The h Bar

@Danu oh, it was definitely funny, but given the circumstances, Ι think we're better off without it here. Part of being nice is ensuring that, when you make jokes, the people whose behavior the joke is based on also find it funny (or at least will take it in stride).

Danu

@JohnRennie This actually happened? :P

0celo7

@Danu in physics?

Danu

@DavidZ I think JD doesn't feel too threatened by me (we're on a clear "agree to disagree" AFAIK).

John Rennie

The stackexchange SUCKS and John Rennie is an ASShole

►

Danu

@0celo7 This was not so well-separated in my particular case---I didn't go to a standard physics program.

@JohnRennie Hah.

John Rennie

5:12 PM

@Danu I can't find that book. Do you have an Amazon link?

Danu

Worth watching?

David Z

@Danu if so, that's good. I could be overreacting a bit, sure, but under the circumstances I really do think we should stay away from that kind of content.

John Rennie

@Danu I watched it to see why I'd been singled out. I wouldn't describe it as compulsive viewing.

Danu

@JohnRennie There is a draft floating around---it's almost exactly the same as the final version.

Let me see if I can find it.

@JohnRennie I think it's legal-ish: math.uwaterloo.ca/~akempf/text.pdf

Mukhanov knows it's there and he doesn't seem to mind (I took his course based on the book)

0celo7

@Danu According to Lee, him "minding" is not relevant because the publisher owns the book

Minding or not.

ACuriousMind

5:17 PM

@DavidZ "the circumstances"?

Danu

@0celo7 It's not the same as the published book.

John Rennie

@Danu Aha, thanks :-)

Actually I know how to write down the geodesic equations, I just don't know how to solve them.

Danu

Lmao

physics.stackexchange.com/questions/196812/…

Qmechanic, priceless

@JohnRennie It's funny how the guy actually gets really angry.

Also, that he doesn't believe you can see something is bullshit in 12 minutes.

John Rennie

12 seconds is often long enough

Danu

Yeah, seriously. It's hilarious to see how unaware most crackpots are that they're pretty much the same as the other ones.

@JohnRennie He is so angry, about 7 minutes in.

0celo7

5:30 PM

To be fair no one even tried to answer his question.

Emilio's answer really misses the point.

And John's comment does too.

Danu

No, not really. Have you watched the whole video?

John Rennie

To be fair my comment was pretty rude. It didn't seem so at the time, but in retrospect I all but called him an idiot.

Danu

@JohnRennie Meh, I think that's fair. Especially after seeing his reaction.

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 The question is non-sensical. What does "The "standard model" of the photon describe it as a complex "wavelike" element containing electrical and magnetic components" even mean?

0celo7

@ACuriousMind He wants to know why photons are quantized electromagnetic waves.

Or quanta of the EM field or whatever you want to call it.

ACuriousMind

5:34 PM

So...he's just asking for evidence for QFT?

0celo7

Yup.

He wants to know why the photon is not a composite particle as well.

ACuriousMind

I think that's a very charitable interpretation :P

0celo7

His theory is that the photon splits into two parts, each part goes through the slit and interferes like that.

Danu

The stackexchange SUCKS and John Rennie is an ASShole

►

0celo7

Why are you posting that again?

Danu

5:36 PM

Click to find out.

0celo7

I'm not going to watch it again, @Danu.

Especially not in the middle of a lecture.

Danu

@0celo7 It's just he last 15 seconds.

0celo7

Ok, what about it?

John Rennie

Actually it's quite a good quote :-)

Danu

Just a funny quote

@JohnRennie Btw, you never really got any attention in that video... He should've said Emilio is an asshole ;)

0celo7

5:40 PM

@ACuriousMind Basically, he was asking for why Maxwellian electromagnetism and QFT work, and the answers were that Maxwellian electromagnetism and QFT work.

Danu

There were references to the usual experiments

It's obvious that he was just not convinced by anything mainstream

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 "This includes things like Young's double slit experiment, the Poisson-Arago spot, and indeed the radio antennas, power cables, and electrical circuits that make your posts on this site possible." is not "it works because it works".

It's exactly the evidence he asked for.

