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12:57 AM
Reddit links people to a page they can't vote on.
 
 
3 hours later…
4:15 AM
@Lilienthal she sometimes answers questions pretty late with amazing answers
 
4:48 AM
0
Q: Layout bug with election

ErikI noticed a layout bug on the election screen. My choices overlap the edge of the text and blue background with the profile information. As you can see the "a" is clipped by my second choice and my third choice slightly overlaps the blue background with the profile information. I'm using Fire...

 
 
1 hour later…
6:08 AM
@Lilienthal definitely
It seems that HNQ voters latch on to the current top answer and then boost it sky-high. I saw this happen to an answer of my own once which honestly wasn't that great. Somehow the better but later answers underneath it got completly buried though.
 
 
4 hours later…
10:32 AM
[Protect HNQ questions from drive-by voting](http://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/219922/what-is-the-goal-of-hot-network-questions#comment935388_220099). That should do, but people don't listen. :)
*cough* Some people *cough* think that HNQ is perfect, and if it is causing problems, it must be your fault.
 
 
3 hours later…
1:16 PM
@Lilienthal I agree. If you want to get a high rated answer, make it about "sticking it to the man". If you want a low, or even negative score, speak to personal responsibility, sacrifice, putting up with bad conditions until you can get out, or putting in a few extra hours without pay.
 
 
1 hour later…
Kaz
2:34 PM
I've got 11 answers that didn't go HNQ (or missed the wave), with an average score < 10. And then 3 HNQ top-answers that scored, respectively, 68, 93 and 164. The incentives (if you care about rep) are very skewed.
 
3:16 PM
@Kaz One of my highest rated answers is a verbal dressing down of a manager who wanted to tighten the screws on a P.Eng who was passed over for a promotion which was instead given to someone incompetent. I went against "the man" and the crowd loved it. I wasn't trying for a high rated answer, the OP just sounded outrageous to me.
 
Kaz
3:43 PM
@RichardU I remember that one. The community response was pretty awesome
@RichardU I like this one:
VTC. We cannot give advice for someone who has been actively breaking the law. — Richard U 30 mins ago
 
I think it's pretty close to impossible to get a >20 score without HNQ.
@Kaz I got to that one too late to help close but I did cast a delete vote on it. It's unsalvageable.
 
4:03 PM
You'd think he could come up with a better excuse than "lost in a fire".
 
@ChristopherEstep I think his dog ate it.
 
I can literally replace my I-9 documents by tomorrow if I needed to. Landlord for my lease, Power company for a bill, overnight birth certificate from MI. Then I go to my SS office and get a temporary SS verification. Head to DMV to replace license. BOOM
Admittedly, it helps that I live in a metro area where there is a SS office nearby. If I were in Michigan, I'd have to drive about an hour but I could still do it.
@RichardU LOL
 
I'm seriously considering creating a parody page with variations on bad questions with the answers we'd LIKE to give.
2
 
I bet whoever says they'll undo a certain person's (i'm not going to name) arbitrary closures wherever they happen would win the election in a landslide.
 
@ChristopherEstep I know EXACTLY who you mean.
@Kaz that P.Eng question was another case of someone seeking validation and got something else entirely. Especially the part where the OP said "how do I get him to smarten up". Oh, he seemed PLENTY smart to me. Moral of the story, never screw a key employee
 
Kaz
4:13 PM
@RichardU Pretty much. I got some visceral satisfaction just reading about it.
 
@Kaz I don't usually experience Schadenfreude, but in that case, I made a wicked exception. I had a good laugh over that one.
The OP KNEW her company screwed the guy over, and instead of looking for the most expedient resolution, she wanted to punish him for reacting. Talk about doubling down on foolishness!
 
(and I'm kidding on doing that, for the humor impaired. When he truly reads the question he does a good job actually)
What's the P.Eng question?
 
Kaz
112
Q: How can I deal with troublesome Professional Engineer?

user47645I currently manage a team of quite a few engineers in Canada. Things normally run smoothly, but we've had a serious problem with a senior engineer as of late. This engineer is the sole engineer on our team with his Professional Engineer (P.Eng.) designation, and we depend on him to evaluate secu...

