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2:32 AM
I just approved that but I'm thinking of editing out the last line of the excerpt. Why should such a restriction be in place?
(I'm not entirely sure we need this tag, but that's a separate discussion.)
1 hour later…
3:36 AM
@DoubleAA I agree. Over-legislation
1 hour later…
4:41 AM
@IsaacMoses Your suggesting such an edit would add eyes to the question beyond those my announcement in chat can find. (It's also the standard procedure if you think an edit is warranted.) I have no such luxury :(
5:36 AM
@DoubleAA done.
2 hours later…
7:15 AM
quantifiedcantillation.nl … just what it sounds like (except the TLD).
7:56 AM
Does anyone know what license is material published by Tora.ws under?
It seems like it should be open (and sefaria copies from them) but I don't see a license on their website.
5 hours later…
12:30 PM
Does anyone have a really hi-res scan of the Bird's Head Haggadah text? I'm trying to make a font from it.
2 hours later…
2:02 PM
@ShmuelBrin If sefaria copies from them, then Bachrach44 will know what the license is.
2 hours later…
3:46 PM
@msh210 Fun but it would be much more interesting if it included Nakh (or at least, 16 books of Nakh). Also it's using Tanakh.us for the Trop so it has some oddities, like not catching my example from Vayikra here judaism.stackexchange.com/a/52616/759 because Tanakh.us surprisingly reads Leningrad i.stack.imgur.com/xTWv8.png as having a Mahpach not a Yetiv.
@DoubleAA Shame (about the version). There's a local baal k'ria here whom I've almost never heard err in his reading, not in vowel choice, not in trop, nothing. He's also very clear and sufficiently loud. (He's also very, very slow, which one might view as a trade-off.) But he did err in that y'siv in Deut. a coupla years ago, saying mahpach instead. I had the rare opportunity to correct him (quietly, afterwards, of course). I haven't heard him read that reading since.
@DoubleAA And, yes, I agree, it would be more interesting if it included the other 16 -- especially if it allowed one to search only within Chumash.
@msh210 It ends up missing things like a Zarka without a Segol (somewhere in Isaiah IIRC)
Ha look how it handles the 10 commandments. See what comes after a Sof Pasuk in the same Pasuk...
It also has two Darga's in a row in Dev 13:15. Sigh.
@DoubleAA You mean because it skips Nach?
@DoubleAA The explanation page talks about the dibros specifically.
@msh210 Yes.
@DoubleAA I didn't check its version, nor any other -- is two _darga_s wrong? What do others have there?
4:01 PM
@msh210 Most other manuscripts have Darga-Tevir.
@msh210 Not because he hasn't (I assume) but because I wasn't there when he did.
@DoubleAA 13:15? Darga darga tip'cha esnachta? (Now you got me curious, so I did check... just Chabad's version.)
@msh210 Hm, yes, I guess so. Weird. @DoubleAA, is that Leningrad's version?
@TheOne hiya
Are you folks aware of any job boards catered specifically towards frum jews in the US area? Specifically NYC? I tried ou job board but the listings are limited.
@msh210, hey!
Also found macherusa.com on google
4:08 PM
@msh210 Where is Chabad's version with trop? I only see without.
@msh210, I am specifically looking for a frum office that's looking for a software developer in the Brooklyn, NY area.
@Scimonster Me, too.
Speaking of trop, what's a good resource to learn how to lane?
Q: Best way to learn Hebrew to read Torah

noobie1I didn't have the opportunity growing up to learn Hebrew. My goal is to be able to sight-read the Hebrew in Torah. I have taken several classes in grammer and syntax, and my vocab is moderate. What is the best way to take what I've learned and actually learn to sight-read? Any approach will in...

Q: Method for practicing Torah reading

Isaac MosesWhat is your method for practicing reading a Torah portion and thus memorizing the associated vowelizations and intonations? I'm looking for ideas for maximizing your effectiveness at performing a correct reading when actually confronted with a Torah scroll and for minimizing the total practice t...

