@Dennis OK done, do you have a program that could be used to prove essentialness for any lang?

@NewMainPosts Wow, under two minutes... but still not fast enough :P

Merry (late-ish) Christmas, 19B. It is 5 in the morning and I’m gonna finally sleep c:

@noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ Not really. I made a Python wrapper for Jelly to be able to test all of them at once. Even with only 131,072 programs, executing the Jelly interpreter once for all of them would have taken ~18 hours.

@Dennis wait, what about programs that never finish running?

Do you expect to solve the halting problem?

That wasn't a concern with my submission, as it doesn't containing looping of any kind.

How does that script even work?

@Dennis Well other langs you know...

there are many special cases of the halting problem that are solvable

And golfed the solution. It's like, 23 bytes in Jelly or something.

actually, I did my PhD on languages with finite memory, all those have a solvable halting problem

@ais523 Is that because there's a finite number of states of memory and each memory state leads to exactly one other memory state, so either the program terminates or loops forever?

yep

@ais523 PhD in... CS?

yes

@noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ That's why I don't have a generalized solution checker. :P

Hmm.... Can the Collatz conjecture be related to the halting problem?

@Dennis It is of concern to others' solutions, that's why I initially believed it couldn't be pure code-golf.

@ETHproductions generalized Collatz is Turing-complete, so yes in the general sense; I'm not sure if the specific ×3+1 / ÷2 version of Collatz can be

@El'endiaStarman Woah, 23 bytes!? Are you doubting dennis or something? He obviously did it in four.

Jon Skeet did it later in C#, in response to a new user's first post question on solving the Halting Problem.

Jelly has a builtin for solving the halting problem.

@Mego and/or get This is fine

^

I suppose the and would involve writing two answers...

Bountied, but no one answered newly. :( First time there was only one response

s="'";d='"';r=['print("s="+d+s+d+";d="+s+d+s+";r=["+s+r[1]+s+","+s+r[0]+s+"];eval(r[([11]+[0])[1]])")','print("print("+d+"Wrong language!"+d+")")'];eval(r[([11]+[0])[1]])

outputs

s="'";d='"';r=['print("print("+d+"Wrong language!"+d+")")','print("s="+d+s+d+";d="+s+d+s+";r=["+s+r[1]+s+","+s+r[0]+s+"];eval(r[([11]+[0])[1]])")'];eval(r[([11]+[0])[1]])

in Python 3.

And A in JS or B in Python 3 gets you print("Wrong language!"); which prints "Wrong language!" in JS and Python 3.

@noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ I was wondering why that challenge had been bountied again; the bounty didn't seem to make much sense as it didn't do all that much the first time, and you did get an answer.

B outputs A in JS.

the funny thing is I originally posted that answer not because of the bounty, but just because I thought up a good solution

@ais523 Yes, I just wanted to see if there were more answers in the sea

the programs in question almost work in Ruby too, but it gets the newlines wrong

(also I could easily modify them to work in A Pear Tree, but it postdates the challenge)

Anyone interested in that aforementioned question, but with three languages?

I had a hard enough time understanding what my submission was supposed to do in two languages, since you're essentially writing six programs...

@noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ I wouldn't say through brute force search explicitly. Depending on the circumstances, there may be better ways.

@noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ well if you submit it as a new question, I'm totally using A Pear Tree on it :-D

VTRO please: codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/103251/…

@ais523 Is that a freshly baked esolang I smell?

It's basically Perl with a few minor changes to make it look like Python 3, plus a checksum to get around requirements about consequences of deleting/modifying characters in the source

also almost any program prints a partridge, unless it's been specifically crafted not to

the entire joke was that you can write "this program prints X in language A, Y in language B, and a partridge in A Pear Tree"

esolangs.org/wiki/A_Pear_Tree

@ais523 hahahahaha, I get it now

It's hosted on nethack servers, heh.

You just need to write (C) THE NETHACK DEVTEAM 2016

nethack4.org is mostly a gaming server, but I also use it for esolangs sometimes (also it's an email server that I use for my email)

@noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ Made a few edits that (imho) make the specification easier to read. Feel free to roll back any part to disagree with.

note that it's different from nethack.org

@El'endiaStarman I thought Halting problem was solved as unsolvable

nethack4.org was the fan-made attempt to restart development; it eventually indirectly spurred the main devteam into action

@Downgoat it's provably unsolvable in the general case, there are a ton of special cases which are solvable though

Since I have an answer and some influence on the challenge's current state, I'll refrain from using my hammer for now. I do think it's ready to be reopened though. If you agree:

@Dennis Agreed.

