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2:15 PM
hello
@Kenshin unfortunately!? thankfully! Jar Jar was so annoying.
 
Hi, everybody.
 
@DanielSank, hello
I might be able to actually make the chat session today =D
 
Nice. I can never tell when they start.
 
neither can I, the email just says its in 3 hrs
and then some time zone madness.
 
@DanielSank, although I plan to try that out myself, but is the electron in a noisy bath conceptual question a meaningful one. I a not sure if I understood measurement correctly for that?
 
2:30 PM
@Secret I do not understand what you're asking.
 
electron in a noisy bath?
 
What "electron in a noisy bath conceptual question"? Link?
I can't read your mind.
 
@Secret Is this the electron in a noisy bath you're referencing?
 
@heather Yes
I am going to elbaorate now:
 
48 mins ago, by Secret
2. Electron in a noisy bath. Consider confining an electron prepared in the spin up state. Start subjecting the electron with a magnetic field that is changing in some random fashion for all points in space. Will this constant, random measurement by the magnetic field causes the electron's wavefunction to be projecting to e.g. spin state A, followed by spin state B, followed by spin state C etc., thus overall, the measured spin
state along any direction will have the expectation value of zero?
 
2:32 PM
Ah. Well first of all, are you interested in the case where the magnetic field is quantized, or do you want to think about a semiclassical picture where the magnetic field is classical but the spin is quantum?
 
If I understood correctly, if two quantum objects interact, then a measurement can happen. Therefore consider an electron in a box, subjected to a magnetic field which vary in space and time in some really erractic manner.

We can start with semicalssical fields first
 
(I'm pretty sure that if the magnetic field is in a coherent state then the semiclassical picture is actually correct even in the case where the field is quantized. Not 100% sure though)
If the field is semiclassical then the field does not really "measure" the electron.
In that case, you have a random walk problem, although a bit complex because you're doing a random walk on the surface of a sphere (because the states of an electron spin are points on the surface of the Bloch sphere).
You can find research papers about that problem.
 
I see
Hmm it seems my intuition is not off, I do kinda predict the spin vector will jittering around like crazy, I thought I think about the problem too classically
but it seems I am on the right track in treating as if the spin vector being knocked around by the magnetic field
 
@Secret That is certainly the right intuition as long as the field isn't "too quantum".
If the field is in a Fock state or something weird like that, then the situation isn't so easy to guess.
 
yup
 
2:43 PM
But yes, the spin simply wanders around randomly. Look up the papers on random walk on the surface of a sphere for details.
It's not as simple to write solutions as in the case of random walk on a flat surface.
 
0
Q: Physics books that speak to you like a human

kesraPeople who are studying alone, like me, can get a wrong impression of a subject by the books they are reading. I was studying Physics from a very dull book until recently when I browsed another book and thought "this is actually talking to me like a human and that makes the subject so much more i...

Too broad?
 
Superman hat, eh?
 
@DanielSank : Yeah. (It is less impressive if you know what it is awarded for.)
 
Any idea how you got it?
 
@DanielSank "Any zero-scored, accepted answer that remains zero-scored for at least 12h after accepting."
 
2:45 PM
@Qmechanic wayyyyyyyyyyyy too broad.
 
^dat
i vtc'd as primarily opinion based, but too broad is also a good one.
 
2:58 PM
we seem to be having a bit of a rise in resource-recommendation questions
 
BTW: what does this mean?
 
@heather starting new academic semester.
@AccidentalFourierTransform something involving reviews, I think.
 
@DanielSank yes, thats what I thought
but when I click it the queues are empty for me
 
hmm, i thought that orange thing was for edits
suggested edits, i mean.
 
it used to be for me, but yesterday I got to 10k rep and it changed
 
3:05 PM
oh.
try scrolling your mouse over it
and see what it says.
-2
Q: Moment of inertia and centre of gravity

cosmosproberCan someone solve question number 2?

^homework, obviously
but, what are the first three words of the question? "A something something cylindrical..."
 
@AccidentalFourierTransform oh yeah...I remember it changing for me too.
 
the hover box over the 15 says "15 total posts awaiting review"
but the review queues are empty
maybe it counts the skipped reviews as well?
 
hmm...maybe like in the special data or something you guys get at 10K?
 
