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7:01 PM
our DBA team is obnoxious
 
@enderland s\our DBA team is\DBA teams are\g
Bad enough when you've got one, but then they form a team?
 
@Ampt which is weird, because they abhor human contact to begin with.
 
@JimmyHoffa They prefer the ultra-efficient communication form that is SQL
FROM greetings SELECT *;
Their form of hypnosis is SQL injection.
They rank all their peers so that they can quickly evaluate them later.
 
SQL injection is as far into drug-taking territory as DBAs need to venture.
 
@Ampt I asked them a question, "was there an update? we lost some production systems" and they requested me to create a ticket to ask. wat.
 
7:12 PM
@enderland FROM updates SELECT -1; would have done it
 
@Ampt bah, they prefer the efficient communication form known as not communicating. They have mastered a delicate procedure known as scaring-swearing-and-chairring to ensure communication with them doesn't occur
 
New DBAs aren't created, they just migrate old tables into new servers.
@TMN I uh... just got this.
 
This'd probably be a good Programmers.SE, question, btw. — Lightness Races in Orbit 11 secs ago
 
ok someone go yell at that guy
he clearly has no clue what he's doing
 
I think that person wants a "help me code this" rather than "help me design this"
 
7:23 PM
(I was being sarcastic)
 
ahhh... manually hacking around at data right in production. Life is grand. Sometimes I hate many things. So many things.
 
are you leaving an audit trail at least?
 
no cuz then they can blame him
 
user55340
0
A: Clickbait titles, their metaphor posts and what to do with them

Corbin MarchLet's handle this case-by-case using existing tools versus establishing another informal meta-rule. Things I've considered: Deciding what's clickbait or not is a subjective call best handled case-by-case. Deciding which metaphors are productive or not is subjective. This meta-rule would be easi...

 
user55340
So, what is your stance on croissants rather than a scheduling algorithm, aliens (and the dancing of bees) rather than 'how many code points are in Unicode', and horses and unicorns rather than a question about subtypes? How easy is it to identify the 'what this is about' from the title and summary? How easy is it to search? How relevant are the answers? — MichaelT 16 mins ago
 
7:33 PM
@Ixrec I'm doing the needful... an audit trail just indicates somebody did a thing which no one was supposed to do but people always end up needing to do - and if you look to closely you'll end up with meetings and beauracracy making the needful harder to do, more painful, and all problems because the needful isn't getting done becoming bigger.
...which results in more meetings about the needful and less of the needful getting done and bigger problems. The best way to make a problem bigger is show it to a bunch of people. Instead of solving it you'll end up with cameras aimed at it as everyone watches in horror to terrified to do anything.
I bought a brand new bottle of cynic pills this weekend.
 
this reminds me of a discussion on our company's internal IM network the other day where one guy was saying he needs to manually edit files in production all the time because that's the business requirement and another guy was trying to tell him there must be some way to replace those risky operations with a database owned by a microservice that ensures only the right kinds of writes are ever executed and avoids the need for that guy to keep getting special access to prod machines all the time
 
@JimmyHoffa Clearly your dealer has a supply line on the good stuff...
 
@Ixrec While solutions like that are great, you have to sometimes recognize when a problem that - bandied about blithely - will result in the problem becoming larger, more complex, and less solved. Not all problems are of such nature, but depending on the bureaucracy you work in, there may be some where the process would rather open the wound up like a surgical team just to watch it bleed rather than fixing it.
 
this speaks to a fear of one's own management that I am extremely lucky to not have in my own company
 
if I lost access to prod machines, I would just end up wasting more time writing documentation, and waiting for people to execute on that documentation because while I've brought up automation practices numerous times, I just get kind of head nods with "We don't have time for that"
 
7:40 PM
interesting, but rather off-topic for SO, better on sqa.stackexchange.com or programmers.stackexchange.com, maybe with some editing to reduce subjectivity. — Dan Cornilescu 25 secs ago
 
though where I work we generally escalate problems to a specific individual rather than some kind of committee, so that probably helps
 
so the solution for such things here would be more process so things are fixed more slowly
 
incidentally, the status quo here is that anyone can get read-only access to any prod machine at any time, but to get write access you need manager approval
and executing a single shell command or SQL query is much easier to get permission for than a full-blown terminal window, thus far I've never seen anyone on my team need the latter
 
@Ixrec everything I've heard makes your place sound rather pleasant
 
they have earned my loyalty
 
7:44 PM
@JimmyHoffa do you work for a primarily software dev place though? I feel like you mustn't given how few devs your company has
 
