English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

12:46 AM

Is anal (obsessed with unimportant details) offensive or impolite?

@Færd Borderline.

I see.

It's not as bad as asshole, but it isn't really something you say without risking offending the person so described, and possibly those of lily-white sensibilities.

So what's a better alternative?

obsessive?

Yep.

12:52 AM

Now that I have you, would you be so kind as to give up a couple minutes and make a comment on this?

What's the scenario? It might be ok. I mean, anal (short for anal-retentive) is something people absolutely do say.

"nose car" separates wrong.

Somehow you put the "s" on no not scar.

I imagined it'd be okay between friends, but wasn't sure how close it was to the borderline.

@tchrist Oh, good point!

It's a HIGH school versus high SCHOOL thing, like.

You ate the second syllable of WINter so it became wintrafternoons.

I assume you're deliberately doing pitch variation that's sounds a bit hm recitative? Not sure the word. Sounds a bit like you're sixty. :)

It's clearly a North American accent but not especially marked for region.

I don't know! I was afraid I was speaking in a monotone!

Well, the thing is that most North American accents have less phrasal pitch variation than in the UK. This is one of the tricks Hugh Laurie uses but he hates the sound of his own voice when he does that because it is so damned monotone.

It does sound like a native speaker though, almostly completely. :)

1:00 AM

It wasn't deliberate. If it sounds strange then I should do something about it.

It sounds like you’re portraying an older poet.

@tchrist Thank you very much.

Even in the second part?

What's between affliction and of the air?

sent us

Okay, I was wondering.

Let me check again knowing that.

Ok now I know.

The problem is that both vowels are too reduced.

Sent has become sint, like sin with a t.

1:02 AM

I see.

And the us got turned into a schwa. It's much too short, too.

For poetry reading, I suppose?

You can, and do, reduce him and her and them (as ’(e)m) in that position, but us for some reason you can't do that to. I don't know why.

Sint for sent may be a pin–pen merger trait. I don't have that.

Subtle! Good to know.

You sound ever so slightly more southern than me.

But that isn't saying much.

Because I'm from the north. The pin–pen merger is something in the south.

You have a bit less r in the coda than I do, contributing to the perception of a southern country gentleman.

So like in part.

All the r’s in younger and more vulnerable years sound a bit drawled to me.

Again, that's a southern trait.

1:07 AM

Interesting.

It's much better in that regard for that phrase than an Englishman trying to put on an American accent, but there's still something weird I'm having trouble pinning down.

I didn't know I sound that southern!

That's very subtle. It doesn't sound southern, really. Just wisps.

And you definitely sound east of the Mississippi, not counting maybe Minnesota.

brb 5m

I uploaded it with especially you in my mind, 'cause I knew I'd get something from you. Thanks again.

@Færd I've listened to it again. Everything I've said before is talking about when you start doing your 'reading voice'. I can't tell anything from the first sentence.

Other than you're too close to the mic and need a shield ;)

1:11 AM

@Mazura Oh right! Thank you.

It really boosted my confidence in speaking to hear others' opinions.

I sound truly horrible to myself.

Everyone sounds horrible to themselves. It's a rule.

It falls somewhere on the spectrum of not attractive to horrible.

My English to my ear is close to the horrible end.

But good to know that's not what others think.

1:36 AM

Your second syllable of ever is a little bit too short compared to how I would say it at that speed.

Privy is supposed to have the HIT vowel in the stressed syllable, not the MEET vowel.

4 hours later…

Sᴋᴜʟʟ ᴘᴇᴛʀᴏʟ

5:52 AM

RIP Mohammad Ali :'(

5 hours later…

Shafizadeh

10:36 AM

"dump" means "broke up" ?

1 hour later…

Lawrence

11:40 AM

@Shafizadeh Possibly, depending on context.

oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/dump

Can we close this dupe and lose the DV's please? I had this same prob once.

Lawrence

@Mazura Done.

Shafizadeh

11:59 AM

@Lawrence thx for the link

Lawrence

12:52 PM

@Shafizadeh :)

1 hour later…

2:09 PM

@tchrist Yes. I noticed that after recording it, but was too lazy to edit or rerecord. It unintentionally worked as sort of a trap (kinda like this), which couldn't snare you.

That the worst thing I've heard of in a long time: 'fake entries'. One more thing to subvert the decimation of knowledge and protect IP. Great.

SmokeDetector

2:37 PM

[ SmokeDetector ] Few unique characters in answer: What's the word for a word that suddenly becomes famous? by user178435 on english.stackexchange.com …

johnchae

3:03 PM

@Færd Okay, now you're reminding of the recording I wanted to make long time ago to cover some words I found difficult to pronounce properly. Maybe next week I think :) Btw, one of those words is "part"; in general, words consisting of the "R" sound, such as "apart", "partner"... I've been practicing but still can't pronounce it the way you did in your recording, I mean, you sounded so easy and all.. But with me, I always feel uncomfortable whenever I say those words (part, apart...)

2 hours later…

5:31 PM

@johnchae English r was a pain for me too. It still is; when lots of rs and ls come one after the other they still give me a hard time.

> Alright Carl and Laurel, really, quit rolling round the railroad already.

You may want to practice by trying to copy single words and short phrases containing r before trying long sentences. Listen to the model pronunciation and to yours over and over again and try to pronounce it the way the model does.

Language skills improve gradually.

5:44 PM

The English r is an approximant; the English l usually is not. Most people getting the r wrong are trying much too hard, approaching something which is no longer an approximant. Initially though not in the coda the r is [ɻʷ].

Approximant consonant

Approximants are speech sounds that involve the articulators approaching each other but not narrowly enough nor with enough articulatory precision to create turbulent airflow. Therefore, approximants fall between fricatives, which do produce a turbulent airstream, and vowels, which produce no turbulence. This class of sounds includes lateral approximants like [l] (as in less), non-lateral approximants like [ɹ] (as in rest), and semivowels like [j] and [w] (as in yes and west, respectively). Before Peter Ladefoged coined the term "approximant" in the 1960s, the term "frictionless continuant" referred...

The people getting it wrong are making it too noticeable a sound. It’s a slight curling of the tongue. The curling if done in the wrong place sounds bizarre.

Retroflex approximant

The retroflex approximant is a type of consonant used in some languages. The symbol in the International Phonetic Alphabet that represents this sound is ⟨ɻ⟩, and the equivalent X-SAMPA symbol is r\`. The IPA symbol is a turned lowercase letter r with a rightward hook protruding from the lower right of the letter. == Features == Features of the retroflex approximant: Its manner of articulation is approximant, which means it is produced by narrowing the vocal tract at the place of articulation, but not enough to produce a turbulent airstream. Its place of articulation is retroflex, which pr...

R-colored vowel

In phonetics, an r-colored or rhotic vowel (also called a retroflex vowel, vocalic r, or a rhotacized vowel) is a vowel that is modified in a way that results in a lowering in frequency of the third formant. R-colored vowels can be articulated in various ways: the tip or blade of the tongue may be turned up during at least part of the articulation of the vowel (a retroflex articulation) or the back of the tongue may be bunched. In addition, the vocal tract may often be constricted in the region of the epiglottis. R-colored vowels are rare, occurring in less than one percent of the languages of...

In the coda, it just colors the preceding vowel.