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5:48 AM
:/ why do I keep answering questions like this:
3
A: Isometric Building Placement

John McDonaldI would highly recommend not using the MouseListener on the images for one main reason: The graphics should only be a visual representation of what's happening in the game. Using the graphics to control the game creates high coupling between the graphics and the game, which will make it hard to m...

Now that he's got the mouse position -> game position code working, he's trying to figure out how to get his tiles selected. Do I ask him to make a new question, or what?
 
Hehe
I think you do yeah.
@Tetrad would know.
 
 
8 hours later…
1:54 PM
Anyone here?
 
Oooohhhh sounds nifty
 
I have no idea what I'd do with it, but thought of all places, this would be a good place to post it.
 
Well thanks, I actually needed something like that
 
Glad to help. =]
I wonder if it's worth getting just for the textures and audio packs...
I could probably use a bunch of this stuff in other media, as I'm not a game developer.
 
Probably, from what I saw there is so much stuff in there
I wouldn't call myself a game developer but I'm learning about it, so I'll need something like this
 
2:23 PM
I'm studying 'interactive multimedia' in college, currently.
So, I'm doing things like web development, phtography, motion graphics, etc.
For example:
Did that for gaming.stackexchange.com recently.
 
2:42 PM
wow, @GnomeSlice, that's awesome! i'll probably get it even though i don't do any 3d/unity stuff (yet)
 
Still trying to decide... that's a lot of money (for me) to spend on something I may or may not use.
 
hmmm, it looks like you can't sell anything you make with those assets
 
You... can't?
ಠ_ಠ
Source?
 
there's a few comments on the bottom, including this one: "If you're interested in releasing a free game Tiago, you can use this. However, if you intend to sell - you will need an extended license for the assets you choose to use in that game."
 
@thedaian I don't even see that... Hmm...
 
2:50 PM
and if you look at the "buy now" page, it has this under "regular license": "rendered still or animated use in client or personal projects such as mockups, commercials, free games, fliers, artwork"
 
@thedaian 'client or personal'... doesn't that include commercial?
 
more comments here basically saying the same thing: 3docean.net/item/indie-game-dev-bundle/discussion/918331
which kind of sucks
 
Lets have a look at the Licensing Terms...
(e) You may reproduce the Work.
in a printed format or;
on a website or;
in an electronic document such as a PowerPoint presentation or an eBook or;
as part of software you create or;
in a video production or;
in a music track.
(I'm not good at this license stuff, so if someone else could interpret this, that'd be great.)
 
@GnomeSlice yes, but right above that is the "important" part: Unless you have our prior written consent, you must not directly or indirectly license, sub-license, sell or resell or provide for free the Work or offer to do any of these things. All of these things are referred to as Resale.
 
That means that if you use it in something, you can't provide the source to the assets, doesn't it?
Selling a game isn't indirectly selling the resources.
As long as you don't make it open-source.
...I think.
 
2:58 PM
shrugs there's a lot of people commenting saying that you can't use the assets in something you sell, so i'm going to have to trust them
which means i'm not actually going to buy the pack
 
Could always send them an email asking.
Oh, dang.
> (g) You must not incorporate the Work in a work which is created for Resale by you or your client.
Unless you get the extended license:
> (f) You may incorporate the Work in a work which is created for Resale by you or your client (provided that only the complete work is offered for sale and the terms of sale (i) require those that acquire the work to only use the Work for their own personal use or in a work they are creating for a client (ii) prohibit resale of the Work as a stand-alone item).
 
yeah :(
 
Ah, well.
Wouldn't pay the full price for it then, but for $20, it's still a steal.
 
True
 
 
2 hours later…
4:55 PM
Anyone here?
 
5:10 PM
no, not really.
 
neither
 
We're never really here
It's a place for our collective thoughts to rest and wander.
deep
 
whoa, man
what if like, we're all in a virtual reality simulation
 
The Matrix dude.
 
So yeah... @Gabe, in the future you should just come out with your question. If people are around, and able to answer, they will chime in. Also, a number of people (like myself) read the chat history when they log in.
(assuming you had a question)
 
5:21 PM
@GnomeSlice That is pretty awesome
 
if you don't have a question and just want to talk about something, then... just start talking. you'll get a better response.
 
@JohnMcDonald New Question
@thedaian I just love when people ask if they can ask things :p
 
heh, yeah
 
This place is a lot like IRC, only with automatic logs of what has been said when you were away.
So yeah, ask a question, and people will respond when they can.
 
