The Reading Room

2:04 PM

@Mithrandir Score doesn't necessarily correlate with quality. My suggestion (in a comment on Hamlet's answer) was to let "high quality" be at the discretion of the bounty offerer.

yannis

@Mithrandir Would that motivate you to do the extra research that would allow you to answer questions that you otherwise wouldn't/couldn't?

Mithrandir

@yannis Who knows...

Benjamin

@BESW I know that, I mean more specifically.

Shokhet

Dammit, @Randal'Thor, you answer too quickly! I saw the title and immediately opened the question to answer it, only to find that you had already done so.

Rand al'Thor

@Shokhet I'd never heard about the book before seeing that question, but my Google-fu was strong enough.

Aaaaand I've passed 6666 rep without touching it. Beastliness averted.

Shokhet

2:14 PM

@Randal'Thor I read the book but didn't immediately recall the title, so one of us would have had to Google it either way

@Randal'Thor Congrats!

Riker

@Mithrandir yeah, not my fault, it's SE's fault

animuson has replied as such when I pointed it out on meta

@Mithrandir :) thanks

Rand al'Thor

Everyone's becoming a mod these days.

2

There's hardly a non-blue name in the place.

Riker

yes

Mithrandir

@Riker I've been answering stuff on your meta...

Riker

oh really? cool

I've been asleep sooo

@Mithrandir btw, it doesn't appear to be the site.meta vs meta.site thing that's borking the images

I think it's just the https

also, @Mithrandir what's that about the puzzles you wrote being paused? why?

Mithrandir

2:24 PM

@Riker right, but it will be fixed then.

@Riker ?

Riker

?

Rand al'Thor

?

Riker

@Mithrandir no, changing to site.meta doesn't fix it

@Mithrandir you stopped making yoru puzzles, why?

Rand al'Thor

(not a real question, just joining in)

Riker

the clue <number>

Mithrandir

2:25 PM

@Riker not us. When SE does the switch, it will be fixed.

Riker

yeah

ok, got confusion

Mithrandir

@Riker got busy with Lit :P

Rand al'Thor

@Mithrandir Tell me about it.

Riker

... then what's this about losing keys?

Rand al'Thor

There's a sharp bend in my Puzzling rep graph on the day Lit started.

Riker

2:27 PM

lool

Mithrandir

@Riker *facepalm*

Riker

in The Sphinx's Lair, Sep 15 '16 at 20:31, by Mithrandir

Announcement: All puzzles are being delayed because my Puzzling notebook with all of my keys disappeared. :/

hahahahaha

RIP mith, did you check under the couch yet?

Mithrandir

48

Q: Mithrandir has lost his keys!

Announcement: All puzzles are being delayed because my Puzzling notebook with all of my keys disappeared. :/ -- Mithrandir Some hours after discovering this devastating loss, Mithrandir went to bed. Still moping over his missing notebook, he didn't notice the piece of paper on his pillow at ...

Riker

lol

Rand al'Thor

48

Q: Mithrandir has lost his keys!

Announcement: All puzzles are being delayed because my Puzzling notebook with all of my keys disappeared. :/ -- Mithrandir Some hours after discovering this devastating loss, Mithrandir went to bed. Still moping over his missing notebook, he didn't notice the piece of paper on his pillow at ...

story steganography

Riker

2:29 PM

nice puzzle @Randal'Thor

ninja'ed tho :p

Rand al'Thor

Darn ninjas.

Mithrandir

@Riker I found it a few hours after the puzzle went up.

Riker

hahaha

Rand al'Thor

@Mithrandir Was it on top of the fridge?

Mithrandir

in The Sphinx's Lair, Sep 17 '16 at 17:27, by Mithrandir

It was under the bed.

Riker

2:33 PM

in The Sphinx's Lair, Sep 17 '16 at 17:27, by Will

Over the mini fridge under the bed?

ah, makes sense now

Mithrandir

Riker

I upvoted them all fwiw

but nice ordering :p

Mithrandir

:P

>.< Someone is trying to reject my Ask Different suggested edits on switching images to stack.imgur...

Riker

RIP

Rand al'Thor

VAN

Mithrandir

2:42 PM

WINKLE

Rand al'Thor

You were supposed to say WINKLE.

4

Mithrandir

...Oh.

Riker

ya dun screwed

quick! to the edit-mobile Mith-man!

Benjamin

@Randal'Thor Hello

yannis

@Mithrandir I'd hope that's something SE would do automagically.

Mithrandir

2:44 PM

@yannis Nope. They're just doing http:// to https:// when possible.