0celo7

Nope.

Naming a bunch of stuff does not constitute an explanation.

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 Googling the names of the experiments easily leads to all the details. Claiming that doesn't constitute an answer is willful obstinacy.

0celo7

That's a fancy word for "trolling"

ACuriousMind

5:45 PM

It's as good an answer as you can expect when you show your disinterest in actual physics by linking to a crackpot page.

0celo7

He doesn't consider it a crackpot page.

Danu

@0celo7 You're forgetting the important fact that we have no responsibility whatsoever to "cure" people of their misguided views on physics.

If people don't want to learn from us, good riddance.

0celo7

Uh, I'm not defending the guy. I'm just saying his frustration is understandable.

Danu

No, it's not because he's obviously not trying to learn anything.

0celo7

Whatever.

Danu

5:50 PM

He's just an angry crackpot who hates to see his nonsensical theory be discarded by the community.

0celo7

@Danu I don't disagree with that.

But he didn't get the answer he was looking for on that question.

Danu

@0celo7 No, because the answer he was looking for was "damn you're right, we've been wrong about this all along"

0celo7

Partially, yes.

Danu

You're giving him much too much credit.

0celo7

@Danu I'm a nice guy.

DanielSank

6:07 PM

@JohnRennie Please tell me you have photos of this.

John Rennie

@DanielSank Luckily for mankind no photos exist.

Danu

Heyo Daniel

John Rennie

@DanielSank The only photo from that time I know of is:

Cute little fellow, aren't I? :-)

Danu

We're doing baby pictures now? :)

The Dark Side

@DavidZ :: Nitpick mode: activated :: Minor typo in the pop-up:

"Keep these mind"

=> "Keep these in mind"

Danu

6:20 PM

You actually read it? ;)

ACuriousMind

@TheDarkSide Typos, etc. of such general features should go (with screenshot) to Meta Stack Exchange, our moderators can't do anything about them

The Dark Side

@Danu - Couldn't help it. It popped up!

@ACuriousMind I didn't take a screenshot :(

And ...

1 hour ago, by David Z

The popup about being nice is a new feature. It's shown to every user exactly once.

:(

ACuriousMind

Well, I haven't seen it yet, so I'll keep an eye out for the typos ;)

The Dark Side

@ACuriousMind Perhaps you aren't a naughty Slereah!

Kinnisal Mountain Chicken

Danu

6:28 PM

lol

The Dark Side

@Danu I didn't get it.

ACuriousMind

There a screenshot in this meta post of the popup that shows teh typo

Anyone who wants to earn a bit meta.SE rep should hurry, add a freehand circle, and make a bug post about the typo with it

DanielSank

@JohnRennie That's almost as good as if you were wearing an octopus costume.

@TheDarkSide No no, you don't understand. They're offering you some mind.

John Rennie

One day I must demand that my mother reveals all the incriminating pictures of me and my brother as children. Then I can burn them! :-)

DanielSank

@JohnRennie Awww, come on. Octopus costume! That's great.

There was a new species of octopus discovered recently.

0celo7

6:34 PM

Tfw no clue how to make a freehand circle

DanielSank

Very deep, more than 2 miles down.

It only has one row of suckers on each arm, which is weird.

John Rennie

@DanielSank I think it sucks. Sucks. As in octopus suckers. OK I'll leave now.

DanielSank

Fun physics fact, at that depth the pressure is about 400 atmospheres!

@JohnRennie -_-

0celo7

ACM got the award for worst pun ever a few days ago

DanielSank

Woah, it's raining. It never does that here...

0celo7

6:36 PM

No one can ever top him.

@DanielSank CA saved?

John Rennie

@DanielSank That's nothing!

6

A: Can water pressure ever be high enough to trap gas bubbles or keep them from surfacing?

The highest pressure in the ocean is at the bottom of the Mariana trench, where the pressure is 1,086 atmospheres. Using the online calculator for the properties on nitrogen at 4°C and 1,000 atmospheres the density comes out as 602 kg/m$^3$, which is still less than water. So a bubble of nitrogen...

DanielSank

@0celo7 Maybe.

