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6:00 PM
@GlenH7 of course. Though I can't imagine preferring a bar to a dark room with a screen given a migraine.
 
@JimmyHoffa not at the hotel right now. though I will watch a couple more shows before anything else
 
user41796
some forms of migraines really don't respond well to the light coming off of a screen
 
got The Blacklist and a Grey's to watch today still
@JimmyHoffa pub
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa I'm going to go with a darkish room and a glass of yummy in hand
 
@PreferenceBean why are you hoteling it?
thought you were FT?
 
user41796
6:01 PM
@Ampt Isn't. Trip is done with IIRC
 
@Ampt I'm not
@Ampt FT?
 
Full time; not contractor or consultant
 
Yeah, I'm full time
Doesn't make me immune to hotels
 
css induced rage is soon to be upon me
 
@GlenH7 Were they trying to see how well they could do without you?
 
user41796
6:10 PM
Nah, they were giving everyone the afternoon off
 
Wonder how the dev team is doing, havent checked with them in a couple months... check Sonar report on CI server... 52k LOC and 4,102 issues
O_O
Close browser tab... delete all history
turn off lights in my office
 
user41796
That group had a product with a traditional release model. One of the ways they would reward us after a release would be to give everyone an afternoon off
 
sit there siliently
 
@maple_shaft I see you...
 
user41796
@maple_shaft Close your eyes, embrace the darkness. Then let the sound resonate within you: "Ommmmmmmmmm"
 
6:11 PM
@maple_shaft 4102 issues? wow
 
user41796
 
@GlenH7 why must companies insist on calling that sort of thing "opensourcing"?
grumble grumble
@maple_shaft lol
 
user41796
What? What's that? I'm too busy salivating over the goodies in their back catalog to think about those things.
 
Tactical Nuclear Penguin is nice
 
Oh, so like, actual fire drill.
 
6:17 PM
is it just me or is Adele hugely overrated?
 
user41796
No, no. Nothing was going to actually happen. But they were telling everyone to get out and not come back.
 
so much good new music right now and she gets HOW MANY brits?
sickening.
 
user41796
But sticking around and working for the afternoon was not an option
 
@GlenH7 I think that's real decent.
 
user41796
I agree. Was nice of them to recognize everyone's hard work to make the release happen on schedule
 
6:22 PM
This day is taking forever.
 
RAGE
I am like 100% sure this question has been asked before but I can't find the question/answer on stack overflow
 
a student's perspective: a professor who cares this much about me being late (as long as i'm not being disruptive) is not a professor i want to have, and certainly not a professor i respect. i'm paying a lot of money to attend your school. i will do what i want. you should respect my time. there are plenty of other classes i could take instead of dealing with you. — sgroves 19 hours ago
nine upvotes for this entitled little shit :smh:
 
@PreferenceBean Not paying enough to use capitals properly.
 
6:30 PM
There's always a qualitative element in grading, and professors who don't call you out for it will still probably penalize you for it.
 
even so, the professor that asked the question is a douche
 
Half the people who answered are douchey. It's Academia.
"I'll sue you for my tuition because I have a right to not show up when I feel like it and you can't fail me for that!!"
 
yep
 
I failed a student's code for using textspeak in her comments.
I'm that kind of douche.
 
It is my right to not show up when I don't feel like it if showing up is not specified in the syllabus as being important to the grade
 
6:33 PM
It's your "right" to talk at the cinema, too. Doesn't make you anything other than a big ****
Kids these days are far too interested in what their "rights" are
 
I don't know how you can think that not showing up is not related to the grade you get.
 
Think not about what you can do but what about you should do.
 
At FSU undergrad, I had two classes back to back. One at the Stadium at the far edge of campus, the other at the Law School off normal campus at the other end. That professor did not care that I was travelling as quickly as I could, he was consistently furious that I was late. He ignored me when I raised my hand. I did not earn an A in that class.
 
If you don't take the test, you fail it. It's not my problem if you didn't show up to learn.
@AaronHall Did you explain the travel problem to him?
 
Multiple times at length.
 
6:35 PM
And also. Law professor.
 
Well that's the other problem; professors being ****s
 
Important life lesson.
 
conclusion: everyone in academia is shit
 
Yeah. Leave the other class early.
 