@heather I just noticed that your avatar is Yoda with flame shooting out his ear.
 
Yoda with a rocket in the background
poor placement decision
=P
 
3:12 PM
Looks like some kind of galactic scale ear infection.
 
Morning
 
@BernardoMeurer, hallo
 
@DanielSank Did you see the hydraulic press reking fireworks?
 
no
link?
 
3:17 PM
PSA: If you go to an online chat and want to know if someone saw something neat, include a link. Don't wait for people to ask for it.
 
@DanielSank scrw u
It's not the best, but the slowmos look cool
 
@DanielSank I'm afraid you have convinced me that it has a nice aesthetic and story, but not that it's actually a good game.
 
@ACuriousMind why do we actually need the hilbert space
Why can't we use the dense subset directly
 
@ACuriousMind Ah indeed. I will have to direct you to the follow-up articles once they exist. That, or you could play the game :D
@BernardoMeurer <3
I love that those videos have a live laugh track provided by that one woman (presumably his SO).
 
@Slereah Because we want completeness, otherwise not all "convergent" series in the basis vectors we might write down actually exist.
 
3:22 PM
But do we need completeness
 
@DanielSank She's his wife, yeah
 
Are there any physical states that are the result of a convergent series not in that subset
 
"So, that got crush-ed and explode-ed at the same time..."
lol
 
@AccidentalFourierTransform For reasons not entirely clear to me, 10k users see the number of total flags ending review. If you already did your part of reviewing them (but the reviews are not completed), then the queue will look empty for you but the number won't be 0.
 
Or is it just convenient
 
3:23 PM
@Slereah I'm pretty sure you can't guarantee that the time evolution operator maps the dense subset to itself.
 
Seems odd
The states in not in the sets don't have momentum eigenvalues, no?
 
@Slereah I don't know what that means
 
@ACuriousMind well I don't like that :-(
 
Well you said that one example was that the momentum operator was defined on C1 functions, while the Hilbert space was L2
Not necessrily differentiable
 
@AccidentalFourierTransform Yes, the red number annoyed me terribly at the beginning, too! You'll get used to it
 
3:27 PM
there, I deleted an old answer of mine and Im back to <10k
wait no, I still have the same rep
why?
 
Maybe it takes a while.
 
downvoting spree it is then
 
@Slereah Ah, yes - the momentum operator itself can only act on the dense subset. However, its unitary exponential a la Stone's thoerem is defined on the entire Hilbert space, and you cannot say whether or not that exponential maps the dense subset to itself, in general, time evolution being the prime example
@AccidentalFourierTransform The answer is usually "caching".
 
damn SE u slow
 
@BernardoMeurer It's not clear to me why 1) the press sets off the fireworks (although in some cases it looks like they burned the fuse and the press was there just for show), and 2) why they didn't film this at night.
 
3:32 PM
and 3) why is his accent getting worse with each video
 
1) I think the press is just there for show 2) They're not as smart as you
3) Because that's the only reason we watch
 
@AccidentalFourierTransform Also: "Reputation changes from bounties, votes (both up and down), and acceptances on deleted posts (including answers to a deleted question) are nullified. (Exception: Reputation earned for posts with a score of three or higher, and where the post has been visible on the site for at least 60 days, is retained)."
 
@BernardoMeurer + alcohol.
 
@ACuriousMind so I can delete all my shitty answers and I still keep the rep?
"ve must deel vit it"
 
@DanielSank Indeed
 
3:36 PM
@AccidentalFourierTransform If they are older than two months and have 3 or more score, apparently yes.
 
@ACuriousMind that doesn't make much sense, does it?
 
@AccidentalFourierTransform no, it does not, at least to me
 
I could get to be a high rep users and have zero answers or questions o.O
 
Reading the blog post where this is explained, it appears to have been introduced to appease people on SO throwing tantrums beause they lost rep when their "fun" questions and answers were deleted :P
@AccidentalFourierTransform Well, you can only delete five of your posts per day and if you go on a deleting spree deleting upvoted content, the moderators will politely ask you to stop
 
in any case, I'm back to 9.995k :-)
 
3:52 PM
@AccidentalFourierTransform If you want to stay below 10k you should consider giving away the excess rep as bounties
 
@ACuriousMind ah, I don't know. Viewing deleted posts is fun!
 