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 like this^

DanielSank

@JohnRennie Waaaaait a minute.

0celo7

Lol ACM

ACuriousMind

6:37 PM

@0celo7 Which one?

John Rennie

@DanielSank Oh no, he's found a mistake in my answer!!

0celo7

The flute one

Woodwind instrument

The Dark Side

@ACuriousMind Done, sir.

0

Q: Typo in chat pop-up

Not of any major consequence, but there is a small typo in the new chat pop-up reminding everyone to Be Nice, as the image below indicates: "Keep these mind" need to be changed to "Keep these in mind".

Not very eloquent, but still ...

DanielSank

@JohnRennie Does it really work like that?

0celo7

Bug? It's a feature.

DanielSank

6:40 PM

If I go deep enough and release some nitrogen it will really condense and sink?

The Dark Side

@DanielSank lol. And Hi Mr. Sank, been some time. :)

DanielSank

If that's true that means there's a "critical depth" above which nitrogen rises and below which it sinks. Something about this sounds funky.

ACuriousMind

@TheDarkSide No freehand circle, that halves the potential rep.

DanielSank

@TheDarkSide Hello.

0celo7

Actually it was an oboe joke, wasn't it?

John Rennie

6:41 PM

@DanielSank I think the calculation is fine. Though note that the depth would have to be at least four times the deepest ocean on Earth.

And the nitrogen would probably just dissolve in the water anyway.

DanielSank

@JohnRennie Yeah I'm mostly worried about this behavior where the bubble either goes up or down.

John Rennie

Well if the curves for the density of water and nitrogen as a function of pressure cross then that's what would happen. Whether the curves cross or not I don't know.

The paper I found suggested that they could, but it's far from hard evidence.

DanielSank

@JohnRennie Hm, ok.

Kinnisal Mountain Chicken

@TheDarkSide Beautiful drawing!

The Dark Side

@ACuriousMind Thanks. I'm so out of loop. :P

@KinnisalMountainChicken lol

Danu

6:47 PM

@DanielSank Wut?

I don't think that's the case---I think there are animals that live on nitrogen (gas) very deep down.

DanielSank

@Danu Wut?

ACuriousMind

@Danu Note that John wrote that happens at a depth deeper than any ocean.

Danu

@ACuriousMind OK---good.

Never mind :D

John Rennie

I only make mistakes in my answers about quantum mechanics

Kinnisal Mountain Chicken

@ACuriousMind And you're saying there are no animals there?

0celo7

6:49 PM

@ACuriousMind implying we know all the deep spots

ACuriousMind

@KinnisalMountainChicken Animals? Certainly not. Bacteria...maybe, I don't know.

But I don't think we know bacteria in the depths other than in volcanoes and oceans.

0celo7

I've never seen a bacterium

And neither have you

The Dark Side

So, I learnt @KinnisalMountainChicken $\equiv$ "Keep these mind"

Keep these mind

103 3

discussion feature-request

ACuriousMind

lol

The Dark Side

@ACuriousMind No, it is a fact. Click on his/her chat profile.

0celo7

6:52 PM

@ACuriousMind what's a good German joke

ACuriousMind

Yeah, they changed it, and it hasn't propagated into chat yet

0celo7

that's really German

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 How many Germans do you need to screw in a lightbulb? One. We're efficient and don't have a sense of humor.

The Dark Side

@ACuriousMind Oh

0celo7

No, a Witz auf Deutsch

ACuriousMind

6:54 PM

@0celo7 Ugh, I hate those

0celo7

@ACuriousMind bitte

für mich

Kinnisal Mountain Chicken

"Which nationality was Ötzi the Iceman? He wasn't Italian, as he carried tools, he wasn't Austrian, since he had brains, he might have been Swiss, since he was overtaken by a glacier, but most probably he was a North German, because nobody else walks in sandals in the mountains."

0celo7

Too German for me.

@PeterDiehr Only locally. There are many spacetimes with a flat metric that are globally distinct from Minkowksi spacetime. — Timaeus 16 hours ago

@ACuriousMind Is a complete flat space Minkowski?

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 No.

0celo7

@ACuriousMind The only examples I can come up with are those with topological defects, i.e. not complete.