I had that happen once. Unfortunately it was in the worst place to live in the US, and I had to go. Now I wish I had stayed on remotely after moving which they said would be a possibility...
 
one advantage of employer++ is that they are a SaaS place, which means devs are their primary value creation
 
my company does put a lot of effort into being an attractive workplace for progammers, to the point that we've sponsored multiple hackathons and deliberately built some of our offices in the same neighborhoods that Google/Facebook/etc built theirs
which I find a bit funny
 
@enderland this is the first time I don't... they want to be and think they are but.. not really. Which is the biggest irritation I have here. It's a lax place and I get to do things as I please largely, lots of good things about it. Very disorienting however being in an org whose primary focus isn't software construction/maintenance
 
@Ixrec I can't decide how I feel about hackathons, I know how I feel about weekend ones..
@JimmyHoffa ahhh, yeah. I'm really curious the environment change I'll experience in going from IT cost center to engineering profit center
 
7:47 PM
I have no interest in hackathons personally, it's just an example of the stuff my company is doing to "brand itself as a technology company" or whatever the phrase is
 
@enderland I feel like they're a great way for college kids to try and build a portfolio and have fun / network
@enderland beware, just because software is the product of a company doesn't mean they see engineering as a "profit" center. I've worked places before that saw it as a cost center because they don't actually sell the product. Marketing, sales, CSRs, those people bring in revenue while the software people only create/work on the product. You can cut software people and still bring in revenue so ... it's one perspective I've seen businesses take.
Deeply flawed imo but it is a perspective some places employ...
 
@JimmyHoffa I don't think this place will, it's not in a big enough population center realistically to have that attitude and not basically sign their death warrant
 
@enderland being that it's a SaaS and what you've described so far, I suspect you're right.
 
and if not, they've brainwashed my friends into thinking it's a nice place to work so hey where's the coolaid!
 
if I ever got that vibe from a company I'd probably run like the wind
that's just so a$$-backwards a way of looking at software development
 
8:04 PM
I have multi-variable inputs and multiple outputs. I want to minimize how many inputs I need to reach the desired outputs. What kind of math is that?
like 1X creates 3A, 2B, 8D and 1Y creates 1A, 5C and I want 5A, 5B, 5C, 5D
I know it's a thing - I just don't know the name
 
uh...solving a system of linear equations?
 
Linear equations, that's it
 
cool
 
I just needed the starting point so I can look up my old notes
hmmmm I'm not sure that's what I need actually, since I have multiple variables on both sides of the equation?
unless... ah nevermind, I remember now
each line would be different output
 
the general rule of thumb is if you have n variables, then you need n equations to determine a unique solution for the system
 
8:10 PM
and I need to use inequalities
@Ixrec Each equation will be a different type out output so I should be good
since I have more outputs than inputs
 
cool
 
hmmmm am I going to need calculus of some sort because I'm trying to minimize my inputs?
gah this is all starting to come back to me.
 
if you're after the minimum value of a solution space that's at least two dimensional, yes you'll probably need basic calculus
 
I think you're basically doing an optimization problem
 
@enderland I am, yeah.
 
8:14 PM
good luck. :P
 
luckily, all my inputs are equally hard to get which removes some complexity
(I think)
 
"equally hard to get" ???
 
it's more a matter of figuring out the minimum total number needed
 
@Ampt do you have a fixed set of inputs with fixed outputs per?
 
@JimmyHoffa yes
1X will always create the same number of outputs
 
8:15 PM
@Ampt and no equation; but static mapping defines those
 
This is Linear Algebra... that's the term I was looking for
you know, I bet wolfram alpha will solve it if I put in the correct notation
It will. Sweet, all I gotta do is create the matricies
Thanks guys!
 
I'm really curious what the source of this is haha
 
Well it's definitely not web programming
I may be optimizing a game... :D
 
lol
 
8:37 PM
want to minimize the necessary inputs to craft some stuff
 
ugh getting reliable communications with modem AT commands is a serious hassle
 
modem AT commands?
why are you using modems?
It's 20-freaking-16
put away your modems and let dead dogs lie.
 
yay modems! :)
 
if only I could
apparently for some people broadband is unrealiable and so we must use dialup modems, and these people are also paying us, and so it goes
 
tell those customers to pound dirt?
 
8:55 PM
then I don't eat
 
eat dirt?
 
eating is for the birds
 
@whatsisname have you tried explaining to them the meaning of the word unreliable and how it relates to a wire system hardly more advanced than was used to send telegrams during the civil war?
 
