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6:00 PM
80+ Gold rating, tested efficiency around 87% at 200w output
So yeah, you're likely drawing around 190-200w if it's taking 225w from the wall.
 
that's not bad, in a world where a car that can convert 50% of the energy in gasoline into motive power would be incredible and practically unprecedented
 
(My UPS would be drawing 275w from the wall if the PSU drew 225w from the UPS -_-)
It's not bad, but I'm surprised your idle power is so high.
In any case, it's like 10-20% extra heat from your system simply as a result of power conversion losses.
 
it's a trap! :P my idle power includes the monitor
 
Oh.
 
Close with the monitors!
 
6:02 PM
@qasdfdsaq online topology?
 
My extremely power hungry overclocked X58 system still only took 170w at idle, modern mainstream systems typically take 50-100w.
@allquixotic Nah, just quite an old line-interactive model.
TBH my ancient Logitech speakers take 15w while off and 40w on idle.
 
mine is line-interactive but I recall looking it up and finding that it was posted to Amazon in like 2012
should be pretty decent
 
@qasdfdsaq Ayup. Got 150W draw on my X58 (well 135W now after GPY graphics card update) and 40-50W from my skylake
 
@qasdfdsaq HP's top-of-the-line gaming desktop ships with a 600W PSU.
 
@bwDraco That sounds quite reasonable.
 
6:04 PM
I wonder, if you absolutely max out the enthusiast Alienware box, what PSU they give it
 
600w is really all you need for most high-end gaming systems, before you get into "extreme" territory.
 
oh, wow
 
By "extreme" I mean tri-SLI+ or liquid nitrogen class cooling.
 
the Alienware Area 51 probably goes way overboard with their PSUs then
the base model is 850W (for one GPU), and the upsell models are all 1500W, no matter how many GPUs they have
 
Lmao. Yeah that's the ridiculous level of overspeccing me and Hennes were complaining about
 
6:06 PM
1200W would probably be sufficient even for their triple SLI configuration
 
Remember upper-mid-range GPUs take about 150w, and the most power hungry single-GPUs about 250w.
Things like the 980 Ti, Titan, Fury X, are around 250w, maybe 300w peak.
Average usage would be more like 200w each, especially in SLI.
 
the 300W Peak would be more on the AMD side than the Nvidia side this generation, AFAIK
 
250W is max allowed from PCI-e standards
 
Nah, what most people don't know is actually the peak power on Nvidia and AMD cards is about the same.
 
@Hennes It's 300W using a 6-pin and an 8-pin connector.
 
6:08 PM
The GTX 970/980 actaully peak at the same ~280w or so as the AMD 290x, when you actually push it
 
are we talking Furmark peaks?
 
But use something like 100w less during gaming.
@allquixotic Yeah, basically.
 
@Hennes With a single 8-pin connector, yes. But most high-end cards have two
 
OK. I thought it was max..
 
6:09 PM
six-pin connectors are rated at 75w, 8-pin at 150w. PCIe slot itself is 75w. So 375w if you have two 8-pin connectors + 75w from the slot.
 
@qasdfdsaq so does AMD rate their TDPs a bit more aggressively towards being maxed out, while Nvidia aims for the typical Battlefield 4 player?
 
@allquixotic Sorta. Nvidia cards just have much better throttling, power gating, etc.
 
Some cards go past that by using two 8-pin connectors for a maximum of 375 W but that's not presently allowed by the PCIe standard..
 
I want a GPU that draws 500W while playing Star Citizen :D and a bigger connector instead of needing like 4 8-pins
 
Basically if a game only uses 60% of the functionality on a card, NVidia switches off the other 40% dynamically, whereas AMD doesn't. Although the latest Fury generation improves that a lot on AMD's side.
 
6:12 PM
AMD did decide to break the rules on the R9 295X2, pulling 500 W over two eight-pin connectors.
 
o_O
didn't hear about that
 
Pretty much all dual-GPU cards use >250w power.
 
in that case, I'm eager to see the Fury X2
 
You'll need heavy gauge cabling from the PSU for this to work.
 
6:13 PM
you know what would be awesome? if the Fury X2 launched with 16 GB of HBM2 (8 GB per GPU core)
 
now that you say it, I need to check my PSU's specs
 
since they delayed it, they may as well! :P
 
That's a high-precision trace of the power draw of a GTX 980 during gaming. You can see it regularly peaks above 250, sometimes over 300w.
 
I have been looking at that "Gemini" project for 6 month now as a potential upgrade
 
It dynamically changes power extremely quickly, so the average ends up about 150, but in reality it still has >300w peak power
 
6:14 PM
@qasdfdsaq ahh... momentary spikes... I guess most of the ratings we see in our typical applications are sample averaged over several seconds
 
That's really where NVidia's "efficiency" advantage comes from over last-gen AMD cards.
 
