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1:46 AM
@JosephWright @AnyMod Could somebody unfreeze the Forest chat room again, please? chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/30992
@AlanMunn Are you around? I have a Forest question ...
Q: How can I upgrade Forest code for={Lu}{} so that my diagram compiles with current Forest?

cfrI created the following diagram using Forest version 1: \documentclass[tikz,border=10pt]{standalone} \usepackage{forest-1}% forest v.1 \begin{document} \begin{forest} for tree={ font=\sffamily\scriptsize, line width=1pt, draw, anchor=west, child anchor=west, parent ...

@AlanMunn I must surely be missing something blindingly obvious ....
@cfr Sorry, but this is out of my range of forest knowledge, at least without doing some serious messing around (which I don't have time for right now, unfortunately). As a linguist my needs are too simple (binary branching trees with some arrows occasionally). :)
@JosephWright I'm so glad I'm not the only person using svn. I really, really tried to sit down and understand the basics of git last week so I could put the workshop code on GitHub. But I gave up. It is still in my personal svn repo and now on OverLeaf. Subversion was not difficult to start to learn. Git is just a mystery.
@AlanMunn I thought you'd say that ;(. I'm really puzzled by the effect of the compat=1.0-all key. How the hell does that happen to it?!
4 hours later…
6:02 AM
@cfr that's a very precise description :)
6:53 AM
@PauloCereda prayers with you, Brazil!
7:31 AM
@cfr Try again and harder! :) There are Git for Subversion users tutorials.
I admit Git CLI is horrible though.
1 hour later…
8:49 AM
@yo' <3
@PauloCereda Not much is known yet :-(
@yo' I have the news channel on during all morning. It's so sad. :(
9:11 AM

