.
And that's only because all movies are easily available here and not put on cinemas months after bluray release is out on western countries.
And our netflix doesn't suck.
 
even for actually downloading Linux distros I don't use BT because it's usually stupidly slow on my connection; my uplinks generally can't handle the huge number of open connections that BT uses, compared to HTTP, which is very efficient
 
WRONG
HTTP through BT is possible
 
6:08 PM
@allquixotic I am too lazy to do that
 
and is deployed by most distros
 
"HTTP through BT", but with only one TCP connection to the endpoint? or many?
 
one
 
because the literal problem I've encountered with some of my uplinks is that the number of open TCP sockets exceeding about 500 causes massive slowdowns; I guess they don't handle TCP flows very efficiently or don't have much space in their stateful firewall for them
@Avery then it's not true BT; true BitTorrent would require you to have many connections to many different peers. If you just have one connection to one peer (or to the distro's super-seed or whatever), you're basically doing exactly the same thing as downloading cdimage.ubuntu.com/...whatever, but using a thick client instead of your web browser.
 
I know
but said thick client can resume downloads, verify integrity and download only the corrupted parts.
 
6:12 PM
any HTTP download manager worth its salt supports resume natively; I know some browsers still don't, but there are extensions that support it too. Anyway my connection has fortunately been stable enough in recent years that I almost never need to resume even large downloads.
As for verification, doesn't basically every (good) distro ship a built-in verify command in the GRUB bootloader of the CD image now?
you'll need that anyway even if the download is fine, because of the chance of corruption during transfer to the install media.
as for only downloading corrupted parts... meh. TCP is a reliable protocol with built-in checks that aren't infallible but eliminate the vast majority of data corruption (it automatically requests a resend if the checksum fails), especially if you aren't resuming a download (resume is somewhat dodgy in that respect). I think I last had a corrupted download over TCP that wasn't the fault of the server sending bad data, back when I had a dial-up modem.
maybe if FF or Chrome implement some kind of a binary diff or chunk based download protocol (whether "BT" or something else entirely) out of the box, it could be an improvement for everyone, as you'd get "free" (automatic) file-level checksumming and easy self-healing. But it's not worth dragging around an extra thick client for me, when I only use it for downloading ISOs once or twice a year, and no other sites support that.
Kinda reminds me of those awesome new image formats that have come out since PNG/JPEG were invented. BPG and WebP. If anybody actually adopted and used them besides 0.001% of websites, they'd be fantastic. Chicken and the egg problem for adopting new, (better) standards.
 
6:54 PM
@allquixotic I run linux.
i don't have any pirate software.
 
7:13 PM
same
 
7:42 PM
I've never pirated a single Android app.
2
 
7:58 PM
I've never pirated a single Win- nope. Lin- nope. Mac- nope. Or And- nope. Or iO- nope. Or Windows Pho- nope. FreeBSD app.
is compiling a paid and open source app to use it free piracy or not?
I believe it's not
then I didn't pirate anything on mac or linux
 
@Avery Nope. If it really is Open Source, rather than Source Visible.
If you have an example available to choose from. sounds like a good question for the OpenSource site
 
it's aseprite
yes
I'm playing with 50000$ in stocks but can't buy a 15$ app
 
8:26 PM
Was gonna say 'xchat'?
silverx build
Also, winrar? :D
 
8:47 PM
I use linux
15$ thing is aseprite
 
@Avery not real satocks
 
it's noit your money tho
 
true
 
9:21 PM
^ This is what the Core i9 18C/36T processor reminds of.
 
10:13 PM
it probably will cost about the same
 
10:31 PM
@tereško $1,999 is the price set by Intel.
That's a 1000-unit price; retail is going to be a bit higher (I'd expect around $2149).
Clock frequencies have not been finalized.
 
11:05 PM
@djsmiley2k the silverex build is dead
 
ytp = insta watch
 
11:42 PM
@Bob discourse.tt-rss.org/t/… classic gothfox. Also some NSFW language
 
Bob
11:58 PM
@JourneymanGeek yea, saw that :P
 
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