@AccidentalFourierTransform It sure is
 
@ACuriousMind stahp
I cant see that >.<
 
the URL is hilarious though
 
3:58 PM
Grmpf, it resolves to the one with the question title for you? Then there's not much to see further
Oh, I think we're supposed to have a chat session now!
 
Hmm. One of those quiet chats... or did I get time wrong again?
 
20
Q: Could a hard drive actually have been erased as described in Cryptonomicon?

SQBIn chapter 80, The Primary, Neal Stephenson has one of his character describe how the drives of a computer carried through a door (by the police, who where raiding the facility) will have been erased. Basically, there's an enormous electromagnet around the door frame: Cantrell is now drawing ...

a question from scifi SE, that's interesting...
 
@TerryBollinger Hey there! No, I think you're right on time, it's just that chat seems rather quiet right now
 
(found in the suggestions when atempting to follow that deleted link)
 
I guess people are busy with their holidays and have no time for physics chat :P
 
4:05 PM
You could certainly damage some drives, especially older ones, with a hugely powerful door magnet, but the fatality rate from pocket pens going through heads would be a tad steep...
 
I'm fighting with pgfplots
 
Thorough, truly unrecoverable disk erasure requires powerful fields very close to the surface. Of course, there is always microwaving...
Forensic recovery looks for the random edges of bit regions that didn't quite get erased. More of that occurs, and is recoverable, than one might at first imagine. That's why full erasure protocols do so many re-writes. A door magnet could never replicate that.
Berna, whazza pgfplot? I'm old and naive.
 
wow, its been a long time since the last time I got zero results in a google search
it took me a while to understand what T was saying lol
 
Of course you could oscillate the door magnet field to prevent the pen fatalities... and likely replace them with exploding personnel from heating effects... hr might object to both strategies... :)
 
@TerryBollinger It's a LaTeX package for making plots and graphs
I'm transcribing my chemistry notes
 
4:12 PM
Berna, thanks. Now if I had just read that puppy as literally as possible to begin with... :)
organic or in?
 
General
So a bit of both
It's a very, ehm, peculiar course so to say
 
Xenon tetroxide is still my favorite, I'm old enough to recall when it was considered impossible.
 
I like Sc and it's alloys
 
'Course as a kid I loved coming up with odd chemicals that went boom...
 
A sufficiently strong MRI can erase nearby hard drives. Why not the electromagnet around the door? I agree the field must oscillate.
 
4:15 PM
Scandium is major cool, and also it's alloys! Nice pseudo-atom cluster effects. I know a fellow who created the allow that went into metal bats.
 
Woah, that's pretty badass
Ge is also very cool
If only we had as much of it as we do Si
 
@user34445 more seriously, yes, you could do pretty good damage with a strong oscillator, and not kill people. Smart phones, however...
 
I recall that some time ago before I send my computer for repairs, I rewritten some of my downloaded journal articles from the campus license and some company confidential files multiple times to esure they canno be recovered
Confidential and restricted access materials are kinda sensitive...
 
@BernardoMeurer Ge is making a comeback, the holes are much faster than in the 3-5 stuff everyone has been focusing on for decades. Plus you don't need that much total per chip. Still has a heat issue, though, a hot day make Ge awfully metallic.
 
Hey, can anyone suggest a mathematical physics textbook that'll get one started with Jackson? I'm basically inquiring for a book that should be considered as a pre-req for Jackson's book. I'm not much of a big applied math buff, hence I have run away from studying these math methods book.

I found Methods of Theoratical Physics (Volumes I and II) by Morse but that's TOO long for the time being. Any (novel) suggestions instead of the usual: Arfken, Boas etc (the book I tend to run away from as I like more abstract math books)
 
4:19 PM
Yeah, it's a shame, Si is advancing well all things considered though
 
@Terry Bollinger yes not smart phones. Just like Degaussing the memory must be volatile rather than non-volatile
 
@Secret both Erase (use only the older version!!!) and CCleaner (a safer choice if you don't know which Erase to use) can do pretty good wiping.
 
