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2:40 AM
@Cerberus I have no idea. They seem almost not random. But I have no idea of the politics there to even come close to a guess.
 
@Mitch No conexion came to mind, but you never know.
 
@PhonicsTheHedgehog hey!
@Cerberus politics...it's like a soap opera. if you start watching one, you have no idea who are all the characters are, who was sleeping with who just five years ago.
 
user174558
3:00 AM
For the fun if it, I just posted a question on ELU.
 
user174558
Feel free to post 9000 answers on my SWR.
 
user174558
0
Q: Word for change of information during transmission

John Nash A: His eyes are black. B: His pupils are black. C: His students are black. When information gets passed from one person to another, its meaning may be altered. Is there a word for this situation? Such a word X might be used in the following sentence. Misunderstanding arose beca...

 
@JohnNash is the answer supposed to be 'transmission error'?
 
user174558
@Mitch I don't know. All answers are welcome.
 
but does that sound right? or are you looking for an actual single word rather than a phrase?
 
user174558
3:05 AM
A phrase is also welcome. Anything is good. It's for the Christmas mood.
 
user174558
Even downvotes are also welcome.
 
user174558
Welcome @cornbreadninja麵包忍者!
 
@tchrist It gets fairly terrible here sometimes.
I am eating these.
They're quite tasty.
 
 
1 hour later…
4:22 AM
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 I want some QQ
 
4:40 AM
[ SmokeDetector ] Few unique characters in answer: How does one identify cacophonous and euphonious words? by user152280 on english.stackexchange.com
 
 
2 hours later…
Veo
6:24 AM
Hello
 
If there is a large proportion of second language English speakers in a community, does that make a significant impact on the way the native speakers speak? For example, i live in such a community and 'reckon' was a word i never used, its was a telltale sign of being an esl speaker. Now, i use it all the time.
Anyone know if formal studies have been done on this? I know language evolves over time and I'm wondering to what extent esl speakers impact that evolution
Another example is that I grew up speaking BE but i hear AE creeping into the language because the esl speakers tend to learn English from (mostly AE) media like tv.
also, would this^ be on topic as a site question?
 
user174558
@stacey I think it is on topic, but others may disagree. Just go ahead and post, nothing to lose except some fake internet points.
 
Veo
7:16 AM
Does this make sense? 'But drawing was what I was really good in.'
 
user174558
Yes.
 
Veo
Is it too wordy or informal?
 
user174558
It is fine for what I think you are trying to say.
 
Veo
Oh okay. It's for an admission essay.
 
user174558
Ah you going to an art school?
 
Veo
7:18 AM
Yes :)
 
user174558
Ah, you can draw beautiful nude figures, lol
 
Veo
Hahaha :D
 
user174558
Many people will say good things about themselves in admission essays.
 
user174558
You must write something special, something that makes you stand out.
 
Veo
Well...
I would appreciate if you could critique the first few lines of the essay. I've started writing half an hour ago :')

Having slumbered solely under the mellifluous melodies of Mozart and Haydn, I didn’t consider playing a musical instrument until it was to enhance my drawing dexterity.
Nevertheless, my marvellous artistic journey had already commenced prior to first holding the violin. Since the age of three, I’ve been a bona fide member of the National Centre of Æsthetics and a well-known ‘denizen’ of the Japanese culturoscientific division ‘Hikari,’ where I have participated in numerous a
 
Anonymous
7:33 AM
I would say good at.
 
Anonymous
Rather than good in, I mean.
 
Veo
Mhm, thanks!
 
 
2 hours later…
user174558
9:05 AM
@Veo Well, I can't critique it, because it has too many difficult words for me! I use very simple words only.
 
9:17 AM
Like a good math book: simple words in a not so simple way :-)
 
> First, when given a choice, 80% of people preferred sentences written in clear English (for example, 97% preferred ‘among other things’ over the more traditional Latin phrase ‘inter alia’) and the more complex the issue, the greater that preference.
> But second, it found that the more educated the person, the more specialist their knowledge, the greater their preference for plain English. The old argument (or ‘excuse for lazy writing’) that ‘these readers will understand this language’ may be true, but it doesn’t mean they want to read it. Do you?
 
good point
 
Veo
9:46 AM
@JohnNash okay! thanks
 
10:08 AM
@Hugo I like Latin phrases. They're fun.
Well, in moderation. And provided they are used correctly, of course.
 
everything in moderation. Including moderation.
just got the Flip Flop hat and it's the first I've heard of that secret hat!
 