I just voted

almost there

@Dennis I think it's fairly problematic about how SE moderators have lower permissions than regular users in some ways, e.g. they can't cast a nonbinding reopen vote

just like as a 2k rep user, I can't make nonbinding edit suggestions

SE needs to fix that

when I was an admin on Wikipedia, I had a second account that I used if I needed to prevent automatic this-person-is-an-admin approval of actions

Idea: why not make a proxy account?

@ais523 I usually don't hesitate to use my hammer. Situations like this one are pretty rare.

actually that account still exists, but it has the same permissions as the regular account

so it doesn't have much purpose nowadays

on Wikipedia it's generally acceptable to have multiple accounts if you're honest as to the connection between them and why you're using them

btw, re that convenient palindromic quine golf

I've spent ages trying to answer it in 7

it's harder than it looks

I think I figured out a solution in octal at one point, but it was fairly long

SE also doesn't have a no multiple accounts rule. I have a sock myself, mostly for testing purposes.

writing a 7 program that's palindromic at the byte level is fairly awkward

@Dennis CMC: Find Dennis's sock.

(also, it's very easy to accidentally write an improper quine in 7, which is why I had to ask about whether deletions had to lead to a proper quine)

ugh. it should be dennis' but looks so weird that way

Is the accept button supposed to appear in the Low Quality queue? (only on your own questions, of course)

hmm, there are only seven one-command programs in 7, and two of them already fulfil PPCG questions

now I'm wondering about what sort of questions the others would fulfil

1, 5 and 6 are all fairly pointless; 3 is a cheatquine; 4 executes each stack element until it runs out, then the program crashes; 2 is an infinite loop I think

I'm not sure offhand what 0 would do, might be worth testing that

huh, eventually leads to a malformed stack crash in a fairly interesting way

It's at 4, so if you could cast a non-binding reopen vote, it would be reopened. So you can use your hammer. @Dennis

nvm it just got reopened

Back in business, folks!

is the reopen threshold 5 right now, though? IIRC it's different for different questions

So far as I know, it's always been 5 close/reopen votes for all questions.

stackoverflow.com/help/privileges/close-questions

@KritixiLithos nukilition this? it's obsolete (it's the sandbox post of the big ben challenge)

yay, new hat b/c that question

LOL, just rediscovered lost-in-translation.now.sh

I somehow got "I'll text you." -> "Or not."

---- the world -> The boy in the world

@noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ which hat?

Hero of Questions

I didn't know you could get that on your own question

"With great power comes great eleven." -> "With great power comes great wizards."

@ETHproductions Yup, it works on QtWeb. :D

"Дональд Трамп является президентом, и мы все умрем!"

@noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ D:

Donald Trump is president and we're all gonna die! -> Donald Trump killed in tractor

@zyabin101 s/Дональд Трамп/Vladmir Putin

same thing anyways

@noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ Can't stop laughing at that one. xD

"Dennis can solve the halting problem in 4 bytes." -> "Dennis does not solve the problem of stopping in 4 bytes." -> "Dionisio 4 bytes were resolved."

"tekila lime tavuk plaka tadı bakın."

"Yes, one plate of tequila lime flavored chicken." -> "Be sure to taste the wine, lime chicken dish."

CMC: find a valid English sentence of at least 20 bytes that comes out unscathed after 35 iterations.

@ETHproductions Already searching.

"I can't solve this problem. Can you help me fix it? The code is broken." -> "I can not solve this problem." first iteration

"Hello, World!" ==> "Velcome friends!"

That was my try. :/

@zyabin101 Sounds russian.

"I can not solve this problem." -> "You can solve this problem." -> "It is impossible to solve this problem."

"Kod bozuldu!"

@noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ Hey, I got the same hat. :D

@Downgoat xkcd.com/1777

couldn't get the entirety of the entry, however.

No, a flag brought the question(s) to my attention.

Flag about what?

I don't think I'm supposed to tell that.

SE made you sign a NDA?

