English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

6:00 AM

Well, the question is moot now.

Mahnax

Hi there!

I wonder if Kosmonaut will come back, or if he's gone forever.

Cerberus

I don't know. It has been six months.

He may have closed it off in his mind.

Mahnax

It's possible.

I arrived after he left, so I don't know what he was like.

Cerberus

Yeah, he has been praised a little bit too much.

But he always had the most excellent, nuanced comments about linguistic issues. And one could have endless discussions with him about language and other things in chat.

Mahnax

With his leaving, it must have placed pressure on the other mods to deal with flags.

Cerberus

6:04 AM

Absolutely.

Not to mention that the other mods were much less motivated.

If Reg hadn't had the Soviet work ethic...

Mahnax

I think that Jeff said that Reg has been handling 85% of the flags here.

Cerberus

Yes.

Mahnax

In Soviet Russia, yard roto-tills you!

Cerberus

Haha, what?

Roto-tills?

As in tilling a field?

Mahnax

It's a machine that uses those clawlike things to till soil.

Cerberus

6:07 AM

Ahh...

I see.

That would be an interesting experience.

Mahnax

I found out that my Computing Science/Physics teacher is a Latin aficionado.

@Cerberus Haha, "interesting".

Cerberus

@Mahnax Yay!

Very good.

Do you take Latin?

Mahnax

To be, or not to be; that is the question. Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or to take arms against a sea of troubles, and by opposing, end them. To die, to sleep....

Cerberus

If not, perhaps he could be persuaded to have a biweekly honours class in Latin or something?

Mahnax

@Cerberus Nay, 'tisn't an option at my school.

Cerberus

6:12 AM

@Mahnax Very good!

@Mahnax 'tis sad.

Mahnax

@Cerberus Possibly! I'm not sure how good he is with it, but from the questions I asked, he seemed to know more than I.

@Cerberus Aye, 'tis.

Cerberus

And I say he already taught you to use the perpendicular pronoun!

Be careful lest Nohat cut off thy head.

Mahnax

Teehee. I know that it's wrong.

Cerberus

Wrong?

It is correct!

Mahnax

Oh, what?

Okay, I'm thinking of that other thing.

Cerberus

6:14 AM

Which?

Mahnax

"That book belongs to John and I" isn't correct, methinks.

It should be that book belongs to John and me because one would say that book belongs to me.

Cerberus

True.

Mahnax

Yep, that's the thing I was thinking of.

Cerberus

But "he seemed to know more than I" is correct, because you can say "than I know".

Mahnax

You saying that Nohat would cut off my head threw me off.

But he is here, for the first time that I've seen.

Cerberus

6:17 AM

Yup he's here.

Mahnax

I think I will change my username soon.

Cerberus

Did you know that he designed the Wikipedia logo?

Mahnax

I do!

Cerberus

@Mahnax Why?

Oh, good.

Mahnax

@Cerberus A little change is always nice. After a month I shall revert it.

I'm thinking L'oie d'eau.

"The Water Goose".

Or, "The Goose of Water".

Or maybe just "L'Autruche".

Cerberus

6:20 AM

Hmm...but it is so confusing.

Much easier for everyone if we all stick to our names and avatars.

Mahnax

@Cerberus Yeah, especially on a site about English.

@Cerberus Valid point, noted.

Cerberus

OK.

Mahnax

Maybe it is meant to be Mahnax.

Cerberus

What does that mean anyway?

Mahnax

I have no idea.

Mahna mahna / 2 + x.

Cerberus

6:24 AM

And what is that?

And why did you choose it?

Mahnax

I don't know why I picked it.

But...

►

Get ready…

Cerberus

Aww.

Nice.

Mahnax

Yep.

Cerberus

But it's bed time.

Mahnax

I agree.

Good night!

Cerberus

6:29 AM

Good night, then!

poof

user19161

10:31 AM

@JonPurdy Wrong, that was a boring time.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

1:01 PM

1

Q: "has" vs "have" usage after enumerating two subjects, the first one in plural

I'm inclined towards the 2nd sentence, because 1) the first subject is plural and 2) there are two subjects. Sub-question: but what if the first subject would have been singular? Specifications and game design has already been completed for it. or Specifications and game design have al...