@Hugo I got only 5 hats, including some silly Darth Vader thing. That's not a hat, it's a mask. And enough with the Star Wars crap already.
 
any idea what this hat i.stack.imgur.com/3jnyO.png is from? TV or film or something?
 
 
2 hours later…
12:18 PM
@Hugo Looks like a schoolgirl hat. St Trinian's, maybe.
 
yes, or perhaps a hat one could wear with a dress. Perhaps a dress that's blue and black.
 
Does it change colour in different light?
 
user174558
I still have 7 Star Wars movies to watch.
 
user174558
How will you guys be spending Christmas?
 
user174558
12:38 PM
@FaheemMitha You look almost invisible in chat.
 
no, but some people have been getting white and gold ones, whereas others get black and blue. Like "the dress"
 
1:12 PM
@JohnNash It's a Ninja Avatar.
 
user174558
2:04 PM
Good morning @kit.
 
user174558
@mitch Thanks for the answer, but I accepted another one because it is more linguistic.
 
Good morning.
@Hugo I got a white and gold one.
 
interesting. Any idea why?
was your first vote a downvote?
 
2:22 PM
I don't think so. Pretty sure it was an upvote.
Let me check my activity.
I think this hat is for posting or voting on Solstice. — Kit Z. Fox 12 secs ago
Yep. Pretty sure.
 
Yeah, also sure about the solstice requirement
but not sure about the hat colour
 
That's the only requirement. Hat color is random.
 
but you always get the same colour after that
like "the dress", you only ever see the colour you saw the first time :)
 
Yes, because it's too hard to code it otherwise.
 
I got a white one.
 
2:33 PM
hi,
 
Hi.
 
did I use "both" correctly in the following sentence?
The aim of the present thesis is both, to analyse translation by MT and to analyse translation by human, draw a comparison between the two and to reach the logical conclusion.
 
yes, but no need for that first comma
 
That's too many thing for both.
 
second comma ok, but I'd put an "and" after it
 
2:35 PM
Both is for just two things.
 
oh yeah
 
Oh. Well. Maybe there are only two things there.
 
there's four things in there
 
...is to analyse translation by both MT and human, draw a comparison...
 
should I start a new sentence after "human"?
 
user174558
2:36 PM
The aim of the present thesis is to analyse translation by MT and by humans, draw a comparison between the two, and to reach the logical conclusion.
 
"human" probably isn't right there.
 
> The aim of the present thesis is to analyse both translation by MT and translation by humans, to draw a comparison between the two, and to reach the logical conclusion.
 
I like mine best.
 
what are the aims? Are there just two?
 
Move the both and it is fine. The parallelism was messed up by the earlier placement.
 
2:37 PM
there are a lot of aims
 
@AndrewLeach Fair enough.
 
but it's just a thesis statement
 
user174558
@KitZ.Fox Great minds think alike.
 
> The aim of the present thesis is to analyse translation by both MT and human, to draw a comparison between the two, and to reach the logical conclusion.
 
2:38 PM
> The aims of the thesis are to analyse translation by MT, to analyse translation by human, to draw a comparison between the two, and to reach a logical conclusion.
 
user174558
LOL
 
> The aim of the present thesis is to anlyse MT and human translation, to draw....
 
Or better yet "The aim of the present thesis is to analyse and compare translation by MT and humans."
 
user174558
Now he has to put all of this in, LOL.
 
isn't MT machine translation?
 
2:38 PM
too many options
 
If there are three aims, the both needs to be definitely incorporated into one of them.
 
yes it is
 
> The aim of the present thesis is to analyse and compare machine versus human translation.
There. Done.
 
So "translation by machine translation and human[s]" sounds wrong to me.
 
> The aim of this thesis is to analyse and compare machine versus human translation.
 
2:39 PM
Precision over word count, except in November.
@Hugo Even better.
> The aim of this thesis is to compare human and machine translation.
 
user174558
This thesis analyses and compares machine and human translation.
 
This thesis compares human and machine translation.
 
user174558
LOL
 
Enough :D
I'd rather stick to one version.
 
I think it needs to contain "aim" though, if it's for NIH.
 
user174558
2:41 PM
I think the last one is good.
 
Specific aims have to be explicitly listed.
Although you could do that in the next sentence.
 
and they are.
 
user174558
I don't like people using too many words.
 
user174558
Google Translate is surprisingly good.
 
but it has its minuses.
 
2:43 PM
Well, we certainly pared that one down.
 
user174558
Paring pears.
 