The kind of people who have dialup and the kind of people who listen to reason are exclusive sets.
 
@Ampt so what you're saying is ∀ n ∈ dialupUsers: n ∉ reasonablePersons
 
9:05 PM
@JimmyHoffa I'm going to assume you did your homework on set notation and say yes.
 
user55340
ATDP 16082334483
 
@Ampt you realize how strong an assumption that is?
 
Tomorrow, I get to start going through our process documentation and...OBSOLETING ALL THE THINGS!
 
@MichaelT AT+++H0
 
@JimmyHoffa oh so very strong. But I have whiskey at home calling my name and I can't be bothered to check
 
user55340
9:07 PM
The trick on early chat was typing +++ without getting a disconnect and getting the noobs to type it.
 
user55340
Easiest way was ++-^H+
 
hah, retro-neeeerds
 
user55340
Look up that phone number.
 
looks like a personal number to me
 
@MichaelT this the number for the old internet-phone-book guy?
Alternatively I may be crossing memories of 2 different books..
 
9:11 PM
@JimmyHoffa: while POTS has plenty to hate about it, lets be fair, it is quite a bit more advanced than telegrams
and as far as reliability goes, it does have reliability mandated by law, whereas broadband internet does not
 
I mean that's cool
as much as I like to hate, that's just awesome
 
@whatsisname because legal dictates somehow effect technical realities?
 
it does strongly influence how much money companies are willing to invest in reliability
 
user55340
Hmm. Didn't list it here. Traditional sibling of the bee line : bbslist.textfiles.com/608
 
@whatsisname you think people invest in hard-line reliability these days? I don't think there's any investment in POTS anymore.. that said I just don't buy it. I don't buy the idea that the old POTS which services very few people anymore and has an enormous legacy of infrastructural mistakes is somehow recognizably reliable.
 
user55340
9:14 PM
@Ampt think of all the work and design to make that work.
 
@MichaelT for sure. And then look at the pretty patterns it makes in the chart.
 
well, there isn't much, but it is actually quite reliable, and for risk-averse folks, having medical monitoring systems connected through e.g. comcast is simply unacceptable as comcast has no reliability requirements whatsoever
 
(the legacy of mistakes is due to it's age, not overall bad decisions, just different decisions made over many decades)
 
@whatsisname Have comcast: Can confirm
 
@JimmyHoffa: POTS is very reliable
 
9:16 PM
they're lucky if they hit one 9
 
@Ampt 8% uptime?
 
@whatsisname totally read that as a typo of POTUS
 
for a lot of folks POTS is significantly more reliable than their electrical service
 
@JimmyHoffa usually uptime is done by number of 9's (4 Nines is 99.99% uptime.) I made a joke saying they don't even hit 90% uptime.
false. Six sigma is six standard deviations.
 
@Ampt we have mediacom, through another 3rd party, so its awesome. our crappy 3rd party can screw up (like last week, a power outage reset something and it took 2 hours to get it fixed, even though mediacom is up fine)
 
9:17 PM
@whatsisname I would agree that comcat would be a bad choice - when I worked on telemetry for medical data we had old POTS but were rapidly moving to an EDGE provider because the reach and reliability was vastly better..
 
I think many POTS systems are 5 nines and are legally mandated to be better than 4 or similar
 
^^^ feels funny to have these achievements near each other
 
what is "POTS" ?
 
@enderland the opposite of PANS
 
9:18 PM
@enderland pussies off the shelf
 
@gnat someones got game.
 
arighty 2/2 on sarcastic responses, who wants in before I vote?
 
President of the 'States, homie.
(Plain old telephone service according to wikipedia)
 
@whatsisname again, legal mandate and technical reality are - especially in an unauditied-unregulated situation like we live now - totally separate... I just don't buy that on that old system they're providing the proscribed reliability
 
user55340
Plain Old Team Server
 
9:24 PM
wtf is up with this stupid modem
 
@whatsisname POTS
 
@whatsisname ask for it's make and model
 
the biggest problem with POTS is the quality of the wiring done to the NID and especially inside the NID and through the house. For a vast majority you're talking about wiring that is both very old, was done cheaply using very old materials, and has never been maintained/replaced/upgraded because who wants to tear their walls up? (I have DSL and had to bypass the house POTS to get any quality)
the POTS network itself I agree is very stable and reliable
but that means approx. shit when every house has rotted bad wiring throughout
interesting reading about the current state of POTS:
 
the problem is the stupid AT commands and getting the modem into a known state makes for an obnoxious state machine
 