Also worth reading the original question before the edits.
Lots of good context in there.
Long story short: Company has precisely one Professional Engineer. P. Eng. is like Heart Surgeon. Years & years of experience & training required to get it. By Law, they have to have a P. Eng sign off on their stuff. And trying to coerce, blackmail, or otherwise bribe one to sign off on things is all kinds of illegal.
Also means getting a new one in would need months (if not a year) of lead time in order to get up to speed on their org. and their products.
Then, they take this guy, and promote a nephew of one of the directors over his head to be the company's Principal Engineer.
So he made it perfectly clear just how much they need him. And just how badly screwed they are.
And the OP came to ask us how to get the Engineer to "behave"
 
4:44 PM
@Kaz that was a textbook example of how not to handle something. My ultimate advice, appease him or fire him would have remained the same even if I didn't think the OP was acting in bad faith. It's about what's best for the company, not ego. I wonder what ever happened in that case.
 
I would love to know how that turned out.
@RichardU Your advice was solid and actually very lawyerly. Once you pointed out the mistakes that were made and why, you gave the only practical advice one could give.
I don't' think she was acting in bad faith at first. I think ultimately her ego took over. "I'm not going to reward treachery" was BS. She sounds like she watches too much TV.
 
Kaz
Pretty much. When somebody has you over a barrel like that, you ask them what it will cost to get them to resign amicably and you pay them.
 
@ChristopherEstep There's an old poem I rely on.

Here Lies the body of William Jay
Who died maintaining his right of way
He was right
Dead right
As he sped along
But he's just as dead
As if he were wrong.
 
Kaz
Context:
@peter The OP did say that the nephew was incompetent and has since been relieved of his position. That was in the comments that have since been deleted, but she did say it. — Richard U Aug 19 '16 at 13:31
There's more like that but, sadly, deleted.
If you read the question now, it seems far less unreasonable than the original version.
 
5:01 PM
Uh oh ... HNQ coming up ...
5
Q: How to deal with an extremely unprofessional in-house recruiter?

detcader(Not posting on my normal account for obvious reasons, but I've been around since pretty much the very beginning.) I'm interviewing at a certain programming job. I've passed everything, the people doing the interview say they really like my skills and want me to join the team, everything's look...

 
Kaz
5:14 PM
Oh, I forgot on the HNQ discussion earlier. My one question (HNQ) got 135 votes, and the one other question I posted under a separate account also went HNQ and got over 100.
9
Q: How to deal with an extremely unprofessional in-house recruiter?

detcader(Not posting on my normal account for obvious reasons, but I've been around since pretty much the very beginning.) I'm interviewing at a certain programming job. I've passed everything, the people doing the interview say they really like my skills and want me to join the team, everything's look...

Calling a recruiter unprofessional for trying to persuade you to take a lower salary seems, wrong?
 
5:31 PM
@Kaz Looks like a big part of it was redacted from the history.
 
@Kaz From the description, OP seems to be from USA, where It is not a common practice to disclose your current salary when you negotiate with a company (as I hear from this site). So yeah, pestering the OP with various indirect questions to find out his salary after he flatly refused to tell does sound a bit "strange" (to put it mildly). Just say what you are offering and be done with, don't keep bothering the candidate with "what ifs".
 
I don't necessarily agree on this:
4 hours ago, by Richard U
@Lilienthal I agree. If you want to get a high rated answer, make it about "sticking it to the man". If you want a low, or even negative score, speak to personal responsibility, sacrifice, putting up with bad conditions until you can get out, or putting in a few extra hours without pay.
It really depends on the circumstances. I think a lot of circumstances, as given by the Questioner, tend to be unfavorable toward the employer, however.
Small businesses can really push it in their treatment of employees, from what I can see.
Sometimes they get their fair entrepreneurial profit, sometimes they're trying to squeeze profit out of everyone they can. And some employees try to do the same.
If you find an employee asking about that - I think you can get high rated answers telling them to be responsible and put up with at least temporarily unsatisfactory work conditions - so long as you show them the light at the end of the tunnel.
I've done that a couple of times - at least I think I have.
Hourly work is highly transactional - you show up and clock in on time, work your hours, then clock out and leave. Answers telling those kinds of workers to do unpaid work or to sacrifice for the employer are highly likely to fail.
Salaried and knowledge work is much more relationship oriented.
If the relationship is strong, you can ask for or recommend some amount of sacrifice or long hours.
For some fields, like law, that may even be a prerequisite for success.
@JasonC welcome to The Water Cooler
 
6:02 PM
I'm grumpy and I don't know why I clicked your link to here.
whines
 
:D
You were complaining about your PM.
 
Oh man I should do some Workplace question browsing. I love that site. Most of the time my reaction is "how do these people exist", followed by "and how did this other person manage to rock out such a killer answer to that", then ultimately "this makes me love freelance again".
 