@qasdfdsaq what about AMD ZeroCore tech that's been around since Evergreen (HD5970 era)?
 
ZeroCore really only applies to when the screen is completely off. It's not a clock gating technology.
 
I think my 1200W platinum will pribably be able to deal with it and the cables should be good enough :D
 
That's what a GTX 980 looks like at 100% synthetic load (e.g. furmark)
 
6:17 PM
@qasdfdsaq Assuming I stay with a single GPU configuration, would I save significant energy by upgrading to this?
I mean the 860i
stupid Amazon linked the 1200
 
Lol. I have the 860i I think.
And tbh, the difference wouldn't be huge, no. 10w idle power difference, maybe.
 
so I could remove a wall wart from a power strip somewhere and save that 10w instead ;p
 
So that's a R9 Nano power consumption trace in a torture test, not hugely different to the NVidias
Well actually the Nano is a lot lower. Dunno why I picked that card.
 
@Boris_yo They're artist quality water colour pencils? And there's 120 of them?
 
Urgh. Couldn't find a decent chart cause Tomshardware is just full of spammy adverts now.
So yeah, the whole AMD vs. NVidia power efficiency debate really just comes down to clever power gating during non-100% load.
Also Titan Z at 410w... wtf
Evidently you could run three Titan-Z's with your 1200w PSU :-P
Jesus, the Fury X idles at less than 5w power.
My GTX 970 uses 45w at the desktop o_0
 
6:30 PM
the 860i is on a 21% sale though o.o
 
@allquixotic But you bought the AX1200 so you'd never have to worry about putting too much load on it :-P
 
......................true -_-
 
I personally never upgrade or replace a PSU unless it's actually broken.
 
@qasdfdsaq Does the CLLC pump slow down or turn off when idle?
 
The only reason I got the hx860i is I thought my previous one was broken.
@bwDraco Apparently not. But it's a low power pump
> AMD’s Radeon R9 Fury X meets our lofty expectations. On the one hand, HBM consumes a lot less power than GDDR5.
On the other, there's a pump and a larger fan that need to be taken into consideration. Their combined consumption shouldn’t be much lower than 2W, though. In light of this, the 4.8W we measure is a fantastic result. And it holds up even when we connect more than one monitor. AMD has finally taken care of this anachronism, which was long overdue. The end result comes in well under Nvidia's reference GeForce GTX 980 Ti as well.
 
6:34 PM
@allquixotic though, there is this one thing - Star Citizen has been having interesting times
they dont actually have any project managers left, that have ever completed a large project
 
Oh I never noticed KSP changed to radar altimeter on the main display
 
I know! They should recruit Peter Fucking Molyneux! Yeah! He'll do just greeeeat.
 
And here I was constantly switching to my IVA cockpit view to check radar altitude while landing.
 
and, as much as developer harbor a disdain for the project managers, when your project managers begin flopping about like beached fish, the project goes to shit
 
I'm spending way too much fiddling with the settings in ROCCAT Swarm. The customization options available with a modern high-end keyboard are just mind-boggling.
 
6:51 PM
Hi
Remember that post about Google shafting Windows Phone I made yesterday? Surprisingly I have received no downvotes. Expected at least some
+10.
 
7:15 PM
Got a link? I can downvote it for you
 
8:00 PM
@BenRichards I don't have an account there so I'm not going to vote in either direction, but my takeaway from that is that it sucks - hard - to be a Windows Phone user, which is unfortunate for those users that corporate politics gets in the way, but I think Microsoft and Google are, even in the present day, equally guilty of "being evil" (anti-consumer in favor of profit motive ideology).
To try and hold Microsoft blameless while lambasting Google is to ignore the decades of bad practices Microsoft has done, plus the Windows 10 "recommended updates", "telemetry" gathering enabled by default and still collecting even if you fully opt-out using the UI, etc.
They're large corporations. Corporations aren't people. Their executives exist solely to figure out what they have to do to get a bigger paycheck/bonus next year. If that means exploiting users and locking out their competitors, they're going to do it, even if it's in a very legal gray area.
As a consumer, you're in a school of fish and there are whales and sharks all around just eager to nom you up. If you don't want to get eaten by the big fish, your only option is to go live in a pond somewhere. If you're in the ocean, you're going to lose. Period.
And that means "pro-Google", "pro-Microsoft" or "pro-Apple" (or Amazon, or Adobe, or any of the other big players in the space) consumers are basically saying, "I prefer to be eaten by that particular shark over there! :D"
For me, though, if I'm going to lose, I'd rather lose in a way that isn't constantly vexing from day to day, with Android's endless slew of bugs, bloatware, UI lag and annoyances, or WP's perennial unavailability of apps, slow updates, and being given the shaft by Google plus many other big players. At least with iOS, I'm "only" losing by grossly over-paying for my hardware and probably getting my data scooped up by the NSA, plus having to go through contortions to install unsanctioned apps.
And those 3 problems aren't really a problem outside of a few specific times: when I bought the phone, the $1k I paid was painful; if I ever do something that the government deems worth arresting me for in the future, having my phone used as evidence against me will hurt a lot; and I've only needed to install an unsanctioned app once, and I did it by compiling it using Xcode and pushing it.
Ouch one-off, possible (but not guaranteed) future mega-ouch, and once-in-a-blue-moon minor ouch... but nothing that's irritating from day to day. I can live with that. Plus, the twice-monthly (approx.) security updates to keep malicious actors other than the Five Eyes from stealing my data/identity, and I'm sitting pretty.
Relatively speaking. :P
 
