TeX, LaTeX and Friends

12:38 AM

A expl3 doubt: what's the difference between \csname \str_lower_case:n { FOO } \endcsname and \csname \tl_to_str:f { \tl_lower_case:n { FOO } } \endcsname and even \csname \tl_lower_case:n { FOO } \endcsname. What's the use-case of \str_lower_case:n?

Paulo Cereda

12:49 AM

1

Q: How to install "vanilla" TeXLive on Fedora?

Fedora has provided a very good texlive packaging. But, I think it's best to install texlive directly, using ./install-tl command. I have installed texlive directly on Ubuntu system before, by using this guide: How to install "vanilla" TeXLive on Debian or Ubuntu? (thanks to Torbjørn T, for the...

Do you guys think it's worth answering? I can provide a couple of additional hints.

Johannes_B

6:36 AM

I don't understand the question can somebody explain it to me?

how do you mean exactly "by hand"? — flow 10 hours ago

Jester Tran

hello

@Johannes_B do you know how to draw venn diagrams on latex with shading (symmetric difference)?

Johannes_B

6:53 AM

@JesterTran No. sorry.

Joseph Wright

@Manuel I added \str_lower_case:n as we need some way to handle for example taking some user input and making into a csname

@Manuel \tl_lower_case:n is for text (as I've noted elsewhere, the name may be wrong but we don't currently have a good place for such things)

@Manuel I added \str_lower_case:n as we need some way to handle for example taking some user input and making into a csname

Jester Tran

HEY GUYS

@JosephWright do you know how to draw venn diagrams on latex with shading (for symmetric difference)?

Johannes_B

@JesterTran Did you just ask that question on the main site?

Jester Tran

@Johannes_B Woops, I forgot, lol

Johannes_B

@JesterTran ?

Jester Tran

7:00 AM

@Johannes_B I'm assuming you are referring to the exact question I just send through chat.stackexchange. The answer is no

Joseph Wright

@Manuel I originally only added \str_fold_case:n (for caseless stuff) but this didn't cover for example what you'll find in chemgreek for taking user input and looking up the csname for Greek mappings (they need an upper case letter)

Johannes_B

@JesterTran I am referring to the question tagged biblatex though nothing to do with biblatex. The question that is asking for a website that generates the LaTeX code for Venn diagrams.

Joseph Wright

@Manuel \tl_lower_case:n has all of the context-dependent stuff and may yet deviate from Unicode in Greek mappings (a complex area), whereas \str_lower_case:n is strictly 1-1 and based purely on Unicode data

Jester Tran

@Johannes_B Of course that's me and wrong tag. How do I change it?

Joseph Wright

@JesterTran Other than 'I'd do it in TikZ', no

Jester Tran

7:03 AM

Don't you think it's a great idea? Too many have problems with Venn Diagrams on LaTeX

Johannes_B

@JesterTran What is the question you have? I don't see any. It is more a Can somebody create a website? which is off-topic here, and elsewhere in the network.

71

Q: How to draw Venn diagrams (especially: complements) in LaTeX

What I am up to is to write some exercises dealing with logical formulas for my students, like: And the students should draw these formulas on Venn diagrams. At the end of the lesson, I really would like to print the correct answer for them. I found a great resource on a forum thread at latex...

tikz-pgf gnuplot r logic venn-diagrams

Jester Tran

@Johannes_B Chillll. I've already seen that

@Johannes_B But seriously, do you think it's a feasible idea?

Johannes_B

@JesterTran Every tool that generates code needs (more or less) polishing to achieve high-end results. Still, what is it you are asking for?

Jester Tran

@Johannes_B Ok, thanks, I'll try work off that link

@Johannes_B I love you

Jester Tran

7:33 AM

With tex.stackexchange.com/questions/9681/…

How would you \clip the intersection?

i.e. \fill everything in \firstcircle and nothing in \firstcircle \cap \secondcircle

Christian Hupfer

10:28 AM

@Johannes_B: Today's menu: Chicken Jalfrezi -- Indian of course

yo'

11:20 AM

@ChristianHupfer ooh! :) Today's menu: Sauerkraut, Geräuchertes Fleisch, Kartoffeln

Und Bier

Christian Hupfer

12:05 PM

@yo' Too German for me

egreg

@yo' Gulyás for me (Hungarian style)

Christian Hupfer

@yo': Guten Appetit

barbara beeton

@yo' -- for lunch, braeburn apple and crunchy peanut butter. for dinner, not decided yet, but probably indian.

yo'

12:23 PM

@barbarabeeton oh! Dinner will be just a salad here :)

Paulo Cereda

2:37 PM

Oh I had beef and rice. :)

yo'

@PauloCereda boeuf bourgignon?

