TeX, LaTeX and Friends - 2017-05-10

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12:59 AM

Where did the LuaTeX sources go? The link at luatex.org/download.html goes to a site that requires a password (serveur-svn.lri.fr/svn/modhel/luatex), and there used to be an unofficial mirror at github.com/pgundlach/LuaTeX that has been deleted sometime in the last couple of weeks.

1:26 AM

ah nevermind, I found them here (foundry.supelec.fr/scm/?group_id=10). Maybe it was always this way.

6 hours later…

6:58 AM

@ShreevatsaR no that one is no longer updated the current sources are at lri

@ShreevatsaR the password is sort of not very secret but I don't know if it's exactly public so won't post here. I'll ask Hans/Luigi

7:35 AM

@AlanMunn That's exactly what I want. Thank you.

7:56 AM

@UlrikeFischer How does MikTeX handle executables in PATH (question here). Can they be run directly after installation?

@TeXnician Sorry but do you always speculate and confuse the people? There is no where command in windows, and the problem is not the path. After all pdflatex is found and getmap is at the same location? Can't you try to get some facts first?

@UlrikeFischer Well, a "Der Befehl "getmapdl" ist entweder falsch geschrieben oder konnte nicht gefunden werden." sounds for me like a path problem.

8:17 AM

@TeXnician Sorry I was a bit short as I wanted to stop you before you confuse the user even more. I want to say "the problem is not the path setting, and "getmap should be at the same location if installed correctly".

2 hours later…

10:09 AM

@CarLaTeX I actually fly on next Monday. :)

@CarLaTeX This duck is flying coach. :)

@DavidCarlisle: wait a minute, does onboard wi-fi exist?! OH MY

@PauloCereda hello! How is your battery?

@Moriambar AC at the moment. :) Yours? :)

@PauloCereda 95%, connected but not charging, thanks :) [phone 96%]

@Moriambar ooh

@PauloCereda my left-handed vertical mouse is running a bit low, I think I'll have to recharge it today

10:29 AM

@Moriambar 99% and 51% (iPad charge is slower)

@PauloCereda ... and on shaky bus...

@PauloCereda ... and have you already packed?

@CarLaTeX Shaky bus is an important part of the process. :)

@CarLaTeX Yes! And with a special luggage tag. :)

@PauloCereda I love your luggage tag! :):):)

@CarLaTeX <3

@Moriambar my smartphone 86%

10:59 AM

@DavidCarlisle While looking a the " invalid list tail," question I saw that plain luatex doesn't load the fontloader in the format. Is this intended? I thought to have read somewhere that it would be added there too -- but perhaps I'm imaging it.

I'M PLUGGING IN MY PHONE BUT THE BATTERY ON THE SCREEN ISN'T CHARGING

6

^^^ all the people looking at batteries currently.

@UlrikeFischer it isn't clear who "owns" plain luatex. ~~@JosephWright and I~~ the team could decide to make latex default to Unicode and load luaotfload in \everyjob, but it isn't clear if we (or anyone) can really make that decision for plain.

@DavidCarlisle So I had simply halluzinations that it was there too.

@DavidCarlisle Hans also has a version in the ConTeXt distro that is slightly different

@JosephWright yay fragmentation! Oh wait... :)

user image

11:03 AM

@UlrikeFischer No: we discussed it but for the plain formats 'as close as reasonable to DEK' seems a safe position

@JosephWright yes

@PauloCereda Really there for testing only

@JosephWright let's hope. :)

@JosephWright should be the case for all versions of plain:-)

@DavidCarlisle ooh wireless

11:05 AM

@PauloCereda with more than one bar

@DavidCarlisle Don't tell me the router is in your desk. :)

@PauloCereda no, but there is an ethernet cable at my desk just not worth fiddling around to plug it in:-) there is also this charger thing that is useful.

@DavidCarlisle ooh :)

@PauloCereda arara questions to be answered

@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle yes understood, I was only confused because I thought I had tried it some time ago and it worked. Could the babel documentation add an example about how to load babel and patterns in plain and plain luatex? I took me quite some time to find something that worked as the documentation mentiones plain everywhere but without concrete code.

11:13 AM

@UlrikeFischer As Javier ;)

@DavidCarlisle commented. :)

@PauloCereda on being trapped, it's a bit tricky but I think esc : w q should get you out.