I am using scrbook, and I would be grateful if anyone could tell me how to make the chapter prefix be "CHAPTER 1: <title>" on the same line of title without line break.
9:22 AM
@cfr I've said before that I find the Git CLI) user interface less friendly than Mercurial, though one gets used to it
@cfr I probably use Git in a rather 'SVN like' way: the most complex set up I have is for siunitx, where I have two branches (at present rather divergent, normally not that different). I do like having the log data locally: makes looking back over things on the train easy!
@cfr I'm sure you've seen various 'SVN <-> Git' guides. I suppose I routinely use perhaps half a dozen commands
2 hours later…
10:54 AM
@PauloCereda Really a tragedy
@egreg it is, according to the authorities, only 5 survivors.
11:19 AM
Hi Tex community,
@CroCo Aloha!
Is there a place where one can be volunteer for Tikz ?
Open sources may be
3 hours per week will be good for me.
I'm thinking to pick books and draw its graphs to reinforce my skills.
You mean a course?
Not learning but practicing
I know some people do some online works for money (e.g. C++). I'm willing to help for free just to be in touch with coding.
@CroCo most open source projects you don't really volunteer in advance, just offer patches and see if they are accepted.
11:32 AM
You can search for questions here and help people. :)
@PauloCereda too slow
@CroCo in what sense?
@DavidCarlisle I don't know much about open sources. I thought people share their works.
@PauloCereda even though I'm doing that but I like to participate in a complete tasks.
@CroCo good luck then. Maybe this community is not good enough for you.
@PauloCereda don't get me wrong. This community is a great help to me. I've learned a lot and I'm doing my best to return the favor. I'm seeking places where some people seek projects. For example, drawing circuits for electrical courses.
11:43 AM
@CroCo most likely place is here, as a question.
@CroCo Ah I see, sorry for the confusion. :) My suggestion would be: take a look at some TikZ efforts, like existing libraries or packages that heavily rely on it. Surely the authors could benefit from contributed code. Contact them or simply experiment changes and improvements. You could also work on your own personal projects, so it's a nice start!
@DavidCarlisle Thank you.
@PauloCereda Thank you.
I will hunt in Google hope that I can find some places for this matter. :)
12:43 PM
You are now all talking in Andika New Basic font thanks to the Stylish plugin.
@wilx No Comic Sans? :)
@PauloCereda I actually tried it but meh. :)
@wilx :)
@wilx: can you enclose every message in a <marquee> element?
@PauloCereda I do not think that Stylish allows me to do that. I would have to do that in Greasmonkey or such. :)
12:56 PM
@wilx ooh do it. :)
@PauloCereda -- i'm sad too, for everyone who is affected. a terrible thing.
1:15 PM
@barbarabeeton <3
It is done and I blame you!
@wilx oooooooh screenshot please. <3
@PauloCereda lol :D
1:40 PM
@PauloCereda even better than your th....?
@DavidCarlisle oh
@DavidCarlisle lol
FYI, you can do this by invoking this from browser console: $('.content').wrap('<marquee></marquee>');
@wilx it works! Yay!
Yes! Much better!
2:30 PM
ohh my
3:00 PM
@PauloCereda try it with $('.content').wrap('<marquee>🦆🦆🦆<span></span></marquee>');
3:12 PM
@DavidCarlisle Nice! :D
3:22 PM
I'm having some problems with encoding for our company-class. Since we only write in norwegian, we need UTF-8-support, therefore, I wanted to add '\RequirePackage[utf8]{inputenc}` as the first package loaded by the class, but somehow this doesn't work at all. If I don't add the line, and only use \usepackage[utf8]{inputenc} in the document, it works like I would expect it to. If I add both, it doesn't work.
By "doesn't work" I mean that the utf-8-support is broken. Should I create a question for this?
3:52 PM
@RunarTrollet We might at least need to see more code. In our University letter class, I ended up removing inputenc, that is the users job not mine. Also you don't know if the user is using pdflatex, xelatex, lualatex where forcing inputenc might be problematic. I just ended up writing (and requesting others do the same in their department config files for the class) special letters as TeX codes, aka ascii. Then it always works (almost, some font packages forget to define say \o)
You get into the same problems if you try to force babel (I also left that one out)
@RunarTrollet MWE?
I guess creating a question is not out of the question!
4:19 PM
@wilx The thing is, I'm not sure it would even make sense for me to use git instead of svn. So I was trying to figure out how to move some things under svn to git without losing their history and without changing my svn repo to git. [My svn repo is local on my machine and it is used exclusively by me on two machines, which both hold copies of it. All of the user guides assume a more standard case and assume source code is the issue, multiple users etc.] Besides, CLI is crucial.
@RunarTrollet it should work although to be honest it's better to declare it in the document. the file encoding is a property of (each) file not a property of the class.
@JosephWright My svn repo is local anyway. I just have a copy on one or two machines and back ups on external disk and in the cloud.
@cfr we use svn exclusively at work, for a repository that does have a clear master copy git as a source code control doesn't really have a lot over svn I'd say, but for open projects where you want to expose the history and issue tracker etc github is really one of the better web interfaces so (especially since google killed googlecode) I've been tending to use git(hub) for personal projects,site)
