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Mitch
Mitch
12:04 AM
@Cerberus To Tonepoet's point, I'm not happy that the euphemism didn't work (which leads to a euphemism becoming a dysphemism and so the treadmill. But I'd rather the attempt be made to come up with a better term than the existing epithet stay that way. There is little evidence of a word remaining in common use and losing its dysphemistic character. Even 'colored', after long disuse, can elicit shock (and even though 'of color' sounds so similar and is ungainly too).
True, taboo terms like 'shit' and 'fuck' are more common in media and so may have lost some of their sting. Is that more of a cultural things or linguistic (but maybe that distinction doesn't matter)
 
Tonepoet
Tonepoet
@Mitch People usually associate those words with two different varieties of bird, so that doesn't prove much of anything in our case. Moreover, the hatred for the pigeon is not universal by any stretch of the imagination, no matter what Futurama might lead you to believe. Some people love to go feeding pigeons in the park, and then there's Bert:
 
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
 
Tonepoet
Tonepoet
If anything, it's more like the perceived distinction between a white person and a black person than it is replacing a presumed pejorative.
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
@Mitch So you're proposing that we run along with the treadmill forever? To me, that shows the absurdity of it all.
 
Tonepoet
Tonepoet
12:27 AM
Oh and I almost forgot, Hatoful Boyfriend! How could I!
Hatoful Boyfriend
Hatoful Boyfriend: A School of Hope and White Wings (Japanese: はーとふる彼氏 〜希望の学園と白い翼〜, Hepburn: Hātofuru kareshi ~kibō no gakuen to shiroi tsubasa~) is a Japanese dōjin soft otome visual novel released in 2011 for Microsoft Windows and OS X. It was developed by manga artist Hato Moa's dōjin circle PigeoNation Inc., and is the successor of a Flash game of the same name she created for April Fools' Day in 2011. A free demo version of Hatoful made with the FamousWriter engine was released later that year, followed by a full commercial version released on 30 October 2011 at COMITIA 98, and an English...
 
 
4 hours later…
Jason Bourne
Jason Bourne
4:52 AM
@Mitch They are usually printed and packed much more nicely than when ordered from Amazon. Sometimes, the price is better too. They also have an equally wide range of books, including math books.
 
Tonepoet
Tonepoet
@Mitch I saw the Middle Earth encyclopedia on Book Depository and it's a tempting purchase. It's much larger than the actual Lord of the Rings trilogy.
 
Jason Bourne
Jason Bourne
@Tonepoet Then give in to your temptations.
 
Tonepoet
Tonepoet
@JasonBourne Too much to do and too little time unfortunately, in addition to the expense.
 
Jason Bourne
Jason Bourne
@Tonepoet Encyclopedia is a word where the Oxford spelling is the American one.
@Tonepoet I watched a Japanese drama series where the boyfriend is a robot.
 
Tonepoet
Tonepoet
@JasonBourne I can think of two possible reasons for that. The first is that the ligatures are hard to write. The other is that it might be a jab at their rivals over at Brittanica Inc., which owns Merriam-Webster.
 
Jason Bourne
Jason Bourne
5:06 AM
@Tonepoet Well, they don't need any ligatures. They just have to write it as encyclopaedia. I think the spelling is Britannica.
 
Tonepoet
Tonepoet
@JasonBourne That's true I suppose, but the Britannica has used ligatures for a long time and they were the de-facto encyclopedia worldwide, so if you are going to use the ae spelling, you may as well.
 
 
3 hours later…
Leaky Nun
Leaky Nun
8:26 AM
There's a regressive assimilation in Spanish: /s/ followed by a voiced consonant becomes [z].
Korean also has regressive assimilation: stops followed by nasal consonants become nasal stops (e.g. /pn/ becomes [mn]).
 
