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6:02 PM
@JohnRennie Perhaps, I do question that though, the air coming from the exhaust is toasty
 
@SwapnilDas How many pages have I got?
 
@dmckee New thesis? :P
 
I do an analogy version for my gen-ed classes, but it takes about 40 minutes of class-time and their active participation in a couple of activitites.
 
@GPhys Interesting! Why go with a source-based distribution on such a low-power system though?
 
It writes up in 4-6 pages depending on how much detail you want to include.
 
6:03 PM
@dmckee One :P
 
@GPhys You gotta chroot to reach a terminal
 
@BernardMeurer Portage is perfectly capable of binary package installation as well
 
so I guess Crouton does replace it with Ubuntu, curious
 
Not much detail, Sir. Just basic idea.
 
I believe they just wanted the flexibility of the package management system
 
6:04 PM
@GPhys Capable, but that's not the philosophy of the distro, right?
I don't run Gentoo or know much about it
 
@BernardMeurer You know better than that. Those things are only "low power" by comparison to very modern machines. I'd have killed for a machine with those specs in grad school.
 
@BernardMeurer I assume dpkg just didn't meet their needs for some reason
I ran Gentoo for a long time; Portage is hyper capable so it's hard to say what specifically they wanted out of it
 
@dmckee Sure, but when you did grad school a PDP-11 was state of the art :P
@dmckee Take that, l00ser
 
My "big" analysis machine in grad school 9which I made my advisor spend a bundle on) was a 400 MHz PII. With 256 MB of ram (expensive!)
@BernardMeurer Nahw. But one experiment I worked on actually had one of those thingsfor the first year.
 
@dmckee on a serious note though:
1. I only did that joke because I know you're one of the very few here who know what a PDP-11 is
2. Compiling things is hard even for powerful machines. Specially larger packages, try compiling a GNU toolchain and feel the bern
 
6:07 PM
@HDE226868 Yeah, I noticed ;-).
 
It was a sign of high braise if the operators (BOFHs, really) would let you set at the (teletype!) console and enter a command.
 
The first computer I used had 4K of RAM :-)
 
@GPhys Why did you leave Gentoo?
 
also as long as you're not compiling open office, a web browser, or gcc, compilation time really isn't a big deal
 
@GPhys I compile GCC every 2 days (not joking)
 
6:07 PM
@BernardMeurer It's just an overnight job. I used to start kernel compiles as I left for the night.
 
@JohnRennie Tell us more stories :P
 
compiling GCC is a joke because you compile it ~3 times iirc (possibly depends on your initial compiler)
 
@JohnRennie Got me beat, my first was an upgraded Aplle ][+, so it a "64K card" (and a 80 columns card, woot!).
 
@dmckee Lol, teletype
 
the idea is every release of GCC should be compiled with that same version of GCC
 
6:08 PM
It was a Commodore Pet
 
so the way it works is your system compiler compiles a version of GCC capable of compiling the full GCC, that version of GCC compiles full GCC, then full GCC compiles itself
 
@JohnRennie Used one. Hated it.
 
@GPhys You're good if you're using GCC x to compile GCC y for y<=x
But if y>x you need to compile twice
 
@dmckee they didn't compare favorably to the Apple II, but in 1978 that was all there was ...
 
@JohnRennie Not a sinclair? And you call yourself a brit?
 
6:10 PM
@BernardMeurer that's what I'm saying
 
@BernardMeurer I couldn't afford my own computer in those days. The Pet belonged to the school.
 
@JohnRennie The problem was that I used them in a physics lab in 1989. They were good deal for the dollar when they were available, but ...
 
but with an additional one if you're not compiling from GCC at all
 
@HDE226868 you mean this one? that's roughly what was in the original version, before I was successfully steered away from a bar chart (which in retrospect is indeed rubbish). I'm not sure the horizontal axis is that well used in the new version, though.
 
@BernardMeurer I got a macbook pro for hardware mostly
 
6:11 PM
@BernardMeurer That's why I have a laptop buying compulsion. It was my deprived childhood :-)
 
@JohnRennie you ever use one of these?
 
I'll probably go back to Linux after this
 
@GPhys macOS is a great operating system
 
An acoustic coupler!
 
@EmilioPisanty LOL
 
6:11 PM
I remember those :-)
 
@JohnRennie Hahahaha, it all makes sense now!
 
OSX is okay but I prefer Linux and people are making capable enough laptop hardware these days
 
@EmilioPisanty I have. With a teletype terminal actuall.
 