Riker

there's a crowd-sourced project, mith probably has the link, for getting users to fix all images

Mithrandir

Nah

I mean

I have the link

But that's not what I'm using

Riker

ah

Mithrandir

data.stackexchange.com/graphicdesign/query/430352/…

Rand al'Thor

Now I want to delete my "You were supposed to say WINKLE" as obsolete, but since it's got four stars ...

Riker

2:47 PM

@Randal'Thor you have to edit your "VAN" and but make no changes so there are 3 edit pencils also

yannis

Clearly the solution is to give four stars to all chat messages, just in case someone edits them to WINKLE.

Rand al'Thor

@Riker Apparently that worked.

Riker

yes it does

@yannis good idea

not going to get stars cleared or anything

b_jonas

3:08 PM

@Randal'Thor This. In particular, I want to bounty a certain answer because it's high-quality but late so it didn't get much attention and thus very few upvotes.

(On Sci-Fi SE, and I haven't done it yet because I was waiting for a time when there were fewer featured questions, and I can't do it now because I'll be skiing when the bounty period ends.)

This one: scifi.stackexchange.com/a/148092/4918

Mithrandir

3:43 PM

I'm getting burnt out from too many edits :P

Mithrandir

3:57 PM

All right.

I'm taking a break.

When these last 5 go through, I'll have 201 on Ask Different.

o_O

user61230

4:59 PM

@Randal'Thor Baaaarely a Sanderson fan.

user61230

The more of his stuff I read, the less I like him. So I kinda stopped reading his stuff.

Himarm

shame

Bookworm

5:16 PM

0

Q: Why is 'beer' used in ''a parson much bemus'd in beer.''

In 1735 Alexander Pope wrote 'Epistle to Dr. Arbuthnot'. There is a line ''a parson much bemus'd in beer.'' What has beer to with it? I came across this in MW. In 1735, British poet Alexander Pope lamented, in rhyme, being besieged by "a parson much bemus'd in beer." The cleric in q...

symbolism poetry meaning

user61230

5:55 PM

!Case in point, I've been told the Stormlight Archive is great and worthwhile, but I just straight-up can't bring myself to read it.)

Riker

also, I found the mod vacation button exactly where HDE said it was :D

Mithrandir

@Riker ack

You're blue

Riker

yes

user61230

6:35 PM

And the blue density increases.

Riker

such blue much wowo

but seriously, for some reason literature has a lot of people who are mods on other sites

just an interesting note

Mithrandir

Literature is ~75% mods from SE...

Riker

yah

user61230

Wait, actually?

Mithrandir

I dunno, I took a random number :P

user61230

6:38 PM

Well, eight of the ten top users are.

user61230

No, sorry, six.

Mithrandir

Rand / Mith / Riker / HDE / Emrak / muru / Hamlet / Standback / Nathaniel / yannis / Helmar / Chenmuka on the first page.

Riker

yah

HDE 226868

@Riker Oh, congrats on being a mod!

Mithrandir

Gilles / Martin Ender / Ankit / Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 /Aurora0001 / ArtOfCode on the second page...

Riker

6:45 PM

@HDE226868 thanks!

and I did find the vacation button, just where you said it is :P

Bookworm

0

Q: To what extent is Aurora Leigh autobiographical?

I've been reading Elizabeth Barrett Browning's Aurora Leigh, and as I read through Aurora's early life and adolescence, I came to wonder if the poem was inspired at all by Barrett Browning's own childhood and later life. For instance, I'm aware from some brief background reading that the author w...

poetry aurora-leigh autobiography elizabeth-browning

HDE 226868

@Bookworm You're quick today.

@Riker Cool.

user61230

@Mithrandir Okay, wow, yeah, that's a lot.

Mithrandir

7:51 PM

Whee, https:// bugs.

Napoleon Wilson

8:42 PM

@Skooba They on the other hand allow other questions, though. I've seen analysis type questions get closed on SF&F, while M&TV (and I hope Literature) are probably not too keen on listing what things JKR is bad at.

Skooba

@NapoleonWilson but that helps me understand her stories better

Napoleon Wilson

@Randal'Thor Any specific thoughts you're after?

@FuzzyBoots Very considerate indeed.

Napoleon Wilson

8:57 PM

@Skooba Uhuh. ;-)

Skooba

@NapoleonWilson If i know she is bad at math, I don't read much into the numbers.

Napoleon Wilson

You might want to add that context and motivation to the infamous question (but it's not like you actually need to).