 
5 hours later…
Mitch
Mitch
1:29 PM
@Cerberus I'm having trouble understanding that. I'm not saying the treadmill is a thing to be avoided because the treadmill itself is a bad thing (I don't think the treadmill is itself bad). Whatever leads to the treadmill may be bad or it may not.
Maybe I'm being antediluvian but I think shit is gross whatever you call it.
 
Færd
Færd
1:50 PM
> 1. You're ABsolutely wrong!
2. You're absoLUTely wrong!
How do you say it?
 
M.A.R.
M.A.R.
Is that like a show?
"Today on How do you say it? . . . "
@Færd I can't imagine myself saying the first one
@Mitch shit is gross? Shit.
 
Færd
Færd
@M.A.R. Me, the second.
Quite different from when you use it as a one-word response meaning definitely!, though.
 
M.A.R.
M.A.R.
@Færd You mean you always say the first one?
 
Færd
Færd
But I was interested mainly in native speakers' opinions.
@M.A.R. Not in one-word responses to strongly agree with someone.
 
M.A.R.
M.A.R.
Don't worry, Mitch reads transcript
@Færd As an alternative, you can shout ABSOLUTELY to make them decide where you put the stress.
Ambiguity is artistic.
 
Mitch
Mitch
2:10 PM
@Færd there are two points of stress in that word (the two in your alternatives). Scholars tend to say there is one with primary stress and then another with secondary. in normal speech... shoot I don't know. Both work fine for me.
 
M.A.R.
M.A.R.
Oh, I was expecting it's something like that
 
Mitch
Mitch
@M.A.R. Exactly!
 
user285oo6
user285oo6
3:04 PM
@Cerberus How to be more specific with the question
 
Tonepoet
Tonepoet
3:18 PM
@Mitch I think Cerb. is asking why you don't think the endlessness of the cycle is sufficient proof of futility. Is that right @Cerberus ?
 
englishstudent
englishstudent
4:12 PM
@Mitch Love that juxtaposition.
@Mitch "taboo terms like 'shit' and 'fuck' are more common in media". I thought they were common in real life too with the same frequency if not more.
 
zhk
zhk
Hello guyz

Any one interested in Maple a computational software then please join us here

http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/107315/maple
 
englishstudent
englishstudent
@Mitch There are always a few pigeons present in my bedroom windows, from like early morning to late afternoon. But I hate them when they fight or make noise. Have you ever seen pigeons fight? And no, I would rather not record a video of them fighting.
There is also a white pigeon among them, and I think that's a male because unlike humans birds have gorgeous males I hear.
Now I think I shouldn't have used "gorgeous" there. Any other word? Hmm... "attractive" maybe.
 
Mitch
Mitch
5:13 PM
@englishstudent yes, they are more common in real life, but still shocking and taboo, just less so than in the past. and by 'more common' I don't mean 'common', I just mean more common than before. On the other hand some comedians punctuate with profanity like a freshman college student and semi-colons.
@englishstudent I thought those were doves.
It's funny, when I hear doves cooing, I turn to look and all I see are pigeons.
 
M.A.R.
M.A.R.
Dove (toiletries)
Dove is a personal care brand owned by Unilever originating in the United Kingdom. Dove products are manufactured in Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Canada, China, Germany, India, Indonesia, Israel, Ireland, Mexico, Netherlands, Pakistan, Philippines, Poland, South Africa, Thailand, Turkey, and United States. The products are sold in more than 80 countries and are offered for both women and men. Dove's logo is a silhouette profile of the brand's namesake bird. Vincent Lamberti was granted the original patents related to the manufacturing of Dove in the 1950s while he worked for the Lever brothers...
 