4:38 PM
@cfr there are various tools for creating Git versions of SVN histories, either at the 'user end' or from the server (see SubGit, for example, which we use for LaTeX3)
@DavidCarlisle Well it depends on your workflow but I do know what you mean (depends whether you like the 'lots of branches' approach)
4:56 PM
@JosephWright we have a few dozen branches in svn is that lots? (versions and point versions and individual developers experimental branches, they all seem to merge back OK when required (better than cvs)
@JosephWright do I remember you saying you were looking again at what we need to do for tu encoding, probably we should do it since it's nearly Christmas, so I'm told:-)
@DavidCarlisle Yes ;)
@DavidCarlisle Those are 'permanent-ish' branches I guess? That works OK with SVN (though I personally do prefer the way Git only shows one branch at a time): I was thinking of the 'you branch for development of a feature or similar' way that various people suggest working, which is less well supported by SVN (for example, everyone has to have the branches in SVN rather than being able to branch locally)
@DavidCarlisle I'm not going to try to sell any particular version control system to anyone :) As you say, the big plus for git for open source things is the GitHub interface rather than anything else
@DavidCarlisle I think my favourite Git thing is the log tool, which works better than the SVN, at least for me (could be a Windows thing ...)
5:14 PM
@JosephWright I tend to use svn log > foo.txt then look in emacs:-)
@StefanKottwitz LC is under attack again. This time (mostly) russian spam. Just deleted 7 posts, a few each of several days before.
5:33 PM
@JosephWright I use branches. I didn't know svn could show more than one at a time. But maybe I don't understand what you mean.
@DavidCarlisle GitHub is really the attraction. But I like subversion for documents and I like have my custom code under the same vcs. subversion is rather painfully slow, at least with a local file-system repo. But I can live with that. I guess there is probably some maintenance thing I don't know to do which makes it slow. I just thought if I could put the code for the workshop on GitHub, it would work quite nicely. The original is there and OverLeaf now integrates with GitHub.
5:58 PM
Hello everyone!
Do you know if pdflatex, xelatex or lualatex ever write to stderr when there wasn't really an error?
I noticed that pdflatex from MiKTeX will write to stderr if it has encountered some serious error. The output to stderr is relatively short and informative (unlike the output to stdout or a LaTeX log file, which typically contain 90% irrelevant information for most debugging we do).
Is this usually the case?
6:13 PM
@cfr With SVN if you check out the 'top level' you end up with each branch as a separate directory within in. In contrast, a Git checkout only ever shows one branch so there's not this (to me) issue: I know @DavidCarlisle feels it's fine :)
@cfr I'm sure if you can give an example of your workflow I can 'translate' (I use both SVN and Git reasonably routinely, though can't claim to be a real expert in either!)
6:43 PM
@Szabolcs No, never.
@Zarko (related to this question) Yup, I indeed didn't succeed in truthworthyly reproducing OP's table ! Side question: how do you get this colored border around your screenshots? Do you edit the file ex-post?
7:08 PM
@ebo, ji! the green border is done by Snipping tool by which I select image on screen. I choose it in option of this tool.
i wont to say hi!, but have faight with new keyboard. it is slightly different from old one
Question: Why does LaTeX write so much font-relatex stuff I don't care about to the .log? I means messages that I do care about zip fast when I compile.
7:24 PM
@Canageek Such as?
@JosephWright defining Unicode char U+00D8 (decimal 216)
LaTeX Font Info: Redeclaring symbol font `operators' on input line 151.
LaTeX Font Info: Overwriting symbol font `operators' in version `normal'
(Font) OT1/cmr/m/n --> OT1/cmr/m/n on input line 151.
Package textcomp Info: Setting futx sub-encoding to TS1/4 on input line 395.
@Canageek Ah: 'Because it's a material change in the set up which affects the final output' - ask @FrankMittelbach for more ;)
@JosephWright I guess it isn't as bad as Chemmacros which adds ............. above and below everything it does
. LaTeX info: "xparse/define-command"
. Defining command \NewChemSymbol with sig. 'mm' on line 2795.
My latest TikZ creation:
You could fit those five lines into one
7:27 PM
@Canageek That's us again :)
@Danu Pretty
Thanks :)
@JosephWright v.v Why is that five lines instead of one?
@Canageek So each message is clearly delineated
@Canageek New document commands change the semantics of LaTeX => important
@JosephWright I wonder how much faster this would compile if it didn't have to write all this out command line?
7:29 PM
@Canageek Very little
@JosephWright (I once wrote a program that took so long to run I thought it was in an infinite loop. Once I turned off almost all the output it finished as soon as I ran it)
@Canageek Unless you \tracingall beamer you are likely safe!
@JosephWright Still, it does a lot to hide imporant messages like 'option depricated'
@JosephWright Would be nice to have a 'user facing' message option.
Or a 'only if this is unexpected/wrong'
a .logall and a .logbad or such
.all.log .bad.log?
@Canageek For the LaTeX3 warnings there is a mechanism to turn them off
\msg_redirect_class:nn { info } { none }
\msg_redirect_class:nn { warning } { none }

