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12:36 AM
Q: Macvim shell command not working as expected

FrrankI recently switched to macvim, Everything work perfectly apart from the :shell or :sh. Shell have weird output, I tried few solutions but noting seems to me working out. :shell \n\w\n\u $ [72004h Solutions that I already tried. I add this to my .zshrc. 1: if [ $TERM == 'dumb' ]; then ...

4 hours later…
4:36 AM
@Moriambar I just looked at the question. I got goose bumps.
2 hours later…
6:10 AM
@DavidCarlisle I don't get the fish reference
@Johannes_B I knew you would like it
6:43 AM
@Moriambar put "so long and thanks for all the fish" into google:-)
@DavidCarlisle oh, Douglas Adams. I never read anything of his
I think it could be too "Monty Pythony"
@Moriambar quite possibly:-)
@DavidCarlisle Well so I think not reading him is the right choice for me :)
2 hours later…
8:47 AM
@DavidCarlisle or is he more like Terry Pratchett?
@Moriambar well it is an actual story with a beginning and an end so unlike MP in that sense, MP usually just being a stream of consciousness, Not actually ready any of the Terry Pratchett books, although I had some friends who were avid fans at one point.
@egreg Du kannst mich Frank anrufen.
9:05 AM
@DavidCarlisle oh I see. I can read pratchett but can only barely tolerate his humour. About Monty Python is their supposed humour that I don't get, thus feel bored by their works. Never watched more than 5 minutes. When I talked about MP and Douglas Adams I was referring to the humour style.
(and pratchett too)
9:26 AM
@Moriambar He has his own style. You could read the elogy of Richard Dawkins to get some impression. edge.org/documents/adams_index.html. I have read the hitchhiker and enjoyed it but it is a bit like a combination of various sketches. My preferred books from Adams are the two about Dirk Gently. "Last chance to see" is good too.
@UlrikeFischer do you like Monty Python humour?
@Moriambar Yes, not all of them - the later ones (after John Cleese left) are not so good. I like also Blackadder, and Terry Prachett (not all), and Asterix, and Gaston Lagaffe, and Gary Larson and xkcd.
Is it possible to have hyperref handle custom link schema? E.g., so that \url{CTAN:macros/latex/contrib/oberdiek/kvoptions.pdf} would link to CTAN mirror and the file?
@UlrikeFischer hm I hate Monty Python humour, as Blackadder. terry pratchett I tolerate as I said before. Xkcd I love, all the rest I don't know. I'm reading what you linked. Seems interesting, but not funny. But I think it's not supposed to be since it's a eulogy
9:44 AM
@Moriambar Douglas Adams isn't mainly about jokes. He had a very good science and computer background .
@UlrikeFischer Really? A friend of mine told me his works are hilarious. But again, he loves Monty Python and I always suspected his humour of being quite different from mine
but now you tell me he is not mainly about the jokes... interesting
Is it unreasonable to expect asd to be in italics in \emph{foo \textsc{asd} boo}? Is there a simple way to allow it to be in italics?
Why? I just wanted to make some acronyms a bit smaller, and used small caps for them. I now regret that.
@Szabolcs \textsc make it small caps... you want italic small caps (or possibly slanted ones)?
@Szabolcs does your font have italic small caps?
Never mind, it was a stupid question. It does not seem like a good idea to do this anymore.
suddenly I feel like quacking...
9:53 AM
@CarLaTeX awwww
10:33 AM
@DavidCarlisle Frank P. Karlislen
@PauloCereda See the images of this answer of mine: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/369065/… :)
@CarLaTeX ooh duck theorems
@PauloCereda Yay! :):):)
@egreg Mit deutscher Effizienz werde ich das xor Paket beenden
11:17 AM
@Moriambar Sure htere are witty but making jokes is not the main point. Get a sample of the Dirk Gently book and check for yourself.
11:34 AM
@UlrikeFischer oh thanks, too bad tonight I'm not home. I will check it tomorrow if I'm able, thanks
@DavidCarlisle Gut!
@DavidCarlisle You just needed a push
@UlrikeFischer one further question: are they "easy" (regarding the language)?
12:08 PM
@UlrikeFischer Oh I see "Johann Sebastian Bach" <3
12:42 PM
@Moriambar He is mentioned yes, but also Coleridge and Schrödinger.
@UlrikeFischer Coleridge, well, I do not have a strong opinion on him (I studied him as a poet, but I really dislike poetry; nevertheless I know he wrote also something else...); Schrödinger... who does not love him, except for his cat?
1:07 PM
@TeXnician I need to leave an opening for egreg to try to steal a tick. — David Carlisle 26 secs ago
@DavidCarlisle No time now. :( But a full fledged solution will arrive.
1:31 PM
hi @Paulocerda
@Frrank Hello!
/we need a Levenshtein ping...
Hi @PauloCereda yesterday @DavidCarlisle suggested that you are a vim experience user you mind if I ask one question.
@Frrank fire at will. :)
Q: Macvim shell command not working as expected