@GPhys I'm dying to try macOS out
 
Dad used to bring one home sometime to talk to his work mainframe.
 
6:12 PM
I used Gentoo from since when Vista was released until last year
 
@dmckee so something like this one?
 
I ran Gentoo unstable actually...
>.>
 
(#yolo)
 
And the mainframe also had a the animals game on it...
 
6:13 PM
@GPhys Brave
 
Gentoo unstable runs (attempts to run) the latest stable version of software according to upstream
 
@EmilioPisanty SImilar, but it was a hard-copy machine. 132 column fanfold.
 
@GPhys I once used an experimental file system for 6 months :P
 
@dmckee I've got no idea what any of that means
 
6:13 PM
If you go back to the earliest cartoons, around 1997, it's quite nostalgic.
 
@EmilioPisanty Like this: pdp8.net/images/greenbar.shtml
With the green bars and everything.
 
I'm officially teaching a Physics II (E&M) lab next semester
 
user218912
@GPhys good luck
 
@dmckee I remember playing Hunt the Wumpus ona teletype.
 
@GPhys doing the E&M semester is a mixed blessing. The worst students may have been weeded out, but the labs are more detail oriented.
 
6:16 PM
@dmckee oh, ok. so no screen or anything, just printing directly to dot-matrix?
 
PDP-8, jesus
I love you guys
 
@dmckee I think (hard to say?) I would have preferred mechanics, but, you know, Spring
 
@EmilioPisanty Yep.
 
@EmilioPisanty Yes!
 
so if you mucked up the input, you'd have no way to tell?
 
6:17 PM
@EmilioPisanty I certainly agree that the bar graph was perhaps not the best choice.
 
@EmilioPisanty IIRC the characters you entered were reflected to the teletype.
 
@JohnRennie so it printed them out as you typed?
 
Hit space a couple of time and peer past the print head.
 
well, I guess that's something
 
Yes, just like a typewriter
 
6:18 PM
I do remember dot-matrix green-bar holes-in-the-side paper, though
used to draw on discarded printouts when I was a kid
I actually found several of those drawings when clearing out old stuff a few months back
 
@dmckee I was told some kids were caught cheating this year because they turned in lab reports with questions exclusive to last year's lab answered...
 
@GPhys Yeah. I don't go hunting for cheaters, but they pop up sometimes because of stuff like this.
 
@GPhys How's that cheating?
(read: I don't understand what you said)
 
@EmilioPisanty this is the last of the pinfeed paper I have left over from the 90s:
 
user218912
@BernardMeurer basically they were dumb and bad at cheating
 
6:22 PM
I bet @dmckee has an underground dungeon in his house where he keeps everyone he ever caught cheating
 
@obe But what did they do? That's given since they were caught
 
It's surprising useful stuff.
 
@JohnRennie how so?
 
@JohnRennie That's one retro mouse
 
6:23 PM
@BernardMeurer The implication is they apparently copied lab reports from the previous year
 
@BernardMeurer yes, an original MS optic mouse. But it still works.
 
On a similar track, though, I recently heard this from a PI here. Back in the late 80s / early 90s TeX was already a thing, but postscript displays were not. So he had a secretary to type papers up, except that instead of a typewriter she would TeX it up on a computer, and to see the output she needed to use a postscript printer.
 
user218912
@BernardMeurer from my understanding they copied answers from an older lab onto a new lab, but the questions weren't exactly identical and they didn't take that into consideration when copying.
 
Maybe @JohnRennie saw those days too?
 
@obe Stupidity
@GPhys Good thing they got caught
@EmilioPisanty PI?
 
6:25 PM
@BernardMeurer principal investigator
 
@EmilioPisanty I remember using TeX before there were postscript printers. We had to print out on a dot matrix printer. But it was desperately slow, and not great quality.
 
@EmilioPisanty When I hear the word postscript all I can think is that good thing we have PDF
 
@JohnRennie wait, what?
 
PDF is one of the strongest proofs that God exists
 
Most of used an in-house system called GCAL instead. That printed to a daisywheel.
 
6:25 PM
what good is postscript and tex on a dot matrix printer?
 
@dmckee the instructor said he gave them a 0 on the lab and a very stern talking to, more or less
 
@EmilioPisanty The TeX processor would convert your document to a bitmap and print it ona dot matrix printer.
 
which is what he "normally" does for an intro physics class like that
 
@JohnRennie but, but...
 
