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12:23 AM
@Deusovi That question got edited - doesn't seem to be a dupe any more.
@Randal'Thor Thanks, reopened!
By the way, I've noticed that you've been editing out from questions. If you want, you can bring it up on meta and we'll get a CM to burninate it. (I agree that it doesn't need to exist, BTW)
@Deusovi It doesn't need a CM; is already a synonym of , so you can just use the mod tool for merging tags.
But there are only two questions left to go anyway.
Oh right, we have a tag. Forgot about that.
1:19 AM
I'm sorry, but TheBitByte really needs to put more effort into their logic puzzles before posting them. They've posted three so far, and every one has been insufficiently specified or unsolvable in its initial state and had to undergo multiple revisions, even while answers were coming in, to become properly solvable.
@Randal'Thor Yes, agreed.
Btw @Deusovi, since someone suggested putting an actual PSE question on the Tour page rather than the unicorn-daisies stuff: could you have a look at the list of possibilities and see how many there are?
Five. And none of them are very good.
Q: Correct way to add 22 to 4 to get 82

Trevor PowellInspired by this other puzzle, tell me a correct way by which adding 22 to 4 will give 82. As in that other puzzle, these numbers are all expressed in base 10.

Q: (Troll Math Question) Divided by sweets

ministic2001I got "x" number of sweets. I can divide my sweets equally by 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 all the way to 101 friends such that I have no left overs. Find the least number of sweets I could possibly have at first? Note: This logic is a troll, so I thought it is fun. Wanna see how people answer. Anyways, the an...

Q: What 'T_RN' means?

AeJeyTake a look at these letters and tell me what it means. "T_RN" It's a bit brainteaser. So think out of the box to get the answer.

Q: What is the optimal first move in tic-tac-toe?

XynarizI have been told that it is possible to guarantee no worse than a tie in normal 3x3 tic-tac-toe, but that the first move is very important. What is that important first move?

Q: Longest word in English without repeated letter

JohnFxWhat is the longest word you can come up with that is a real English word that doesn't use any individual letter more than once?

Not surprising really. The best puzzles tend to have at least some formatting - quotes, spoilertags, etc. - in either the question or the answers.
I'm thinking we should despoiler a good question.
1:26 AM
And any kind of formatting disqualifies it from being in the Tour, unfortunately.
This is the one which used to be there, until someone edited a spoilertag into warspyking's answer.
Including images?
The answer to the fourth question I linked (tic-tac-toe) has an image, but it still seems eligible.
The question also has to be fairly short, as do at least two of its answers (preferably highly-voted ones).
@Deusovi Only because the two non-accepted answers don't have any formatting. If you put that one in the Tour, it'd be those low-voted answers that would show up.
Oh, my Puzznk puzzle has been solved, if anyone's interested. @Areeb @Lukas
1:43 AM
Do locked questions qualify? If so, it's clunky, but we could create a "dummy" question with answers specifically for the tour (and lock it so no one messes with it)...
There's probably a lower limit on votes for questions and answers on the tour, so it'd have to stay unlocked until it garners enough upvotes - and in that time, people might post spoilertagged answers or edit in quotes or whatever, which would then have to be edited out just as if we used an existing question.
@Randal'Thor that was seemingly quick
Hah I told you it was Mad Jason
@Areeb Do you like the way the solution came out, or are you disappointed?
(Please be honest - I won't be offended if you didn't like it :-) )
2:03 AM
@BenAaronson I don't know how to explain this without giving away part of the actual answer, but Deusovi's answer is incorrect. — TheBitByte 24 mins ago
Anyone know why my answer would be wrong?
@Deusovi Goodness knows. I've pretty much given up on his last question:
@randal'thor Okay. I'm confused. Could you edit my post to clarify that the 3rd door is the answer? Not give away the answer, just make it so that the answer turns out to be the 3rd door. Apparently I've been trying to do this myself and failing. — TheBitByte 20 mins ago
(Monty Hall problems are riddled with convincing fallacies though, so it's possible your answer is wrong even if it seems to be right!)
Wait, he's trying to make you make the puzzle for him?
That's... not how it works.
Also, he just changed his mind and said my answer is correct.
@Deusovi Well, I did my best. And hey, it gets me one step closer to the Illuminator badge :-P
2:19 AM
@Randal'Thor it had an interesting story to it, the solution was simpler than I thought it would be. It wasn't a bad puzzle
Ughhh, look at the comment thread here.
I know, it's just that if it's about getting the correct solution, then Herb Wolfe got it first. If it's about explaining the working leading to the solution, Herb Wolfe seems to have gotten it wrong. — TheBitByte 1 min ago
@Deusovi You're not being very helpdful :-P
@Randal'Thor What am I supposed to say? It's not my choice which answer gets accepted.
@Deusovi Well, not responding at all would probably be better than saying exactly the same thing over and over again.
@Randal'Thor Hey, it's not exactly the same thing! It's slightly different.
@Deusovi Well, personally, I find it interesting. In my opinion, if you're downvoting it because it's too easy, just answer it. If you enjoyed answering it, consider upvoting it instead. — TheBitByte 57 secs ago
2:26 AM
If you wanted to, you could advise on which answer to accept, having made it clear that it's up to them. But if you don't want to do that (since you're one of the answerers yourself and therefore biased), then why not just let them think aloud in comments and eventually come to a decision?
@Deusovi Heh, that does seem a bit contradictory.
@Randal'Thor Yeah, I didn't want to seem biased. I was trying to explain that it was their decision, but it seemed like they didn't understand that.
@Randal'Thor How so? You can answer a question and still think it's a poor question.
I typically try not to answer and close vote, but I don't see any issue with answering and downvoting.
Q: Is it unethical to answer and downvote the same question?