@DavidCarlisle esc : q !, surely?

@DavidCarlisle Thank you for the info! Is there a post which explains the reason? Otherwise, I'll ask it, it could be interesting...

@CarLaTeX in is better than after — David Carlisle 6 mins ago

@DavidCarlisle And for unpacking LaTeX ;)

11:18 AM

@CarLaTeX I just added a link but:

10

A: When is leading/opening whitespace of a line in a tex file important?

The check program is clearly being over cautious (ie wrong) to say page breaks can always happen at spaces before \label. However the form you give is not optimal,. but for a different reason: If you put the \label after the caption (whether or not you leave a blank space or newline before it) t...

@DavidCarlisle Joseph is right. :)

@JosephWright :wq is safer. :)

@JosephWright ini-vir-tex works for that

@DavidCarlisle for a minute, I thought you were talking in Latin

@JosephWright I was stupidly imagining that he had some text that needed saving.

@egreg @CarLaTeX @DavidCarlisle thanks, now that I know your battery life I feel better :)

11:30 AM

@DavidCarlisle Does it mean that there are different schools of thought? :o

@CarLaTeX in the case there no, just right and wrong

@DavidCarlisle so you're saying I should always put the labels inside the captions?

@Moriambar yes

@DavidCarlisle great, many thanks! I did not know that

11:46 AM

🧖🏻‍♀️

So if I come back in a year I wonder if ^^ will display correctly

@DavidCarlisle a rectangle, a QFP-packaged IC, and the venus symbol?

@Moriambar Unicode 10 (emoji 5) "woman in steamy room: light skin tone" how have we managed without these symbols previously?

@DavidCarlisle indeed... well they're not displayed properly here

@Moriambar Unicode 10 is still in beta. But I posted a row of ducks when unicode 9 was beta which just looked like missing glyphs but it was only a few months before 🦆 looked like a duck.

@DavidCarlisle Sounds like they try to write some erotic literature with emoji.

11:55 AM

@DavidCarlisle why? I mean... I don't understand why they do these things :P

@UlrikeFischer or Harry Potter: half the new ones are wizards elves and mermaids... unicode.org/emoji/charts/emoji-released.html

@DavidCarlisle back to a script using pictures instead of letters.

Poor Shakespeare is rolling in his grave.

@PauloCereda unicode.org/emoji/charts/emoji-released.html#1f9db

@egreg ooo latino vampires! No me gusta sangre!

12:04 PM

@PauloCereda “I never drink… tequila”

@egreg LOL

@PauloCereda And we will be able to play curling unicode.org/emoji/charts/emoji-released.html#1f94c while eating a pretzel unicode.org/emoji/charts/emoji-released.html#1f968

@egreg ooh and we can also have a cricket

And a broccoli. :)

Unicode is amazing

@egreg does this have a superior meaning or simply people don't know how to spend their time and come out with these ideas?

@DavidCarlisle Not to mention they're preparing for the UK split: unicode.org/emoji/charts/…

12:10 PM

@egreg I decided not to notice that

"Pensée unique" (French for "single thought") is a pejorative expression for mainstream ideological conformism of any kind, almost always opposed to that of the speaker. Originally, it is a French expression and referred to claims that neoliberalism is the only correct way to structure society. The phrase implies that mainstream discussion is limited by ideological assumptions of what is possible. One example of pensée unique given by critics was the motto of Margaret Thatcher (former Prime Minister of the United Kingdom): TINA ("There is no alternative"), which was picked up word-for-word ...

@egreg I don't get it. I get the meaning but not the reference

@Moriambar We must write with emojis

@egreg oh thanks. Sorry. A colleague of mine is of the same opinion. She almost never uses any written word

It's hieroglyphics time all over again!

@egreg: my advisor and I have a funny project: we will write an APL-like language to be written using emojis. I already have a lexer prototype. :)

1:05 PM

@PauloCereda I was looking at the arara github for this return value question

would you be interested in localization for Dutch?

@Marijn Oh as the manual isn't written yet, the only references are in the code itself and a vague rememberance of it inside my mind. :) I think it's an exit key in which you simply say exit: value == 0 or any boolean expression.

@Marijn ooh definitely!