(with the understanding that next time they will fail the class)
 
6:27 PM
how does that help with math?
 
user218912
I have such bad coding habits, my latex documents code is so bad but it looks good on the pdf.
 
@EmilioPisanty That's all the Postscript interpreter does of course ...
 
user218912
it's full of errors but still works.
 
you can barely see normal text on dot-matrix
 
It was a posh dot matrix printer not like the Epsom 18 pin printers we all remember with such loathing.
 
6:28 PM
@obe Until it doesn't
 
@JohnRennie oh, ok. sample output, maybe?
 
I think it was around 200 dpi.
 
@EmilioPisanty There were different grades of dot-matrix. The consumer grades were pretty bad but if you spent a little more money they sucked less.
 
@JohnRennie 18 pins? A potato can print better than that
(trust me, I'd know)
 
@BernardMeurer :-) you mean like at play school?
 
6:29 PM
@dmckee ok, that makes sense. I guess the ones we had at home weren't of the high-class grade.
 
You cut the pixels into the potato then rub it in paint and press it onto the paper!
 
this was representative as I recall
 
@JohnRennie Exactly!
 
user218912
@BernardMeurer i don't get some of the errors tbh, when i do \chapter{} it says undefined control sequence or something
 
I'm glad I started using latex in high school
 
6:31 PM
@obe Use Atom as an editor for LaTeX with linter-chktex + the latex package
 
I was dedicated to writing every document I ever wrote in latex
 
I helps you get rid of all errors
That's how I do it at least
 
this maybe
 
@EmilioPisanty Y'all had to read that?
 
doing integrals and subscripts with that? yeah, right
 
user218912
6:32 PM
@Bernard I use texstudio :p
 
@BernardMeurer oh, no
 
@obe Heard good things
 
now I can annoy my classmates by suggesting they use \colon instead of : to define their functions
 
@EmilioPisanty I was about to say it would be insane lol
 
my parents had one of those, mostly for normal text, I just used it to draw on at age ~4
 
6:32 PM
@GPhys Why only now?
 
@EmilioPisanty I'm really tempted to get an old dot matrix and try it, just to see what happens.
 
@BernardMeurer now as opposed to before I knew latex
 
@GPhys also, careful, because spacing-wise they're nowhere near equivalent
 
in mid high school
@EmilioPisanty that's the point; suggesting people use the one with the correct spacing for the situation (when I see they used the wrong one)
 
@JohnRennie if you can print some math that'd be awesome
 
6:34 PM
@Americans why are AZ, NH, and MI still not showing as decided states on the vote maps yet?
and Alaska too
@GPhys Ah, lol
 
@GPhys frankly, I don't think there's a "correct" spacing choice there. Either will look ugly to some people and ok to others.
@JohnRennie maybe the monstrosities from this one
 
@EmilioPisanty by "correct" I mean the situations they are designed for. I'm sure there are people that disagree about almost everything in typography
but here it's fairly clear cut
\colon is the punctuation and : is the relation (in math mode)
 
@GPhys all I'm saying is - be prepared to be told by others that it's not clear-cut. When you're doing $f:A\to B$ it's not clear at all whether it's punctuation or a relation.
 
if you're not using one of these situations, latex.se I'd guess would suggest you define a custom macro
@EmilioPisanty (that's the stereotypical punctuation example)
 
@GPhys ok, sorry, I'm out, latex is simply not that interesting today
 
6:39 PM
(relevant tex.se question: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/37789/… )
egreg is more aggressive in calling : flat-out wrong there, but I'd just say it's nonstandard heh
 
@GPhys I would say that egreg is confusing "what egreg doesn't like" with "wrong", but that's the last I'm saying.
 
@EmilioPisanty (forgive me for responding) I definitely concede to your general point that there's variation in preference and no objectively correct usage, but I simply mean to say there's often standard choices as suggested by how they were designed or in common use today
 
7:06 PM
@GPhys as I said, I disagree. There's plenty of "standard choices" which simply come from the tex old guard's aesthetic and nothing more. In this specific case, it doesn't even match current usage - check your textbooks and you'll see that \colon has a much tighter left-hand spacing than most common texts. But as is usually the case once a tex purist gets going there's no arguing with them, so feel free to berate your peers with your canonical opinions on matters of taste.
 
7:48 PM
I wrote a Python program to prove to my friend that his idea of modifying a role-playing game rule is stupid. Procrastination is a wonderful thing.
 