Skooba

@NapoleonWilson i know right.t why to drag up that gem. I am very proud it was "most controversial post" of whichever quarter it was posted in.

Bookworm

10:17 PM

0

Q: How did Wonka's Golden Ticket sweepstakes ensure that children would win?

In Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Wonka says I don't want a grown-up person at all. A grownup won't listen to me; he won't learn. He will try to do things his own way and not mine. So I had to have a child. I want a good sensible loving child [...] and Charlie responds, So that i...

roald-dahl charlie-chocolate-factory

kristan

I tried to make that question not-too-spoilery, and also answerable; I'm not 100% sure I succeeded :-P

@Mithrandir I haven't calculated the percentage, but I'm one (not that I do much), so it seems probable enough...

Rand al'Thor

@Emrakul I actually have a half-written review of Sanderson's Mistborn trilogy which has been on my to-do list for the SFF blog for ... seven months? The TL;DR of my opinion on Sanderson is that he's pretty good on overarching plot but has a pretty bad writing style on the small scale.

@Emrakul Including ALL of the top five.

@Mithrandir https://bugs is a funny name for a website :-P

@NapoleonWilson Yeah, fandom information is explicitly on-topic on SFF, but I'm pretty sure it'd get frowned on here.

BESW

Doctor Who audio dramas on the Humble Bundle. They're made by Big Finish, so you know they're good.

Rand al'Thor

10:34 PM

@NapoleonWilson Not really. Just general thoughts - any advice you might have, given your experience of a similar award system on M&TV.

Napoleon Wilson

Nothing that would come to mind right now.

Mithrandir

10:48 PM

Eeerg. The fast starts in less than 4 hours. I can't decide if I should go to sleep or stay awake until then...

Rand al'Thor

@Mithrandir So you're only slow for another few hours?

user61230

11:24 PM

@Randal'Thor It's an interesting idea, and I wouldn't disagree.

user61230

I do think Sanderson re-uses the same plot structure repeatedly, though.

user61230

But I'm trying to put a finger on why the books seem formulaic.

Rand al'Thor

@Emrakul Oh no, one of those authors? :-/

(Mistborn is the only series of his I've read, so I wouldn't know.)

user61230

I read Elantris and Warbreaker, and while I enjoyed some of the ideas in them, they were coarsely familiar out of the gate.

user61230

I've been told the Stormlight Archive is different, but I haven't read it yet.

Shokhet

11:26 PM

@Emrakul I'm not well-read enough in Sanderson to say, but it could be just too much Hero's journey

I do enjoy the worldbuilding and magic systems, though. Those work very well

user61230

My hypothesis is that it has to do with Sanderson's pace of writing. He writes a whole lot very quickly, then edits very little. That lends itself to tropes like, yeah, hero's journey.

Hamlet

@BESW literature.stackexchange.com/questions/1992/…

here we go

BESW

@Randal'Thor Like McCaffrey?

Shokhet

Anyone read White Sands #1 (from Arcanum Unbounded)? ...that one was a little different in that the hero isn't hugely more powerful than others (eg God King, Vin, Kaladin), but has much better control of powers

Rand al'Thor

@Emrakul Yeah. In a way it's great to have an author who churns out books so fast, but naturally something is lost by that too.

Hamlet

11:28 PM

> on the whole involving substantially less utter nonsense than the concept of "the deeper meaning of literature" does

:(

user61230

@Randal'Thor I'm still waiting patiently for The Doors of Stone.

user61230

(And I don't mind waiting. I hope it's worth it.)

Rand al'Thor

@BESW I haven't read enough of her stuff to judge either (just the first Pern book). I was more thinking of Trudi Canavan.

And, yes, David Eddings, though I still like him as an author despite his tendency to write the same story over and over again.

BESW

@Hamlet "The deeper meaning of literature" is a tad pretentious of a phrase, and hints at... [rummages for quote]

user61230

Hmm, Eddings.

Rand al'Thor

11:30 PM

I deliberately haven't read the Elenium and the Tamuli because I don't want Eddings to be spoiled for me in the same way Canavan was.

At least in the Belgariad and the Malloreon, he has a plausible in-universe excuse for telling the same story over and over again.

Gotta admire his chutzpah, in a way.

"Yeah, I'm too lazy to write more than one story. But look, I've created a world where that makes sense!"

Hamlet

Questions I wish this site would ban: (1) questions about author's intentions, (2) questions about logical inconsistencies, and (3) story-identification questions.