@TerryBollinger How small do you think they'll be able to make the transistors? I read up on 7nm already being stable
 
@TerryBollinger What's wrong with the newer version?
 
anyone knows if the Feynman's lectures on Physics's audio book contains as much content as the paper book?
 
4:21 PM
@Secret Use shred
 
@ACuriousMind Eraser got taken over by a different author who completely rewrote it and introduced some quite novel bugs, e.g. for a while it erased the target of a link instead of erasing the link itself, oh my, my oh my. It's better but every time I try it I still want to scream. The older version, Eraser 5.8.8, still works beautifully, is faster, safer, and available if you look for it.
@Shing it has small tidbits the book are missing! But the main coverage is I think the same. There are stupid things like undefined terms in the book that Feynman literally never said.
@BernardoMeurer I don't recall the current min estimates, but we are definitely getting closer to some hard limits. Rearranging how to do things keeps changing those limits, though.
 
@TerryBollinger IIRC someone made a 1-atom transistor using phosphorus
 
@BernardoMeurer wat
How does a single atom act as a transistor?
 
@ACuriousMind Yeah
Don't ask me, I'm a freshman and I eat glue
 
@BernardoMeurer yep, that's really Feynman's original argument from "Plenty of room a the bottom." It's interesting, he also kicked off quantum computing, but for the purpose of emulating quantum effects to make them calculable in finite time. He never thought of encryption etc, that was Peter Shor (nice guy, Dr Shor).
@BernardoMeurer dude, as long as it's Elmer's, it's got better nutrition than some cafeteria meals... :)
3
 
4:33 PM
Peter Shor's work on factorisation is amazing
@TerryBollinger Hahahaha
 
rob
@TerryBollinger I believe you mean Peter Shor
 
Yeah the fact that Shor is on this site is awesome
If he ever showed up here I'd cry
 
Is it considered rude to advertise one's unanswered questions here?
 
@Mladen Once? No. Multiple times and pinging people about it? Yes
 
@BernardoMeurer I got to interact with Dr Shor shortly after his paper, talking about emulation of the multi-state, non-temporal aspects of his algorithms using, well, basically old-school analog computing that uses hidden multistate via Fourier decomposition of the wave forms.
 
4:37 PM
@TerryBollinger Be my friend
Let's go out and eat Elmer's
 
@BernardoMeurer Dr Shor used to show up from time to time, haven't heard from him in a while.
 
rob
@Mladen You might also offer a bounty
 
@BernardoMeurer I like your style Berna, Glue is Good!
 
@Mladen If you really need an answer post a naked video talking crap about @JohnRennie and he'll answer it
3
 
@rob Still too little reputation for that
 
4:39 PM
@TerryBollinger Hahaha, I'm quite a fan of Shor, mostly because P vs. NP is my current favourite thing
 
@Mladen no, post a link here and we'll have a look.
 
@BernardoMeurer I'll consider it if it gets dire.
@JohnRennie Well, this is where I'm stuck: physics.stackexchange.com/questions/299718/…
 
@BernardoMeurer why did he have to be naked. I mean I can take criticism, but from a naked dude? Urgh!
 
@Mladen How rude
 
@BernardoMeurer Should've seen it coming
 
4:40 PM
damn, it is just so hard to get my hands on those audio files of Feynman lectures, and it is just damn costly to buy one.
 
@JohnRennie The best part is that he's naked! That video is absolutely amazing
 
I guess I have to imagine Feynman talking to me when I read the lectures
 
0
Q: Interpretation of scalar moment of inertia used to derive the virial theorem using the Reynolds transport theorem

MladenI have seen an uncommon derivation of the virial theorem and need some help understanding the physical aspects and interpretation. For an integral form of an equation, $$I = \int_{V(t)} \alpha d^3 x $$ where $\alpha$ is any single-valued scalar, vector or tensor field and $V(t)$ is a finite vol...

 
rob
@Mladen I thought it looked like an interesting question, so I put a bounty on it for you.
 
That looks quite interesting, though I'm a bit rushed at the moment so won't be able to look at it for a while.
 
4:41 PM
that's amazing, thanks!
 
@BernardoMeurer at least when Duffield is accusing me of peddling nonsense he isn't naked. At least ... I don't think so. But then ... oh my God that's an image I'm going to struggle to get out of my mind!
 