@Noctrine New question recommended. Thanks
 
5:28 PM
I'm considering moving Terraria 2.0 to be multiplayer/online focused. To sorta give it something new. Basically, some sort of hybrid between Terraria and Maplestory. There would be shared hubs(towns, etc) where everyone can trade and get missions. Personal/Homestead realms which is a personal area for the players to build and invite friends to build with them. Faction/Guild areas for guilds to do their thing. And then mission/combat realms, which would be generated for whatever purpose they have
Going in this direction, I also get more control over the game, making cheating harder, and PvP more balanced and fun.
 
Hmm, neat
 
@MindWorX that's probably a good idea. having an online component is a huge way to get new players.
 
Yeah
And being initially free to play, generating revenue by use of a cash shop (micro transaction model) will also attract players.
Players love "free" games. :P
 
indeed
as long as freemium is handled well
which i think you're smart enough to handle it well.
 
Well, one thing is sure, anything you pay for, wont unbalance PvP.
It's not going to be like gunbound.
 
5:35 PM
lol
 
now i have a question (not related to gamedev, but...)
i have a function with this signature: `FormatQueryString<TProperty>(string formatText, params Expression<Func<TRowModel, TProperty>>[] expressions)`
this is how i'm trying to call it: FormatQueryString("FSID={0}&CID=&Strt={2}&Stp={3}&OIO=False", m => m.Id, m => m.Start, m => m.Stop)
i'm sure i'm doing something wrong
since it gives me this error: Cannot convert lambda expression to type 'string' because it is not a delegate type
 
umm, shouldn't it be {0}, {1}, and {2}?
 
yes, it should be. good catch
 
Time to install ReSharper, bug your boss
It would have caught that
 
ReSharper rocks! :P
 
5:45 PM
haha
 
All the things I've learned.
learnt?
Hmm
 
i think "learned" is correct.
i had a {1} in there but removed it because i wasn't going to use that argument then forgot to change the rest :(
that didn't fix my problem though :(
 
same error?
brb
 
yeah, same error. namely, the m => m.Id bit of code
 
What's TRowModel?
Uhm...
Works for me
class Program
{
    public class TRowModel
    {
        public Int32 Start;
        public Int32 Id;
        public Int32 Stop;
    }

    private static void FormatQueryString<TProperty>(string formatText, params Expression<Func<TRowModel, TProperty>>[] expressions)
    {

    }
    private static void Main()
    {
        FormatQueryString("FSID={0}&CID=&Strt={1}&Stp={2}&OIO=False", m => m.Id, m => m.Start, m => m.Stop);
    }
}
No problems.
 
5:51 PM
:( well, thanks for trying. i'll probably just ask someone in the office for help, then
 
Are you sure it's not an issue inside the FormatQueryString method?
 
yeah, it is
stupid overloads
there's two methods with the same name
and it's trying to do the wrong one
well. now it's complaining about specifiying the type arguments explicity
 
6:11 PM
which i have no idea how to do :(
 
6:31 PM
What's the other overload?
 
6:48 PM
I bet it's a non-generic one
like, static void FormatQueryString(string formatText, params string[] expressions) { }
why does that use an expression anyways? does it examine the name of the property too?
 
@MindWorX sorry, was searching out lunch. the other overload is FormatQueryString<TProperty>(string formatText, string defaultText, params Expression<Func<TRowModel, TProperty>>[] expressions)
 
7:05 PM
hmmm that also works correctly for me
including both otherloads
is m actually of type "TRowModel"?
it looks like TRowModel should be another type parameter to FormatQueryString
 
It works perfectly with both overloads too for me
 
darn :(
 
People keep telling me I shouldn't waste too much time on placeholder graphics, but I feel that if I pick the right placeholder graphics, I'll be able to much better implement the assets handling of sounds and textures along with a proper animation system.
Is that wrong?
 
placeholder graphics need to implement all the features you require for final graphics
 
I just extracted all the graphics from Codename: Gordon which has the exact style I want. This means I'll just have to replace the textures when I get a texture artist, and presto.
 
7:10 PM
Hey guys I have a question ^_^
 
that doesn't sound like "wasting too much time"
 
Lets say there was a team of three people making a game, one of them knew alot more than programming about the other 2. The game was a browser based mmo rts.
 
@Jimmy, That's good. I was a bit confused, since using random placeholder graphics would result in me having to redo the whole assets handling when getting the right graphics.
 
let the lead programmer design the overall structure and hand off bite-sized chunks to the other guys
 
Who should do what? Like should the experienced programmer do the server/database and ask the other 2 to do javascript and html?
 