There's a moderator agreement.

codegolf.stackexchange.com/legal/moderator-agreement

How should I answer this comment?

Crashing is allowed by default.

codegolf.stackexchange.com**/legal/**moderator-agreement

I'm not entirely sure I understood this question and your response though.

Legally binding alert!

Validation Version:    1.3

Program:               y-cruncher v0.7.1 Build 9466
Tuning:                x64 SSE3 ~ Kasumi

@Dennis ask ais

Constant:              Pi
Algorithm:             Chudnovsky Formula
Decimal Digits:        25,000,000
Hexadecimal Digits:    Disabled
Computation Mode:      Ram Only
Threading Mode:        None (No Multi-threading)  ->  1 / ?
Working Memory:        108,438,912 ( 103 MiB)
Total Memory:          112,373,184 ( 107 MiB)

Start Date:            Mon Dec 26 09:14:20 2016
End Date:              Mon Dec 26 09:15:08 2016

y-cruncher seems to work.

@noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ You answered Yes, you can., so I was kinda hoping you understood what you were allowing...

y-cruncher?

@Dennis nope!

noooope.

@noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ numberworld.org/y-cruncher

Prime numbers:	455052511
Twin primes:	27412679
Prime triplets:	5425573
Prime quadruplets:	180529
Prime quintuplets:	40414
Prime sextuplets:	1613

Elapsed time:	4.44 sec

Primesieve works, too.

@noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ I think the intention was this: If my Jelly program contained a 0 somewhere, it would be possible to delete everything but that 0 to get a program that prints its own source code. Does that mean the answer is invalid, although 0 is not a proper quine?

@Dennis no then

Hm, that means any two-byte proper quine automatically wins. (Not that I know one.)

stockexchange.com is owned by google

There's a bug in checking a quine reading its own source: I'm absolutely sure 7 in CJam has nothing that makes it read its own source.

If you want to allow this, the current wording is confusing and prints the original source should say is itself a proper quine. I fear this may open up the door to trivial solutions though. If the interpreter had been changed sooner 0\n0 would be a valid solution in RProgN.

I don't want to allow this.

o_o

> In all seriousness, this probably won't work since everyone seems to just delete the digits after the computation since they take too much space

> Took 15 years to calculate 707 decimal places

woah, you are one human GPU

why not compute just ONE more digit?

Merry Christmas, (or happy holidays)!. I need a quick piece of advice: Is it difficult to write your own web-server client from scratch in a lower-level language like C? I know you can use apache, then a level down from that is python's server stuff, but then like is a native webserver going to be a super difficult project?

> Merry Christmas,

@Mego other way around :P

not for me.

Eastern Orthodox Christmas is January 7th for me.

yeah, happy holidays. What do you celebrate?

@AshwinGupta ^^

@zyabin101 Wait, what?

Ah okay cool, well merry 13 days before Christmas!

oh yes russia and orthodox

or 12 or 14, I have no idea how many days December has, thats an approximation.

31

Do you know the knuckle trick?

@DJMcMayhem yeah I do, I'm just too lazy.

@Mego lol ik I was just being annoying ;)

@DJMcMayhem punch enough guys until they tell you the correct answer?

@noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ that works too. But you gotta find a guy who knows the trick first. So you're probably just better off learning it ;)

Lemme try the trick

> Citizen involvement helps determine government policy. Legislators listen to citizens, then respond by setting policies that state

nope, nope, and nope

...

@zyabin101 feelings on trump as a russian?

@noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ yeah good question, I'd love to know.

@noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ none yet

@zyabin101 Entirely void?

Positive, negative?

None.

I haven't really made up my mind on him. I'm going to put aside everything I thought about him pre-election, doesn't matter anymore. He is the president of the USA like any other, deserves a chance. I wish people would stop hating on him and stop praising him. Just let him work in office like any other president, then judge him afterward.

although, not really sure if I have the right to an opinion on trump, I don't pay taxes, or vote ;)

Not from the US or not old enough?

@DJMcMayhem age

or tax fraud, you never know...

Technically you still pay a little bit of taxes :P

Remind me, how do I set up CJam?

@DJMcMayhem how so?

oh nvm u mean if I was comitting fraud.

Sales tax

Please, please, please don't go into politics. You're not going to accomplish anything and it's just going to end up with everyone being annoyed

oh ok

@Downgoat good point here too.