For example: I have no idea how long lastpage has been trying to get me to move to the must worst named pageslts package.
I mean, Lastpage tells me what it does. wtf does pageslts do? Is lastpagex so bad?
7:38 PM
Hi everyone,

This is maybe a naive question for koma-script, but I totally forget how to do it. I did prefix "CHAPTER" to chapter entries in toc using


However, it also affects lof and lot titles in toc. So, is there any way to confine this manipulation to normal chapters only?
7:59 PM
@DiaaAbidou Place the redefinition afterwards.
@Canageek When NFSS was written it was like entering a new universe. Just remember that prior to it it was like cars from Ford: you could have any color as long is it was black. So understanding what got changed and how was an important feature (still is if things go wrong though fortunately that is not happening often any longer.
it is again in the world of unicode and unicode fonts as there it is again luck if things work end-to-end ... but unfortunately for this NFSS tracing doesn#t really help you
@FrankMittelbach So it made a lot of sense at the time, even if now it is mostly visual overload?
@Canageek well most of it is only log, so not that much visual (unless you are one of those people that read the .log file
the problem this these things is that if you turn them off completely then you never get to see them if somebody is in trouble (which is why I tend to keep info in the .log file)
@FrankMittelbach Yeah, I watch for compile errors and messages from packages as it compiles. How else would I see all the packages telling me to update, or the overfull hboxes? >.>
It is so odd how many papers report using Shelx97 to solve their structures. Imagine if people refused to update LaTeX since 1997. (Please tell me they don't do that)
8:20 PM
@Canageek 1997 is quite new really ... I have seen older installations :-)
@FrankMittelbach In 1997 I think we had a Windows 3.1 computer with a 386 in it. We MIGHT have gotten a used 486 running Windows 95 by then that never worked right.
@Canageek Miles Davis
@FrankMittelbach The performer?
as in "So what" ... from kind of blue :-9
Many thanks. I came across a weird behavior when using \appendix command.

I found that all prefixes of chapter entries in ToC have an additional dot. For example, <CHAPTER 1: title> has become <CHAPTER1:. title>. This behavior only shows up when using \appendix command.

How can I fix this?
8:31 PM
@DiaaAbidou On second look, i cannot even see the colon. Maybe ask another question. Our KOMA-expert @esdd will be around.
@FrankMittelbach Software and hardware have evolved a lot since then, people should probably update.
@Canageek of course they should ... just saying I have seen worse :-)
@FrankMittelbach Frank! <3
@PauloCereda Hi Paulo
8:53 PM
@Canageek Shelx97 was the standard for a long time: it's when you see Shelx76 you need to worry! (We had some data recently unreported but run about 20 years ago so done with 76: luckily someone had kept the crystals so we could re-run!)
@Canageek Speaking of X-ray, have finally decided I need to learn to use Olex2
@Johannes_B Thanks for letting me know; please, be informed that I have posted my question here tex.stackexchange.com/q/341577/2288.
9:18 PM
@JosephWright It is a good program: I use it for some things. I prefer to solve crystals to start with in ShelxLE, but often fiddle with the disoorder in OLEX2. I don't like how much it mucks about with my res file though. I've got those comments in place for a reason, stop shoving them to the top of the file!
Very good for doing hfix and difx and such though, far easier.
@JosephWright Yeah, but when a paper comes out in 2016 using 97? o.0 (That said, I bet all the bugs are known by now, unlike 2016/6....)
9:30 PM
@JosephWright @Canageek
Q: Why is my alchemy lab making the wrong potions?

HorusOk, so I have been having issues with my alchemy lab in the game Skyrim. I am trying to make potions of restore health, but it is making fortify health instead. I am using wheat and blue mountain flowers, which should have both effects, restore and fortify, and i'm under the restore health tab....