I could have done without the credits.
 
6:36 PM
Also, don't schedule classes back-to-back when they are miles apart.
 
@KitZ.Fox: if I only show up for the tests and that's it, that's my right to choose to do so
 
I had no way of knowing that they were that far apart when I was registering.
 
@whatsisname which sacred document enshrines you with this "right"?
 
@whatsisname Oh sure. You're not doing yourself any favors, but I don't care.
 
@KitZ.Fox: a lot of times you don't know what room/building they'll be in until shortly before classes start
@PreferenceBean: the syllabus
 
6:36 PM
@whatsisname and which part of that "right" means you shouldn't fail the test that was given during the class you skipped?
 
You know during the drop/add period if you bother to go to class.
 
@AaronHall you learn stuff? That's 100% of the only thing that matters.
(that perspective did me no favors in school)
 
or, just don't schedule quizzes randomly because that's not what you're supposed to be doing
 
or don't expect to get rewards spoon-fed to you.
 
insisting that the professor layout the course in the syllabus is hardly demanding being spoon-fed
 
6:40 PM
@whatsisname who are you to dictate what the professor is "supposed" to be doing just so that you can entertain your "right" to skip class without any repercussions whatsoever?
 
I had maybe 2 or 3 classes where attendence factored into the grade, and they were all lib-eds
not a single class for the engineering school did anyone give a damn if you showed up or not
@PreferenceBean: the person paying the bills, that's who
 
shrugs doesn't sound like much of an education to me.
 
I have no leg to stand on in speaking regarding school practices. Never mind me
 
professors don't have absolute authority you know
the terms of the class and grading have to be fair and consistent, you know
 
I liked school. I was also frustrated by students who didn't think taking my classes was worthwhile.
 
6:41 PM
professors can't just say "I'm giving you an F because I think you're an asshole"
 
@whatsisname actually...
 
But there's a reason I don't teach anymore so.
 
s/can't/shouldn't/
 
mfw I realize Haskell is actually easier than imperative programming
 
well, unless they have evidence to show why the student should get an F they're going to have problems
BBL lunch
 
6:43 PM
@whatsisname they can give you an F for failing to meet the conditions of the course
if the conditions included "there will be a test in each lecture" then YOU GO TO EACH LECTURE
instead of pratting about in your dorm playing video games
pontificating about your "rights"
I don't care how much you your parents paid for entry to the school!
 
you're making some rather large and mildly derogatory assumptions there
 
user41796
@PreferenceBean IIRC he's paying his way through school. So he's a professional who went back and wanted to pick up the piece of paper.
 
I'm talking to the hypothetical general student, yeah
 
Yes, let's talk about Haskell instead.
 
and the bloke who wrote that comment on that Q
 
6:45 PM
Can you do OOP in Haskell?
 
user41796
In general, I agree with what you're saying. As a student, the point is to learn and being present in class helps. But circumstances differ by the individual.
 
@AaronHall that's like asking "Can you do assembly in OOP?" - the question doesn't really merit asking
 
I'm sure they do but then the individual needs to discuss that with the module convenor
special dispensation is normally available if you have a provable situation
 
@PreferenceBean you're also used to a very different education system than we have over here
 
6:47 PM
@JimmyHoffa Not derogatory at all. One of the hardest things about programming to me is getting stuck in index or recursion hell
 
@AaronHall in a sense you can, but so can you write assembly in OOP- would you though?
 
@JimmyHoffa it's the "kids stating their rights" thing that really bothers me
 
@maple_shaft I was referring to the above statement, not yours :)
 
@PreferenceBean entitlitis.
 
literally Haskell is the answer to all of my lifes problems
 
6:47 PM
@KitZ.Fox sactly
 
@maple_shaft I thought that was Lisp.
 
then people wonder why the world is falling apart
 
Looks like Haskell even supports multiple inheritance. Does it do C3 linearization?
 