Hmm, I guess there's the torus.

Physics Meta

7:02 PM

0

Q: How is this question not too broad?

Somehow my flag for too broad got declines on this question: What is time dilation really? . Just the fact that the answer spans over 3 actually answers proofs by definition that this question doesn't below on a StackExchange site. There is a limit on answer length with a reason. Wanted to flag W...

discussion support

0celo7

Heh ^

@JohnRennie Looks like you have a new fan

Kinnisal Mountain Chicken

@JohnRennie "this one isn't as absolutely terrible as the original one"

0celo7

witze.net/deutsche-witze

@ACuriousMind Sind alle Deutsche Witze über Ausländer?

Kinnisal Mountain Chicken

So, maybe he has a point. This @JohnRennie book-publishing should end.

The Dark Side

Why is the OP pissed? What do we have to lose if that question stays?

0celo7

7:09 PM

OP just a h8r

The Dark Side

Ahh.

So, the pop-up is fixed now:

4

A: Typo in chat pop-up

Fixed. I added an in in in the file.

ACuriousMind

And the message stating the typo fix has a typo (one 'in' too many) :D

John Duffield

@JohnRennie : the trouble comes when what you think is a that's how it works moment of revelation is not in line with Einstein, not in agreement with the hard scientific evidence, and I'm afraid, not correct.

John Rennie

@KinnisalMountainChicken You'll appreciate that having spent several days crafting this series of Q/As I'm not impressed to have a user with a one answer and a rep of 242 telling me the question shouldn't be posted.

The Dark Side

@ACuriousMind Noticed it while you were posting it. Suggested an edit for the same. :)

And lol.

Danu

7:15 PM

@JohnDuffield Einstein and the evidence? Check!

Keep these mind

@JohnRennie And I do.

@Danu Stop!

@Danu BE NICE!

lol

Eh? What? Why can't I just point out that there is once again mention of Einstein and the evidence?

John Duffield

7:16 PM

@Danu : the evidence is what distinguishes science from speculation. It's important.

The Dark Side

@ACuriousMind Sometimes I wonder how HSM.SE gets moderated :P

Danu

Sorry guys @JohnRennie @TheDarkSide but you should really chill out---it's all in good fun.

The Dark Side

lol

Danu

@TheDarkSide Have a look around for yourself. I can assure you I'm much more serious in my capacity as a moderator.

In fact, if there is ever going to be a PSE mod election, I might consider running!

...but if ACM runs I guess it's a hopeless quest, judging by his fan club ;D

The Dark Side

"Sorry guys @Danu but you should really chill out---it's all in good fun"

John Duffield

7:19 PM

@JohnRennie : OK noted. I did think you were referring to me.

Danu

@TheDarkSide Huh?

The Dark Side

lol. Copy-paste, leave the raste.

Keep these mind

What is the best piece of evidence that Einstein ever existed?

Danu

@Keepthesemind His brain, which was against his will dissected?

I don't think anyone can beat that :D

The Dark Side

@Keepthesemind @0celo7's cat's poo. :D

@Danu I think I did. :P

John Duffield

7:22 PM

@0celo7 : I don't believe in time travel and the multiverse, or heaven and hell and sweet baby Jesus. And I definitely don't believe in reincarnation.

ACuriousMind

@Danu Don't you know I'm a dick and a douche?

Danu

@TheDarkSide No, I really don't think so :P

@ACuriousMind We all love the D

John Duffield

@Danu : what's all this about threatened?

Danu

@JohnDuffield I think you don't feel threatened by me (as I said over there).

Therefore, I feel comfortable making some remarks such as the one a few minutes ago, without being afraid of you taking it overly seriously.

John Duffield

@Danu : what remark?

Keep these mind

7:29 PM

@Danu You brute.

Danu

14 mins ago, by Danu

@JohnDuffield Einstein and the evidence? Check!

John Duffield

@Danu : oh that. That's nothing.

Danu

@JohnDuffield :-)

John Duffield

I'm not sure I feel "threatened" about anything here. Feeling threatened is kind of not my style, if you know what I mean. Think of me as your friendly neighbourhood cage fighter.