@Downgoat Move it into the Nth Monitor! :D

let's talk about the politics of our favorite thing, code golfing.

(I can't install both Py2 and Py3 for Pyth)

@Winny XD

:)

@DJMcMayhem but see I don't pay that really either. I don't make any money, so its not me who pays sales tax, its my parents.

if i was comitting tax fraud I would be though.

@AshwinGupta no, that's income tax. If you ever buy something that's when you pay sales tax

@zyabin101 what is the actual problem?

@Winny So what do you think of our new president Denlex Enderknob?

oh I thought our president was dennis!

@DJMcMayhem right thats what Im saying. I don't make money, hence if I ever buy anything it was with money GIVEN to me earned by someone else. I don't really pay the tax, its them. But I guess I can see how I'm sorta paying.

dennis, the cjammer (!)

@Winny Our president is obviously Martin Buttner.

@AshwinGupta oic

Don't take it for granted. Not having to pay rent or taxes is nice. :P

@zyabin101 Martin Ender

@Winny He largely switches between CJam and Jelly these days, if I'm not wrong.

@DJMcMayhem hahah yeah, I still have 3 years of that :D

Mostly Python and Jelly. Haven't cjammed in a while.

Yay, starting to make a Pyramid program for incrementing a binary number

@Qwerp-Derp just curious, why?

As some of us know, workshoppers come with witty titles like "Learn you the Node for Much Win!", "Level me Up Scotty!", etc.

@AshwinGupta that just ended for me 10 days ago, lol

What witty title like this would be good for the CJam workshopper?

@Doorknob ok this is actually really cool, I'd totally use it, if I knew how to use VIM. Im stuck w/ nano right now because its easy.

@DJMcMayhem wow... that must suck. But then again, you just became an adult, so you kinda get to do whatever u want. Awesome. I'd call it a draw.

No, I've been an adult for a while now. Just moved out recently

oh I see, well still, ur an adult.

@AshwinGupta What do you mean "why"

For fun, of course

@Qwerp-Derp yeah that was all I was looking for.

I was just curious if it was for some reason.

Like practice, assignment, etc. I figured it wasn't for a job.

@AshwinGupta technically, I guess. I feel more like this:

@DJMcMayhem LMAO, love that one

thats in my "best of xkcd" collection

I tried to keep that collection small at first, I told myself no more then 20, but its at 80+ now =/

I might be to easy to amuse, or xkcd is just that good.

"Peanut Butter and CJam"

Or both

There, is that name witty? :3 ^^

possibly.

ok bye

gtg

You should see my "best of xkcd" collection. It's basically just every single one of them

@AshwinGupta bye! O/

We need Jelly Chuck Norris memes.

Ooh I have a metagolf challenge

Dammit I always get ideas from Numberphile

Using the digits 1 to 9 once only, and a bunch of various operations, approximate pi to as many digits as possible

Operations include: +-*/, ., recurrence, factorials and powers

Two or more numbers can be joined together as well

Is anyone on?

can people please go to this link and post their scores in ms

@Qwerp-Derp this is usually the slowest time

@wat 1333.9ms on Galaxy S5 with Snapdragon 801 and 1.7 GB RAM running Android 7.1.1 running Chrome 55.

@betseg I got exactly 200ms

Specs? :P

custom built desktop with core i5-4690k with 16gb ram running windows 10 pro insider edition running Chrome 57

and with THIS MANY tabs open

With 16 gigs i don't think that costs too much

Also, Android is on Java

@wat What GPU?

@wat 169.3 MS on my laptop. I'm sure my desktop would be faster

My GPU is Adreno 330, integrated to the CPU

@DJMcMayhem Gigabyte Nvidia GeForce GTX 970 G1 Gaming

(longest GPU name ever)

Or just GTX970? :p

Nice. Those are some pretty solid specs. Did you build it yourself?

^^

@DJMcMayhem yes with the help of r/buildapc

@betseg It has a certain factory overclock

Ah k

@Dennis Could you pull V?

Ooh yeah @Dennis here's a link to the interpreter: github.com/Qwerp-Derp/Pyramid/blob/master/interpreter.py

@wat Total: 527.4ms +/- 48.6%

I'd post the link but it's too long for this chat apparently