It burns your coffee for you too
 
My life is an endless stream of definitions and expressions until i die when the value will just derives as 42 eventually. Everybody else is living by rules and following commands and changing themselves and their state of being
Other people contrain themselves to limitations of a state machine... I am limitless and boundless
 
6:49 PM
♪ roll a d6 ♫ roll a d6 ♪
 
@AaronHall it doesn't have subtypal inheritance
 
> Haskell also permits multiple inheritance, since classes may have more than one superclass. For example, the declaration

class (Eq a, Show a) => C a where ...

creates a class C which inherits operations from both Eq and Show.
 
The closest thing to type classes in OOP is interfaces; and do not continue the incorrect claim that multiple interfaces is multiple inheritance - an interface is implemented, not inherited. People confuse it as inheritance because it has the same syntax as inheritance in Java/C#/other languages
@AaronHall it creates an interface which implements both of those interfaces, different things
and interface isn't even the right term
either way, go learn Haskell. I encourage it; but looking at it from a light of OOP will just thoroughly confuse you the more you learn it
On the face I thought Haskell was just like Python when I first started meddling with it. As you dig deeper though if you try staying in that frame of reference you really will get confused because it's not at all the same
 
I can see how one might confuse it with Python. The syntax is similar
 
@AaronHall if you write a function that requires the Eq typeclass, and a data type implements the C typeclass you show there, then that function will be able to work against data of that type class. So will functions that require the Show type class. The function however does not exist inside of the type- Data and functions are isolated in Haskell, not combined as in OOP
 
6:58 PM
about to spend a fortune prebooking photo ops at C2E2. could get Melissa and Chyler, or them both together, or all three........ so expensive though
add Chloe Bennett on top of that
there is also Edward James Olmos and Mary McDonnell ahhhhh
 
@AaronHall also; Haskell has no reasonable way of casting from one type to another. There's no base type like "object" or any other such either.
 
screw it I'm not going on a sunny holiday this year. this is my treat.
$310.00 in the cart so far....
 
Excuse me, sir, I haven't yet received my scotch.
 
We'll be landing soon
 
@AaronHall here's the basis for much of Haskell:
System F, also known as the (Girard–Reynolds) polymorphic lambda calculus or the second-order lambda calculus, is a typed lambda calculus that differs from the simply typed lambda calculus by the introduction of a mechanism of universal quantification over types. System F thus formalizes the notion of parametric polymorphism in programming languages, and forms a theoretical basis for languages such as Haskell and ML. System F was discovered independently by logician Jean-Yves Girard (1972) and computer scientist John C. Reynolds (1974). Whereas simply typed lambda calculus has variables ranging...
 
7:06 PM
This is a good issue to talk about, but probably better on Programmers. — rickster 47 secs ago
 
$440 is only £317 so that's ok ;(
worth it lol
 
> ♫ and the men they Dance in the polka dots it's partner found it's partner lost hell to pay when the fiddler stops- It's Closing Time ♫
 
I wish Leonard Cohen didn't remind me of the big ex-.
 
So when I try to make an abstract base class out of my threading objects, is that called generic programming?
 
7:08 PM
@PreferenceBean When it says "team up", does that mean... You know, what? I don't need to know.
 
@AaronHall presuming that was /s
@KitZ.Fox then just go with my earlier listening selection instead
3 hours ago, by Jimmy Hoffa
> 4 4 4 for my headaches..
 
haha almost put it on the company card. can you imagine?
@KitZ.Fox ;p
 
huh now I'm scared I've done that before without realising
 
@PreferenceBean if you haven't gotten in trouble; no harm no foul.
 
7:10 PM
@PreferenceBean I can just imagine. ;D
 
er, plus $69.36 fees the cheeky buggers
£367 then
 
> Ah, bless their hearts.
 
or $509
their site is a bit broken :(
> Your order could not be processed!
> Reason: Order not found!
Sigh. And a minute ago I had to refresh the checkout page before the Countries dropdown would populate
 
So it seems that I didn't know how to MERGE back in 2011. I just got a new answer on a question I asked on SO: stackoverflow.com/a/35659674/677007 I can't decide if it actually answers my question.
Oh right, that was the quarter when we upgraded to MSSQL 2008 R2.
Wow, that brings me back.
 