Danu

Good.

John Duffield

7:32 PM

Smacks fist into palm. OK, anybody want to talk about some physics?

Nicely of course. It is a physics chatroom.

hubot

Hi! Do you know how to replace integrals another method of solving exercises?

Keep these mind

Sure. Suppose a unified theory will be found. What would its informational content be? Would everything else we know just be "location" knowledge?

@hubot Is that a German joke?

hubot

Seriously because I can't use integrals and talk about them.

Danu

@hubot Lol

Keep these mind

@hubot You can't talk about integrals?? They make you sick or something?

Danu

7:36 PM

You should focus on learning how to deal with integrals.

hubot

I was forbidden to use integrals in my school.

Danu

@Keepthesemind Chill---maybe he/she's just a bit insecure

Keep these mind

@hubot That seems like a school that I would have liked to have gone to.

0celo7

@hubot huh?

hubot

People think that integrals are evil.

Really strange things happen with me.

Keep these mind

7:38 PM

@hubot They are. But you can start with the answer and then differentiate towards the question.

Danu

Math is evil---that's a popular opinion around these parts.

0celo7

It's the correct opinion, @Danu

hubot

I can always use differentiation.

Science is evil - most popular opinion. "Who's learn is geek."

0celo7

Science people are nerds.

John Duffield

Mathematics is a vital tool for physics. We can't do physics without it. But it isn't what physics is. Physics is a science, physics employs the scientific method. Mathematics isn't, and doesn't. It's important to avoid getting confused about this, and it's important to remember that mathematical abstraction is not reality.

For example, a clock doesn't actually measure a spacetime distance, as you would know if you considered a clock moving at c, or so close to c that we can't tell the difference. That clock might traverse four light years between here and Alpha Centauri. By no account is that distance zero.

Danu

7:45 PM

@JohnDuffield What do you think about renowned mathematician Arnold's opinion that "mathematics is a part of physics" (literal quote)?

Keep these mind

"mathematical abstraction is not reality" How do you know?

ACuriousMind

@Keepthesemind Have you ever seen a manifold in the sky? (No, that's really the essence of his argument)

Keep these mind

Mathematical universe hypothesis

In physics and cosmology, the mathematical universe hypothesis (MUH), also known as the Ultimate Ensemble, is a speculative "theory of everything" (TOE) proposed by the cosmologist Max Tegmark. == Description == Tegmark's mathematical universe hypothesis (MUH) is: Our external physical reality is a mathematical structure. That is, the physical universe is mathematics in a well-defined sense, and "in those [worlds] complex enough to contain self-aware substructures [they] will subjectively perceive themselves as existing in a physically 'real' world". The hypothesis suggests that worlds co...

The Dark Side

Keep these mind

lol

ACuriousMind

7:50 PM

@Keepthesemind Well, I don't care - I think it's an undecidable question whether mathematics simply describes the world or "is" the world as the notion of being/existing is notoriously elusive

hubot

I know that the process of solving typical exercises as Feynman or Landau is note question -> hard thinking -> write answer.

John Duffield

@Danu : like I said, mathematics is a vital tool for physics, we can't do physics without it. But I disagree with sentiments like whole generations of mathematicians grew up without knowing half of their science. I'd say mathematics is a rigorous discipline but it is not a science per se because it doesn't follow the scientific method. Hence a first degree from DAMTP is a BA, not a BSc.

hubot

I've recently a some problems with entry to hard thinking process. I add that lately a lof of bad are happened in my environment.

I talk about live only PM or #social irc.

Do you know some method to focus on Feynman exercises?

0celo7

@DanielSank I think I was just volunteered to do a presentation on Fourier transforms in my research group. Do you have a favorite intro?

Something that stresses applications

Keep these mind

@hubot Listen to bongo drums in the background.

John Duffield

7:58 PM

@Keepthesemind : I know that mathematical abstraction is not reality because I'm very well read, and very logical and empirical. Here, have a look at a this article by Woit: "In this book he indulges his inner crank, describing in detail an uttery empty vision of the “ultimate nature of reality.”