This is the last sentence in the paragraph.
 
user174558
Everyone who answers my question gets an upvote.
 
user174558
That's why there are so many answers, LOL
 
@KitZ.Fox I wrote* five novels in November github.com/dariusk/NaNoGenMo-2015/issues/8
 
2:46 PM
@Hugo Hey! I didn't know. I wrote my fourth this year.
 
user174558
@Hugo 5 in 1 month???
 
> In this paper we want to tell you about how people and computers change words from one kind of talking to another, and see how they are different.
 
yup
 
@Hugo That looks like a fun idea.
 
2:46 PM
* code to write
 
Wow, nice one @Mr.Shiny.
 
user174558
Wikipedia is also written in Basic English, do you know?
 
I used the upgoer5 text editor
 
user174558
Basic English is not just basic English, it has rules.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 there's a good tumblr where scientist attempt to write about their field using just those ten-hundred
 
user174558
2:48 PM
Assimil says we need about 2000 words to communicate effectively.
 
@JohnNash sometimes more words is better, sometimes it's not.
 
I like precision, so I need more words.
 
user174558
Micrometer screw gauge seems to be spelled that way in UK and US, so the micrometer means small meter and not metre.
 
I was pleased to find computer in the list of words I could use. I tried writing machine and it flagged it as not allowed. Moment of panic there, until I checked the word list.
 
@JohnNash Yes. A micrometer is not a micron.
 
user174558
2:51 PM
Now vernier callipers seems to be spelled calipers on the other side.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That that might be a bit over the top...
As you know, I am all for plain language.
 
user174558
I often misspell Caribbean as Carribean.
 
user174558
Or Carreras as Carerras.
 
@Cerberus Are you familiar with "Up-goer 5"?
 
But not by doctrine: if there is a longer, more abstract word that fits the meaning precisely, then use it.
I am familiar with the rocket, if that's what you mean.
I didn't know there was a text editor, though.
So I know your quotation was made in jest.
 
user174558
2:54 PM
I don't need a text editor, only a TeX editor.
 
La Text Editor?
 
user174558
Yes.
 
Too bad words on -or are masculine.
 
user174558
I have a question about libraries.
 
user174558
When we arrange the books by title, we do not consider articles like a, an, the.
 
user174558
2:57 PM
When we arrange the books by author, do we also not consider von, van in last names?
 
user174558
So van Gogh will be under Gogh???
 
In the Netherlands, "van" is usually ignored in the phone book, I'd guess for libraries too
 
user174558
And von Neumann under Neumann
 
but elsewhere "van" is usually included
 
Beethoven's musical scores are usually listed under B.
 
2:58 PM
van is a preposition in the Dutch and Afrikaans languages, meaning "of" or "from". It is also a common prefix in Dutch language surnames (being known as a tussenvoegsel), as in Vincent van Gogh or Marco van Basten. It can appear by itself or in combination with another prefix, such as van de, van der and van den (current and archaic forms of the article de, meaning "the") and less commonly van het or van 't (the neutral article het). Common is ver, a contraction of van der and written as a single word with the rest of the surname, as in Johannes Vermeer. The German "von" is a cognate of Dutch ...
 
user174558
I guess the same goes for foreign language books with la, le in the title...
 
I think Beethoven's a special case. I guess John von Neumann is under V not N
 
user174558
Or maybe the librarian just messed up.
 
but then John von Neumann was Hungarian and originally called Neumann János. Note the surname first!
 
user174558
In Malay, they have bin/binte which means son of/daughter of.
 
3:02 PM
bit like -son at the end of many western names. There's also "ap" from Welsh, meaning son of
 
user174558
In Chinese, the surname comes first.
 
@Hugo Yes.
In general, prepositions and articles are ignored in alphabetical orders.
It is the same in other languages, isn't it?
 
generally, yes
 
Perhaps not always when they're attached?
 
except nowadays computers don't so that often all goes out the window
 
3:05 PM
Bleh.
 
and sometimes means things always get sorted by firstname
because it's too hard to figure out surnames
 
But a Dutch phone book will be like 1/2 Van... then...
 
by "firstname", I mean just by name
 
And the other half will start with De.
 
is "de" ignored? how about "von"?
 
3:06 PM
Not sure! But I suspect foreign articles and prepositions are also ignored?
De is certainly ignored.
@Hugo I've just checked the phonebook.
Von is ignored.
As in (French) du.
 
user174558
Did you find me in the phonebook?
 
And Dutch de, and Spanish de.
 
thanks, interesting
French le etc?
 
The problem is that many French-sounding names are from Belgium, and they often attach the article there.
 