HTML really is the ultimate example of 'negative productivity'
 
7:17 PM
> Your order has been placed and processed successfully.
:D:D
 
I'm reminded of the fastest gun in the west problem.
Way to go, old bean.
 
rocking it
and I was so close to paying off my credit card debt hehe
 
@KitZ.Fox key point to understand about the MERGE statement and why it's awesome: It's an atomic set operation, all alternatives would require you to manually begin and commit a transaction to maintain atomicity between checking for values and updating/inserting them
 
now another £68 for Gatecon banquet
I'm spending thousands on these two cons :$
 
We're going to have PyGotham at the UN (at least it's looking that way) and we're only charging around $200 or $300 a head.
 
7:23 PM
too bad they've taken off the "pay in GBP" option - their rates were great and I was saving a good tenner or so a pop on the last two component sales
ugh, haven't been charged for either of the hotels yet either
got a decent seat at Gatecon tho
 
Next to an outlet?
:)
 
pfft
the only way the seat could be better is it if were smack bang in the horizontal centre of a block, so I'd (theoretically) never have anyone clambering over me to get out. but being "free" myself is easily superior
 
Oh, yeah, big spender, I forgot.
:)
 
I don't even want to calculate how much I'm spending on these trips in total
 
user55340
This just in, @RobertHarvey is an old goat.
2
 
user55340
7:31 PM
Off topic, but I just noticed you're the Greatest of All Time on this website. I just talked to the G.O.A.T. Wow. Thanks for the info man. — J Doe 35 mins ago
 
I'm still using a laptop I got back at the end of 2010 for $608 delivered with a 7200 rpm 1/2 terabyte harddrive, 6 GB RAM, dual-core processer, and back-lit keyboard. I've replaced the battery, keyboard, the cover (with power button), the fan, and the hard-drive. The machine is an old beast, but it looks cool.
 
It's the same laptop, if that's what you're getting at.
That's an amortized cost of around $12 a month! Woo hoo! :D
I manage to make it the rest of the year, that's $10 a month.
make it another 2 years, that's $8 a month!
 
7:51 PM
keep it for infinity and it's free!
 
@enderland I got a shirt and nothing else
I was supposed to get way more
 
I have not been at my desk for more than 3 consecutive minutes for the last 3 hours
oops.
 
@PreferenceBean asymptotically correct, but now I think you're being a little ridiculous as this piece of hardware is approaching the end of its expected useful life.
 
@AaronHall oh... I didn't think about that :(
My PC is about that old and it's still working fine. Never replaced anything in it
mind you I pretty much only use it for web, mail, TV, Spotify and Excel nowadays
 
hopes no one picks up on the fact that he's a little ridiculous all the time
 
8:06 PM
they definitely won't now that it's on the starboard
 
Hey that's not quite true, I was told by presenting on the call (see recording from earlier) I helped in adding credibility.
 
wags finger importantly
 
s/importantly/nasally/
right, time for me to go a-wonderin
 
user41796
@PreferenceBean have a round or five and kiss the migraine goodbye.
 
8:13 PM
@GlenH7 hope so!
see you soon for my weekly MOBILE WEB CHAT UI BETA EXPERIENCE
 
user41796
sed s/week/dai/
 
now only US$509.99
 
it's crazy when you get an exception in ASP.NET and the call stack is like 9001 levels deep
quite a bit a ways away from the metal
 
@PreferenceBean shouldn't you be at the pub
 
8:29 PM
Don't drink alone - that's what they say, anyways.
 
who says that?
 
This question is probably better suited for programmers stackexchange: programmers.stackexchange.comDan Orlovsky 59 secs ago
 
@Ampt PRESENT
@Shog9 mobile chat beta is AMAZING
plz2makeitnonbeta
 
@PreferenceBean thank you!
I had NOTHING to do with it.
So I'm happy to take credit.
 
Excellent!
 
8:45 PM
@Shog9 losers do, obviously
 
I'm drinking alone right now. In a meeting with 8 other people.
 
see, you're not alone
you're just the only one smart enough to drink
 
user114359
I feel like Duga is about to quote me...
 