@ACuriousMind Next thing you know you'll be replacing your friends by potatoes
It happens faster than you might imagine
 
@ACuriousMind suppose I have an oscillator with a symmetric potential.
Is it obvious/true that the oscillation's frequency spectrum has only odd multiples of some base frequency?
 
Let's try it: The general formula for the period of a 1D motion is $T(E) = \sqrt{2m}\int_{x_1}^{x_2} \frac{\mathrm{d}x}{\sqrt{E - V(x)}}$, where $x_1,x_2$ are the turning points and $E$ is the total energy of the system.
 
@JohnRennie Are you still around?
Can I get one of these? :P
 
For a symmetric potential, $x_1 = -x_2$ and $E = V(x_2) = V(-x_1)$.
Wait, how do you expect "multiples" of a base frequency at all, @DanielSank? The period of oscillation is either constant or a continuous function of the energy.
Maybe you need to elaborate on the setup
 
8:28 PM
@DanielSank yeah, it's not quite clear what you mean there
Say you have a softened Coulomb potential in 1D QM and you're looking at the oscillations of the expected position given an arbitrary bound initial state, then the frequency spectrum of the oscillations will include all frequency differences of the well.
On the other hand, if you have a reflection-symmetric system responding to a sinusoidal driving with period $T=2\pi/\omega$ and you neglect transients, then yes. If you delay the forcing by $T/2$ and you reflect the system and the driving about the plane of symmetry, then you're left with exactly the same system and exactly the same driving.
Since you're neglecting transients, this means that the response needs to be the same. That rules out even harmonics, which would be flipped by the procedure.
To see the idea formalized and in action, see e.g. doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevLett.80.3743, and other papers by those authors in the refereces of doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevA.65.063402
 
8:45 PM
When two waves fully constructively interfere, is it not the case that the amplitude of the wave doubles (assuming the waves are identical in all regards)?
oh that wasn't my problem, nvm I figured it out.
 
@ACuriousMind @EmilioPisanty ok here's what I really want to know...
I heard some vague statement that for a given oscillating system with coordinate $A(t)$ and frequency spectrum $\tilde{A}(\omega)$, there is some kind of correspondence $\tilde{A}(\omega) \rightarrow \langle \psi | \hat{A} | \phi \rangle$ if $E_\psi - E_\phi = \hbar \omega$.
I want to understand that so I can try to understand if there's some classical intuition behind selection rules.
 
9:01 PM
Note that a periodic classical system has a discrete frequency spectrum.
 
@DanielSank yeah, that doesn't make much sense to me
 
@EmilioPisanty Apparently it's in Lifschitz and Landau.
Also, it's right for the harmonic oscillator.
 
@DanielSank any idea where therein?
 
@DanielSank Oh, you're talking about the Fourier spectrum with "frequency", not about the actual frequency of the system!
 
@ACuriousMind Wat?
@EmilioPisanty Ch 48, supposedly, but I don't have the book.
 
9:07 PM
@DanielSank this would be on non-relativistic QM?
 
internet is your friend.
 
@DanielSank I thought that with the "frequency" of the oscillator you meant $\frac{2\pi}{T}$, where $T$ is its period.
 
@Danu are you advocating for the commission of a crime?
 
^ Yes
 
Me? What?
 
9:08 PM
But your usage of "frequency spectrum" implies that you are not talking about about the frequency/period of the motion itself, but about the frequencies that occur in the Fourier transform of the motion.
 
@ACuriousMind Well, yes. That's the first frequency component. In general, the Fourier transform of $A(t)$ has a component at $2\pi n / T$ for all integers $n$.
@ACuriousMind Yes, but those are related.
 
@DanielSank but what is $T$ here?
 
@EmilioPisanty The period.
 
@DanielSank of the system? of some external driving?
 
@EmilioPisanty Free oscillations.
Obviously, for most systems, the period is energy dependent, which is part of why I'm puzzled.
Maybe this correspondence works when we're in the midst of a bunch of energy levels within which the period is reasonably constant?
 
9:10 PM
So this is just a classical system with some closed loop in phase space
 
Anyway, if you're talking about the Fourier spectrum, then the initial claim you asked about follows from the solution of the motion being purely odd in the time domain (unless you have symmetry breaking, the motion in an even potential will be odd if normalised to $x(t = 0) = 0$) and odd functions have odd Fourier transforms.
 
↑ that
 
@ACuriousMind Indeed.
 
same reasoning as I gave above applies
 
Ok, so we've established that even potentials lead to a motion whose Fourier series has only odd terms.
 
9:14 PM
@DanielSank LL do say something like this.
 