MinthosOne encourages better quality questions, the other helps a person with a problem. Both admirable goals. Right?

@Deusovi I meant, what he's saying seems contradictory. Downvote => answer => upvote?
Oh. Yeah, I honestly don't get it either.
Though, I personally tend to think one shouldn't both downvote and answer a question. If it's interesting enough to answer, it shouldn't be bad enough to downvote.
Anyway, bedtime for me. G'night :-)
2 hours later…
4:57 AM
@Randal'Thor I disagree, as long as the question's open. You might think it's confusingly worded, but at last understand and find an answer. Or perhaps you think it's ill-posed but you make plausible assumptions and then answer.
3 hours later…
7:30 AM
@MariaDeleva ישראל.
8:30 AM
Farther than I thought. @Mithrandir
So where are you?
8:55 AM
Like Krum? :P
Are you referring to Khan Krum? :)
As in 12 centuries ago?
Viktor Krum :P
Hahaha. Your question was ambiguous :)
2 hours later…
11:28 AM
@Randal'Thor Seems like you're about to get a generalist badge, if one tag gets +11 rep.
11:42 AM
Q: Very good but forgoten posts

lois6bI'm sad. Everyday I can see posts with very low quality or too easy. Others on hold for multple reasons ... and just a few amazing puzzles. I love seeing a good puzzle, which took a lot of work and effort to build. But as they are not easy, there are no answers, there are no views and eventuall...

12:40 PM
@AJ Nope. The top forty tags (not twenty) need to have >=200 questions for Generalist badges to start being awarded.
@Randal'Thor okk
1:22 PM
@Randal'Thor Screening room has graveyard silence.
Q: MathJax HNQ bug

whrrgarblThere is currently a question from the personal finance stack in HNQ, titled: Getting $10,000 and have $16,000 balance on two credit cards - How to allocate payments? However, this renders like: This appears to be a consequence of changing the MathJax delimiter, and odd to see since MathJax...