@JosephWright I mean, I was 9 in 97
@DiaaAbidou In case you want to undelete your question, I guess tex.stackexchange.com/questions/223798/… is a suitable duplicate to close it.
9:46 PM
Btw, would anyone join me for a ride from Prague to Bachotek for TUG'17? If I'm not alone, I'll quite surely go there by car. Also, bed(s) available in Prague around the event. @PauloCereda ?
@Canageek so why are you using a typesetting engine hardly changed since 1993?
@JosephWright Oh, I don't think I ever check out the top-level. I have a repo on another logical volume of my disk in a directory svn. The top-level has sub-directories according to purpose e.g. teaching, work, texmf etc. (OK, not necessarily in English, but those are the kinds of meanings.) Each of those has branches, tags and trunk as is standard. Each of the top-level directories corresponds to some working directory in my home. ...
If I branch, I check out the bit that I care about into the relevant sub-directory of my working copy. Or, rather, I switch the existing sub-directory to the relevant branch. So I work with a mixed working copy (I can't remember the technical term). Usually, branches correspond to alternative versions of papers e.g. a version which cuts out all the stuff about Y to focus on X. I tag journal submissions. I should tag or branch modules, but I don't. I just create another sub-directory in trunk.
@DavidCarlisle It is heavily changed! It has SIunitx, chemacros, etc.
10:01 PM
@Canageek has it, I never noticed:-) (but I meant the executable, really)
@DavidCarlisle Admittedly, it could use an upgrade to account for the fact that modern computers have GB of memory.
@DavidCarlisle Well, the second I can publish in LuaLaTeX and use OTF fonts....
The repo is synchronised between 2 machines, if I am currently using 2, or kept on 1 otherwise. Then it is backed up to hard disk and the cloud. I sync either using the cloud or using unison usually. That's really it. I then make heavy use of svn-prov and svn-multi in documents/classes etc. @JosephWright
@cfr If you use SVN properties then Git is not for you: there's a philosophical position for Git that things like revision number don't 'belong' in sources
@cfr From a Git POV they'd normally I think be separate repos: hard to see that there's a single history
@JosephWright How are you meant to keep track of things, then?
@JosephWright That would probably be better, but doesn't work with svn.
@cfr Well Git, like other version control systems, is primarily aimed at code with a 'compilation' step. So if you want the hash (there are no revision numbers in Git) in your 'output', you script this to be added during the 'build' phase.
10:08 PM
@JosephWright And, yes, I use svn properties heavily, including the automatic properties which I rely on a lot. Especially for research so I can tell whether printed copy is current or note which revision I'm sending in an email.
@cfr For say a release of something one normally expects to mark it as such: a human intervention step
@JosephWright Maybe svn is just better for documents? Even a .cls doesn't really seem to fit that model.
@cfr One can arrange to add the Git hash to a PDF typeset with LaTeX (see gitinfo, etc.), but not to the source itself. The same is more-or-less true of all DCVS systems (we had some 'fun' with beamer for a while as my co-maintainer set up Mercurial in an SVN-like way)
@JosephWright I don't think I'd like that :(.
@cfr One would normally still expect to have 'release versions' (or at least I would, as I'd have the source as a .dtx and need to build/extract for release)
@cfr Don't use a DCVS, then: it's at-best an add-on concept (Mercurial) or simply not available at all (Git) (I've not tried the same thing in Bazaar)
10:13 PM
@JosephWright I just tag releases of prooftrees, for example. Or use a branch for a substantial change I'm experimenting with. So I have a pgfmath branch and 0.3 and 0.4 tags. (I didn't used to keep code in svn.)
@JosephWright I was only really considering using it for the workshops on LaTeX. I could probably live without properties there. But those are in sub-directories of sub-directories of ... so I'd need a way to extract them, preferably with their histories, and put them in git. And I'd ideally keep them in a sub-directory of my svn working copy (but this should be fine as I can just tell svn to ignore them). But the instructions I found seemed designed for whole repos and I couldn't figure it out.
@Canageek Because it doesn't know you are not me. I frequently look at the log precisely to check stuff about fonts.
@cfr Hummm. Still wish there was someway to highlight messages normal humans care about, like "this package is depreciated", "hey idiot, this line extends into the margin" and "this font you are trying to use doesn't exist as you got the order of them backwards"
@Canageek Thanks a lot.
@cfr (I count you and most of the other people in chat as latex demigods, not normal humans)
10:29 PM
@JosephWright You couldn't unfreeze the Forest chat room could you?

 forest v2.0

Let's test it!
@AlanMunn Could you try this?

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