Rand al'Thor

(That probably sounds more critical than I actually am of Eddings. Like I said, I do like his stuff.)

user61230

I wasn't fond of the Belgariad, personally. I tore it to shreds as I read it.

Rand al'Thor

@Hamlet I'll heartily disagree on all three of those.

What's wrong with (1), in your view? Of course author's intentions shouldn't be taken as gospel truth for every question, but surely it should be acceptable to seek answers using that particular lens, on the understanding that it's only one of many?

BESW

> High literary texts were offered, in part, as a spiritual substitute for the explicitly Christian texts that British and American critics and their patrons and students were increasingly rejecting. These high literary texts were claimed to offer an understanding of "what it means to be human."

Hamlet

11:35 PM

@Randal'Thor but author's intentions, as used on this site, isn't actually a valid way to understand literature.

Rand al'Thor

@Hamlet How do you mean?

BESW

Mmm. As this site is treating it, author-intention questions aren't producing especially high quality answers because they involve no thought, evaluation, or explanation on the part of the answerer.

It's just "find a thing, copy-paste it, collect rep."

Rand al'Thor

If I've done a close reading of some book and come to some conclusion about it from that, say, then I might still want to know what the author's said about their intention in writing it, and whether that supports the same conclusion.

2

Hamlet

(1) intentions != meaning. So quotes from authors, on their own, don't say anything about meaning. You need to then explain how their intentions are communicated in the text, which involves analyzing the text

BESW

The research skills to find the author's statements aren't to be entirely disregarded, but even story-id requires basic comparison skills between what you get from your Google search and what the querent is describing.

Hamlet

11:38 PM

@Randal'Thor yes, but no one does the "close reading" part of the equation. They just find a quote from the author and then they're done for the day.

Rand al'Thor

@Hamlet So encourage them to do the close reading part, rather than calling for banning the authorial intent part.

BESW

Maybe that stands up in SF&F where Word of God is sometimes accepted as "more correct" than what's actually shown in the story, but it's not sufficient here.

Bookworm

0

Q: Why is Snape so fond of Malfoy?

In the end of Harry Potter, we learn that This however, does not account for why he shows favoritism to Draco before the Dark Lord resurrects (after which it is relatively obvious why). Why is Snape so fond of Malfoy?

character-analysis j-k-rowling harry-potter

user61230

This seems like an issue with answers rather than an issue with questions.

BESW

Agreed. I think banning intent questions should only be considered after we've put a bit more effort into improving the site's culture around their answers.

user61230

11:40 PM

@Bookworm Speaking of these questions....

Hamlet

@Emrakul not really. If I ask a question "what did author say about [x passage]", any answer that quotes from the author will have answered the question

Rand al'Thor

If some people think one particular lens trumps all others, then encouraging the use of other lenses as well is a better approach than banning that lens altogether, IMO.

BESW

But there's definitely a problem and ultimately we may be looking at a sand/pearl issue.

Hamlet

@Randal'Thor but just quoting from an author isn't a lens

user61230

I think the problem is that the question assumes the lens is absolute.

Rand al'Thor

11:42 PM

^

user61230

I'm not 100% sure, though.

Hamlet

No one in academia uses author's intentions the way it's used on this site

user61230

That's definitely true.

Hamlet

Lens are supposed to tell you the meaning(s) of a text. Intentions != meaning.

sigh how on earth does this comment get upvoted on a site about literature

@Hamlet they can be, and are elsewhere, handled very well, based on available information and not pure speculation, producing high-quality answers, and on the whole involving substantially less utter nonsense than the concept of "the deeper meaning of literature" does. — hobbs 17 mins ago

Anyway, I'm done for the day. Night

BESW

@Randal'Thor See, that'd be a pretty good question. But asking for the author's statements without the analytical context so you can do the work yourself later is not.

kristan

11:55 PM

@Hamlet Because it's true.

BESW

At best it's saying "Do my gruntwork for me but I don't trust the site to actually think like experts."

user61230

Do you have a reason to believe this is unusual, unexpected, or externally motivated? What surprises you, or led you to wonder if there was something deeper here beyond the obvious that you were missing? — Emrakul ♦ 52 secs ago

user61230

Trying to identify one of the problems with questions like these.

kristan

For the record, I'm not a literary critic, literary analyst, or any high-falutin' thing like that. I'm just an ordinary person who reads books, and sometimes has questions about them. As far as I knew this site was supposed to be accommodating to regular people, not just people with PhDs in some amazing literary field. If I'm wrong, and my contributions are not welcome, then I can go elsewhere.

2

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