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Delicious, I assume?

Paulo Cereda

@yo' I have no idea. :)

@ChristianHupfer yummy!

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda: Speaking of food. I wanted to improve my baking knowledge and prepare a cake

yo'

@ChristianHupfer oh a cake! Reminds me of: I have to prepare the dough for the Bday cake for my dad, sis and her husband. (It will be a tarte au citron)

Christian Hupfer

2:43 PM

@yo' Ok, while you're baking anyway -- you could prepare my cake too :-D

yo'

(And I will use @barbara's perfect measuring set for making it!)

@ChristianHupfer if you come get it in Prague :)

Christian Hupfer

@yo' I scan the ingredients and attach the scans to a mail :D

yo'

@ChristianHupfer you mean you want the recipe? :)

Christian Hupfer

@yo' Nope. I will send you scans of the ingredients of my cake and you will prepare or use a 3D - printer, whatever ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer ooh cake

yo'

2:50 PM

@ChristianHupfer oh, 3D printers are for dummies

Christian Hupfer

@yo' :D We should give one to @PauloCereda to provide him with "Cookies on Demand" ;-)

yo'

3:05 PM

Replicator (Star Trek)

In Star Trek a replicator is a machine capable of creating (and recycling) objects. Replicators were originally seen used to synthesize meals on demand, but in later series they took on many other uses. == Origins and limitations == Although previous sci-fi writers had speculated about the development of "replicating" or "duplicating" technology, the term "replicator" was not itself used until Star Trek: The Next Generation. In simple terms, it was described as a 24th century advancement from the 23rd century "food synthesizer" seen in Star Trek: The Original Series. The mechanics of these devices...

Christian Hupfer

3:18 PM

@yo': \prg_replicate:nn{cookies}{Give to @PauloCereda} ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer YES!

yo'

@ChristianHupfer Give ~ to ~ @PauloCereda

Christian Hupfer

@yo' I am using a Spaces-aware version of expl3 especially needed for cookies designed to be given to @PauloCereda -- no ~ needed ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer WHERE ARE MY COOKIES

I WAS PROMISED COOKIE

QUACKS UNCONTROLLABLY

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Some quantum fluctuations prevent the sending of cookies to you

@PauloCereda More than usually? :D

Paulo Cereda

3:24 PM

@ChristianHupfer Somewhere in the multiverse, there is a duck getting my cookies?!

@ChristianHupfer <3

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda They are virtual cookies actually, not violatiing the Heisenberg uncertainty principle for cookies ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer ooh so Heisenberg does not know how fast my cookies travel, but he knows where they are! :)

@David: some quantum bloke stole my cookies!

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda: No, rather like \Delta P \times \Delta C > 1 ... Delta P is the number of cookies for Paulo, and \Delta C is the number of Cookies for Christian ... Sorry, You lost :-P

Paulo Cereda

Oh no!

That's why ducks do not like Physics or Math or any other subject that requires cognitive skills. :)

Paulo Cereda

4:15 PM

Yay, M&M's!

yo'

@PauloCereda oh you want me to gain weight again :(

:)

Paulo Cereda

@yo' oh but if you gain weight, it means there will be more of you. <3

SCIENCE ROCKS

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda How many peanuts had to die for your M@Ms? :-(

yo'

@PauloCereda <3 I think there's enough of me.

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer I think my M&M's do not have peanuts. :)

yo'

4:19 PM

@PauloCereda it's not the yellow ones (I mean, yellow package)

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Not even an assaulted one? ;-)

egreg

Does everybody get the same icon for all sites?

yo'

@egreg yes, reported 22 minutes ago:

18

Q: Meta Stack Exchange's logo shows up as "3D"

This just started happening on non-meta sites: Meta Stack Exchange's logo in the "Featured on Meta" section seems to have been replaced with some site's logo. Mousing over the icon does produce "Meta Stack Exchange" as normal, and the link works. It even happens in the reputation and inbox dr...

bug design logo

Christian Hupfer

@egreg: Yes -- didn't notice it yet

Henri Menke

Hello everybody!

yo'

4:24 PM

@HenriMenke Hello Henri!

Henri Menke

So you also noticed that TeX acquired 3D printing capabilties.

Paulo Cereda

@yo' oh it's one with chocolate. :)

Henri Menke

At least according to our new favicon.