This is a dupe but I can't find the original right now.

So far I got only these, related but not the same:

3

Q: Singular or plural verb form where subject includes a "parenthetical" element

My question arises from this one, where OP asks whether he should use the singular or plural verb form after "the title, as well as the tone," As luck would have it, when I searched Google Books for exactly that text, I found... The title as well as the tone of this volume errs, perhaps, in ...

grammatical-number punctuation clauses

4

Q: Singular or plural following a list

Can anyone tell me if I should use inspire or inspires in this phrase? An extraordinary leader whose vision, values, integrity and boundless curiosity inspires all who follow in his footsteps.

grammatical-number list

Though I guess I can take the second one for the time being.

user19161

1:15 PM

Well, I have deleted my practice licence question which was not well received.

user19161

0

Q: "Pack the free weekend calls away" does this sentence make sense?

I am writing a homework for my marketing class and I need to translate an advert. The advert in my native language means something like "Remember to pack the free weekend calls in your suitcase" or "Don't forget to pack the free weekend calls in your suitcase", but written like this is too long. ...

meaning

user19161

Off topic.

user19161

-1

Q: Difference between "indefinite" and "indecisive"

What is the difference between indefinite and indecisive, and when do you use each one of them?

differences

user19161

General reference.

user19161

2

Q: Comparing "better" and "best"

Is the word better used in comparing two things, or do you use the word best? Example used in a conversation: A: Is there any way to get over the anxiety? B: Drink a shit ton of alcohol or caffeine. A: I like the first suggestion better/best. Are they both correct to say?

adjectives

user19161

1:20 PM

Duplicate.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy hey, you changed your name back

Robusto

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Yeah, and speaking of that, when are you going to change yours to "Mr. Semi-gloss and middle-aged"?

And I may change mine to Robustout soon as well.

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Yup. Boo!

Robusto

@JasperLoy Want to know what's boring? Justin Bieber is boring. Or worse.

user19161

@Robusto Or you can be Robocop!

Robusto

1:31 PM

@JasperLoy I already am on record stating that I do not wish to be a moderator.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto heheh yeah I've had this name for... 14 years now? But I'm still shiny, if not new.

Robusto

@MrShinyandNew安宇 One transfers one's shiny-and-newness to one's offspring. You can't compete with that.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto Well, yes, they are shiny-and-new too. But I am actually literally shiny. And people whose last name is "newman", or similar, don't have to change it to "oldman" as they age.

And when my son is old enough for people to call him "Mister" then he can be "Mr. Shiny & New" too

or "Mr. Shiny & New Too"

Robusto

Gary Oldman

Gary Leonard Oldman (born 21 March 1958) is an English actor, filmmaker and musician. Oldman performed in theatre productions from 1979 to 1986, making his film debut in 1982. The de facto leader of the 1980s Brit Pack of film actors, His Hollywood breakthrough came with his portrayals of Lee Harvey Oswald in JFK (1991) and the title character of Dracula (1992). Oldman subsequently became well-known to international audiences as the antagonist of films such as True Romance (1993), Léon (1994), The Fifth Element (1997), Air Force One (1997) and The Contender (2000). Meanwhile, he portrayed...

This used to be Paul Newman.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto I knew you were going to try that.

Robusto

1:44 PM

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Not "Mr. Shiny & New 2" or "Mr. Shiny and New II"?

JSBᾶngs

g'morning everybody

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto Those are also valid.

Robusto

@JSBᾶngs ohayou

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JSBᾶngs morning

JSBᾶngs

@MrShinyandNew "MrSonOfMrShinyAndNew"

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1:45 PM

"Mr. Shiny & New Jr"

Robusto

Gary Oldman before he gained weight.

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 You may change to Mr New and Shiny.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy Nah, "Shiny and New" sounds more idiomatic to me

user19161

Shiny + New = New + Shiny. Addition is commutative.

Robusto

@MrShinyandNew安宇 You say that now. Where were you before I posted?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1:48 PM

@Robusto Well, I didn't want to spoil your joke. But I was thinking of paul newman and gary oldman when I wrote my sentence.