There's more, such as this: "Unfortunately there’s very little in the book about his biggest success in this area, getting the Templeton Foundation to give him and Anthony Aguirre nearly $9 million for a “Foundational Questions Institute” (FQXi). Having cash to distribute on this scale has something to do with why Tegmark’s multiverse ideas have gotten so much attention, and why some physicists are respectfully reviewing the book."

Danu

@0celo7 Does your research group need to learn about FT's?

hubot

I think A.S. Davydov Quantum Mechanics is the most hard lecture that I've encontuered.

ACuriousMind

@Danu I'd have thought engineers learn them as well as physicists do, but maybe I'm being German again :P

hubot

I try solve some Feynman exercise since a less than 2 weeks.

Keep these mind

@JohnDuffield I believe Woit himself is not uncriticised. Like being called a crank/crackpot himself.

ACuriousMind

8:02 PM

Together with Motl, Woit produces enough digital bile for the entire physics community :P

0celo7

@Danu The undergrads do.

Danu

@0celo7 "research group" :D

John Duffield

@0celo7 : see Steven Lehar's web page re the Fourier transform. You may recall that I said a Fourier transform is what happens when you detect a photon in the double-slit experiment, either at one slit or at the screen.

hubot

Can you help in this exercise? Do one reminds 1.10 Feynman exercise?

0celo7

One of the basic things in solid state is to Fourier transform scattering data.

hubot

8:03 PM

I have to calculate cross section of collision per one argon atom

0celo7

@Danu huh?

I'll give the talk in front of the whole group, but it'll mostly benefit the undergrads.

Danu

I imagined "research group" would be PhD+

hubot

I think that I need free path of argon atom

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 Having undergrads in a "research group" is a rather ridiculous idea for Europeans

John Duffield

@Keepthesemind : Woit is a mathematician who is critical of speculative hypotheses that have rumbled on for decades with no scientific support. He doesn't propose and promote crackpot theories. He isn't a crank.

ACuriousMind

8:05 PM

What's called a research group here is usually only the professor and their postdocs and PhD students, and perhaps the master students.

0celo7

@Danu there's 5 of those

@ACuriousMind I can't help that you have a crazy school system

The Dark Side

@ACuriousMind - perhaps we both missed the pun, if there was one:

meta.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/43489

Danu

Undergrads will just slow down the researchers (by... you know... having to learn about FT's first)

The Dark Side

^ that

0celo7

@Danu you're a theorist

The Dark Side

8:09 PM

C'ya guys :)

0celo7

Who do you think does the work in an experimental lab?

Danu

Oh, you're in an experimental group?

0celo7

Yes

"Scattering data"

Danu

Still, I think here it's master+PhD students who do the "hard work" in labs, but okay.

0celo7

We don't have any masters students

Everyone goes from BS into PhD

Danu

8:11 PM

I know that. You should read "grad level"

Note how I said "here"

0celo7

I don't see that

But OK

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 Except for the ones writing their bachelor's thesis with them, there are almost no undergrads in the experimental groups here, either

And the relevance of the work the bachelors do is...highly variable

ACuriousMind

0

Q: Does the Inertia of a Cue Ball Affect its Reflection Angle off a Resting Billiard Ball?

Consider the following Diagram in which a Cue Ball (A) of mass M is shot twice at another pool ball with identical mass M. When the force with which the cue ball (A) is hit (v1) is increased (v2) it seems that the angle which the cue ball is reflected is decreased, while the angle that the oth...

mass reflection geometry inertia

off-topic as HW?

0celo7

@ACuriousMind ok, but putting "research group" in quotes is pretty dickish

hubot

Good bye!

ACuriousMind

8:16 PM

@0celo7 I'd say it's "culturally insensitive"

Danu

Ugh, I hate it when people arrogantly pretend like their philosophical positions aren't philosophical positions.

"Philosophy is not important in physics" is a philosophical statement!

Keep these mind

@ACuriousMind Certainly not!

ACuriousMind

@Danu Hm, it's also an anti-philosophical statement. I wonder what Lo Bello would say about that.

@Keepthesemind It asks about calcuating the result of a collision. What's the conceptual question?