1:57 PM
Are puzzles tagged in multiple (two, actually) parts acceptable?
This implies of course that the first part won't be the end of the... story
@IAmInPLS You mean like one puzzle being a continuation of the next?
Of course: see the "SErial Killer" series, or my "Mysterious Email" series, or many others.
Hasn't that question been asked before?
in chat no less?
@Randal'Thor Alright
@dcfyj I thought so, but could not remember when
2:20 PM
@Randal'Thor Also, do these 2 parts would count for the fortnightly challenge, or will it be counted as a whole? Although I doubt I'll finish making this puzzle before the 19th...
@IAmInPLS I think the fortnightly challenge counts individual questions, so they'd both be counted separately if they're both posted within the fortnight.
how much story does a puzzle need to deserve the tag?
2:45 PM
@Sconibulus In my opinion pretty much everything :) "A puzzle that is dressed up as a story or a longer description of a situation. " If I define "longer" as "at least two words", a riddle that starts with "So my friend gave me this note with a riddle on it" could be tagged with .
that's almost exactly what I just made... just with a paragraph instead of a sentence
and... apparently I'm bad at StackExchange, sorry @rand et all who can see it
@Sconibulus Self-deletes are "actual deletes". But deleting a post doesn't hide it from 10k-ers ;-)
that's not an "actual delete", that's just setting a flag
I meant deleting from the db
I don't think that's even possible.
Maybe a CM could do it.
if I'd known that, I certainly would have just edited
now I get to just obviously suck at life to everyone with enough rep :)
2:59 PM
Well, it doesn't show up in the list - you only see it if you have the link or mod powers.
@Deusovi ^ this is how I noticed
I'm so dumb, I checked like 5 times to see if the puzzle matched my notes, or if I'd made any dumb transposition mistakes, but forgot to check if my notes matched reality until after it was posted
Hm, I guess the autorefresh doesn't check for deletes.
3:19 PM
@Sconibulus Is the extensive knowledge of computers required for your puzzle?? Or only the usual ascii or other stuff??
I don't think it's extensive, but it's definitely worthy of the tag
well, extensive (or the right wikipedia page) might be needed to fully solve it, but I think you can get far enough to find that page without too much trouble
3:39 PM
Why don't many and sweaty rhyme :(
Why don't many and zany rhyme? ;-)
Those do, at least to me they do. My question was more of a forlorn complaint
Unless you feel that many and sweaty do rhyme, in which case I'm happy
4:02 PM
many and sweaty may not rhyme, but 'many and sweaty' does rhyme with 'Lenny the Yeti'
Just goes to show how inconsistent the English language is haha
1 hour later…
5:20 PM
@Randal'Thor Quite easy to understand through tough thorough thought, though.
@RosieF OMG that's awesome.
Did you just make that up now?
@RosieF Easy to understand, sure. Still a pain to read.
@Rand I have also combined all these words in the past :) It is fun :)
I believe this question should be reopened. By analogy with this one, if nothing else.
5:28 PM
@Randal'Thor, already voted to reopen
Is that just a link to a countdown?
I don't see any images of a note or anything
I mean, there might be the seed of a decent question there, but as is, it's kinda crap, and I understand it being closed
the other one seems way more detailed, has embedded links to the youtube videos in question, and even in the original posting, explained the backstory rather thoroughly, as well as how prior steps had been solved
Yesterday that countdown had a red background with a dragon, now it's almost entirely black.
Yeah its changes, weird
If you look at the source, there's a ton of javascript on that page
it's counting down to ~5 hours from now
5:39 PM
to what? who knows
Maybe the image i saw yesterday - maybe it only appears at a certain time
There's an image in the background that keeps changing
looks like a cart, but no idea
now it's a sun thing, and now a bridge like thing
bird bones?
If you right click and inspect you can still see the images pretty clearly
it seems to stop on a goat head though
5:58 PM
Badselfeater is a very strange name... looks like an anagram of Federal Beast. Maybe, the website belongs to the FBI
@Randal'Thor No. I first came across that word sequence -- but without the final "though" -- in this article from the May 1993 Word Ways.
@RosieF You missed the closing parenthesis at the end of your link
I think what you meant to do was this
@dcfyj Thanks, dcfyj.
Seems I'm better versed in comment/chat markup than in question/answer markup >.<
TBB posted another puzzle...
7:03 PM
"What is the fifth letter of E?"
Nobody knows?
7:18 PM
A proof that bounties don't help solving puzzles: puzzling.stackexchange.com/questions/36494/…
Has there been no attention to that since you put it up?
Well, I don't remember the number of views and when I put it up, Phlarx posted his answer, but nothing since then.
8:00 PM
@Deusovi TBB?
@Areeb TheBitByte
@Peanut, are you sure you don't want the image??
Forget it
8:18 PM
Hey guys!
2 hours and no response to my puzzle haha.(https://puzzling.stackexchange.com/questions/42553/cipher-ciphe-ciph)
Time is not really a factor to determine whether a puzzle is good/bad or difficult/easy. Especially if it is under 24 hours. :) You will see. :)
Should I post a hint in the question?
It is too early for that. :)
@TheBitByte you may find this meta post interesting: meta.puzzling.stackexchange.com/questions/5005/…
8:30 PM
@MariaDeleva Thanks.
I won't add any hints for now, I'll just wait for attempts at an answer.
:) OK
I can't find a rule that matched Noon but not Nincompoop/Poop
@Sconibulus You mean can, not can't?
which makes me think that it's the 'unrefreshing' rule that's actually a thing
and by 'actually a thing' I mean refreshing words are probably very common, with unrefreshing ones being the outliers
For these particular ones, I can but it wouldn't fit the others, so it doesn't really matter. I was wondering whether the words contain something
8:34 PM
I have no idea how the word "refreshing" fits in the context of the question, actually.
Because hungriest and hungrier have only a couple of different letters at the end
yeah, hungriest can make tire/tires
and reforming only has om different, but can make gorm
Uhm, I think I got it
hungriest can make shit
and poop is obvious
8:36 PM
but what can reforming make?
so the others probably contain other nasty stuff
Okay, so refreshing words have nice meanings, and unrefreshing words don't?
that's the idea
seems very simple
8:37 PM
but deadly/deathly both have the 'unpleasant to touch' lye
Okay, but "hungriest" isn't a bad word, it's a superlative adjective.
Adjective: hungriest
  1. superlative form of hungry: most hungry
Me right now :P
@TheBitByte, what I meant is that from its letters one can anagram another word that means something nasty - s, h, i, t. While hungrier lack s and t.
@BeastlyGerbil I doubt this discussion will be good for you
8:39 PM
"Hungry" has a meaning of "poor", not just the usual meaning.
better not read :)
@TheBitByte not the meaning of the words themselves. The ones that can be anagrammed by them
I can't find any other cusswords in the words.
@MariaDeleva I don't see any words with an "unrefreshing" meaning
8:43 PM
@TheBitByte I already wrote the word twice - shit
@MariaDeleva Ohh okay
Someone would start flagging my posts soon lol
I do like that, except for deadly/deathly
and maybe to a lesser extent Barb from Barbie
Hungriest ---> shit | Reforming ---> grim/rife | undeniable ----> die | poop is obvious | Deathly ----> death?/hate
8:47 PM
reforming also contains germ
undeniable - bleed
not really a good pattern though
I wonder if Peanut really hates people named Thad
@Sconibulus What?
Or heads
"nincompoop" has an obvious anagram of "poop"