@msh210, trop not hebrew
ah second link...
4:12 PM
@TheOne Wasn't sure which you meant (though I assumed you meant trop not Hebrew).
> I cleaned out those doublings by searching for any word with two trop on it, and if the two trop were the same, I deleted one of them. Hopefully there was no collateral damage from that.
@msh210 So it seems i.stack.imgur.com/7FnWk.png
@msh210 Look also at how it has a merkha or a tipcha being able to come after a mahpach. That's decidedly non-standard.
@TheOne Try luach.com's Brooklyn section
Rabbi Ovadia Yosef was very makpid on learning trop. He said if you don't know how to read you should pay someone to teach you the trop
@IsaacMoses, Thanks!
Towards the end of Bereishit there's זה with a tlisha gdola and gershayim on it, which is leined backwards. I suppose that won't show up in here.
4:16 PM
@Scimonster "if the two trop were the same"
@msh210 Somehow my eyes skipped over that part.
@Scimonster It would except Leningrad doesn't have both marks on that word. It does have both marks on קרבו in leviticus 10, but it counts them in the order they are on the word, not the order they are commonly sung.
@TheOne You're welcome. There are various Jewish or frum groups on LinkedIn. I don't really monitor them and don't know how valuable they are. One example is linkedin.com/groups/42561
@IsaacMoses, I just found two gigs on luach.com that might be relevant - one of which I already saw on another site.
@TheOne Cool. Behatzlacha
4:53 PM
@msh210 If I'm not mistaken, you have used a different first name in some correspondence with me?
@Daniel I used my Hebrew name, which is how I'm generally known in the religious-Jewish community.
Inside, Outside is a 1985 Herman Wouk novel telling the story of four generations of a Russian Jewish family and its travails in Russia and America. The book is a first person (and somewhat autobiographical) narrative told from the viewpoint of Israel David Goodkind, the third of the four generations in the book. Goodkind works in a minor bureaucratic post in the White House between March and October 1973; his insignificance gives him time to write his memoirs (the book itself, told as though Goodkind wrote it) while his position gives him opportunities to come face to face with the harried President...
(Er, that WP page only obliquely alludes to it, so don't bother following that link, sorry, but...) The book refers to "inside names" and "outside names" -- how Jews are known within and without the Jewish community, respectively.
@DoubleAA Ugh. I clicked through the link to try to find the end of that text
5:19 PM
@msh210 My impression is that many Chinese people in the States similarly use two given names.
@JonEricson hiya
@msh210 Hello.
@TheOne, sorry, I know I used to get periodic e-mail from a listserv with lots and lots of jobs, all in the NYC area, but I can't find any of the messages, and the person who signed me up doesn't remember what list it was or what site it was from. :-(
@IsaacMoses I keep seeing that link in the starred-messages list → and it keeps striking me as a typo for yodeya.com.
@msh210 Ha! It's got the upstroke-downstroke thing going on, in the opposite direction.
6:06 PM
@msh210 That site lists 11263 Tipchas all of which (eventually) precede a Sofpasuk or Etnachta. It lists 5837 Sofpasuks and 33 Sofpasuk just after an Etnachta so 5804 which ought have an associated Tipcha. It lists 5474 Etnachtas and 13 Etnachta which start a Pasuk, so 5461 that ought have an associated Tipcha. So that's 11265 Tipchas. Why do I have 2 extra Tipchas? What pattern am I missing?
@DoubleAA I didn't check on how it handles the Decalogue. Can this be related?
@msh210 It handles it as Tipcha-SP-Tipcha-SP-Tipcha-SP etc. Those should all be accounted for I think.
@DoubleAA It's hard to know what you may be missing because I don't know what information you collapsed into that "eventually". :-)
@DoubleAA Maybe a esnachta-meseg-sof-pasuk which it counts as esnachta-mer'cha-sof-pasuk???
@msh210 I mean it could also be Tipcha-Munach-Etnachta, Tipcha-Munach-Munach-Etnachta or Tipcha-Merkha-SofPasuk. Either way we have a one-to-one correspondence.
@DoubleAA Right, okay.
@DoubleAA Maybe a coupla instances of ole-v'yored? :-)
6:11 PM
oh here's one. It lost the tipcha in Dev 24 10 כִּֽי־תַשֶּׁ֥ה בְרֵֽעֲךָ מַשַּׁ֣את מְא֑וּמָה לֹא־תָבֹ֥א אֶל־בֵּית֖וֹ לַעֲבֹ֥ט עֲבֹטֽוֹ
It just has no Trop on ברעך
oh here's the other מֵאָ֥ז דַּבֶּרְךָ אֶל־עַבְדֶּ֑ךָ lost the tipcha on Ex 4 10
Ok problem solved.
@DoubleAA ... for you, for now. You may want to tell them.
s/them/him/ . And if you're not planning to, lemme know, and b'li neder I shall.
@DoubleAA Are those two words missing trop in the Leningrad codex also?
@msh210 I haven't checked the codex itself, but they are missing at tanakh.us/Tanach.xml 's version of the LC which is where that site pulls its info from.
@DoubleAA, actually, I'm contacting him anyway, since I've other stuff to tell him about the site.
@DoubleAA Yabbut if they're missing in Leningrad itself then this is not a separate bug, so there's nothing to tell him about.
6:43 PM
@DoubleAA Okay, so I looked at the Wikimedia Commons scans. Ex 4:10 has either no tip'cha or it's written in the same place as part of the letter and/or kamatz. (I'm unfamiliar with the codex, so dunno whether it's plausible that it's written like that.) Dt 24:10 has no tip'cha (though it has a mark under the resh that looks like a mer'cha to me).
7:06 PM
@MonicaCellio Thanks for your work on that.
@msh210 you're welcome. i dropped the date overrides, I'm afraid -- too much work at the time to redo them all. Feel free to edit them in if you like.
7:17 PM
The question was: according to Rashi's commentary on Chumash, which says the midwives provided water and food, "If these were new-borns what sort of food could they have provided?". You're saying the midwives allowed the mothers to nurse the babies. That doesn't seem to fit Rashi's explanation on Chumash. I don't think this answers the question at all. — msh210 ♦ 2 mins ago
^ Yet, the answer has 3 upvotes and (besides mine) no downvotes. Am I missing something?
@msh210 >The chiddush of the braitta is that they provided for them even beyond that point, when their care might have otherwise been prohibitively expensive for the Hebrew slaves.
... > they hid them in their houses and raised them.
@IsaacMoses Ah, I see! Thank you.
2 hours later…
9:05 PM
Does anybody know if there's a way to text-search in the mishna or gemara?
@Daniel I think you can normally do that with Sefaria, but their search is glitching right now.
3 hours later…
11:59 PM
Q: Creating a new tag for Amaratzish questions

LN6595Mi Yodeya caters to two distinct populations: those who give questions that show some good research and demand sophisticated answers, and those who ask basic questions and want simple answers. A tag can help discriminate between the two groups. I would like to discuss ideas for a new tag aimed a...


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