Mitch
Mitch
@englishstudent In the city, don't look too close at pigeons. From a distance they are indistinguishable from doves, but up close you'll notice a missing toe, a mangled wing, what the hell is that hanging from its face, oh my god it doesn't have an entire foot.
@M.A.R. Doves are going down the euphemism toilet
 
M.A.R.
M.A.R.
@Mitch That's radioactive pigeons
 
Mitch
Mitch
Dove (chocolate)
Dove (sold as Galaxy in the United Kingdom, Isle of Man, India, Indonesia, Ireland) is a brand of chocolate made and marketed by the Mars company. Dove produces a wide range of chocolate bars, including dark chocolate, milk, caramel, fruit and nut varieties, truffle and chocolate pieces with a folded milk chocolate center. == History == The name comes from Dove Candies & Ice Cream, which were Chicago sweet shops owned by Leo Stefanos, a Greek-American. In 1956, Stefanos created the Dove brand of ice cream bars, which were only sold locally in Chicago until 1985 when distribution began in selected...
@M.A.R. which reminds me of a great joke
Why does a flamingo stand on one leg?
 
M.A.R.
M.A.R.
@Mitch How big is it?
@Mitch No, they sleep on one leg
 
Mitch
Mitch
5:22 PM
Because if they picked it up, they'd fall over
hilarity ensuing
 
M.A.R.
M.A.R.
HARIHARHAR
What a funny guy, Mitch.
 
Jason Bourne
Jason Bourne
5:50 PM
Hello.
 
M.A.R.
M.A.R.
Jello.
 
Tonepoet
Tonepoet
 
Tonepoet
Tonepoet
6:09 PM
I mean strictly speaking, they're in the same bird family, but unless you make further specifications that is what I am certain most people will assume. The difference between the two birds is more or less unmistakable, given that the rock pigeon has more complex patterns and darker shading than the white dove, which earned its epithet by entirely having pure white feathers.
 
Mitch
Mitch
Ooh another joke...
What's the difference between Canadians and Americans?
Canadians know what the difference is, Americans don't
 
Tonepoet
Tonepoet
@Mitch How they pronounce the name of the letter Z?
 
M.A.R.
M.A.R.
@Mitch Eh?
 
englishstudent
englishstudent
@Tonepoet Wow, just wow! I mean "footfucks". Dude! If only we had a live pigeon in our chats, they would be offended. xD
 
Tonepoet
Tonepoet
@englishstudent I honestly didn't notice that.
 
M.A.R.
M.A.R.
6:23 PM
Pigeonist.
 
englishstudent
englishstudent
Hah.
 
Mitch
Mitch
6:43 PM
@M.A.R. The difference between them is that one of them knows the difference but the other doesn't. Get it?
 
M.A.R.
M.A.R.
@Mitch You're explosive today.
 
Mitch
Mitch
And again...
Why are so many functional programmers either libertarians or socialists?
Because they have strong feelings about state
Because they have strong feelings about state
 
Johan Larsson
Johan Larsson
haha
 
Mitch
Mitch
hahahaha
 
Johan Larsson
Johan Larsson
should have been one message for starring
 
Mitch
Mitch
6:49 PM
There you go
 
M.A.R.
M.A.R.
Oh no
Now there are two.
 
Mitch
Mitch
Oh yeah!
 
M.A.R.
M.A.R.
Star farmer.
 
Johan Larsson
Johan Larsson
mitch is one of the best writers on the internet
oo-tards should be socialists, fp-guys anarchists
 
Jason Bourne
Jason Bourne
Hello @JohanLarsson, long time.
 
Johan Larsson
Johan Larsson
6:54 PM
hej
@Mitch are you a java man?
 
Mitch
Mitch
@JohanLarsson look man I'm just copying from some random thing I saw in the web. I didn't think it all through. socialists are totally stateful
object oriented isn't about state as much as it is about 1-modularity (encapsulating features in classes) and 2- sharing features (functions and data) among classes (class hierarchy)
@JohanLarsson I have lived that life, yes.
Look man, if it compiles, ship it.
everything's been done before
there's nothing new under the sun
it's not even new to say nothing's new.
Ha! That was a new thing to say.
Dammit, can't say it truthfully anymore.
 
