Update: a blog post based on feedback here and elsewhere:
Respect the community – your own, and others’
The history of migration
Stack Exchange has grown considerably over the past few years... When Server Fault first launched, it was an attempt to replicate the formula that had wor...
a specific programming problem, or a software algorithm, or software tools commonly used by programmers; and is a practical, answerable problem that is unique to software development
For instance, all questions could be migrated to dba.se, but dba.se is pretentious and thinks most questions on SO are bad, or not-professional so they skirt around defining their site in terms of content and instead prefer to define it in terms of subject matter.
@EvanCarroll As someone professing you want to be a moderator here, you certainly aren't showing the existing set of professionals here and professional decorum
For instance, all questions could be migrated to dba.se, but dba.se is pretentious and thinks most questions on SO are bad, or not-professional so they skirt around defining their site in terms of content and instead prefer to define it in terms of intent. Stack Overflow on the other hands refuses to migrate questions that are *on-topic* there and they don't really define what that means, and because all *programmers* are enthusiasts and everything can be used by a programmer, *everything* is pretty much on topic there all the time.
This is your second warning. Please quit being rude to the people who have been dedicated to this site for years, and who have tried to help craft it to be a knowledgeable resource. You'll notice that I often come to your side when people have negative things to say, so please consider the source.
But more to the point. That guys question sat on StackOverflow for days until I told him about DBA.SE individually, then he cross-posts and deletes the original. That's a problem that a lot of people have.
@EvanCarroll We've been over this before though. I have some empathy with your views (toned down in my head) but the existing consensus on both metas does not align with your views.
Anyway, I've never actually brought this up on meta.dba.se, which is something I need to do. The first thing that has to happen, is all sql topics have to become on-topic here. That's an argument I gotta make on meta.dba sometime. Until then, everyone can just be confused a little bit longer.
@EvanCarroll I'll admit to being somewhat conflicted as well, because part of me likes the special focus the site was created with, but then I see good, but basic, database questions being answered and not closed by the community here.
@EvanCarroll I wasn't around, but if you search Database Administrators Meta you'll see we were told quite explicitly by TPTB that dba.se would be shut down if it didn't go with the expert focus thing.
@swasheck np I have to say stuff because blue colour.
I’m going to buck the pervasive mentality here and ask the question:
Why shouldn’t dba.stackexchange.com include basic SQL questions?
Previous related discussions:
How do we define a question as being "too basic"? Where do we draw the line?
Beginner's questions (convert Access queries and ...
I am. I am claiming your conclusion from the pilot period was a bad one and should be re-evaluated for more contemporary effects -- basic cost-benefit. The benefit we stand is eliminating a few questions that are too trivial (which we have no evidence we're doing -- I'm still answering typo-questions here). And the cost is confusing users that could otherwise be automatically directed here on the basis of tags and textual analysis to a community more specialized in SQL.
Personal view (mod hat off) is that basic questions should be allowed, but the quality bar would need to be as high (perhaps higher) than for more advanced questions.
the difficulty is that basic's too subjective. but if it's already got a decent answer that is portable to the question's use case, then it's already been answered. i've never liked the "close/on hold" mechanism for this because it seems to invalidate the question.
@jcolebrand why not just use that one. I, unlike many, don't have a desire to reinvent wheels where this is no problem. His answer actually covers things that I don't see as problems here. I think it underemphasize the topicality of both sites, but it's a really damn good answer. Leigh Riffel get an Evan Cookie.
i think that the big hangup is the question of rep. some people love and want it, others just want enough to participate in chat to glean knowledge from folks like KiwiSmurf and TypooCube
@jcolebrand you say that. But I just asked a question on MSO.DBA and had it dupe-closed for a question that was YEARS older (and it was a dupe, I'm not contesting it being closed).
I think providing some advice on formatting would be useful. I'm thinking that we could at least update this FAQ question to request text, and further SQL for test data.
Formatting
When possible do not include pictures where text would otherwise do, and even better than text is the necessary SQ...
I'm answering questions in both stacks and my impression is that SO have a stronger SQL community while DA is more about design and infrastructure. — Dudu Markovitz6 mins ago
@swasheck It is subjective if we get all lawyer-y about the meaning of 'basic'. That's true of an awful lot of things on SE and IRL though. Common sense may apply. I think quality and site value are pretty strong indicators.
I think there is a fragmentation that is totally arbitrary on the community of those that ask questions, but a fragmentation on those that answer questions that leads me to believe there is vastly more skill here.