@JohnRennie I bet you a keg of beer he's naked
 
@Shing I finally caved and bought mine Feynman audio CDs years ago. That Brooklyn accent is amazing! And while the fellows who transcribed him were smart and very respectful, they definitely just did not "get" some of his finer points and more subtle emphases, such as how an event is quantum iff no information on its status exists anywhere in spacetime.
 
@BernardoMeurer no way. It he is then I'm going to need that key of beer :-)
 
@JohnRennie I am sooooo not even following this link, whatever it is... :)
 
4:44 PM
@TerryBollinger it is actually very entertaining. Let me see if I can find the link ...
 
@JohnRennie Bahaha, next time I have a layover at Heathrow we can look into it :P
 
@TerryBollinger He got criticised by a naked man on youtube
 
There you go. My claim to fame is that I got slagged off by The Naked Physicist!
 
@JohnRennie OMG just from first image!! John, I didn't know you had such... unique!... fans!
This has to qualify as one of the more interestingly laid back chats I've been in...
 
4:47 PM
Let's just say I'm very grateful there is several thousand miles of Atlantic Ocean between us ...
 
@TerryBollinger It's not every day someone goes through the trouble of making a video to talk crap about you
 
@BernardoMeurer darned right, badge of honor for John Rennie, that!
 
@TerryBollinger stop teasing me ;(
 
@Shing Buy it
 
@Shing :)
 
4:50 PM
Have you (anyone) watched any of the many lecture videos Susskind has done?
 
@JohnRennie "man lecture"?
 
I never got video critiqued, but the CMU Software Engineering Institute once banned me from all conferences on pain of them not attending if I was invited. After hyperventilating a bit one fellow noted it was kind of an honor. Bill Gates tried to get me fired once too. Gee, that was fun!!
 
I cancelled a physician appointment about getting my diet back on point to attend an impromptu barbecue
 
many lectures - that was unfortunate given the recent conversation.
 
4:53 PM
@BernardoMeurer I have this image of you squirting Elmer's on your baby back ribs...
 
@TerryBollinger It can be arranged
 
@BernardoMeurer lol
Also, what is Elmer's?
 
@JohnRennie This again?
 
@ACuriousMind A particularly tasty glue
 
@DanielSank Lol same question.
 
4:54 PM
@ACuriousMind Elmer's glue, the white water soluble stuff, good for paper, made from cows I think.
 
John Rennie - I have a request. Please stop accumulating reputation so some of us can catch up ok?
3
 
@DanielSank hey it's my one claim to fame :-)
 
@JohnRennie you still doing that interesting consulting work? I think it was short-term only though.
 
@user34445 I've actually stopped trying, but I think I've rep critical mass and am now going to form a singularity.
 
lol
 
4:56 PM
@JohnRennie watched but everything was above my head
 
@TerryBollinger yes, just signed off on an Excel spreadsheet that calculates stainless steel corrosion rates in reactor cooling systems!
 
@JohnRennie there's got to be a good video potential for that singularity forming... !
 
@JohnRennie @TerryBollinger Get me a job plz
 
@BernardoMeurer ah, you are still a freshman, yes?
 
@JohnRennie I've never quite understood why folks use spreadsheets to do calculations.
How to test?
 
4:57 PM
Yeah, but I'm, ehm, unorthodox :P
 
How to share?
 
@JohnRennie Yes, I did. That was on Cosmology and I could sustain for considerably long time in comparision to my age. He explains things wonderfully, slowly.
 
Seems incredibly likely to make mistakes.
 
@DanielSank I guess it's easy for people to use it?
 
@JohnRennie stainless steel seems like a motley mix for neutron irradiation... special versions only?
 
4:59 PM
@BernardoMeurer Testing would seem to be more of a PITA than it should.
For nuclear reactors I would want tested code.
 
@DanielSank the calculation is done in several thousand lines of highly structured visual basic. We use Excel just for the user interface.
 
@BernardoMeurer did you quit the Greek Orthodox church recently?
 
@JohnRennie ah
 
No. No tests. Just deal with things as they blow up
 
I can assure you that the calculation engine has been very thoroughly tested.
 
4:59 PM
@BernardoMeurer literally
 

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