@Marijn: I might need to revisit my code and see what the duck I was thinking of when I wrote that. :)

@PauloCereda do you need localization for Italian?

(I've never seen the code :P)

@Moriambar @egreg helped me with version 3.0. Version 4.0 has a lot more, so any help is welcome. You could review each other's contributions. :)

@PauloCereda ehr, I feel the pressure of @egreg's

@PauloCereda do you need help with localisation for Portuguese?

1:10 PM

(I've been on and off translating for SEGA since 2005 but I still feel the pressure of @egreg's)

@DavidCarlisle Sure! :)

@Moriambar The gaming company?

@PauloCereda yup, them. I am/have been one of the translators for their "Football Manager" game series

@Marijn: github.com/cereda/arara/blob/… Found it. :) It's a key inside a command spec. :)

@Moriambar Awesome!

@PauloCereda just make all error messages say this, you'll be fine Basta usar emacs lisp e auctex, não qualquer um desses absurdos java.

@DavidCarlisle This translation makes me very uncomfortable. :)

identifier: bibtex
name: BibTeX
authors:
- Marco Daniel
- Paulo Cereda
commands:
- name: The BibTeX reference management software
  command: >
    @{
        return getCommand('bibtex', options, getBasename(file))
    }
  exit: true
arguments:
- identifier: options
  flag: >
    @{
        if (isList(parameters.options)) {
            return parameters.options;
        }
        else {
            throwError('I was expecting a list of options.')
        }
    }

@Marijn ^^ this would be a bibtex rule without checking the exit code.

The exit key simply evaluates to true, regardless of the actual command execution status. :)

1:23 PM

@PauloCereda kinda

@Moriambar SEGA is a Japanese company?

@PauloCereda yes, I've been "contributing" to SEGA Europe. When my contribution was consistent I was also in the credits. I don't play that game anymore, thus I don't know whethet I'm still there (my effort is way less than before now-- too busy translating a book--, I wouldn't be surprised if I wasnt' in the credits recently)

@PauloCereda it's been for them that I went to London around 2005 or 2006.

@Moriambar I heard that gaming localisation is pretty complex. I read something about a translator asking for being removed from the credits because the company vetted his work because of localisation issues (something that was put into regional context).

@PauloCereda I'll start translating then :) can I just use messages.properties as a template, or is it more complex?

@PauloCereda it's quite difficult because you 1) would have to know pretty well the game and its mechanisms, 2) you have to know almost perfectly the game context (e.g. football in this case) and specific lexicon 3) you're almost always in a rush and some other specific things.

I also translated a book (as a present for a friend of mine) and it was a bit simpler that.

1:39 PM

@Marijn Oh thank you, I have no words to describe my gratitude for this effort! Take your time, please, there's no hurry! Copy messages.properties and rename it to messages_nl.properties. No worries about quoting, I have a helper program to help me fix them later. :)

2:25 PM

@PauloCereda @DavidCarlisle On my way back I pondered about the literature type of "duck in steamy room: light skin tone". broccoli could be included.

@UlrikeFischer ooh :)

@UlrikeFischer: you've been poken. :)

3:09 PM

@PauloCereda Neat. I hope you (both) enjoy the flight!

@UlrikeFischer Thank you. :) I still have some days to wait, my flight is on Monday. :)

3:22 PM

@UlrikeFischer excellent work tracking down that luaotfload issue:-)

3:43 PM

@DavidCarlisle Thanks ;-). I wished I could get check the context fontloader, but I don't know how to get comparable patterns. But in any case, it is up to luaotfload to handle the ccmp feature better.

3:58 PM

@UlrikeFischer would be interesting to know if it already fails in a straight context example (that is if luaotfload inherited the problem from context, but I would think you have narrowed it down enough now that they can find it)

@DavidCarlisle That was what I meant with the "context fontloader". Until some month I could load it in luaotfload and test. But the context fontloader has moved on and luaotfload lags behind. So it is quite possible that the issue is already resolved. I wished Philipp would find some time to move luaotfload a bit forward.

@UlrikeFischer yes but could you try using it in context directly rather than the context font loader via luaotfload (I don't know enough context to make an example:-)

4:15 PM

Visual Studio... for Mac. Wow.