7:11 PM
Anyways, off to watch a movie. <3 for all.
 
I'm trying to determine who does what -_
 
@MindWorX that sounds fine. i think it's mostly "don't spend a ton of time working on placeholder stuff that is definitely going to change". ripping graphics from somewhere else is 100% ok in this case
 
@Gabe: depends on if the other 2 are capable of good software design. the reason I suggested to let the lead programmer become the "architect" is that its much easier for a less experienced programmer to write simple, self-contained modules.
 
Well I'm not sure. I can only communicate with the other 2 over the internet, and I'm not too sure how much they know, but I'm wondering if I should just ask them to make a really basic javascript game, send it to me, and I can edit it and implement the whole server/database part
 
step 1: figure out exactly how much they know
ideally, do that by asking for examples of stuff they've done in the past
 
7:15 PM
don't "ask them to send it to you"
collaborate over github or bitbucket
 
and if they don't have any examples they can show you, then you should probably be a bit worried.
 
I went to a programming camp with them about a year ago so i KNOW them and they are good people.
thats @thedaian that is a good start ^_^
 
ah, so you know them. that's good, then
but, yes, as @Jimmy mentioned, the person with the most knowledge tends to take on the role of "lead architect" and organizes everything and probably needs to figure out what the game is going to be, then figures out how everything else is going to work. i would also suggest github or bitbucket or something out there to manage things, and with those you also get source control
 
alright, thanks for the advice.
 
if it was me (and two other people), i'd probably want one person working on the backend, and figuring out all the "rules" for how the front end interacts with the backend. then i'd have someone on the front end doing html and javascript stuff, and finally a person in charge of art/graphics/design. but if all three of you are programmers, that system might run into problems.
 
7:29 PM
The other 2 will be working together on the same thing most likely. And for the graphics, 3docean.net/bundles/indiegamedev
If any of you wanna help on the project thatd be great ^_^ I mean I know the most programming but I woundn't say I'm good at it. I still need to study SQL and PHP and all that, still need to set up a server and get the basics for that down.
Its alot to ask for, but if any of you wanna be just a sort of guidance consular or something, not a teacher, to guide us in the right direction.
 
I'm willing to help with some questions, I've done php/mysql web games before
 
Alright, is there any other way I can contact you beside stackexchange?
 
don't worry, he's here like every day.
 
hahahha alright
 
also if you @Gabe someone in chat, it will go to their inbox if they aren't currently in the room
 
7:37 PM
I did not know that, thanks for telling me :)
 
(aka they get a little red number if they visit any of the SE sites they're on)
also also i'm on google plus here: barchok.com/+
 
7:55 PM
yeah, I have a little (horrible) experience with working with an online team, and one of the big things that I think we did wrong was communication
source control is a must, people in a similar timezone is really nice too
 
user4704
The problem is that project management is hard in general, even in person, and most programmers are no good at it. Not being in the same work environment or having a fixed reporting hierarchy only makes it worse
 
yeah, big time. In the last group project I attempted, there was no hierarchy and it made it really tough
 
the last time i tried to work with a team on a project, it ended with me being the only one showing up to the weekly meetings, so i went and got a job
 
so tough in fact, that I was getting very stressed out. So stressed out that I had trouble sleeping at night and finally ended up leaving the project before it even started
It caused a good friend of mine to get really pissed off at me, :(
 
lol
whose project was it?
 
8:01 PM
Well... it wasn't my idea if that's what you're asking
 
on the other hand, driving half an hour during the winter to watch episodes of My Little Pony: FiM in a darkened office was totally worth it.
 
heh
:( yeah, me and that friend just started talking again last month
but not about programming anymore
Actually... our breakup was the reason I started spending so much time here. heh, I needed someone/somewhere I could yak about programming
Anyone played around with a control library for XNA? (buttons, lists, panels, etc.)
 
8:22 PM
@JohnMcDonald I've only considered writing my own. It didn't even really occur to me that libraries already exist.
 
I remember researching a couple years ago and there were no good options
 
yeah... I've been writing my own, and I'm sick of writing it
 
but I haven't used XNA in a while
 
Recently, I spent way too long modifying my Label class to support text wrapping
 
what's wrong with your current system?
 