@Snowman I don't think it's just a feeling.
 
user114359
@PreferenceBean I like Duga is ignoring me. Maybe it has a blacklist of users who know better?
 
user114359
@AaronHall I've read that before, it is full of butthurt by people who don't understand how to use C++. These are the same people who try to write procedural code in functional languages.
 
oh the "FQA", that always felt like people being dicks for the sake of being dicks to me
 
hmmm, one of those then
 
@Snowman Or those who don't :)
 
The first time I read "super considered harmful" I didn't follow the guy, but I figured he must have a good reason for writing it. The last time I read it, I realized the guy actually didn't understand what he was talking about. And then I saw a talk given by Raymond Hettinger where he called the guy out for not knowing what he was talking about.
 
8:58 PM
@Ixrec I agree. Shame they're almost entirely correct.
C++ is a mess. I've actually mostly stopped following it as of C++14, and it's my main specialty.
.... I should change that.
Though maybe this comes back to the "don't give a c#nting cr#p about software development any more" thing..
 
probably
C++ is a mess, almost objectively so, but learning all the minutiae has always been fairly pointless; the useful non-redundant non-esoteric subset of C++14 has a lot going for it imo
not that we'll ever agree on what that subset is, but I believe it exists
 
probably
I used to enjoy that argument
now I'll just say yes whatever you are right all hail Ixrec *hic*
hmmm mobile chat ui beta needs a way to star your own messages
 
nowadays people seem more interested in whether Go or Rust or something else can displace that semi-mythical good-parts-of-C++ language
 
they always were imo just that group is growing
I hate to say it but now that I know Python can be trivially compiled it's quite attractive to me
 
I don't know shit about C++ but from my perspective; any language that doesn't have a robust standard library to begin with already failed. When most of the things you need to write an application rely on 3rd party libraries you end up having compatibility issues between each one and each picking it's own base "standard" lib that competes with your other 3rd party dependencies required base "standard" lib...
 
9:05 PM
the alternatives are stronger too imo
 
not for big systems of course but for lots of things
@JimmyHoffa it does though
 
@JimmyHoffa C++ comes from an era when big standard libraries weren't a thing yet, I believe Java popularized that
 
user114359
There is a lot of crappy legacy C++ code out there that sucks to maintain. But new C++ programs using new language features and idioms are quite nice to work with.
 
C++ has tried cleaning this up it sounds like, but I'm just saying for any language to evolve without a standard library will end up with an utterly fractious ecosystem...
 
so in practice anyone trying to use C++ needs to have a list of libraries they like too
 
9:05 PM
@JimmyHoffa granted half of it is "de facto" standard via Boost but speaking practically that's honestly just as good
 
user114359
@JimmyHoffa C++ is an ancient language, the austerity of its standard library is what prompted environments such as .NET and Java to provide rich standard libraries
 
if more people used standard features the world would be a better place
 
Python is correct.
 
@PreferenceBean I mean the alternatives that are actually systems languages are much stronger these days; for a while it was C++ vs VM and scripting languages
 
he said importantly
 
9:06 PM
@Ixrec don't attribute that to java; it's earlier than that. I understand C++'s age is a factor in it's troubles, I'm just speaking from a language and ecosystem perspective
I just see not having a robust standard library as basically a death knell (for any language, not C++ specific)
 
@Snowman It's a weird one. In principle I agree with C++ not providing a monolithic stdlib that panders to "what a desktop PC is right now today". In practice there's a reason Java and .NET are so popular, and that's increasingly difficult to ignore.
 
it's definitely a serious problem, I'd only write something in C++ if I was willing to go through all the effort of vetting open source libraries for each non-trivial subtask I shouldn't have to rewrite myself
 
@Ixrec Gotcha and I'd like to start playing with those alternatives. Or I mean I would if I still cared uh huh whatever
 
user114359
@PreferenceBean I am fine with omitting e.g. GUI libraries but stuff like a TCP/IP stack and the ancillary classes to go along with it are fairly core to any modern language
 
SmallTalk had a robust standard applications library. I want to say Eiffel did as well, so too did CLISP
 
user114359
9:09 PM
Same with threading primitives, which are finally standard as of C++11
 
The nerdgasm technical principles underlying C++'s stability and deliberate platform agnosticism seem harder and harder to justify nowadays, and I find that difficult to admit so you'd better appreciate it
@Snowman see networking I'm on the fence. I suppose in this day and age. it's just so ... prescriptive. C++ was never supposed to pander to any implementation
 
@PreferenceBean oh, since we've got you finally feeling defeated and vulnerable, can I interest you in a monoid? Would you like to accept Haskell into your home, and into your heart?
 
mind you they're doing that so much with their absurd dalliances into script-language-like constructs that they might as well now
and, well, they are
so there you go
@JimmyHoffa I'm not quite that far gone.
 