@PaulWhite I completely agree with this. However none of the metrics that we use here are necessarily qualitative which leads to these kinds of debates. Not a bad thing, but it simply is what it is. As you said, so much in life is subjective.
So we're consigned to periodic debates about jurisdiction, I guess
Take a look at what I claimed was the best question on DBA.SE, and sql that I've seen all year. That damn postgresql question that I struggle to answer.
@PaulWhite I know. I'm not disagreeing with you, but I may not be communicating well. There is a large element of subjectivity here. Do we accept it and move on, knowing it will require these conversations every so often? Or do we see it as a flaw in the system that can be eased/fixed/removed?
@EvanCarroll I would like to think that borderline questions have a better chance of being improved on a lower volume site like ours. Notwithstanding the current counterexample.
@JackDouglas I think I could see a non-recursive solution working quite well, possibly very well, so long as rows that link (i.e. that have any common elements) appear sequentially in the input data. As so often with these questions, it's not clear whether that is the case or not.
@PaulWhite Yeah, I saw that. Under certain assumptions, a non-recursive answer might be an option. And obviously would have more chances to be efficient that a recursive one.
For the general case, I can't see how a non-recursive solution would work.
@ypercubeᵀᴹ If it were a SQL Server question, that's one of the angles I would pursue - a streaming CLR function/procedure.
@ypercubeᵀᴹ If general means rows that link might be in arbitrary order, yes. Though a sequential approach would still be possible, but a possibly large amount of memory would be needed for caching incomplete groups.
Native compilation on an in-memory object could be fun too. Batch mode columnstore generally flies through aggregations as well.
@EvanCarroll Did you phrase it as "I know this other question exists, and I want to improve because it seems incomplete, and we should consider an amendment" did you just provide it as-is with no context of research or intent? Additionally, in response to your suggestion, I believe (I may be outdated, room please correct me) we ask people to provide a working SqlFiddle to provide their test data and test cases for best analysis.
I think providing some advice on formatting would be useful. I'm thinking that we could at least update this FAQ question to request text, and further SQL for test data.
Formatting
When possible do not include pictures where text would otherwise do, and even better than text is the necessary SQ...
@jcolebrand My take was that Evan was unaware of the older Q & A and missed it in search. Hard to believe given the awesome capabilities of search, I know.
@TomV sorry to hear it. i've not been in the mood for partying in about ... 15 years ... but i do enjoy getting out and about to separate from real life
@ypercubeᵀᴹ Having been a host to the Icelandic team for the Special Olympics a few years ago where some of the athletes stayed at our place, I can attest each and every one of them spoke English
Even the so called mentally disabled kids or how does that translate...
The TSQL parser has an implicit conversion between an single-part identifier and a string, when used as the argument to a procedure. It does not implicitly convert multi-part identifiers to strings.
When a token in the batch is a regular identifier or a delimited Identifier, it can be implicitly...
Community Wiki answer by the question author covering comment contributions. Feel free to improve.
@JJs I only wanted to mention that quoting can be done with " as well. Please reverse my edit or keep what will make the answer more clear. — ypercubeᵀᴹ1 min ago
@ypercubeᵀᴹ It's CW. The community is supposed to edit it to improve it, and curate it over time, collaboratively.
@ypercubeᵀᴹ Looks good to me, except the "but really are all except letters, digits and the underscore _. When any of these character is used in an identifier," part. That doesn't parse.
I still hate all of the square bracket crap. Everything about it encourages bad practice. Can't use a reserved word? Just stick square brackets round it! Win!
@Philᵀᴹ Yeah. It is useful for people that feel strongly about spaces in identifiers, for whatever reason, and for tools that generate names that aren't valid regular identifiers.
I've been using Visio 2002/2003 Enterprise Architect to do my database schema design visually and then forward-generate the DDL to create the database.
I wanted to switch to Visio 2007, but while it does have database diagramming support, it doesn't have the ability to generate DDL. Bummer.
I ...
I’m going to buck the pervasive mentality here and ask the question:
Why shouldn’t dba.stackexchange.com include basic SQL questions?
Previous related discussions:
How do we define a question as being "too basic"? Where do we draw the line?
Beginner's questions (convert Access queries and ...
I've been using Visio 2002/2003 Enterprise Architect to do my database schema design visually and then forward-generate the DDL to create the database.
I wanted to switch to Visio 2007, but while it does have database diagramming support, it doesn't have the ability to generate DDL. Bummer.
I ...