@PauloCereda finally you might get a usable editor

@DavidCarlisle I already use vim. :)

47 secs ago, by David Carlisle

@PauloCereda finally you might get a usable editor

@DavidCarlisle you are mean

@DavidCarlisle you should've stressed the usable word

4:19 PM

Jan 8 at 10:11, by David Carlisle

@PauloCereda I think you may have mentioned that before.

@DavidCarlisle oh no

Jan 12 '16 at 12:15, by David Carlisle

@PauloCereda finished your thesis?

@DavidCarlisle oh no

@PauloCereda the problem is that you knew where that was going :P

@PauloCereda better than a conversation just made up of emoji we should have conversations just made up of quoted earlier comments

4:22 PM

@DavidCarlisle :)

@StefanKottwitz I am a bit unhappy about the authorea adds as well. On the other hand, we do advertise Overleaf in a sense. At least we are collarborating with them. Don't know what is right or wrong here.

ooh señor penguino is here. :)

Jan 12 '16 at 12:15, by David Carlisle

@PauloCereda finished your thesis?

7 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

Jan 12 '16 at 12:15, by David Carlisle

@PauloCereda finished your thesis?

6 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

7 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

Jan 12 '16 at 12:15, by David Carlisle

@PauloCereda finished your thesis?

6 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

6 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

7 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

Jan 12 '16 at 12:15, by David Carlisle

@PauloCereda finished your thesis?

7 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

6 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

6 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

7 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

Jan 12 '16 at 12:15, by David Carlisle

@PauloCereda finished your thesis?

7 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

7 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

6 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

6 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

7 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

Jan 12 '16 at 12:15, by David Carlisle

@PauloCereda finished your thesis?

7 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

7 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

7 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

6 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

6 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

7 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

Jan 12 '16 at 12:15, by David Carlisle

@PauloCereda finished your thesis?

7 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

7 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

7 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

7 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

6 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

6 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

7 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

Jan 12 '16 at 12:15, by David Carlisle

@PauloCereda finished your thesis?

7 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

7 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

7 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

7 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

7 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

6 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

6 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

7 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda

Jan 12 '16 at 12:15, by David Carlisle

@PauloCereda finished your thesis?

ooh

@DavidCarlisle ^^

@PauloCereda Paulina Rubio is on the radio :-)

@Johannes_B ooh Mexico

4:43 PM

@DavidCarlisle I tried but it doesn't fail - which could mean that the issue is resolved there or that I couldn't setup all failing conditions. The hyphenation patterns are a problem.

4:58 PM

@PauloCereda By any chance, is Sexual by Neiked ft. Dyo popular on brazilian radio?

@Johannes_B No. I only know her because of a Mexican friend. :(

1 hour later…

Stefan Kottwitz

5:59 PM

@Johannes_B Overleaf is a useful tool for the forum. And they link to the forum on their help pages. Authorea only uses our forum to post advertisements about their service. They don't even credit LaTeX well (if they use it), on their long homepage they just mention it briefly it as a supported markup language.

@StefanKottwitz Well then, kick the posts.

Stefan Kottwitz

@Johannes_B No hurry, I'm curious if there would be a response without writing or doing more ;-)

@StefanKottwitz Ok, waiting. Getting it on the review queue.

6:28 PM

@PauloCereda are you there?

@Moriambar Quack. :)

@PauloCereda if I can be of any use in translating to Italian count me in, but also tell me what to do! :) Second of all, the arara manual is really good, and contains one of the best quotes I've ever read :)

@Moriambar Thank you for the kind words, and it will be an honour to have you on the team. :) The new manual requires a complete rewrite, as the tool received several, huge improvements, so I need to cover them all. As my academic job has a higher priority at the moment, I am focusing on my thesis and putting the manual on hold, but as soon as things get more calm around here, I will poke you about the tool messages in Italian. Thank you again!

@PauloCereda great!

7:06 PM

why do some questions have a yellowish background?

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7:35 PM

@Moriambar You probably have chosen some favourite tags ([typography] in this case): this feature is meant to highlight such questions to make it easier for you to find them. Look for "Favorite Tags" in the right-side bar on the main page tex.stackexchange.com

ooh the velociraptor knows a lot of things! <3

Meanwhile, @DavidCarlisle is mean

7:53 PM

@CarLaTeX No :-) never did something like that in my life. I have the machine stuck and the pc leans on the gearbox. I can not write well. :( sorry for my delay answer.