I'm not sure how networking involves "pandering to any implementation" as long as it's cross-platform, it's not like IP/HTTP/etc have any serious competitors
 
@PreferenceBean you'll get there.. give it time... let the weariness seep into your bones..
 
9:12 PM
@Snowman a memory model that allows for effective use of a multicore system seems FAR more relevant to me than FS and networking
@Ixrec butttttttttt
 
agreed, real concurrency support is more important than FS and networks
 
@Ixrec meh
 
but FS and networks are still extremely relevant to real-world application development
back when I wrote code in my spare time I had to wrap filesystem calls constantly
 
C++ has lasted because it doesn't age as tech changes. it's abstracted away from being affected by (accurate) statements like "IP/HTTP is all there is nowadays"
but since even "novelty" applications nowadays pass that assertion it is indeed getting harder to justify that stubborn stoicism.
oh well
 
Any of my Java brethren used a JCR before?
 
9:15 PM
I honestly don't understand that statement, in what way does not having a standard IP/HTTP library make the C++ language "abstracted away" from being affected by IP/HTTP?
 
@Ampt the ones who implemented probably gave a spin once or twice
 
since we're talking about libraries as opposed to core language syntax
and the concurrency thing seems like a good example of C++ changing as tech changes
 
@PreferenceBean never use your own software. That's the first rule of Java
 
user114359
@Ixrec I think the idea is if C++ had classes for TCP (connect to URL, open stream, etc) and we changed to some new protocol that C++ would be left with obsolete libraries. By not having any networking libraries, it is immune to obsolescence in that regard. But I would argue that not having a library for the de facto worldwide networking protocol makes C++ obsolete.
 
9:21 PM
@Snowman this
that's what I was trying to say :)
 
yeah, that seems entirely the wrong way around to me
even for a systems language
 
It's ok, @GlenH7 will be around with refreshments any minute. Just enjoy the ride
 
neither do I
 
@Ixrec so you're writing Haskell too?
 
@Ixrec well at least they're trying now
 
9:24 PM
yep
 
I hate to say it but they need corporate backing. and I don't just mean the committee floor being dominated by industry representatives
when ever job going is for Oracle, Sun, Microsoft, Google technologies, it's a clear statement
 
ok, I want to write about Python for the blog, but I'm totally not sure what to talk about.
 
programming isn't for hobbyists and purists any more. it's the fabric of reality
like how the internet has hugely evolved in structure and governance
we're not in the 90s any more kids!
 
@PreferenceBean what company in it's right mind would back C++? Honestly. Look at it from the perspective of a corporation; that can only go poorly for them, especially when you consider the culture of much of the C++ landscape which would virulently fight against any such thing
 
@AaronHall write about for..else.. and about how default argument value scope is broken
 
9:27 PM
The only thing a corporate backer would do is come up with C+++
 
@JimmyHoffa now that you mention it, that is extremely true
 
def foo(a, b=[]):
   b.append(a)
   return b

print foo(3)
print foo(4)
run that
 
You want me to write about scope and how everything you think you know is wrong?
Well for that I'd be writing about the execution model
Don't use mutable default arguments if you don't understand how they work.
 
but the reality is every corporation working in C++ already has their own twisted form of C++ because it requires you to reconstruct much of it and it's ecosystem before really creating any large scale applications... you can't fork C++, it's already a thousand headed hydra
 
wow formatting that was not easy
 
9:30 PM
I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it's a better fit for Programmers.SE — kolossus 29 secs ago
 
and you thought I wouldn't be able to work in Python hehehe
@JimmyHoffa but... but.. hail hydra! :sniff:
 
@AaronHall being genuine, you ever looked into Haskell at all seriously?
 