8:24 PM
I remember someone in the ludum dare channel was writing his own. it took him a long time and i don't think he ever properly finished
 
Just that it's missing a bunch of features: multiple fonts, a scroll bar for my list, text selecting/copying/cutting/pasting from the text box, checkboxes, radiobuttons, etc.
Most of it works pretty good, but... I can't see anyone else getting any use out of it, it's... not integrated into AO, but I typically only add features as AO needs them
 
IIRC Wolfire use Awesomium
I think there's a .net wrapper for it
 
@JohnMcDonald It seems that most people who need those features simply wrap an XNA context in a winform.
 
Hmm, interesting... I was wondering if that was possible
Or... but I'm looking for in-game controls
 
I think most people end up writing their own
 
8:31 PM
:(
 
user4704
Better that way.
 
user4704
UI is very hard to do well in a general fashion. Every library I've ever seen has sucked.
 
:/ yeah, it just takes a lot of time away from developing the game
I used to like developing controls, but these days I'm finding it really tiresome
like, I don't want to make a scrollbar, :(
for my list
 
then don't! or something
 
yeah ,for now I don't have things like scrollbars, so I rolled my own
especially since the UI is a "scene" and reuses all the ray-box intersections I needed for the scene anyways
but @JoshPetrie doesn't it take a lot of work? does ArenaNet do its own UI?
 
8:46 PM
UI Library suckage has been my hell recently.
 
:( I feel ya
 
in Google+, how do you "subscribe to someone"? Is there a recommended bucket to put them in, and then how do they send things to you? It's so confusing.
 
You "subscribe" by adding them to any circle
They send you stuff by doing the same AND by posting something to that circle or by posting something public
 
hmm okay
 
You have no idea which circles they have added you to, and that's intentional
 
8:58 PM
so the content author has full control over who they subscribe to
err
who their subscribers are
 
yeah
The poster gets to choose where the info goes
 
like, if I add you to a circle because I'm interested in seeing your posts, I dont' actually get anything until you explicitly share it with me, unless it's "public"
 
basically, yes
 
so "public" posts from people in my circles show up in my feed too?
 
8:59 PM
cool people will post lots of public things
 
I've been trying to figure out which circle Ohio goes in... it's probably not "people I haven't killed yet but am planning on it" and it's probably not "Owes me money"
so I guess I can make a circle for "people I am following"
 
and/or they'll add tons of people to their circles and divide/separate people into different circles if they post a whole lot of content of different types
 
Also... the subscriber has some control over what they hear too, like if you add your grandmother and are sick of her talking about her cat, you can ignore her (somehow) without actually removing her from your circles
 
i stuck you in my "game dev" circle
 
yeah, likewise
 
9:00 PM
Hm...looks like I need to create a gamedev circle
 
The Hangover Part II is recommendable. :P
 
Yeah, one of the default circles is "Following"
I have a circle for "Programmers"
that way, I can post the latest geek-talk there
Meanwhile, you don't need to see the latest and greatest line of Rossi skis
 
I didn't enjoy Part I as much as most people. Maybe I derived 70% of the optimal satisfaction from it.
 
And that, is exactly why I love circles
 
Canadians and their skis. Is it true that you ride snowmobiles to work?
 
9:03 PM
Nope
We ride dog sleds
 
hmmm don't you have a problem keeping your pet polar bears from fighting the dogs?
 
Ever heard of albino polar bears? They're black.
:D
 
Only if we haven't clubbed any seals for the bears that day
 
hahaha
 
Which reminds me of a funny story on the news a few years back. The para-olympics were taking place in Winnipeg during the summer, and one of the competitors was from somewhere like Brazil and thought it would be cold, so she brought a parka. Lol, ended up being 35C (95F) and she had to buy a whole new wardrobe while she was here.
 
9:14 PM
haha, wow
 
yeah... Some people just think Canada == Cold
 
weather is odd.
 
My brother went waaay way up north last summer, as far as the roads go, and it was 20-25C (68-77F) all day/night long
 
I went camping/rockclimbing in south Texas a couple years ago and the nighttime temperatures were like -5C
 
@Jimmy did you do that during the winter, or something?
 
9:17 PM
@JohnMcDonald Save for like, a thin sliver, isn't that mostly the case?
I mean like, 80-90% of Canada is tundra right?
 
@Noctrine Of course it is. And we all walk around with our snowshoes
 
I mean, except for the part of it that people live in.
 