> Before this magical "plug the land line phone in and get 911 access" belief gets further out of hand, you should all know that such a service is required for cell phones but NOT for land lines. There is no federal law that requires this.
> My parents live in a rural area. They have a land line that is less than optimal (it basically shorts out whenever it rains.) The phone company (good ol' ATT) straight up told them that they are no longer maintaining the lines in that area because they are becoming obsolete.
 
user55340
9:30 PM
My parents in a similar situation though line still maintained.
 
user55340
The kicker - they live in a valley and can't get cell phone coverage unless standing on the roof.
 
@MichaelT how do you mean similar then? They have a land line, or they have unreliable land line?
 
@JimmyHoffa ugggh auto play video
 
user55340
So they have DSL (no cable put that far) and a microcell plugged into the DSL.
 
@enderland ad block plus? I never noticed it.
 
9:31 PM
@JimmyHoffa I run adblock
 
@MichaelT microcell?
 
user55340
The voice on the land line is very poor connection. Dara error correction handles it.
 
so I still don't know who specifically I am transferring each of my projects to. wat
 
user55340
 
user55340
Plug it into the local net. It provides cell signal for ~1000 sqf
 
9:34 PM
ah. Very neat
Didn't know there was such a consumer product; makes sense but half wonder why they don't just run WiFi? The range? Ah well
 
user55340
We were very first in the area to get it.
 
user55340
Wifi doesn't do phone number ringing or 911
 
user55340
 
user55340
In the telecommunications, a femtocell is a small, low-power cellular base station, typically designed for use in a home or small business. A broader term which is more widespread in the industry is small cell, with femtocell as a subset. It connects to the service provider’s network via broadband (such as DSL or cable); current designs typically support four to eight active mobile phones in a residential setting depending on version number, and eight to 16 active mobile phones in enterprise settings. A femtocell allows service providers to extend service coverage indoors or at the cell edg...
 
@MichaelT so that thing actually works with the DSL to do classical POTS routing with the DSLAM on the other side?
 
9:36 PM
@JimmyHoffa @enderland remove adblock plus and adblock
they both sold out
 
user55340
The actual terms when out that far are subject to provider jargon.
 
ublock origin is the newest thing
 
it's really frustrating when somethign that was working just fine suddenly stops working
 
@Ampt I know they did. I don't honestly mind. For me it's the abusive and intrusive ads (which if they began to allow, they would lose every single user they have - which means losing their entire product: A captive audience) that I don't want. I don't care about banner pictures.
 
> Programmers Stack Exchange requires external JavaScript from another domain, which is blocked or failed to load.
never had this error before
 
9:38 PM
Though I'm sure some of the stuff AdBlock lets through still does the tag tracking bullshit which I don't particularly appreciate
 
@JimmyHoffa yeah no thanks. I don't want any tracking
and you know he sold out to an ad company
 
@Ampt actually sold the product/company?
 
yes - as in the original maker no longer owns it
 
In that case, ublock origin I shall find..
 
it is owned privately by an unnamed company.
 
9:39 PM
haha eff that.
 
yeah that was my reaction
 
though one of the handiest is the hosts file
 
yeah, for sure
but that's like play whackamole
 
I have that at home for my steam browser
The enormous anti-ad one
 
really? for your steam browser?
oh you mean if you're browsing in game
 
9:40 PM
because (unless I'm mistaken) there's no adblock for steam
yeah, waiting for the round to end or something
 
no - but I rarely use the browser to do anything but look at store.steam
yeah that makes sense
 
> Congratulations on your recent graduation from <University>! Have you made plans yet for your future? Based off your background I thought you could be interested in jobs at Epic, a healthcare company in Madison, WI. Either Project Management or Software Tester may be a good fit for you.
oooh downgraded this time I got a blind Epic email
 
downgraded?
did you apply there?
 
I phone interviewed there like 8 years ago, but last time I got blind emails from them I feel like they were better than "blind QA monkey" or whatever "software tester" means
 
9:42 PM
Toss in your e-mail and get updates for your hosts file
if you aren't using their hosts file already you should. It's ridiculously large
and makes my wife crazy because she clicks google ads sometimes since google makes them look native, and then she get's a nice big unresolved error
 
@JimmyHoffa haha yeah I thought you were doing it by hand - that makes more sense
 
Does anyone here know of a really good Critical Thinking resource for the neophyte? A course which perhaps emphasizes thinking clarity while being light on the philosophy and Latin?
 