Robusto

@JasperLoy Those are strings. "Shiny + New" != "New + Shiny"

function proveJasperLoyWrong() {
  return ("Shiny + New" == "New + Shiny");
}

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Anyway I just noticed that on this website I spelled out the word "and" but in other places I use an ampersand. I prefer the ampersand variant most of the time but for some reason the internet seems to really hate ampersands.

Robusto

Paste that into your Javascript console and see what you get.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 HTML doesn't allow them unless rendered as entities.

Mr. Shiny & New

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy Language is not commutative. Some pairs of words in English are ordered.

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Yes, I know. Such as houseboat and boathouse.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1:52 PM

@Robusto Sure, I know that. but that isn't my problem. That's the website developer's problem. Yet, many websites can't seem to cope with an ampersand in a username.

@JasperLoy No, more like "apples and oranges" not "*oranges and apples"

Robusto

@MrShinyandNew安宇 True.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Frankly I'm not sure why on this site I didn't put in the &. But I loathe changing my username, so I'll stick with "and"

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

2:07 PM

Some pics of an awesome LEGO town in the old west

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

2:20 PM

@Cerberus amultiverse.com/2012/02/07/slippery-slope

Cerberus

Hi.

Haha, yes, change is bad! Stagnation is good!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I just like this line:

"What two or more consenting eukaryotes want to do in the privacy of their own home is none of my business"

It's the "or more" part that makes it funny.

Also: "Consenting Eukaryotes" would be a good name for a band.

On another note: according to US copyright law, you could go to jail for five years for pirating a Michael Jackson song, or one year longer than the doctor who killed him.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Told you so!!

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Haha, yes, ridiculous.

But ACTA must be stopped in Europe.

Or will all P2P file-sharing just happen encrypted?

Is that practical?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus it's been done. The main downside is that it's SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW

There was a tool that was popular at a time, called "freenet", where it was impossible to know which nodes were searching for, or sharing, which content. But in order to achieve that, direct connections between source and destination had to be obscured by travelling through intermediaries. Thus, if one intermediary had a slow link, it slowed down everything.

Cerberus

Oh, yes, Freenet.

But is there no faster system, then?

I suppose Freenet is rather meant for web browsing.

And is one supposed to download torrents through TOR?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

2:39 PM

No, Freenet was meant for file sharing, but with extreme privacy paranoia.

Mahnax

@Cerb You know that Eagle Mode thing that you were talking about yesterday?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Consider the TOR project now, which is, I think, a more generic implementation; it can be used to hide all kinds of traffic.

Cerberus

I thought Freenet was meant to be used in China and similar countries.

@Mahnax I happen to remember!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus oh right you know of TOR. yeah I don't know if you can download torrents through TOR. that would defeat the purpose of torrent, I think.

Mahnax

@Cerberus Good! One of the reviewers was using a Mac, but I don't see a download option for Mac.

Cerberus

2:41 PM

How so?

@Mahnax Aww...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus might be a different freenet? Freenet came around as napster was being shut down. However its slowness made it unpopular, and people flocked to the gnutella clones.

Cerberus

I really have no idea. I've just watched the video.

Mahnax

Oh, okay.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus torrent works by distributing the sharing among peers. tor works by obscuring the connections between end-points.

Cerberus

Yes, so...

Vitaly

2:43 PM

hey @Cerberus, guess the country & city & time: tema.ru/jjj/ussr/uthoff/10.jpg

@Cerberus, also this: (same place same time) tema.ru/jjj/ussr/uthoff/14.jpg

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus So if you try to mix something that encourages direct connections with something that prevents direct connections, what do you get?

Cerberus

@Vitaly Hmm looks nice! I really can't say, except that it must be Europe. Those flags don't look familiar; I see trolleybuses; otherwise I don't see any specific hints. It's definitely not Amsterdam.

As to the date, I'd say ca. 1970?

Vitaly

St. Petersburg, the USSR, 1965

Cerberus

Oh, nice!

Is that Nevski Prospekt?

Vitaly

i couldn't tell

Cerberus

2:50 PM

The .ru had me suspect Russia.

But I couldn't honestly tell from the picture.

Hmm I've been to Petersburg but I don't recognize it either.