The different kinds of businesses all have their trade-offs.
 
Heh. I have dealt with so many bad PMs, all different but equally tragic.
One of the projects I'm working on now the guy just seems to be in denial that the future exists. He never has a handle on the schedule. "Do you guys have any prototype demos tomorrow so that my server updates don't interfere?" "Nope, totally all clear.". Tomorrow: "Hey I'm doing a critical client demo that we've been planning for weeks and the server is down, what's going on?"
Guess who's unintentionally managing all scheduling for all aspects of the project now.
 
I hope you get those responses in email. :)
 
6:11 PM
"Hey I've got this software ready, can we meet to go over it this week?" "Sure I'll ping you this week". Half week goes by. "Me: Hey, when's a good time to meet?" "Next week, let's do Tuesday." Tuesday rolls around: "Me: I'm heading to you now." "Let's do it tomorrow instead." Tomorrow rolls around: "Me: So here's this software" "I needed this last week."
scream
 
I hope it's not that informal.
Do you put it on their calendars?
 
This guy actually is. I mean I paraphrased but that's basically how that goes. He immediately went into "hey best bud!" mode the first day I met him.
I put it on the calendars I make for them, because when I suggested a few good scheduling tools, the response was "We tried that before but nobody checks them."
Bear in mind I was only brought on to this project initially to improve performance in some very specific code on a very specific piece of hardware.
And the tragedy is that this project is like, par for the course.
 
Are you fishing for something better, then?
 
Oh it's a whole thing. The Taverners are well aware of my job angst, heh. Long story short: I'm over freelance. I want a proper job with structure for a while. And I dropped all my clients and decided to just chill for a few months on savings while I got the rest of my ducks in a row.
And just when things were looking up, my cat got cancer, the vet bills destroyed me, and now it's back to freelance, at least temporarily, out of necessity.
I have one month to pay off the remaining $12k before I start getting hit with interest. So, I once again find myself in the same old boat.
Also, it just so happened that right at the same time one of my larger old clients (not the one I was just whining about) called me in a bit of a desperate situation, so it made falling back into the game that much more of an easy fallback.
 
@Kaz just cast the last close vote before that one could make it to HNQ
 
6:24 PM
Also bad timing was the whole MSO political debacle last week, where SE was, until that point, a viable and satisfying goal. Plus their HQ is a 20 minute commute from my apartment. But it doesn't seem like a good option to me any more, and as long as I'm in NYC I feel like I'm doomed to work for artists and startups. I dunno.
Anyways it's time to eat then work. Later.
 
@AaronHall I've literally been from the mop to the top. Putting in extra effort always makes you stand out. I will say that that is not always a good thing. the old "You're making us look bad" situation can always come into play.
 
6:51 PM
I say never worry about making the rest of them look bad (unless one of "them" is your boss).
 
@AaronHall I had a coworker who would go ape if anyone said that to him... "NO! You make yourself look bad" followed by some rather colorful language.
 
I say never worry about making the rest of them look bad, including your boss. If you look bad, it's not my job to make you less bad. If you don't like it, I'll happily take my experience elsewhere.
To be clear, I'm not a supporter trying to make people look bad. That's just... bad. But if they feel that way because of a natural conversation, I mean, come on. That doesn't actually involve me.
 
My job is to do my job the best I can and honestly. What my job isn't, is to cover anyone's ass.
2
 
Yeah, that ^
Can I star that? What kinds of things do you people star here?
It's always funny in the tavern with a star wall full of cat gifs, when somebody new comes in and stars an actual helpful message. It's super out of place. The nerve.
 
Never worry about making them look bad.
 
7:01 PM
Cat gifs never look bad.
Also, I totally violated my starring anonymity. I feel so... vulnerable.
 
@JasonC I reverse engineered some code and got a process to run in less than 1% of the time of the previous process. I literally made it run in under six minutes when it was running in 12 hours. If I hadn't had the cover of 3 EVPs, I would have been gone.
@AaronHall I don't worry about making them look bad, but I am wary of retaliation.
 
Heh
 
The best job security is being good at what you do, and having everyone else know it.
 
0
Q: Both VTC and Answer

PaparazziIn a recent question someone both VTC (vote to close) based on require a goal we can address and answered. That seems inconsistent to me. Is it proper to both VTC and answer.

 
Yeah but the most depressing job is not doing anything remotely difficult, and having everybody else think you're doing great.
 
7:06 PM
Don't find fulfillment in your job, use your job to pay the bills, and get fulfillment out of your off-work hours.
 