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer :)

egreg

@yo' It's your fault! You were depreciating 3D printing

2 hours ago, by yo'

@ChristianHupfer oh, 3D printers are for dummies

Henri Menke

4:25 PM

BTW, Happy Easter everybody!

yo'

@egreg oh no!

@PauloCereda the yellow ones are with a peanut and chocolate :)

Paulo Cereda

@HenriMenke Hi!

yo'

@HenriMenke Christ is risen!

Paulo Cereda

@HenriMenke Happy Easter!

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda @yo': I am using the brown M@M packages ... they can be thrown and showing statistics ;-) M upside --> eat them immediately, the ones get back to the cup and are thrown again ;-)

2

Paulo Cereda

4:28 PM

@ChristianHupfer I've heard of the throw of an honest coin. Now a honest M&M... :)

Henri Menke

So, a few days ago I was refactoring my CV, which I made a long time ago using moderncv. Doing so I noticed that moderncv is an undocumented jungle of macros. Back when I first wrote it I seemed to be happy with the defaults, but as soon as you want to deviate slightly you are completely on your own. Now it is a memoir document with the article option.

barbara beeton

@ChristianHupfer -- oh, dear! next you'll be asking how many peanuts had to die for my crunchy peanut butter!

2

Christian Hupfer

@barbarabeeton That was indeed my next question on my list of Very important questions ;-)

@PauloCereda And you can show exponential decay (in some sense)

Paulo Cereda

@barbarabeeton ooh a crunchy peanut butter!

yo'

@HenriMenke I don't use any CV template for a reason ;) IMHO it's too trivial to need a class of its own, and the amount of necessary manual tweaking kills the automation idea

Paulo Cereda

4:30 PM

@ChristianHupfer :)

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda: I prefer the crunchy frog ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer ewwww

yo'

@ChristianHupfer I didn't know you're French

Paulo Cereda

@HenriMenke I have pretty much the same approach. :)

Henri Menke

@yo' True! I just picked the cherries from the moderncv visuals and dumped the rest.

Christian Hupfer

4:31 PM

@yo' Nobody's perfect ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@yo' Le Monsieur Christian Hupfer. :)

Henri Menke

@PauloCereda TL15 will soon be frozen. Will we see arara 4.0 in TL16?

David Carlisle

@HenriMenke ask him if he's finished his thesis

barbara beeton

@PauloCereda -- chocolate comes separately. individual portions hacked out of a 5-kilo slab of 70% belgian chocolate. (confirmed chocaholic here.)

Henri Menke

@DavidCarlisle ^^^

Paulo Cereda

4:35 PM

@HenriMenke I wish, but thesis is now in a critical stage. :(

Henri Menke

@PauloCereda Well then, good quack... err luck!

Paulo Cereda

@Henri: I am very anxious to release the new version, but things are quite hectic at the moment. :(

@barbarabeeton ooh me wantee chocolate!

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle I see Chris is on form

yo'

Icons are back! @egreg

Paulo Cereda

Is it possible to have a TUG meeting in a chocolate factory?

Das Chokolatehaus!

@ChristianHupfer: ^^

David Carlisle

4:37 PM

@JosephWright use of spam filter comes to mind.

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Hm... Schokoladenhaus

yo'

@PauloCereda If it's ever in Czechia we should have the dinner in a sweetshop. Excursion to a chocolate factory should be possible as well, but I'm not sure it would be preferred over a brewery :)

barbara beeton

is it just me, or is the main site having problems? (i keep getting the "something bad happened" notice ...)

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer ooh sehr gut!

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda: There's a Chocolate Museum in Cologne -- very interesting -- and some free chocolate ;-),

Paulo Cereda

4:39 PM

@yo' Yay!

yo'

@barbarabeeton there are issues of that kind, for instance meta.stackexchange.com/questions/277523/…

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer FREE CHOCOLATE

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle :-)

Paulo Cereda

@barbarabeeton issues here as well.

egreg

@yo' Yes, but no question page is reachable

Joseph Wright

4:40 PM

@DavidCarlisle I'm going to reply in a mo'

David Carlisle

@barbarabeeton not just you

yo'

@egreg yeah, seems Nick "fixed" the issues

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Well, free after paying the fee for the entrance :D

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer You could enter, get the free chocolate for us, while we wait outside. :)

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda The free chocolate is served in the most inner chamber of the museum, it's running warm out of a huge fontain ;-) I'll enter and tell you like it is afterwards.