@Cerberus So in order to look up a name in your phonebook, you need to know which part of the name is an article, in every language?
 
3:15 PM
The only French names with le that I can think of are written attached, like Lefevre and Lemaire.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes.
 
or you look in one place, can't find, so check the other
 
Or that.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 But the unimportant parts of last names are not capitalised (unless no first name is mentioned), so you will know if you have seen this person mentioned before.
Can you think of e.g. a Slavic preposition or article that would be used in a surname?
Because a normal Dutchman will be able to guess that words like du and vond and del are prepositions or articles, but he won't know anything about Slavic names.
 
We don't have phonebooks here anymore because who uses them? But I'm pretty sure we put the van Whatevers and von Whoever and de Wherevers under v, v, and d, respectively.
Just like we put the McDonalds under mc
 
Then again, a good guess, which will give you the right result 95+% of the time, is to ignore any short words at the beginning, if a surname consists of more than one word.
 
3:18 PM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 We don't' ignore attached words!
But how about French names starting with de in Canada?
 
@Cerberus pretty sure they'd be under D
 
@Hugo Hmm perhaps they don't use them, then.
Then again, you can always leave out any preceding prepositions or articles when mentioning a person's name.
So you can say Beethoven.
Or Tocqueville.
The short words are not essential.
Even though they are legally part of the name, in modern times.
 
3:48 PM
@JohnNash No problem. It attracted in a good way a lot of voting.
I can't disagree with your choice (many of the entries are good), but...
Hugo answered only to your specific example, re polysemy, but your ostensible question was about any kind of error over that multiple stage communication.
Actually that means I do disagree with your choice.
ha.
@KitZ.Fox I got a blue and black one. But when I look at it, it's white and gold.
 
rofl
 
I got it on two sites and it's white and gold for both.
 
It's the same color once you get it.
I think the color is random, but maybe it depends on the time.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I'm going to get that book for christmas.
 
@Mitch Let me know how you like it. My impression is that it would get tiring after a while.
 
4:01 PM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Have you seen the cost break-down of the Fairphone 2?
It's pretty interesting.
 
Look how cheap research is if you spread it out over sales numbers like those of the Iphones.
And if you use cheap labour and cheap raw materials like for Iphones.
 
4:17 PM
@KitZ.Fox I have 17 of them now and they're all the same. :(
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 When was your first vote?
If you don't mind me asking.
 
@KitZ.Fox I'm not sure.
14:34:11Z I think
 
Damn.
I thought, if it isn't random, it's based on the odd/evenness of the hour in Z-time.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I think I will treat it as a coffee table book rather than as a narrative to read through from beginning to end (that is, I expect you're right if you try to read it linearly)
 
4:56 PM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I ate a sweet food from a tree that has new tree balls in it
that is harder than it seems
apple, fruit, seeds, eggs
 
heh. You can't use those words, but computer is okay. weeeeeeeeeeeee!
 
5:15 PM
freaking table. user_id on the user table, users_id on the joining table.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 people's priorities, man. it's messed up
 
@KitZ.Fox ugh.
 
@KitZ.Fox tree balls
 
giggles
Now I have to write some kind of SQL query. Bit rusty.
 
Write it using the ten-hundred most common words line the SQL language.
getting lunch, cya later
 
5:21 PM
CU
 
Hi @Matt.
 
hi @Kit :D
> white water, from animals, that makes teeth harder
milk
 
How will you dunk cookies without milk. omg, I bet there's no cookies.
 
no cookies
no bats
no individual animals, as far as I can tell.
cat and dog are OK
the fast red dog jumped over the slow dog #UpGoerFive
 
6:07 PM
TIL piss is in the top 1000 most frequent words
 
6:25 PM
So someone needs to earn 3 Enlightened badges in a day to test my hat theory. Who's up for it?
 
6:50 PM
I'm probably the most available candidate. What's your theory?
 
I think 3 Enlightened (or maybe 3 Nice Answer, or any three of the same) badges will earn the Flying Tiger hat.
 
Certainly hard to get, normally. Go for it. :)
I have never in my life seen the regular bat signal so low.
Apparently we should award the closing hat weekly.
 
@tchrist No, you go for it. ;)
 
Oh, what has to happen?
You mean brand new answers? Yeah, that would take effort. :)
 
Yes, I believe they would have to be new, but you know, maybe not.
whistles innocently
 
7:03 PM
How do you get Enlightened? is it +25?
oh first answer +10
 
10+
First answer, +10, and accepted.
 
I still haven't gotten +10 on my doubt question. I thought it was a good question! I guess people don't like Indian English.
 