@TeXnician ahahah.

user image

@TeXnician David told me I have a pc like those of Filipinos :) I hope I understand it well.

Jan 8 at 10:11, by David Carlisle

@PauloCereda I think you may have mentioned that before.

@Sebastiano er no:-)

@DavidCarlisle excuse me :(

@ShreevatsaR yep you got me. typography

@DavidCarlisle I ask you a favor. If you could use an English less English, in short an easy English. In school I learned the school education until the middle school. My ex-prof. He chatted and did very little.

@Moriambar hiiiiiiii :)

@Sebastiano hey, I see your battery is fine!

@Sebastiano I think that using an English more English (i.e., correct and really English) is best for learning purposes, since it can be reused :)

@ShreevatsaR thanks

8:06 PM

@Moriambar 68%, now

I very much ashamed of not knowing English

@Sebastiano "flippin" is essentially meaningless word, a sign of exasperation, often used as a substitute for less polite expletives when in public. eg dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/flipping

@Sebastiano drains quickly

@Sebastiano you should study it seriously then. There's no point in being ashamed of something like that: either you are ok with what you know, or else you do something. At least it's what I think about it.

@Sebastiano your english is a lot better than my Italian (Tranne quando utilizzo i servizi di google translate, che è garantito per essere sempre corretto.)

@egreg Hallo :))

@Sebastiano Ciao!

8:12 PM

@DavidCarlisle It is no true :)

@DavidCarlisle At this moment i haven't no use google traslate.

@Moriambar Very nice at this time I am very busy with the school, and I really have a dream to be realized.

I hope you realize my dream

@CarLaTeX I'm still quiet with my pc, rocking my car change :) I have to keep it in balance

@Jan hi

@Sebastiano I'm happy to know that, for road safety :):):)

@DavidCarlisle I did not know it absolutely

@DavidCarlisle Your Italian sounds more or less like "Except when I use google translate, which is granted for be always right"

@CarLaTeX I like speed but I'm very cautious. I do not even have the smartphone. I have a cell phone of 2002 maybe

@Moriambar I have absolute faith.

8:19 PM

faith=fede??

@DavidCarlisle As all vim users and pineapple-pizza eaters have :)

@Sebastiano I prefer to realize mine :)

@Sebastiano Good, be cautious! :)

@DavidCarlisle (serious English question) if I have more than one dream, is it still correct to say "I prefer to realize mine" intending "I prefer to realize my dreams", i.e. plural? I have the (probably wrong) feeling that saying "I prefer to realize mine" refers to a single dream

@Sebastiano ~~yup~~ yes

I am very tired and I would like someone to correct my students' tasks. And not only do I have the bricklayers in my house who are fixing the balconies. I do not say anything else, otherwise I become paranoid.

@Sebastiano I meant "faith in google translate" in the sense of as in "faith in the church" (although the first meaning that came up for "fede" was "wedding ring", I hope you were not offering that:-)

8:23 PM

@DavidCarlisle nope, he was not referring to the wedding ring, believe me. Your faith deceives you :) It's strange that google translate pops that meaning up first…

@DavidCarlisle I'm not offended by you David, I'm just trying to understand the English you've just written.

@Moriambar it's probably correct (I'm English so have no idea about English grammar) you'd have to ask @AlanMunn, but probably I'd say "realise my dreams" not "mine"

2

@DavidCarlisle at this moment my battery is 46%

@Moriambar well I only put in the one word, so it didn't have a lot of context to disambiguate

@DavidCarlisle Ok. Iwould've asked him, were he here, but I'm stuck with you, and that will have to do :P :P :P thanks anyway

8:25 PM

@DavidCarlisle fede is faith in Italian, the same as English, but also the wedding ring :):):)

@DavidCarlisle yes but fede is more commonly used as "faith" than "wedding ring". But google people are really romantic, I guess

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Is there anybody who corrects the verifications of my students? :) I offer a bounty .... to coconut ahahhahah

@Sebastiano 50€ per student up front and you have a deal

your proposal is expensive

@Sebastiano quality is expensive my friend :) except with LaTeX; also: you're paying me to do your job, you shouldn't expect to get easily off the hook

0

Q: Redefining ref with renewcommand

In a thesis package, I must change \ref with \textnormal{\ref{tab8} \vspace{-3mm}} for format restrictions. I try \renewcommand,but i does not work. Any help will be appreciated.

cross-referencing

this is fantastic ^^^

8:32 PM

@Moriambar with your new book in hand you could give a lua(tex) answer.