FrrankI recently switched to macvim, Everything work perfectly apart from the :shell or :sh. Shell have weird output, I tried few solutions but noting seems to me working out. :shell \n\w\n\u $ [72004h Solutions that I already tried. I add this to my .zshrc. 1: if [ $TERM == 'dumb' ]; then ...

Thank you @PauloCereda much appreciated
@Frrank Sadly I cannot test anything at the moment, but from the top of my mind, :sh does not invoke a real terminal, it's just a simple emulation layer of a process caller, thus escape sequences (like colours) are not correctly interpreted as such. It might be tricky to make it work because, well, it's not intended to work. :) You could use a terminal alternative. I used conque once in a while and it seems very nice.
1:41 PM
Sure Got it. Thank you @PauloCereda. One more thing. Am I asking right question?
@Frrank I think so, maybe the vim blokes in the vim.sx community have a better, more precise insight on this particular issue. It gets complicated for an editor to have the moral obligation to handle lots and lots of customized shell things (oh my zsh, oh my fish, bash it or other), so I am not sure the editor is actually the one to blame (of course @DavidCarlisle will always says it's vim fault), but rather a complicated setup. :)
lol I guess I'm going to switch to emacs pretty soon.
@DavidCarlisle ^^ it's your fault
@PauloCereda it's vim's fault
@Frrank on a more serious note, emacs is a great editor, and so is vim. The point here is, the editor needs to work for you and not the other way around. As long as you are comfortable with your setup, the editor you chose is surely irrelevant.
1:58 PM
@PauloCereda you are absolutely right. I use vi shell version without the gui and it works like a charm, but recently I tried macvim and faced with this miner bug due to my habit of not moving forward without solving issue I asked the community.
@Frrank MacVim is another beast. :) In my Mac, I'd rather use the original vim. IMHO it's two worlds that cannot overlap. :)
@Frrank: I use brew and I always have the last installment of vim in my Mac. :)
[paulo@cambridge ~] $ which emacs
alias emacs='vim'
@DavidCarlisle ^^ :)
@PauloCereda ooh is this internal vim wars like lucid emacs?
$ vim
bash: vim: command not found
@PauloCereda ^^
@DavidCarlisle ooh this is also news to me. :) I think MacVim is an attempt to bring the editor to the Mac world, in the sense of nice menus, GUI stuff and whatnot. I personally think it breaks the original philosophy behind the editor in the first place. :) Let me check the emacs counterpart, now I am curious!
@DavidCarlisle touchè, kind sir. :)
I also use brew. In my view It's more of a multiverse type of thing ie if you didn't override system vim on installing macvim your macvim will end up using your .vimrc and the color schemes, .zshrc and .tmux setting won't work unless you add .gvimrc.
@DavidCarlisle: speaking of internal vim wars, Tim Pope (one of the vim gurus) was very mad about NeoVim blocking one of his vim plugins by hardcoding a check in the editor. Let me find his tweet, it's harsh but amusing.
@Frrank oh I override everything. These things are natural enemies, like vim and emacs, vim and nano, and vim and vim. Damn vim users, they've ruined vim!
2:07 PM
@PauloCereda lucid emacs was a fork of emacs that later became xemacs but sort of the dead sea scrolls version of the church of emacs emacswiki.org/emacs/EmacsSchism
@DavidCarlisle: click the link and see the replies: twitter.com/tpope/status/862056835532161029
@PauloCereda sensible vim? what does that do, install emacs?
@DavidCarlisle you are naughty :)
@DavidCarlisle classic bash: vim: command not found. @PauloCereda in real vim and emacs have no competition. emacs is totally a different beast its like comparing shark with cheetah .
@Frrank Indeed. :)
I like Megalodons. :)
2:26 PM
@curlyhair welcome to chat. Nice first answer:-)
@curlyhair your icon flying in reminded me I have to fix that example in my answer. This one is possibly a bit artificial but is more correct that the one currently there....