8:45 PM
Per-key RGB backlighting is more than just for gaming.
(cc @allquixotic)
Keyboard's currently set to do this on pressing either Control key.
Basically, it's programmed to dim all the keys except those commonly encountered in keyboard shortcuts, which are lit in alternative colors.
 
@bwDraco The Fn key is in the wrong place ;) It should be between left-ctrl and windows
 
@DavidPostill It takes the place of the functionally redundant right Windows key.
 
@bwDraco The right windows key is not redundant. It allows a right click without using the mouse.
 
I've honestly never seen an application which distinguishes between the two.
Control, Alt, and Shift keys, sure, but not the Windows keys.
The Fn key can be remapped back to RWIN in ROCCAT Swarm if needed.
 
@DavidPostill My stock standard HP keyboard has the exact same layout.
 
8:56 PM
@bwDraco On my (laptop) keyboard the Fn key does funky things like zoom, volume control, ... and I'm used to it being on the left.
 
My laptop actually has it on the right.
It takes the place of the Menu key, which is not ideal.
One question: Why are the keycaps on mechanical keyboards so much taller than the ones on membrane keyboards?
 
@DavidPostill The right windows key doesn't allow right clicking without a mouse. The right right click key allows right clicking without a mouse. The windows key opens the Windows menu...
 
Whatever. bwDraco knew what I was talking about.
@qasdfdsaq It's not called the right click key either. It's called the Menu key or Application key.
 
9:14 PM
@DavidPostill Still close than calling it a Windows key.
And I call it a context menu key but w/e.
 
@qasdfdsaq I apologise for my lack of precise terminology. I will try harder next time ...
2
 
@DavidPostill You said that last time.
 
@qasdfdsaq I didn't say I would succeed ;)
 
9:28 PM
@DavidPostill Pretty sure this was Anakin Skywalker's favourite line.
"I'm sorry, Master." "I'll try harder, Master."
 
@MichaelFrank LOL. I'm not a star-wars fan so I wouldn't know. And I'm definitely not going to call @qasdfdsaq "Master" ;)
 
9:43 PM
@allquixotic, @Bob
in JavaScript on Stack Overflow Chat, 1 min ago, by Zirak
@rlemon master branch is using browserify, god help us all.
 
So in your opinion, how useful is this highlighting?
 
@bwDraco Well, if you can't touch type, and need to type in the dark, probably pretty useful.
 
I can touch-type. The idea is to make shortcut keys easier to find.
 
But your fingers don't have eyes!
...unless they do? o.O
 
Bob
10:26 PM
@MichaelFrank Wasn't there a children's book with that?
 
Ahh! Real Monsters! Had a guy who held his eyes in his hands.
Pan's Labyrinth also had a similar creature
 
Bob
Emily Eyefinger is a series of children's books written by Duncan Ball and illustrated by Craig Smith. They are about a girl who was born with an eye on the end of her finger. Emily Eyefinger (Simon & Schuster Books for Young Readers, 1992) Emily Eyefinger, Secret Agent (Simon & Schuster Books for Young Readers, 1993) Emily Eyefinger and the Lost Treasure (Simon & Schuster Books for Young Readers, 1994) Emily Eyefinger and the Black Volcano (Angus & Robertson, 2000) Emily Eyefinger's Alien Adventure (Angus & Robertson, 2001) Emily Eyefinger and the Devil Bones (HarperCollins, 2002) Emily Eyefinger...
lol
 
11:22 PM
That's kinda creepy.
 
11:55 PM
Good morning
@bwDraco cause they're removable and fit over a post
and in theory, you can swap them as you like.
@allquixotic this is precisely why I try to make my hardware and software choices pragmatically, rather than ideologically
Also, good morning
 
Good woofing
 
TPPA was signed here this morning... This is the current traffic situation:
 
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