David Carlisle

4:43 PM

@PauloCereda sorry nothing for you ^^

Christian Hupfer

@DavidCarlisle The t of their and s of sources are out of line here ;-)

barbara beeton

@ChristianHupfer -- in providence, there's a cafe choklad, but it really doesn't seem to offer much in the way of real chocolate enticements. even hot chocolate is only number 12 on their list of beverages ...

Christian Hupfer

@barbarabeeton So it's rather Cafe Jokelad because choklad is only a Joke? ;-)

barbara beeton

@DavidCarlisle -- hmmmph. canada geese don't even need to be fed "human" food to take up residence on golf courses and athletic fields, with attendant green leavings.

@ChristianHupfer -- seems as if. menu is quite disappointing in that regard. viennese coffee houses rate higher.

Alan Munn

Is it just me or do all pages on the site link to an error message at the moment? (except for the main page).

barbara beeton

4:50 PM

@AlanMunn -- you're not alone.

Henri Menke

@AlanMunn Only the questions. The “top level” pages, such as Tags or Users still work for me.

@AlanMunn Now it works again.

yo'

The whole SE network seems "broken now": meta.stackexchange.com/questions/277523/…

egreg

@yo' Seems to have been fixed

barbara beeton

@ChristianHupfer -- here's the description of one of the sandwiches from their lunch menu: cuban: pork tenderloin, black forest ham, swiss, hot sauce, mustard, mayo, ciabatta -- what a geographical mish-mosh!

yo'

@egreg may be, lets wait for the official answer

Alan Munn

4:53 PM

@egreg Yes, at least now the pages are back for me too. The comments on the meta site say it's sporadic, so it may not be truly fixed I guess.

egreg

@AlanMunn It affected only some users.

yo'

@AlanMunn that's why I say "lets wait for the official answer"

egreg

@barbarabeeton Do you know what's ciabatta in Italian? ;-)

David Carlisle

This was our fault. We noticed that our error pages got appreciably fewer views than everything else, and asked engineering to break everything in order to fix that. — Tim Post ♦ 3 mins ago

seems reasonable to me:-)

barbara beeton

@egreg -- well, on menus hereabouts, it's a kind of dense breadlike substance, thick enough to be sliced horizontally only in half or thirds. i shudder to think what the original meaning might be.

egreg

5:08 PM

@barbarabeeton ciabatta = slipper :) But it also denotes a type of bread, because of the shape.

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle Oh. :(

@DavidCarlisle: My new XONE arrived! :)

David Carlisle

5:29 PM

@PauloCereda LEAVE IT IN ITS BOX UNTIL YOU HAVE FINISHED YOUR ....

egreg

@DavidCarlisle Dinner?

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle oh no!

@egreg <3

David Carlisle

@egreg Arara?

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle Oh no too!

GPhys

Zermelo-Fraenkel or Zermelo--Fraenkel?

Alan Munn

5:35 PM

@GPhys Wikipedia seems to like the latter. But the definitive answer is likely to come from @barbarabeeton

David Carlisle

@GPhys not everyone agrees but usual advice is to use endash (--) so you can distinguish two authors from one author with a hyphenated name

Alan Munn

@DavidCarlisle Assuming you're the kind of person who notices such minutiae. :)

David Carlisle

@AlanMunn that's a given round here:-)

GPhys

Thank you

barbara beeton

@GPhys -- here i agree with @DavidCarlisle. an easier principle to follow (although it doesn't apply here) is that if what's on either side of the "separator" is a phrase, then use an en-dash.

GPhys

5:38 PM

All right, thanks everybody

Joseph Wright

5:51 PM

@DavidCarlisle Perhaps I won't reply ...

David Carlisle

@JosephWright :-)

Joseph Wright

8:35 PM

@DavidCarlisle Have a feeling my next team list message will wind people up :-(

David Carlisle

@JosephWright good

@JosephWright the ini one? I'd wondered about those licr entries as well

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Yes

@DavidCarlisle Did you see the discussion on XeTeX/LuaTeX lists?

@DavidCarlisle I suspect Chris will have something to say

David Carlisle

8:52 PM

@JosephWright yes

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Got a bit heated

David Carlisle

@JosephWright :-)

@JosephWright heated and missing the point that babel needs to work with pdftex, even if the discussion was on xetex list

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle I guess the position there might be 'leave the pdfTeX code exactly as is and only make adjustments for Unicode engines'

David Carlisle

@JosephWright sounds like a lot of duplication to maintain text translations in separate forms for pdftex and lua/xetex (even more than having an extra field in the "ini" file)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Yes, I know :-)

Paulo Cereda

9:00 PM

@JosephWright: I answered tex.stackexchange.com/questions/301126/…, but maybe it's a dupe.