One of the most beautiful cities in Europe.

It is very harmonious.

The city centre.

But I have to go, palaeography.

Later!

Robusto

@MrShinyandNew安宇 More proof that in America a corporation is not only a person, but a person with special privileges. What are impoverishment and loss of freedom for a human being compared with a trivial (or imagined) loss of revenue for a corporation?

Also, when was the last time a corporation went to jail for stealing your money?

Cerberus

@Robusto Nothing, I say!

Vitaly

CU.

Cerberus

We're in an age where capitalism has not been managed in such a way as to benefit society the most.

Bye!

Robusto

@Cerberus When was it ever?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

2:58 PM

@Robusto I don't think copyright law is structured in a way that favours corporations per se. It just favours people/businesses with money for lawyers, and lobbying, and renting DoJ goons.

Robusto

We have the best politicians money can buy.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

i.e. an individual, possessing enough personal wealth, could cause as much trouble as Disney does. Granted: most individuals with that kind of wealth structure their affairs in corporations for various purposes.

@Robusto And in Canada, we have the best copyright laws that American corporations could buy through their puppet state's foreign policy.

Matt Эллен

5:51 PM

@Cerberus I'm at 4hrs left, though I expect that to lengthen. I read you've reached nirvana already!

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Yes!

Have you added a university address yet?

It says ".edu" but it doesn't' have to be.

Matt Эллен

i don't have one

since I no longer attend

Cerberus

You don't have one that is still forwarded to your regular e-mail?

Matt Эллен

no, they cut it off years ago

Cerberus

Oh, too bad.

Oh, well.

Matt Эллен

5:56 PM

do you get more free space if you're at uni?

Cerberus

Yes, referral space is doubled.

Matt Эллен

0_0

Cerberus

That's why I have 23.8 GB now.

Matt Эллен

students! scrounging off the state and stealing my free space

Cerberus

Hehe.

Matt Эллен

5:57 PM

/ignorat_peasant_rant

Cerberus

I presume rich professors get it too.

Matt Эллен

:D

Cerberus

But you can get to 15.8 GB without it.

Matt Эллен

with referals?

Cerberus

Yes.

Matt Эллен

5:58 PM

I see

Cerberus

And some things like linking it to Twitter and following the tour.

You can always refer yourself when you need it quick...

VM/Linux Live.

Matt Эллен

you are running it?

which distro?

Cerberus

You create a VM, boot from the Ubuntu Live "CD", so you don't even need to make a virtual HD.

Matt Эллен

oh, to install dropbox?

Cerberus

Yes.

Matt Эллен

6:01 PM

or why do you need the VM?

Cerberus

It's all done in memory.

Matt Эллен

I see!

Cerberus

You need the VM because you can only follow a reference from another computer. If your mother should decide to install Dropbox on your computer (but after uninstalling your DB first), you don't get the bonus.

Matt Эллен

so many tricks to get free space. you're like a free space wizard

Cerberus

Hehe.

Well, it was the obvious thing to try.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

6:03 PM

Don't you see, though, @Matt? By jumping through these 10,000 hoops, you can get something for free! Everyone should be doing it!

Cerberus

I'm only using 1.2 GB, though.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 You will be glad later that you did it.

Matt Эллен

I do see, thanks @MrS Free stuff is good when you need it :p

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I won't be doing it, and I doubt I'll regret it that much

Matt Эллен

oh, get well soon @Kit! And the rest of your family.

Cerberus

I remember when someone told me I really needed to get onto the waiting list for rent-controlled apartments when I was 18. It seemed useless, so far into the future. But the waiting is at least 10 years, so it was a really good idea. I forced my cousin to subscribe too.

Matt Эллен

6:05 PM

nice

I don't think we've got rent controlled flats in Oxford

Cerberus

No?

Hmm...

Matt Эллен

well, maybe for people on benefits

Cerberus

We have them all over the country.

Of course you need to be relatively poor when you apply for a house.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus See, that's not a bad idea. But committing what is essentially fraud because of a technical loophole in Dropbox's referral scheme in order to get a couple more GB of cloud storage doesn't seem like it's worth the trouble to me.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus I imagine I'm above the too poor line for the UK, but I'm not rich enough to get a mortgage

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

6:08 PM

How rich does one need to be to own property in the UK?