For "deathly", the anagram is "death"
oh, 'gore' is reforming
8:51 PM
@Sconibulus Yeah. But "gore" and plenty of other words too.
That's the issue.
could be shit, gore, bleed, poop, eat, poop for verbs involving bodily fluids
By the way, I asked Peanut "Is there something about superlatives?" and he/she replied "That would give the answer away!"
The superlative of "hungry" is "hungriest"
and for "death", it's "deadest"
for "noon" it is certainly not "undeniable"
The word "noon" itself seems to be a noun, not an adjective.
whoa, did a mod come by while I wasn't paying attention?
9:00 PM
@MariaDeleva A proof that bounties help solving puzzles.
@GentlePurpleRain or chat - you never know :D
ooh, that's good
I was just reading it :)
@GentlePurpleRain Can you bounty my puzzle (puzzling.stackexchange.com/questions/42553/cipher-ciphe-ciph) then haha?
@Sconibulus I deleted my own comment as I saw you already posted an answer :)
9:03 PM
It's probably wrong, but it's at least a legitimate guess
Well, it wouldn't surprise me if it is right. Although "eat" is a bit out of place with the rest, but who knows?
and any comments about why it's wrong, say because of a counterexample word give more information to the next guesser
@Sconibulus Peanut should add more examples. He said he'd add them gradually, but interactive puzzles seem to be frowned upon here.
I think Interactive is fine, it just can't be interactive with a person
like, we've seen several where clicking a picture brings up a different picture, etc.
9:06 PM
well, yes, but the puzzle then is self-contained
and I feel like building a javascript game or something that tells you parts of a riddle as you beat it would be great fun
you don't need to wait for anything
the key here is whether the puzzle is "whole" to begin with :)
Yeah, the puzzle needs to be posted in its entirety, for sure
@MariaDeleva Exactly. If someone stumbles upon this site months, years, or even decades into the future, the puzzles here should still be solvable.
9:27 PM
Good night all. :) It's after midnight here
Night! c:
And hopefully decades into the future, we would still be chatting here ;P
9:39 PM
@Randal'Thor: I think I've got the next step!
For Alconja's maze puzzle, that is.
9:51 PM
@Deusovi Yay, do tell!
Or are you going to post your own answer?
Just solved, uploading now!
A: Read. Learn. Live. Escape