And LL seem to say that there's a relation between Fourier series components and matrix elements.
 
So if I'm reading it correctly, the precise claim in LL is this. Say you have a 1D classical system, and you quantize its classical orbits via $\frac{1}{2\pi\hbar}\oint p \mathrm dx= n+\frac12$. Then for large $n$ the energy spacing $\Delta E$ betwee two consecutive levels is $\Delta E = 2\pi \hbar /T$, where $T=T_n\approx T_{n+1}$ is the period of the motion on the levels in question, which is assumed not to change much.
 
Ok, that doesn't touch on matrix elements though.
 
they go on to treat those
 
9:20 PM
gimme a minute
 
::gives two minutes::
 
that's mighty generous
OK, for those matrix elements
suppose that instead of the classical system you do the corresponding quantum system
and you put it in some state $\Psi = \sum_n a_n \Psi_n$
suppose further that you have some operator $\hat f$ of interest
then its expectation value is $f = \sum_{m,n} a_m^* a_n f_{mn}e^{i\omega_{nm}t}$, where $f_{mn} = ⟨\Psi_m|\hat f|\Psi_n⟩$
they then shift the summation to
$f = \sum_{n,s} a_{m+s}^* a_n f_{n+s,n}e^{i\omega_{n+s,n}t}$
and here's the kicker
they set $\omega_{n+s,n} = s\omega$
 
What's $\omega$?
 
that seems pretty egregiously unjustified in the general case
same $\omega=2\pi/T$ as above
 
Oh I see.
 
9:26 PM
:33417670
 
They're assuming the level spacing is constant.
 
exactly
That's justified, but only if your state is supported over a tight enough energy band at high enough energy
 
Yeah.
Sure.
 
They also claim that it's a good approximation to set $f_{n+s,n}\to f_s$, where $n$ is taken at some representative point in the band. They claim this is a good approximation because in this regime $f_{m,n}$ varies much more strongly with $(n+m)/2$ than it does with $m-n$.
That seems reasonable to me under the given assumptions.
Under those conditions, the expectation value reduces to $f=\sum_s f_s e^{i\omega s t}$
that looks like the Fourier transform of some periodic function
 
@EmilioPisanty Aha.
 
9:30 PM
L&L then argue that:
 
@BernardMeurer, okay, I'm home from school and I'll be around for a while.
 
@heather Heya
So, where did we stop yesterday?
 
> Since $f$ must, in the limit, coincide with the classical quantity $f(t)$, we arrive at the result that the matrix elements $f_{mn}$ in the limit become the components $f_{m-n}$ in the expansion of the classical function $f(t)$ as a Fourier series.
 
@EmilioPisanty Sign in exponential backwards?
 
That seems reasonable to me in as much it is an analysis of what happens to the quantum description in the classical WKB limit of $n\to\infty$, $\Delta n \ll n$.
 
9:32 PM
@BernardMeurer, whether or not to type in sudo less /etc/apt/sources.list
 
@DanielSank All signs as in L&L. Note that the sum is over positive and negative $s$.
 
that's odd.
 
@heather Yes, also let's introduce a notation here: "run: to type in and execute a command in the terminal"
 
@DanielSank yeah, well, what can you do
 
okay, that makes sense
 
9:33 PM
Usually a state $|n\rangle$ has time dependence $\exp(-i E_n t / \hbar)$.
 
@heather Do you remember why we were looking at that file?
 
@BernardMeurer nooooooooo
Use:
$ blah blah
 
because we were discussing apt and packages @BernardMeurer
 
@DanielSank Hm? What if I just wanted to say, run python
I don't want to type in $ python all the time
 
@DanielSank I don't see a general lesson in that passage, though.
 
9:35 PM
@heather What Dan mentioned is important, the notation he did would mean for you to run the command blah blah (which doesn't exist afaik, although you can try, lol)
 
@BernardMeurer $ indicates the command prompt.
Whatever.
 
@heather Yes, very well, do you recall what I told you the sources.list file is?
@DanielSank ?
 
@BernardMeurer, the list of all package websites?
 
@EmilioPisanty What does $f_s$ even mean?
 
@DanielSank some representative $⟨n+s|\hat f|n⟩$
 
9:37 PM
@heather Yes, notation, the "websites" (correct name, servers), that hold the packages are to be called "sources", "repositories" is also used, short "repo"
 
under the assumption that it won't change much as $n$ changes over the representative range
 
@EmilioPisanty ah
@EmilioPisanty What happened to the $a$'s?
 