@DavidCarlisle I'm finally working on image loading for L3, prompted by all of the driver stuff. Main aim is to have a version of all of the current code that actually fits together :)
@JosephWright then spot the lack of xgalley in the above example
2:58 PM
@DavidCarlisle :)
3:12 PM
Does anyone else see this:
... a paragraph separator unicode character in the code?
@Werner oh no, a potential DB collation error?
@PauloCereda I'm wondering about it...
@Werner :(
It shows it's been there since the beginning, just like the line-ending \\ issue.
@Werner here we go again
3:17 PM
@PauloCereda I'll ping Nick on his Meta answer...
@Werner Already did, but do it again to enforce those guys. :)
@PauloCereda You're on it!
My eyes show he's been away for 15 days.
Perhaps he's on holiday, so don't expect a response soon.
@Werner Let's annoy him. :) @JosephWright: could you mod ping Nick? :)
@Werner he's running away. :)
@PauloCereda Nick? Link?
@JosephWright ooh hold on
He is important, he has a diamond.
3:41 PM
@UlrikeFischer I read a bit of what you suggested. It seems a serious book, and well written too…
With serious I mean non-comedy or something like that
@Werner I don't see it as the font I'm using has that glyph (or firefox just automatically doesn't show it) but it is there:
  U+007d RIGHT CURLY BRACKET     &rcub; &rbrace; \rbrace
  U+0020 SPACE     \space
  U+0020 SPACE     \space
  U+0020 SPACE     \space
  U+0020 SPACE     \space
  U+000a LINE FEED (LF)     &NewLine;
@Werner so if you copied the code it wouldn't work:(
4:01 PM
@Werner or I wonder if it is something Herbert added, as it's here again
A: \index causing spurious whitespace

Herbertthat is the default behaviour, use it always this way: \noindent The Principle of Availability\\
 What\index{principle of availability} is said must be intuitively ...

A: Questions about \fbox

Herbertyou have to use a parbox if you want a linebreak inside fbox. E.g. with package varwidth: \fbox{\varwidth{\linewidth}%

@UlrikeFischer but then I read a review "if you like English humour, and a load of hilarious nonsense, this book is for yyou" I very much hate English humour, and "hilarious nonsense" are usually not that hilarious to me
4:27 PM
@Moriambar which shows that one shouldn't always believe reviews. And you shouldn't hate english humour.
5:03 PM
@UlrikeFischer and don't mention the w....
@DavidCarlisle ooh the wombat war
@DavidCarlisle Hmmm... It's been there since the first revision (original version).
@PauloCereda Wombats are great :-)
@Johannes_B they are!
5:19 PM
@PauloCereda So are penguins by the way.
@Johannes_B <3
And not to forget: Ducks. DUCKS
@PauloCereda <3 :-)
5:33 PM
@Johannes_B awww
5:47 PM
@UlrikeFischer well, I can't help it: I find it absolutely not funny, and something trying to be funny but not being it, if reiterated it annoys me.
Setting up a new Windows computer. #ifeellikeanidiot
@PauloCereda "breaks the philosophy" of being totally un usable intuitive?
@Moriambar sorry but "english humour" like "german humour" or "italian humour" is a wide field and sometimes it is funny and sometimes not. If you say that you hate all of the english humour it make the impression as if you have a quite narrow minded view of the world.
@AlanMunn you are mean. :)
@PauloCereda Aren't you supposed to be enjoying Madeira?
@AlanMunn next week. :)
5:59 PM
@UlrikeFischer Wer braucht tikz?
Hello everyone,

I don't know if it is a realistic question or not: is it possible to count the words in my document excluding footnotes, references, appendices, tables, figures and front matter?