@JimmyHoffa couldn't agree more, we have our own everything-C++-should-have-but-doesn't mega-library where I work
 
I think you could, but if you tell an interviewer you're not confident, I'd rather not have intro'd you in the first place.
 
yeah I'm kidding
that was last month
 
9:31 PM
@JimmyHoffa it's one of my top new languages to learn, next to C and JS.
 
admittedly said mega-library also covers a bunch of things that only make sense in our legacy code
 
mesa now python and pygtk expert yo
 
like converting from our legacy proprietary multi-byte text encoding format that predates Unicode to UTF-8
 
@AaronHall not sure if serious... you were joking earlier about that "generic" programming jab, right?
 
I'm learning the terminology
it wasn't a jab.
 
9:32 PM
@AaronHall oh! Sorry. No, generic programming refers to a specific thing, namely "parametric polymorphism" - or what is in Java/C# called "generics"
 
haha
.. "Haskell" "seriously" seriously?
 
There are shops that do Haskell all day long.
 
When reading these conversations, mentally replace the word "Haskell" with "Meth" and they start making sense.
5
 
think back to mathematical terms a lot when looking at Haskell. For something to be "general" means that it works across a set of scenarios. A generic class in C#/Java provides functionality across anything you put within it's generic type parameter. In Java/C# there's also "generic type constraints" which refers to it being generalized to a set. If not constrained, "generic" or "general" refers to working across all scenarios
 
9:35 PM
ha
 
Haskell has type constraints to, so if I write a function min :: (Ordered a) => a -> a -> a it would be said to be "generalized for all ordered types"
 
@AaronHall Haskell shops?
 
it does; it has a great deal more generic flexibility than the Java/C# stuff I'm referencing above, just trying to give a frame of reference
 
user114359
@Shog9 obligatory xkcd:
 
user114359
9:38 PM
 
> Excuse me; I'd like some Haskell, please.
> Certainly, sir.
 
I know people who only do Haskell.
 
user114359
I am so grateful that Haskellhead across the street got arrested. He could have blown up his house, reducing my property value.
 
it's so generic that it needs esoterica like "the monomorphism restriction" to help decide what to do when you are insufficiently precise in your genericness
 
@AaronHall it's biggest in financial places so that's not surprising
@Ixrec true, but GHC let's you turn it off and cross your fingers :)
 
9:40 PM
I don't know people at my firm who are doing it though - I just go to a lot of meetups and talks regarding languages I'm interested in, and I meet people there.
 
Which is like saying C++ lets you turn on pointer arithmetic. Nothing could go wrong!
maybe reinterpret_cast would be a better analogy
 
There was a talk about metaclasses in Common LISP (CLOS) at an OCaml meetup.
and it turns out (I had to Google it myself) that CLOS has the C3 linearization algorithm as an option.
 
I know, I saw the smiley face
 
Where? @enderland is still here??
@AaronHall one of the things about these types of implementation concepts is that because Haskell is lazy to the bone, many implementation features of other languages don't make sense or apply to it. Also, dispatch to the correct implementation function etc in Haskell is found at compile time by impredicative logic
Intuitionistic type theory (also known as constructive type theory, or Martin-Löf type theory) is a type theory and an alternative foundation of mathematics based on the principles of mathematical constructivism. Intuitionistic type theory was introduced by Per Martin-Löf, a Swedish mathematician and philosopher, in 1972. Martin-Löf has modified his proposal a few times; his 1971 impredicative formulation was inconsistent as demonstrated by Girard's paradox. Later formulations were predicative. He proposed both intensional and extensional variants of the theory. For more detail see the section...
look at Algorithm W here:
In type theory and functional programming, Hindley–Milner (HM) (also known as Damas–Milner or Damas–Hindley–Milner) is a classical type system for the lambda calculus with parametric polymorphism, first described by J. Roger Hindley and later rediscovered by Robin Milner. Luis Damas contributed a close formal analysis and proof of the method in his PhD thesis. Among HM's more notable properties is completeness and its ability to deduce the most general type of a given program without the need of any type annotations or other hints supplied by the programmer. Algorithm W is a fast algorithm,...
which leads me directly back to
28 mins ago, by Jimmy Hoffa
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