DeusoviFinal answer Continuing where Rand left off, we

Hey @Emrakul!
@Deusovi Wow. That's ... quite something.
You seem disappointed.
10:05 PM
I want to say "nobody could possibly have guessed all that", but clearly somebody could!
The "skipping letters" was a guess at first, but REMAI seemed very plausible for the start so I kept going.
And the final message was pretty clear.
@Deusovi I'm a little disappointed that the way to get from each step to the next wasn't clearer (i.e. it was a really hard puzzle - there's nothing wrong with that, of course). But there's no doubt that it's always clear once you get each step that it's right, and that's the hallmark of a good multi-part puzzle, because it enables you to keep going and know you're on the right track.
So altogether it's awesome but also really hard :-) @Alconja
@Deusovi 'ello!
Congrats @Deusovi!
Thank you!
Not a fan of ciphers, personally.
10:17 PM
It's fun, though.
If you don't find it fun while solving it, you're welcome to ignore it entirely, as I'm not "forcing" anybody to solve it haha.
10:52 PM
Well done @Deusovi.
@Alconja Thank you, and kudos on the great puzzle!
@Randal'Thor Yeah, I wasn't 100% happy with this one, which is (partly) why I didn't finish it when I started working on it for the mazes fortnightly... I knew that middle step was significantly harder than the others, but couldn't see how I could improve it given the limited design space of a grid of letters...
Any ideas/suggestions?
11:06 PM
...maybe if it was "A ONE, B TWO, SKIP C, D FOUR" or something?
I think that would make it harder -- it seems to imply that C is treated differently from A,B,D which is just misleading.
@GarethMcCaughan Yeah, that's where I was going wrong already. I was thinking along the lines of replacing some of the letters by numbers, and that there was something special about A,B,D but not C.
@Deusovi I was writing up a meta post just now and then realised it'd be a duplicate of this one :-) Any further news on that? +13/-0 looks like a pretty strong consensus to me.
@Randal'Thor "There is something about special. Repeated twice. What am I?
Asked a CM about a week ago, they said they'd consider it. Might go ahead and ask again.
11:22 PM
@TheBitByte Wild guess: a dodo?
@Randal'Thor Think inside the box.
@TheBitByte Is it going to be a word of the form dodo though, with one part repeated twice?
@Randal'Thor Nope. Think deep inside the box.
Very deep.
Until you hit the bottom.
That is the key to good puzzles, in my opinion: They appear easy, but are not. They appear difficult, but are not. You brush them off as too simple, yet you cannot solve them. You ignore them as too hard, yet you would finish them if you tried.
@Randal'Thor something like "FOR A STEP ONE, B TWO, D FOUR" or "A ONE, B TWO, THEN D STEP FOUR" would probably be clearer, but likely too obvious...
@Alconja Not too obvious IMO. In fact, possibly even still too cryptic! "What do you mean, step? Step how? Start where? What are we looking for?"
OK, I probably would have worked it out in the end, but it's certainly not obvious (well, unless I'm just stupid).
11:35 PM
Well the start where bit is still given "FROM THE TOP"
Available evidence is not obviously favourable to the "Rand is just stupid" hypothesis.
But I agree it's not obvious... like I said, not 100% happy with it, but it's hard when you're trying to cram letters into a smallish grid with minimal gaps
I think it was perfectly fair, FWIW.
(Tough, but fair.)
Good to know (and the fact that Deusovi solved it without hints means it at least wasn't completely obtuse).
11:37 PM
I think at the end of the day, I'm just annoyed at the inconsistency of difficulty within the puzzle itself. First step is easy, second is very hard, third is easy, fourth is easy... would've like to smooth that curve out a little
Q: The Riddling Tree