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Aww yeah, that sucks so much.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I have in fact recommended Dropbox to hundreds of people, though, so I am doing my best to help them.

Matt Эллен

@MrShinyandNew安宇 well, I guess I could get a flat that I couldn't fit into. Maybe own a shed. I'll find a mortgage calculator and see what one can get

Cerberus

I couldn't buy a parking space here.

They cost about 100,000.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus but every single referral that is a self-referral is fraud. Does it matter if you stood on your roof shouting out to all the people on the street "Hey you! You should use dropbox!" if none of them take your advice? But then you go and reward yourself with some extra GB, for effort?

Matt Эллен

well, a 1 bed flat in Oxford is £65,000

£145,000 is the cheapest two bed in the city

hmm, apparently I could get £104,000 mortgage. Not bad. I don't know what the terms would be though

if I was earning £30K I could get £120,000 mortgage

Cerberus

6:14 PM

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I doubt whether it falls under that legal definition.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I don't know if it would be legally fraud, but doesn't it strike you as (at minimum) breach of contract? The terms of the contract are "refer a person and we'll give you free space", and for simplicity they don't personally interview that person or require unique payment information, just a unique install, and you found a way to trick them. But shouldn't they be at least within their rights to remove your ill-gotten storage? or ban you from their service?

@MattЭллен Yeah I'd stay away from the maximum mortgage that the banks would offer. It's usually too much.

Cerberus

I'm sure they can do anything they want: it's a free service. There is no contract.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus There is always a contract.

Cerberus

In any case, I have even installed Dropbox on the computer of various friends, and at work.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 In your country, perhaps.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus Aye, there's the EULA that you agreed to when you installed the software

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

6:18 PM

@Cerberus What, there are no implied contracts, or unwritten contracts of any form in your country?

Cerberus

@MattЭллен No-one reads those or signs them.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Those are not called contracts. They have a different status.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus clicking "I agree" means you've signed it. I don't claim that it's enforceable though

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

And isn't "refer someone and we'll give you some reward" exactly a contract? I'm sure a lawyer would agree. There's consideration for both parties, there's an exchange, etc.

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Does it? Not to me. And I doubt whether a judge would think of it as such.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Have you studied any contract law?

Cerberus

6:21 PM

No, but my brother and parents are lawyers. I know something about it. In Anglo-Saxon countries, it works differently. That's why your contracts are always so formalized. Here, saying "we are not liable for x" in a contract is meaningless, for example. Disclaimers in general.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I mean, I don't claim to know the intricacies of Netherlands law. But in the US and Canada, for the most part, a contract does not need to be signed and witnessed and etc etc. It is, at its simplest, an agreement.

Cerberus

An agreement is not a contract.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus it is.

Cerberus

It may be binding, but it is not the same thing.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus whatever label you attach to it is irrelevant. The point is, the only difference lies in the formality of what, precisely, are the terms of the agreement.

For example: purchasing a product in cash at a retail store consists of a contract being executed.

There is no writing. There might not even be any talking. But it's still a contract.

Cerberus

6:24 PM

I think there is a difference, and "fraud" would seem to me to have a more specific meaning than doing something that a certain company implores you not to do, especially when it is in a text that no-one ever reads or signs.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Just because you didn't read the contract doesn't mean you aren't bound by it.

Cerberus

In any case, let's not get lost in technicalities. I would rather not do it, but I feel less guilty because I have always recommended Dropbox to people and will continue to do so, and have installed it on the computers of friends.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Well, as long as you can rationalize your guilt away somehow :)

Cerberus

I have posted it on my Facebook just yesterday.

I can, thank you very much.

The number of people who have installed Dropbox thanks to me may very well be greater than the maximum number of referrals.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus possibly. So when you convince a friend to buy a CD for a band, do you then go and download their songs, as a reward? :)

Personally, whenever I buy something from a store, I go to the storekeeper's house and steal something small, just to keep the universe in balance.

Anyway, @cerb, I'm just giving you a hard time. I believe you when you say you are a successful dropbox evangelist.

Cerberus

6:33 PM