It sounds ridiculous, but I am asked to do so.
@DiaaAbidou count in TeX or an external program?
@DiaaAbidou it's a FAQ there are several methods (there is no sensible answer but at least some of the methods may give a number that satisfies whoever is asking)
@PauloCereda The easiest way is the best for me.
@DavidCarlisle Thanks, I will take a look at it.
@DiaaAbidou texcount is certainly the smartest counter.
6:08 PM
@AlanMunn I am sorry, but is it software or package?
@AlanMunn new guaxinim? :)
@AlanMunn Never mind, I found it.
@DiaaAbidou It's a program that comes with TeXLive
@AlanMunn I would be grateful if you could give me a link explaining how to use it.
@PauloCereda Urubú is more like it.
6:13 PM

Das machine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben.  Ist easy schnappen
der springenwerk, blowenfusen und corkenpoppen mit spitzensparken.  Ist nicht
fur gewerken by das dummkopfen.  Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands
in das pockets.  Relaxen und vatch das blinkenlights!!!

[paulo@cambridge ~] $
My terminal right now...
@DiaaAbidou Basically just run texcount filename.tex in a terminal.
@AlanMunn In São Paulo there's a public transportation bus company named Urubupungá. I was once curious about the name and decided to investigate. The first part you already know, but the second part is really amusing: pungá is something along the lines of diarrhea in Guarani, so the whole word could be translated as urubu droppings. :)
@UlrikeFischer I'm not saying "I hate English humour" in the sense of "hate humor from England". I don't know if this is the same way in all the world but English humour here is considered a specific kind of humour, made mostly of puns, witty remarks, nonsensical jokes and so on. I found the definition very similar to what I found in what I watched of Monty Python (eg "romanes eunt domus", and "spam") as well as in some sketches of the two Ronnies (eg the "o"s)
@DiaaAbidou Or texcount -html -v filename.tex > filename.html which will produce an html file of the results.
@PauloCereda That's pretty funny.
@UlrikeFischer that kind of jokes simply do not amuse me, as I perceive them as something forcibly trying being funny and failing, hence, while I ignore it in the short run, in the long run it annoys me. Of course I may find something specific amusing, but I think it's rare. In the end I think that what is hilarious is a very very personal thing
6:18 PM
@TorbjørnT. I have most of the preamble in an external file and so are many files, this makes error show up. Is it a must to blend everything in a single file?
@DiaaAbidou Which error?
@DiaaAbidou If you do texdoc texcount you can find out more about what it can do.
Couldn't identify document class
couldn't recognize package list
@AlanMunn Thanks, I will do it.
@DavidCarlisle Buh. Cheating with low-level commands. And it doesn't work with xelatex ;-)
6:31 PM
@DiaaAbidou You still get a count, don't you? I must confess, I've mainly used it for single-file documents, so haven't really run into that problem I think.
@TorbjørnT. Yes, I got wordcount despite errors.
@UlrikeFischer it would work if I switched out pdfliteral for \special :-)
@AlanMunn vvv
$ texcount xii.tex

!!! Reached end of file while waiting for $. !!!

!!! Reached end of file while waiting for $$. !!!
File: xii.tex
Encoding: ascii
Words in text: 11
Words in headers: 0
Words outside text (captions, etc.): 0
Number of headers: 0
Number of floats/tables/figures: 0
Number of math inlines: 0
Number of math displayed: 1