Nov 20 '15 at 16:05, by Jimmy Hoffa
D.Q. McInerny
Random House Trade Paperbacks

Whether regarded as a science, an art, or a skill–and it can properly be regarded as all three–logic is the basis of our ability to think, analyze, argue, and communicate. Indeed, logic goes to the very core of what we mean by human intelligence. In this concise, crisply readable book, distinguished professor D. Q. McInerny offers an indispensable guide to using logic to advantage in everyday life. Written explicitly for the layperson, McInerny’s Being Logical promises to take its place beside Strunk and White’s The Elements of Style as a classic of lucid, invaluable advice. As McInerny notes, logic is a deep, wide, and wonderfully varied field, with a bearing on every aspect of our intellectual life. A mastery of logic begins with an understanding of right reasoning–and encompasses a grasp of the close kinship between logical thought and logical expression, a knowledge of the basic terms of argument, and a familiarity with the pitfalls of illogical thinking. Accordingly, McInerny structures his book in a series of brief, penetrating chapters that build on one another to form a unified and coherent introduction to clear and effective reasoning.At the heart of the book is a brilliant consideration of argument–how an argument is founded and elaborated, how it differs from other forms of intellectual discourse, and how it critically embodies the elements of logic. McInerny teases out the subtleties and complexities of premises and conclusions, differentiates statements of fac
Small and simple good read.
 
What do enterprises usually pay for Visual Studio Express? - like per license.
 
@AaronHall ...express is free.
 
9:50 PM
Great, so why am I getting the freaking run-around by support?
 
Because wat? Why are you calling any "support" ? Who is "support" ? Microsoft's Support?
 
the support people in my enterprise
 
Why are you calling them?
 
you're getting the run around because no one cares til you start paying them
 
I have to install a specific version
 
9:52 PM
Have you considered basking in the light of IntelliJ?
 
and an SDK
 
@JimmyHoffa you need to have a very low number of users I think for the free version
 
Also visual studio's pricing model is rather menu pricing. People don't negotiate a different price with different people; the options are right on visual studio's website.
 
@enderland or not care about the rules.
 
I'm not core, but our core people are telling me what to do to code like them.
 
@Ampt that too I guess..
 
nah, they use express
They used to use "community" or something like that.
 
@enderland perhaps so? That didn't used to be the case, but with each release MS changes the licensing options across Visual Studio
@AaronHall it looks like express was replaced by community according to that page
 
ok, maybe they gave me old info then
 
@JimmyHoffa I looked at the community edition (which appears to replace the express version) and it basically does't work for a large org
 
9:54 PM
> Visual Studio Express products are available at no charge and may be used for commercial, production usage subject to the license terms provided with each product. For example, you can use Express for Windows to create apps that you can then submit for sale in the Windows Store.
@enderland it has a user limit in license?
 
I don't know, I'm just going to follow their instructions untill I hit the brick wall, then I go back to them.
 
@AaronHall maybe everyone's messing with you. Why not just go grab visual studio yourself and figure it out? Do the software engineering thing and install some visual studio tools and try to build the needful and see what happens
 
@enderland [citation-needed]
 
> If none of the above apply, and you are also not an enterprise (defined below), then up to 5 of your individual users can use the software concurrently to develop and test your applications.

If you are an enterprise, your employees and contractors may not use the software to develop or test your applications, except for open source and education purposes as permitted above.

An “enterprise” is any organization and its affiliates who collectively have either (a) more than 250 PCs or users or (b) more than one million US dollars (or the equivalent in other currencies) in annual revenues, a
that's from the community 2013 license - visualstudio.com/support/legal/dn877550
 
Oh, bleaugh.
 
9:56 PM
Yeah, that's another idea. I probably could, I have a sudo-like escalation thing for my desktop, but I want to be careful not to "abuse" it.
 
It's not like installing some software engineering tools and trying to build some code is a particularly difficult task, just have a go at it and if you run into trouble, do what you would if it was python: Figure it out.
 
I would have installed it otherwise, but we definitely hit the 250+ mark
 
@JimmyHoffa that strikes me as really good advice. I can see why they keep you around. :) + star
 
@JimmyHoffa if you keep saying "do the needful" I might have to do the needful
2
 
9:57 PM
@enderland I was thinking the exact same thing.
please do the needful by ASAP
 
6 hours ago, by Ixrec
<-- helping
 

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