I'll admit, the winters are cold, but the summers are warm, as I mentioned 20+, even in the far north
 
Yeah, it's very much similar to the weather I get in michigan. Even more like the weather I got in upper michigan when I was north of Canada :p
 
9:20 PM
@thedaian yeah it was mid-february
but the daytime temperatures were still like 25C
 
@Jimmy that explains it. the desert gets cold during the night anyway, but winter makes it worse
 
25C, in Canada, in February? Probably not
 
I mean in Texas
 
Oh, in Texas, yeah
 
25C in feburary is pretty hot though :P
 
9:22 PM
sorry, didn't follow the thread back
yeah
But yeah, almost nobody lives in Northern Canada
I think the total population in the 3 northern provinces/territories is about 3k
heh, yeah, I lie, but last I checked, the population of the north was less than that of P.E.I.
 
so what you're saying is the US should just invade northern canada with our troops in Alaska.
 
@Ohio: we don't want it any more than they do.
 
You really want to learn how to club baby seals for survival?
 
we'd invade and the canadians would go "here, have some poutine" then we'd go "gravy on french fries?" and run away
 
well the real reason is that we heard there was petroleum. Canadians are now classified as terrorists.
 
9:27 PM
@thedaian Gravy and Cheese Curds
@Jimmy heh, because we have something you want
 
ah yes. Cheese curds. to make it extra disgusting :P
 
Without them, it's just fries and gravy
 
it's because Canadians have learned to adapt for the cold by consuming high-calorie foods. In the same way that Eskimos eat seal fat.
 
hah... maybe
Today wasn't so bad, we had a Chinook come in
 
you work on-site?
 
9:35 PM
Damn, gonna have to make up a new sentence that involves a Chinook
 
user4704
@Jimmy Yes, we do. And yes, it's a lot of work. But it's also a lot of work to adapt somebody else's "general" (and often incorrectly so) UI toolkits to specific needs in a lot of cases.
 
user4704
UI is not a "easy" problem, it just looks like it is. And that bites a lot of people.
 
@Jimmy I used to, but no, I work in the City
 
@JohnMcDonald I see. I was trying to figure out if you were talking about helicopters or salmon.
 
9:37 PM
@JoshPetrie I assumed real studios used things like Scaleform
 
no, I mean it got unusually warm. It went from about -15 to +10 in 24 hours or so
 
user4704
Scaleform is used very often by console games with simple UI
 
user4704
I'm pretty sure our code predates the existence of scaleform anyhow
 
10:01 PM
I eat fries and gravy.
 
Yeah, but that's not Poutine
 
I like cheese.
 
:) me too
 
I could eat Poutine.
I think.
 
You totally could, there's nothing disgusting about it, other than the calorie count
 
10:04 PM
@Jimmy I thought he was talking about the helicopter, too
 
hey guys, first time in chat... is this related to game development or just random chat as it seems?
 
user4704
Game development.
 
user4704
But off-topic discussion happens now and again
 
I guess that's bound to happen on the internet :P
 
It started with GUI discussions, then moved somehow to weather and Canada
No idea how
 
10:08 PM
lol, how did it turn into fries and gravy?
 
heh, Canada
 
poutine.
 
Fries + Gravy + Cheese Curds = Poutine
 
or we got invaded by cooking.se
one of the two
 
Silly canada
Hey, my character is a face now. :D
Not at all creepy looking. :P
 
10:10 PM
floating gordon head!
 
@MindWorX you've inspired me to finally try out Terraria
the original
 
i played a bit (ok, a lot) of multiplayer terraria this weekend
still not a huge fan of it
 
Im' kind of ambivalent.
 
user4704
It was too tedious for me.
 
i think it's because it's not really designed for "building stuff", which is really what i like. it's more action based, with a side effect of building a few things because why not
 
10:13 PM
multiplayer terraria is pretty fun, but it could be because of the multiplayer. it looks like there's a lot of mid- and end-game content, but so far I've spent 4 hours digging dirt with a copper, then iron, now gold pickaxe.
 
yeah, it really REALLY lacks early game content
all the cool stuff is near the end
 
Multiplayer Terraria is a actually pretty bad in my opinion. It's so easy to cheat it's horrible.
I've fought people with 900 hp who would place corruption blocks to block my path.
Neither is possible.
 
"possible"
 
well, I mean, multiplayer as in playing with friends
 
Ah yeah, that's more fun.
What I miss the most in Terraria is a challenge.
 
10:23 PM
it helps out tremendously that you can collaboratively dig dirt tunnels with 2 people twice as fast as a single guy can do it.
 
First time, not having read any guides what so ever, I killed Eater of Worlds without even moving around.
 
i haven't fought any bosses yet. but I'm still naked and have a copper short sword.
 
Hehe
 
10:51 PM
welp
In case people have android phones: there's a ton of apps on sale today for 10 cents
 
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