Johan Larsson
Johan Larsson
7:10 PM
there is a reason they put ew in new
 
gerrit
gerrit
7:50 PM
Weird: Irish newspaper spells UK Labour party "Labor": irishcentral.com/news/politics/…
 
Færd
Færd
@Mitch Thanks.
I was aware of the weak stress in the word; I just wanted to highlight its strong stress.
I still have a hunch that absoLUTely isn't normally used mid-sentence.
 
MetaEd
MetaEd
8:21 PM
@Mitch So the solution to world conflict is a finite state machine?
 
tchrist
tchrist
8:47 PM
> Anonymous: What's the best country to ask for asylum in out of Israel, Saudi Arabia, Russia, and the Philippines?
I kinda like the "in out of" prepositional cascade bit.
 
MetaEd
MetaEd
@tchrist "Who was that window washer I saw that gentleman I saw that lady I saw you with with with?"
 
tchrist
tchrist
@MetaEd Yeah but that one doesn't lend itself to the same answer of "We don't care so long as you send Air Force One home without you."
 
MetaEd
MetaEd
HA!
 
Mitch
Mitch
9:42 PM
@MetaEd I don't get it.
But you'll be sure to get this:
A SQL query goes into a bar and walks up to two tables and asks "Can I join you?"
 
MetaEd
MetaEd
I don't get it.
Are the tables on the patio?
 
Mitch
Mitch
sigh
Let me roll back that one
 
MetaEd
MetaEd
Because outer join.
 
Mitch
Mitch
What? I hardly knew her.
 
MetaEd
MetaEd
Does the place have a window?
 
Mitch
Mitch
9:44 PM
@JohanLarsson OK. I don't get that one either
@MetaEd Maybe. Let's say that it does.
 
MetaEd
MetaEd
10:06 PM
@Mitch Probably need to remove the partition then.
Then you can join the tables.
You should probably be committed.
 
 
1 hour later…
Mitch
Mitch
11:19 PM
@MetaEd You'd have to check it out first
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
@Mitch OK so it's not concerning to you.
To me, it shows how absurd the effort is.
Not something I would want to encourage.
 
Mitch
Mitch
someone?
so you'd prefer not to encourage euphemizing to begin with?
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
@Tonepoet That's right. And of absurdity, a sign that you're going the wrong way.
@Mitch Indeed, I would discourage it.
Euphemisms also make everything ugly and dishonest.
 
Mitch
Mitch
I don't get that. They're trying to remove ugliness. and if it is dishonest (I don't think it is) euphemizing is choosing the nicer side of a coin
why choose the mean one?
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
@user285oo6 1. This is still far too broad and too open. 2. It's not specifically about English: handwriting itself it not about English.
@Mitch It's dishonest in that it is trying to throw a veil at something in order to cover it up.
 
Mitch
Mitch
11:33 PM
@Cerberus handwriting is not by itself off topic, but certainly questions about how to improve one's is.
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
And that is ugly: truth is important in art.
 
Mitch
Mitch
@Cerberus so you'd prefer 'shit' over 'stool'?
each has its place
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
Sometimes, it is worth the price of ugliness and dishonesty.
 
Mitch
Mitch
and you'd prefer 'nigger' over 'black?
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
All in moderation.
But, generally, a euphemism is a bad thing. You need a good reason for it, at least.
And a treadmill all but invalidates the effort.
 
Mitch
Mitch
11:36 PM
@Cerberus I see in some instances there might be a better esthetic choice, but in general I don't think I'd prefer the dysphemism
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
The neutral middle choice.
Is also often present.
Or any gradient in between.
 
Mitch
Mitch
@Cerberus I think that's extreme. There are not that many treadmills, and really, is it covering up anything?
Sure administrativese can hide the seriousness of a subject, but that's not being PC, that is outright obfuscation.
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
If you make people change their natural choice of words in order to avoid something, that is like trying to cover something up.
Covering up an element of someone's natural language.
Whatever it be.
 

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