"Congratulations, you're a good little monkey."
Eh
I couldn't live like that. I'd rather be homeless. I could hack it, I think. I can hunt and start fires.
 
recites the liturgy
@JasonC you'd rather be homeless than make good money?
 
Then again, I may be able to manage an unfulfilling job if it had some structure. That's a really foreign view to me because I work from home. There's no separation, week nights and weekends are meaningless.
You probably couldn't pay me enough to do a job I didn't like, so yeah.
I'm not a stranger to turning down big offers.
And I'd do the same thing again if I had a time machine.
 
Well, you're probably spoiled then. I was very underemployed for about a year after getting my MBA. I was glad to be making any money at all.
 
I could very well be spoiled. I don't know.
 
7:11 PM
@AaronHall After my stroke, I was happy to mop floors for money.
 
But when my brain rots at work I get deeply depressed. And I would trade my shelter to not feel that way.
 
@JasonC can you find other things to do at work?
 
I think it's hard for that to happen no matter your job description or employer in tech.
 
I'm freelance, I just kind of go with the flow. There isn't much room to make things up.
So I do the best I can, and it gets me repeat clients and word of mouth. That's all I can do.
 
so why are you turning down great offers?
 
7:13 PM
Because I'm fed up with the unsatisfying work. I wasn't that way 12 years ago.
But that doesn't mean I'm going to slack on the jobs I take. That's just crappy.
 
what's unsatisfying?
 
@AaronHall what's satisfying? I get all my satisfaction from my paycheck
 
My background is in medical robotics and cas. I love r&d. I love cutting edge research, and taking a concept from start to testing to finish. It's challenging, it makes a difference.
My freelance work in NYC is mostly for high-end tech artists. I essentially write screensavers for a living. I also do a lot of embedded stuff. It's the same crap, over and over. I could do it in my sleep.
I'm literally dumber now than I was 12 years ago. I'm forgetting basic analysis skills. My deductive reasoning is dulling. I groan when I start typing. I can't do it any more.
 
Can you do what you love in the evenings? If you're making good money somewhere, you can do what you love when you're not at work, and you don't even have to worry about making it economically sustainable.
 
And now it's gone so far that I'm not even sure if I like programming any more or not. I'd rather get into management. Or be a forest ranger or something. I don't know.
I don't have evenings. Not with freelance. It's hard to explain. Everything blends together. It takes all the effort in the world just to discipline myself enough to keep my work and play spaces distinct in my apartment.
 
7:17 PM
Yeah, so stop doing freelance work you hate.
 
I wake up whenever, I feed the cats, I get the job done, I feed the cats again, sometimes I watch Netflix, I go to sleep whenever, repeat.
Well that's the kicker
NYC is arts, finance, web/graphic design.
 
Get a 9-5 that pays well, and you have clear separation between work and fulfillment.
 
I'd have to move.
Yes.
That's my goal.
But, now I have to cram for cash from the vet bills. It was a $20k hit in the middle of intentionally relaxing on savings. I'm not so worried about the credit debt but I also borrowed some money from a family member, and so I have to pay them back.
So, freelance it is. It's the quickest path.
(And while I say on the surface that I'd rather be homeless, truth is I do take pride in maintaining a decent credit score.)
 
Kaz
@Magisch You're over in my tag ^^ codereview.stackexchange.com/q/154702/81541
Hi :p
@JasonC You should come to the 2nd Monitor
We were the first room to notice when the star-cap was temporarily lifted.
 
7:37 PM
Lol
 
@Kaz Well, I wanted to get a second opinion on my code
 
-2
Q: Social work jobs

J MurphyCurrently in my last semester for my MSW and the only work experience I have in the social work field is two unpaid internships. I'm having trouble finding employment. Any advice?

This could well be a troll because this does nothing but elicit unflattering thoughts.
 
7:56 PM
@AaronHall I'm not sure I follow. What sort of "unflattering thoughts"? It's not a good question, but I don't get a troll vibe at all.
 
Maybe just my perception, but I guess that's why those questions are off-topic - to eliminate whatever trolling aspect that comes with those topics.
I suppose I shouldn't make assumptions about their intentions.
 
8:33 PM
@AaronHall I'd chalk this one up to just a bad post. Not even at the level of our old friend "poonjay"
 
 
2 hours later…
10:25 PM
Ah, good old poonjay. That troll (and his pal) was entertaining.
 
11:18 PM
Eh. "Troll" is really becoming overused in the same way as "SJW" etc. It's too convenient IMO.
 

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