@DavidCarlisle :)

@DavidCarlisle well… I'm just at "numbers". Also: I don't think there's any tex here.

@Moriambar 5 €

@Moriambar You should never use minimal for examples: can you see what's the problem in your answer?

0

A: Problem with equation not centering

I would use the gathered environment provided by amsmath \documentclass{minimal} \usepackage{amsmath} \begin{document} \begin{equation} \begin{gathered} \textnormal{A}= \begin{pmatrix} \cos(\pi/4) & -\sin(\pi/4) & 0\\ \sin(\pi/4) & \cos(\pi/4) & 0\\ ...

And \textnormal is obviously wrong: it should be \mathrm

@PauloCereda I've seen all your ads only now, they're gorgeous 😆😆😆❤❤❤

8:37 PM

Guys greet you good continuation. I turn on the engine of my car and go home. I'm really tired. Hello

@egreg oh dear lord, yes.

good nightttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt‌ttttttttt

I pasted the wrong code and example

also the new example does not work; Answer deleted. Thanks, @egreg

@Sebastiano night

@Moriambar @egreg any guesses what the OPs done to get the spacing (now) shown in that \ref question?

@Sebastiano no way josé

8:39 PM

@Moriambar Please, undelete it. There are some other things to fix in the OP's code, which the other answer doesn't address.

@egreg I cannot get the number tag in the right position

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@Moriambar It should be three lines; as you can see, the other answer cheated by using geometry that increases the text width.

@egreg thanks, corrected, made it 3 lines long also.

@Moriambar In the third line it should be \mathrm{A}\mathrm{B}, not \mathrm{AB}; the result is the same, but it's conceptually wrong. Better yet, define \newcommand{\matr}[1]{\mathrm{#1}} and use \matr{A}\matr{B}.

@egreg yup; editing and detailing it ;)

8:49 PM

@Moriambar Votato sulla fiducia. ;-)

@DavidCarlisle No. Some silly redefinition of \tablename?

@egreg must be a \vspace in hmode somewhere randomly adding space at the next linebreak but how to people get into such a mess?

@DavidCarlisle It looks like a vspace in the wrong place.

@UlrikeFischer see the line above:-)

@DavidCarlisle I can't type so fast on the tablet ;-)

@UlrikeFischer excuses excuses says @egreg

8:53 PM

@DavidCarlisle “A thesis package”…

@egreg grazie, troppo buono. Just corrected

@DavidCarlisle oh lord

@egreg he said in the deleted duplicate that he's its maintainer...

@egreg I just tried to grab the zip file but connection failed...

@DavidCarlisle First jewel: \def\@tablelabel{Table }

Second jewel

\if@rmnchp \def\thechapter{\Roman{chapter}}
  \else \def\thechapter{\vspace*{10pt} \arabic{chapter}} \fi

got it now

@egreg you answer or should I:-)

@DavidCarlisle It doesn't cater for the vertical space, though.

@DavidCarlisle Final jewel

\let\@enddoc=\enddocument
\def\enddocument{\label{`@lastpage'}\@enddoc }

:)

9:00 PM

@egreg ahhh the thesis packages… the joy of @Johannes_B :)

@egreg ah the sample document: more vspace I like \newenvironment{prf}{\noindent{\bf Proof}}{$\hfill \Box$ \vspace{10pt}}

@egreg just found this too . It is also good hunting ground for spurious space catchers..

@DavidCarlisle I actually don't know if I'm glad not to be able to do such things or if I'm sad not to be able to do such things

9:16 PM

@Moriambar mine, yours, etc. contain an unpronounced N that behaves like a pronoun. But it's unspecified for number, so its antecedent can be either singular or plural. So in your example, as long as dreams is in the discourse already, you can use mine to refer back to it. E.g. I have two dogs and Bill has three. Mine are poodles.