@KitZ.Fox 3 scores of 10? That's a bit of a stretch.
@KitZ.Fox what...upvote individuals who have a few 9's? is there an easy data.stackoverflow.QL for that?
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 People just don't do the needful.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Unbelievable. Where's the link?
 
6
Q: I have a doubt about having a doubt

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇I learned from this question that in Indian English the word doubt is used to mean question, that is, as a countable noun. If my understanding is correct, the following is grammatical in InE: I have two doubts about SQL. 1. Can I type in lower-case? 2. Does null equal null? I’m curious abou...

I also wish I had a more authoritative answer than one Indian guy saying "yeah, no, yeah"
I also wish FF would've read my question more closely instead of flagging it as a dupe of an ELL Q.
 
7:12 PM
There. Maybe that will help.
 
Eh. I've got over 20K, so if I'm ever de-frocked, I'll still be able to do my thing. The rest is just gravy.
Delicious rep gravy that should be spread over everyone else.
giggles in a slightly hysterical way
 
@KitZ.Fox That gravy tastes a little weird. Did you forget to put it in the fridge?
We still have leftovers from thanksgiving that I'm still eating.
But I'm the only one so... at least I'm enjoying it.
 
I think this query finds answers that are almost enlightened
 
And posted since the beginning of Winter Bash?
 
@KitZ.Fox that seems a little too stringent. But, we can try on @Mr.ShinyandNew安宇's list
 
Then we need someone who has three of them.
sigh
Science is hard.
 
We have none that are score 8 or 9 since Dec 14, at least, not in SDE data.stackexchange.com/english/query/408589/…
 
Oh right, of course. That data is out of date.
We'd have to...unh.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Just upvoted three of your 9's. Wait a couple minutes and we'll see.
 
7:21 PM
No, I already tried that.
 
Oh.
Wait...when
 
@Mitch three different users?
 
If it is three Enlightened, it's either since Winter Bash started or within one day after the answer was posted.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 er... no, just me. Three different answers from the far past (before WB 2015) that were at 9. Then I upvoted them. so now 10 and we'll see if that fits the criteria
 
Here are the almost enlightened ones, sorted by username data.stackexchange.com/english/query/408589/…
 
7:24 PM
It's not going to work. I forgot the data are stale.
Sorry.
 
I just found 3 of medica's +9 enlightened candidates and upvoted them. So if there's a hat in that, she should get it.
 
Since the beginning of the Bash?
 
No, I don't know how to find those.
but she hasn't received her badges yet, that I can see.
 
The script takes a bit. Maybe 15 minutes or so.
I already tried that with tchrist. I saw the badges kick in, but no hat.
Unless the hat takes a while. Which I suppose is possible.
 
Why are people so insistent on being wrong?
 
7:31 PM
they're on the internet. what better place to be wrong?
 
@KitZ.Fox that's probably a separate script
 
The best part of being wrong on the internet is that there are so many helpful people to point it out.
 
Or worse, they don't point it out. So all those non-pointer-outers are also wrong and promulgating wrongness.
That's meta wrong.
or wrong by ommission
which is more like nega-wrong
If I am wrong about this, that would be meta-wrong.
Right?
 
Yes.
 
"The promise of the cloud is the ..."
Shut up! That's not what the cloud is!
 
7:35 PM
"... wetness"
 
Why do people even talk if they're going to say BS?
@MattE.Эллен Good save.
 
I'd say BS is a magnification of the internalisation of various counterfactual processes that cause cognitive interference through repetition
 
People are like chatbots. They just pick one keyword out of what the next person says and then shoot off in random directions, getting the accent and the syntax perfectly, but only caring about semantics barely within the sentence.
@MattE.Эллен That made perfect sense...up until 'repetition' and with that I disagree.
Well, maybe you could make a case for it.
 
52 secs ago, by Matt E. Эллен
I'd say BS is a magnification of the internalisation of various counterfactual processes that cause cognitive interference through repetition
Or is it just BS?
 
Nobody cares about semantic barley anymore.
 
7:39 PM
What about Nathan Barley?
 
I barley know who that is.
 
7:54 PM
@MattE.Эллен I see what you did there. With the writing of the words and the explanation of the concepts.
 
I've said it before and I said it again
 
user174558
I have 1800 points. 200 more to 2000.
 
yay, just got $20 in the mail for the DRAM price-fixing class-action lawsuit!
 
Woo! Pizza night!
 
if by "pizza" you mean "lego", then YES!
2
 
user174558
7:59 PM
I don't like pizza.
 
how about mondays?
 
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