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda Yes, saw that and think it probably is a dupe

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright Indeed, I added a couple of hints on specific setup.

egreg

@PauloCereda I seem to have already seen that pathmunge!

Herr K.

Hi guys, I've got a quick question. Is it possible to enter random unicode characters in a document without knowing the language(s) to which the characters belong? I've seen many answers with \usepackage[utf8]{inputenc} plus bable/inputenc, but they all seems to require that we know which language we're writing in.

Joseph Wright

@HerrK. You can enter them, the issue comes with displaying them (which is a reason why inputenc is conservative)

Herr K.

9:06 PM

@JosephWright, yeah, sorry I meant displaying them.

Paulo Cereda

@egreg Oh good point, I have to give you credit for that!

Joseph Wright

@HerrK. The problem is you need font coverage, and there is no font covering all of Unicode

David Carlisle

@HerrK. you have a better chance of them displaying if you use xetex or luatex and a big unicode font, using inputenc with pdftex it is hard to cover a big range by default

Paulo Cereda

@egreg: done! Sorry, I am so used to that piece of code that I forgot to give you credit.

egreg

@PauloCereda Oh, don't worry! I liked the duck!

Paulo Cereda

9:09 PM

@egreg :)

Herr K.

I see... Thank you @JosephWright @DavidCarlisle !!

Paulo Cereda

@egreg: the duck resembles Alfred Hitchcock if he were a duck. :)

egreg

Alfred Hitchcock Presents Theme

►

Paulo Cereda

@egreg oooooh the very same song came to my mind!

dessert

@HerrK. I'm using plenty of strange characters directly in my documents, have a look at \DeclareUnicodeCharacter and \newunicodechar (the latter from the newunicodechar package) to define them.

yo'

9:12 PM

This depresses me. Anybody knows how to import CSV table with contacts into my Android phone?

Paulo Cereda

Alfred Hitchcock Intro Theme (Funeral March Of A Marionette)

►

@egreg: ^^ :)

Herr K.

9:31 PM

@dessert I'd still need to have the suitable font loaded in order for the characters to display properly, right?

dessert

@HerrK. Yes you do.

Herr K.

which font should I load to display these characters properly?

These apparently belong to languages: celtic, sami, maltese, and turkish, according to unicode-table.com/en/#01FC

dessert

@HerrK. with lualatex you mean? you should be able to use any font with lualatex, so just search for one that fits your needs. I'm writing in linguistics a lot and use Titus Cyberbit Unicode (titus.fkidg1.uni-frankfurt.de/unicode/tituut.asp) and FreeIdgSerif (which can be downloaded in my academia.edu profile: academia.edu/10615187/…)

Herr K.

@dessert with pdflatex. Unfortunately I don't use lua..

dessert

@HerrK. in pdflatex (I admit it, I didn't even give lualatex a try yet!) I'm combining letters and accents manually and set Unicode chars to enter them directly, you may want to have a look at The Comprehensive LaTeX Symbol List: tug.ctan.org/info/symbols/comprehensive/symbols-a4.pdf

David Carlisle

9:42 PM

@HerrK. with pdftex it's not "a font" it's a number of fonts, since each font can only have 256 characters

dessert

@HerrK. I'm also experimenting with some macros to combine diacritics or place them correctly, but until now I'm just fiddling about

@HerrK. So to answer your question straight: No, it is not at all possible to enter random unicode characters in a document without knowing the language(s) to which the characters belong, least of all without using lualatex. In my perception TeX is just not made for this, and even with Unicode it's still a great mess when it comes to just a little special characters.

Herr K.

@dessert: Thanks. The LaTeX symbols list helps somewhat, with the letter+accent characters. But I'm still struggling with others...

dessert

10:02 PM

@HerrK. You're welcome. If you can't find them in the symbol list, search ctan for a package for the corresponding language or Schrift (I really don't know a good english word for this, but I assume you understand me. ;-), maybe they missed something.

cfr

11:40 PM

@To whom it may concern: please don't approve edits for answers which add images of output from code which is not included in the answer - especially not when the answer already includes an image of the output which the code does produce. I can't ping people who approve edits, especially since one of the two is @Community, so the best I can do is probably to put this here. (How does Community approve edits? Is this the moderators? If so, I protest the decision!)

It must be confusing to have an answer with one lot of code and two contradictory images both of which the answer claims are produced by that code. Surely this cannot be best practice?

@dessert script ?

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