@egreg oh yes it was that vspace,

ok but consider this:
A: “Fulfil my dream”
B: “First, I have to fulfil mine”

B has only one dream, many or is undecided?

@Moriambar one (but it may be an all encompassing big idea)

@Moriambar That's a more interesting question. I think the preferred interpretation would be singular, but I think plural is also possible. E.g. if it were the subject of the sentence and you had explicit agreement.

@AlanMunn @DavidCarlisle Ok as I thought. But I needed some native-speaker to be sure. So then in the context about me and @Sebastiano the right thing I should've said is "I prefer to realise my dreams"

9:23 PM

@Moriambar For example: I'll fulfill my dream before John and Mary fulfill theirs. This can easily be plural.

@Moriambar Yes, there was no supporting context for plural there, so it would be interpreted as singular.

@AlanMunn ok, but it was me and Sebastiano, so it was unclear. The problem is from my being Italian, since in Italian pronouns have plural forms, so there's no need to disambiguate.

@Moriambar Right.

@AlanMunn So the same structure would be easily referred to the full set of dreams I have

@Moriambar Yes, if there was a supporting context for it, absolutely.

A bit unlucky there is no way to compactly say this in English though

9:26 PM

@Moriambar Well one could argue this is more compact. :)

@AlanMunn No I meant in Italian you don't need any context

@AlanMunn I mean "I prefer to realise mine" vs "I prefer to realise my dreams"

@Moriambar I know, but ambiguity is efficient too. Why use extra symbols when context can decide. :)

vs Preferisco realizzare il mio vs Preferisco realizzare i miei

@Moriambar This is one of the interesting things that makes natural languages very different from computer languages. Ambiguity is generally a good thing in natural language, and one can argue a necessary thing, on economy grounds.

@AlanMunn I'm not saying in general. I'm talking about the specific sentence. I have no problem in general with anything like that

9:28 PM

@Moriambar I agree; not trying to say you're wrong. :)

@AlanMunn lawyers make a living on ambiguity, and politicians too

@Moriambar Also poets

Coming from a physics and mathematics background, I'm not a fond of ambiguity.

@Moriambar And then linguists like me get called by opposing lawyers to set them right. :) I once furnished an expert opinion on a court case which included a tree!

@egreg yup. I like poetry the same as I like politics

9:31 PM

@Moriambar That's a bit sad.

@AlanMunn Wow!

@AlanMunn why so? I find it not appealing. I prefer literature

@Moriambar I was also asked to write an opinion about some particular contract language which wasn't actually correct. So I declined that one.

@Moriambar Fair enough. (I do too, but I'm not sure I'd lump it in the same category as politics :D)

@AlanMunn as I said before the linguistics field is really fascinating and I've been circling it nearer and nearer in the last few years

@AlanMunn well, you see, I mostly function in a discrete fashion, so there are rarely things that are "meh" for me: either "fascinating, superawesome, etc." or "disgusting, horrible,etc."

The world for me is an enormous container of "MSWord"s and "LaTeX"s :)

@Moriambar Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, lol.

speaking of which, I'm going to read my horribly typeset book. Thanks @DavidCarlisle but mostly @AlanMunn for the chat! And being old fashioned… SO LONG

@JasonBourne it's not ambiguous in any way

gtg bye!

9:42 PM

@AlanMunn Strange that they ask you to go to court, what a waste of time!

@Moriambar and thanks for all the fish

ooh I do believe @egreg just lost a tick. Sad :(

@DavidCarlisle echo '564442-386991' | bc

177451

echo '177451/15' | bc
11830

@egreg well if we say half of yours are undeserved and factor that in...

@DavidCarlisle That's 0.008% :P

10:17 PM

@JasonBourne No, I didn't have to go to court. I wrote an opinion and that was submitted as part of the argument. I wasn't called to testify.

10:34 PM

@JasonBourne I suspect I would only have been called to testify if they had a "rent-a- ~~fraud~~ linguist" who was willing to offer a competing analysis of the syntax.

Hi everyone hope you all are doing great.

anyone uses macvim here?

@Frrank you just missed @PauloCereda, only emacs users left, sorry:-)

10:50 PM

Thanks @DavidCarlisle I'm facing a small issue in the shell just need an experience view if that's fine.

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