@AlanMunn am I doing something wrong?
@DavidCarlisle one could also use only pgf -- this would count probably as "without tikz" too ;-)
@Moriambar note that that is not all English humour just one strand, in particular they all knew each other (parts of the MP team and the 2 Ronnies and etc) all go back to an influential group based around Cambridge student activity in the 1960s
6:54 PM
@PauloCereda I started translating for arara
do you want the user to be addressed with courtesy pronouns?
@DavidCarlisle I was waiting for this to show up. :)
@AlanMunn happy to oblige
@PauloCereda I see that the German translation uses informal pronouns
I'll go with that for Dutch for the time being
@Marijn Oh I really don't know the gist of each language...
@Marijn Do as your heart tells you, I trust your judgement. :)
@PauloCereda do you want an english translation using impolite pronouns?
7:04 PM
@DavidCarlisle e.g, please. :)
@DavidCarlisle @Moriambar and example of English humour. :)
it depends, if you want to appear hip and modern or rather dependable and stable
@PauloCereda I think you'd like a midlands localisation where you could refer to the user as "duck" as in an error message of the form: ay-up duck I think summut is up
but given that you refer to the tool as 'I' (like 'I could not compute the hash') I assume you prefer the hip and modern style :D
7:08 PM
@PauloCereda people in Norfolk don't call complete strangers "duck" (but they do where I come from:-)
@DavidCarlisle really?!
@PauloCereda yes
@DavidCarlisle oh my
@DavidCarlisle Thou shalt not use vim.
7:11 PM
@AlanMunn an edict that I shall follow with religious fervour
> Natalie Braber, a linguist from Nottingham Trent University who specialises in regional dialect, finds it interesting that "duck" can be used to address both men and women.
@AlanMunn ^^ look what your kind do. :)
@PauloCereda I'm not sure why she should find this surprising. It's not like 'duck' is gendered to begin with.
@PauloCereda I used to go there every week when I was 14-15 to bunk off games at school teach myself Fortran programming.
@AlanMunn :)
@DavidCarlisle ooh ducky
It was Trent Polytechnic in those days, but they are all "University" now.
7:15 PM
@DavidCarlisle Given the recent cuts, they're soon all going to be "college". What's happening at Manchester is awful.
@AlanMunn or flattened to make a car park
@AlanMunn My old University:-(
@DavidCarlisle: ay up me duck
No nay never no more
I'm going to regret having mentioned regional dialect to @PauloCereda
@DavidCarlisle I wub you <3
@DavidCarlisle Do you know of any "real world" example where this would occur? I was just wondering if it is worth to change my coding standard...
7:23 PM
@curlyhair it's probably more likely to occur after a section heading where the same thing applies, better to put \label in the argument, as that is more likely to be followed by a reasonable use of center or enumerate or a subheading. With \caption usually the thing that follows ought to be using something like \centering rather than center but people often do use center anyway.
@barbarabeeton an actual moving talking linguist: youtube.com/watch?v=Ll2SJJDVklQ
8:25 PM
@DavidCarlisle As promised
A: Random Page Numbers

egregJust for fun an implementation that doesn't require external programs and just needs two LaTeX runs. However, the pages will change at every subsequent run. \documentclass{article} \usepackage{xparse} \usepackage{zref-user,zref-abspage,atveryend} \usepackage{kantlipsum} % Coerce zref into not a...

@egreg Strange, a % missing. (At the beginning of a line though.)
@egreg now make it wok with \tableofcontents ?
@DavidCarlisle Why, it just works!
@egreg oh didn't try it, I thought you said the numbers changed each time?
@TorbjørnT. Thanks! A last minute addition in the edit window.
@DavidCarlisle Yes, it can't works like that. But the toc would be useless anyway.
8:37 PM
@egreg the table of contents works in my version
9:09 PM
@DavidCarlisle yes but here "english humour" means exactly that kind of humour which I perceive exactly how Hugh Laurie described in an snl monologue: "overly elaborated puns which will take days to understand, and with very little payoff". It does not refer to the English people, it's just a way to categorise that type of humour
@DavidCarlisle Now also in mine.
10 hours ago, by egreg
@DavidCarlisle Gut!
10 hours ago, by egreg
@DavidCarlisle You just needed a push
9:28 PM
@DavidCarlisle Did you finish xor in the meantime?
@egreg yes
@DavidCarlisle really?
9:44 PM
@yo' Glauben Sie nicht alles, was Sie im Internet lesen
@DavidCarlisle ah
9:57 PM
@yo' David je známý lhář
@egreg :)
@egreg Zavolám moderátora, aby oznámil takové zneužití
10:25 PM
@DavidCarlisle Hoping he understands Czech.
@egreg moderators have many powers (and we have a guest one visiting us now:-)
10:41 PM
@DavidCarlisle "zneužití" is a very strong word, like "abuse"
11:12 PM
@yo' the exact word that I passed to google translate had in mind.

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