gtwebbAmongst the trees one stands alone, Through the ages he's aged and grown, Here to tell all that see, Of their desperate, despairing plea. So look at all he's come to be, And heed the words of the riddle tree. The poem above is just fluff, all necessary info is in the images. What is the tree...

@Puzzling—BOUNTY! I find it interesting how there's a bot for bounty questions, but no bot for questions in general. Maybe there is one and I just don't see it.
Bountied questions are rarer than questions simpliciter.
@Alconja Well, nothing can be perfect - not even an Alconja puzzle :-)
Heh. I'm very happy with how my next one is turning out though...
It's presentation amuses me greatly
11:42 PM
@TheBitByte There's a meta bot and a bounty bot, but not an all-questions bot. Which, back in the year-and-a-half when this room was almost totally dead, made sense: so many questions being posted in here would have drowned out any occasional tidbit of actual chat. But if this level of chat activity is going to keep up, I'd be in favour of introducing an all-questions bot.
@Randal'Thor Well, pccg has one.
For one thing, it'd mean I could just sit in chat and see when new questions appear without having to keep the front page of the site open in another tab ;-)
@TheBitByte Yeah, so does SFF and many other sites.
@Randal'Thor Yeah. I'm just sad that my 3+ hours ago question has 80+ views, 0 votes, and no comments or answers.
@TheBitByte No offence, but maybe it's because people are wary of your questions by now?
Personally, after having attempted two of your logic puzzles and watched how a third went, I gave the new question a miss. In all three of those, you kept having to edit the question because it was unsolvable or insufficiently specified at first, and all the answerers had to scramble editing their answers to try to keep up.
@Randal'Thor Well, very strangely, you say "no offence" and proceed to be potentially offensive. Aside from this remark, I do not find that this is the case, in my opinion. I just think people do not find my question interesting, which in and of itself is an interesting thing, since I personally find the question interesting.
11:47 PM
Part of the reason I didn't attempt it was what Rand said. Many of your questions have seemed poorly thought-out.
Also, I don't like ciphers very much. :P
@Rand was the third one the one that (I assume) eventually just got deleted? (The one with the guards by the doors.)
@TheBitByte It's not very strange. That's exactly what the phrase "no offence" is for: to attempt to mitigate a potentially offensive statement in the hope that it won't actually cause offence :-)
@Randal'Thor Well, "no offence" has become a cliché nowadays, overused and misunderstood. I am not surprised you used it this way.
@GarethMcCaughan Oh, it got deleted. I didn't realise.
Hey, I lost 20 rep out of that! Or maybe I didn't, because of the repcap. Not entirely sure how deletions and repcap work together.
@TheBitByte, how else would you suggest someone convey the message "I am about to say something critical that could cause offence, but causing offence isn't my intention and I hope I don't"?
11:51 PM
@GarethMcCaughan I do not have a specific suggestion, all I'm saying is that the phrase has become an overused cliché.
Well, "overused" means used too much, and if it serves a useful function for which there isn't a superior alternative I don't really see how that's the case. (What might be true, and would be a different complaint, is that a lot of the time when it's used the person using it is hoping not actually to avoid giving offence but just to evade responsibility for doing so. FWIW I don't think Rand was doing that here.)
@Deusovi are you on right now?
I just put up a flag that I think should be taken care of quickly
@GarethMcCaughan There's a difference between there not being a superior alternative to a cliché, and the alternative indeed existing while some people choose to not utilize it.
11:56 PM
@Deusovi Thank you
No problem.
@TheBitByte of course there is, which is why I was asking whether you knew of a superior alternative.

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