Danu

@ACuriousMind It's inconsistent

(and obviously so)

ACuriousMind

(Also, I really dislike that it is possible to use the association bonus as a bounty)

Keep these mind

8:22 PM

@ACuriousMind Why are the outcomes different? (is the conceptual question.)

Danu

@ACuriousMind Good point

Maybe bring it up on Meta Stack Exchange?

ACuriousMind

-6

Q: Don't let the association bonus be given away as bounties

When a user with at least 200 rep on any Stack Exchange site registers a new account on another SE site, they immediately receive 100 rep on that site as an association bonus. This is a deliberate feature to give users who are already familiar with how the SE platform and community works a bit o...

feature-request reputation bounty linked-accounts association

@Danu Currently at -6 :D

Danu

Damn

Keep these mind

@Danu ""Philosophy is not important in physics" is a philosophical statement!" How is that a refutation?

Danu

@Keepthesemind Refutation of what?

Keep these mind

8:26 PM

@Danu Of "Philosophy is not important in physics".

Danu

@Keepthesemind Any attempt to argue why philosophy is not important in physics will be pretty much by definition be philosophical in nature.

E.g. "We deal with observable things" (This is a philosophical issue)

@Danu: At this point you are seriously leaving the realistic level by accusing me of making a mistake by stating what both you and I actually agree on are trivial facts of the scientific enterprise. You are also devaluing John's effort to properly present facts of the theory by pushing them onto some ontological level on which they don't belong. This ain't philosophy. You can measure these things with ps precision (if not better) in every accelerator lab in the world. And that is all you can do. Why they are like this we simply do not know. Can you say "I do not know!" without blushing? — CuriousOne 3 mins ago

Sigh...

Keep these mind

@Danu But there is no argument here. It's just a statement.

Danu

@Keepthesemind LOL. Okay, dude.

CuriousOne's argumentative style is, to me, exemplary of the kind of behavior that causes physicists to be regarded as smug #&*)@()*^'s

John Duffield

@CuriousOne : physics does answer ontological questions. I posted the answer. It's very simple. — John Duffield 3 mins ago

Look like you lost that argument Danu.

Danu

@JohnDuffield Yeah, hilarious to see someone representing the opposing view---that CuriousOne denies exists---show up "at the right moment" :P

@JohnDuffield Lost that argument? Hah, I surely gave up! If someone simply refuses to read the arguments presented at all, it's not worth wasting everybody's time.

I don't think physics makes ontological claims so I don't actually disagree with any of CuriousOne's concrete statements about physics (I do disagree with you, John) but I think his willful ignorance of the philosophical subtleties is just a cop-out. I'm not going to facilitate it :P

Keep these mind

8:39 PM

billiards.colostate.edu/threads/throw.html

John Duffield

@Danu : shrug. You shouldn't delete your comments like that and slag him off here.

Danu

@JohnDuffield Sorry, I don't exactly know what you mean by "slag him off"

ACuriousMind

@Danu I think he means you shouldn't talk about him "behind his back" here where he isn't aware of it.

Danu

Oh, meh.

Want me to ping him so he can see it?

It's not intended as talking behind the back---it's just that this is the only chat room at hand :P

John Duffield

@Danu : you might want to take a look at your comment above about CuriousOne's argumentative style...

Danu

8:49 PM

@JohnDuffield I guess I fail to see the irony. I'm acknowledging that he has a persuasive position, and agree with him on the physical aspects---I just try to bring some more subtlety in by pointing out that dissenting opinions are also possible.

CuriousOne clearly rejects this notion, and I think that that is indeed smug (and even arrogant, or willfully ignorant)

The fact that I come to this room to vent about this discussion (which is something most regulars do), doesn't imbue the situation with any irony as far as I can tell

DanielSank

@0celo7 In my experience, most (all?) of the existing books etc. regarding the Fourier transform suck.

Which is why I wrote a book on it (which I keep mentioning and promising to send to people, and then not doing it because it needs like one weekend of work to tie off loose ends).

Danu

@DanielSank You wrote a book on the Fourier transform? :P

DanielSank

@Danu Yes.

ACuriousMind

Why is that ':P' worthy?