@heather Thus, when adding a new server to that list you could say you added a new source. In Debian-based distributions only you may also (and it is common) call them a PPA
 
new server, new source, okay, what does PPA stand for?
 
PPA: Personal Package Archive
 
9:39 PM
@DanielSank You can weaken that a bit, though, by making it a weighed average of the $⟨n+s|\hat f|n⟩$, with weighing through the $a$'s.... I think?
@DanielSank summed out to $1$
but now that I look at it, it looks increasingly dodgy
they go from $f =\sum_{n,s} a_{n+s}^*a_n f_{n+s,n} e^{i\omega s t}$ to $$f=\sum_{n,s} a_n^* a_n f_s e^{i\omega s t} = \sum_n |a_n|^2 \sum_s f_s e^{i\omega s t} = \sum_s f_s e^{i\omega s t}$$
 
okay
 
@heather Are you looking at the file on less?
 
paragraph in the middle reads
> The matrix elements $f_{mn}$ calculated by means of the quasi-classical wave functions decrease rapidly in magnitude as the difference $m-n$ increases, though at the same time they vary only slowly with $n$ itself ($m-n$ being fixed). Hence we can write approximately...
so.... essentially they're saying it's OK to swap out $a_{n+s}^*$ for $a_n^*$?
It looks extremely dodgy now that I look at it.
 
@EmilioPisanty Out of curiosity, what's the $a^{*}$ notation?
 
@BernardMeurer complex conjugate
 
9:45 PM
@EmilioPisanty Yeah, it's dodgy but it's not supposed to be exact.
 
@EmilioPisanty Got it, thanks
 
@DanielSank yeah, but the terms in $a_{m}^*a_n$ are where all the fun is, right?
at least from a modern perspective
If nothing else, that term gives you the phase of the Fourier component in as much as it depends on $\Psi$
It's the coherence between the $a_n|\Psi_n⟩$ component and the $a_m|\Psi_m⟩$ component
It may well be reasonable to demand that the phase be flat over that $\Delta n$ band in order to get the correct classical limit
 
"but the terms in $a_{m}^*a_n$ are where all the fun is" Yep, I'm in a physics chatroom :P
 
@EmilioPisanty Interesting.
 
@BernardMeurer, no, because it needs sudo, and I thought you were debating over whether or not entering the command was a good idea. I can enter it though if you want
 
9:48 PM
but then again, how does the formalism know how to compare the phase on $|\Psi_n⟩$ with the phase on $|\Psi_m⟩$?
 
@heather Yes, please run sudo less /etc/apt/sources.list
 
do you need a consistent phase definition to be able to do the maverick reduction of $f_{mn}$ to $f_s$?
If that is what's going on, it is severely under-represented in the text.
 
@BernardMeurer, okay, I'm looking at it
 
@heather Note, less is just a text viewer, no dangers of screwing up the file
So we can run it with sudo without a lot of fear
 
right, I noticed it was different from the normal console (and that's good to know)
 
9:51 PM
@BernardMeurer so why run it with sudo?
 
@EmilioPisanty It's owned by root.
@EmilioPisanty Yeah, a common problem with physics books.
 
@heather Interesting thing. To cancel a command in the terminal, you can do ctrl-c. So in order to copy something from the terminal (which you must select with your mouse afaik), you must do ctrl-shift-c
 
@BernardMeurer, huh, that's interesting. Good to know!
 
@DanielSank yeah, but here I think they're missing some pretty important stuff
as in, physically non-trivial
 
@EmilioPisanty Agreed!
 
9:53 PM
@heather Can you do stat -c "%a %n" /etc/apt/sources.list for me, and then copy and paste the result here for us?
 
Ultimately, though, they could well be defining $$f_s = \sum_n a_{n+s}^* a_n f_{n+s,n}$$
and then claiming that that reduces to a single representative $f_{n+s,n}$
 
@EmilioPisanty Which is kinda like saying they all have the same phase.
 
@heather I gotta attend to some matter now, shouldn't take long. @DanielSank After she runs that command, teach her:
1. About not running commands she doesn't understand. It's like talking to strangers
2. UNIX permissions, that `stat` should yield the perms of the sources file
be bakc later
 
Or, I should say, the result is the same.
@heather what is the actual goal here?
I know Bernardo is showing you the ropes of Linux and bash, but what are you actually trying to do?
 
@DanielSank, originally it was using Python, but now I think it is just learning how to use Linux.
 

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