The Nineteenth Byte

quartata

9:00 PM

Right, but I'm pretty sure it does have that.

Alex A.

@Doorknob You switched to Chromium from Firefox, right? Why was that?

quartata

Lemme see

Oh, nevermind.

I guess I'll have to wait a bit before Jelly can shine

It should be able to beat Pyth once it has drop though

Alex A.

> for Jelly can shine

Doorknob

@AlexA. No, the other way around

and it was because Firefox runs every tab in the same process and it's just way slower on my machine in general

Alex A.

@Doorknob OH! You now use Firefox and you used to use Chromium?

Doorknob

9:01 PM

Pentadactyl is far better than the equivalent cVim, but the performance improvements far outweigh that

@AlexA. yes

Alex A.

So having all of the tabs run in the same process (how Firefox does it) performs better on your laptop than separate processes (how Chromium does it)?

Doorknob

errr... no, the other way around

quartata

Hm... what easy challenges can I answer in Jelly

I wanna do some advertising for Dennis

Doorknob

I used to use Firefox and now I use Chromium

in related news, I can't read

7

J Atkin

Does anyone know why this code is slowing down? I would like to run 1 000 000 rounds but it gets exponentially slower.

github.com/JJ-Atkinson/Connect-n/blob/…

Alex A.

9:12 PM

@Doorknob So Chromium is faster and that's why you switched?

Doorknob

yes

mınxomaτ

Is there a language which allows white space in identifier names?

TimmyD

@mınxomaτ Whitespace :p

mınxomaτ

@TimmyD Whitespace has no identifiers.

Doorknob

@mınxomaτ GolfScript

Alex A.

9:14 PM

@mınxomaτ SAS if you use extended naming conventions. N"I am a name"

Doorknob

Maybe CJam (not sure though)

Ostrich

:(

It's true

@AlexA. We don't like to talk about that

Alex A.

9:14 PM

:(

Optimizer

nor Pyth

Zgarb

37

Q: Has whitespace in identifiers ever been idiomatic?

C# style suggests using CamelCase in identifiers to delimit words. Lisp tradition suggests using-dashes-instead. Has there ever existed a programming language where using spaces in identifiers was not only allowed, but a commonly used idiom when employing multi-word identifiers? It's possible t...

quartata

> That's the old passage to Ostrich. We don't go there anymore -Alex A

Alex A.

We don't go to Ravenholm.

TimmyD

@mınxomaτ Sure, not for variables, but you can have labels.

quartata

9:19 PM

Undertale - Megalovania... KAZOO'd!

►

What

Alex A.

0

A: Find the sets of sums

Fat Python 2.7 answer, 174 bytes At least it's readable :) import sys,itertools m=int(sys.argv[1]) for k in itertools.product([i for i in range(m) if i > 0],repeat=int(sys.argv[2])): if sum(k)==m:print str(k)[1:-1].replace (" ", "")

wtf is "fat python"

quartata

@AlexA. He means it is really long

Alex A.

Oh, okay

quartata

Also itertools

amirite fellas

Alex A.

no

quartata

9:21 PM

> That's the old passage to itertools. We don't go there anymore

ev3commander

wheres the bot test ing room'

nvm chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/30332/beep-boop-maggot

TimmyD

@AlexA. flags as nsfw

Alex A.

:/

ev3commander

@ETHproductions comon start up your bot again

quartata

2

A: Calculate the Kronecker symbol

LabVIEW, 44 Bytes LabVIEW Primitives Since its symetrical i swapped the inputs if a was bigger than b. Represents the real formula now counting like always according to

LabView is winning what

Alex A.

9:23 PM

:/

Martin Büttner

@quartata it is because LabVIEW Primitives != Bytes

quartata

@MartinBüttner phew

Alex A.

LabVಠಠ

Martin Büttner

@AlexA. that is almost as bad as the pun by the UK cinema chain "vue" when they say "a VUEnique experience" in their adverts...

Alex A.

That made me physically cringe.

Martin Büttner

9:26 PM

it does that

quartata

Speaking of jokes

Thatha

Oct 27 at 20:53, by Zizouz212

HOLY MACAMADOOLES WHY THE HECK AM I HERE WHAT THE HELL IS THIS DARN IT ALEX!!!!!!!!

quartata

Just thought I'd show the chatbot's new startup message

It's very fitting

El'endia Starman

o.O!

I got 115 rep on SO in the last 10 hours.

...from the question/answer I posted two days ago...

It must be trending somewhere...

PhiNotPi

I can't wait for the rep recalc. (which may or may not happen, but I'm waiting for it anyways.)

Sp3000

9:29 PM

Anyone tried calculating how much Calvin goes up by?

quartata

@Sp3000 He'll gain 21k.

Doorknob

@quartata false

quartata

@Doorknob You're the person who said he'll get 21k

Doorknob

without the repcap

quartata

Oh.

Still will be some obscene amount

Maybe like 15k

Doorknob

9:31 PM

and I'm still lazy and I still haven't gone on meta.SE and found the query that takes that into account

Thomas Kwa

7k rep \o/

Alex A.

I need to post a ton of questions before the recalc.

Doorknob

... or after it, since, ya know, you'll gain the same amount of rep anyway...

Thomas Kwa

No

quartata

@AlexA. no stop

Thomas Kwa

9:32 PM

Question volume will go up after the recalc, so each question will get less attention

Therefore, fewer answers and fewer votes.

Doorknob

guess so

Thomas Kwa

So the time to post questions is now.

El'endia Starman

Not so sure about the "fewer votes" thing.

Votes are free and easy.

2

quartata

I thought of an interesting challenge about the one hobby I have that no one here knows anything about

Contract bridge

Contract bridge, or simply bridge, is a trick-taking game using a standard 52-card deck. It is played by four players in two competing partnerships, with partners sitting opposite each other around a table. Millions of people play bridge worldwide in clubs, tournaments, online and with friends at home, making it one of the world's most popular card games, particularly among seniors. The World Bridge Federation is the governing body for international competitive bridge. The game consists of several deals each progressing through four phases: dealing the cards, the auction (also referred to as bidding...

Thomas Kwa

I wanted to write a bridge challenge, but I don't bridge.

quartata

9:35 PM

@ThomasKwa I do.

Anyways, this challenge is pretty simple actually.

It's just counting the points in a hand.

TimmyD

Stupid South. Never trust 'em. Always try to backstab you.

Alex A.

@ThomasKwa And here I was hoping that the increased reputation award would add incentive to post after the increase...

quartata

@TimmyD ?

TimmyD

Isn't that the notation? North leads 3 Hearts, East plays 2 Spades, etc.?

I was just (attempting poorly to) make a joke that the player named "South" is untrustworthy.

quartata

@TimmyD Well, the starting player in bidding is always different based on the board

El'endia Starman

9:38 PM

Apparently, a universe with 3 spatial dimensions and 1 time dimension is basically the only universe of interest. o.O

quartata

And you can't bid 2 spades after bidding 3 hearts

If you're talking about the play, that would be a valid play but a little strange since it means East had a void in hearts

TimmyD

The closest I've come to bridge was whist with the wife's family

quartata

Bridge is a very strange game.

But I love it because it's mostly math

I think what makes Bridge so strange is the artificial conventions, really.

ev3commander

![](cdn.scratch.mit.edu/scratchr2/static/djangobb_forum/img/smilies/…)

what no images

at all

noooo

[img]cdn.scratch.mit.edu/scratchr2/static/djangobb_forum/img/smilies/…

Thomas Kwa

oeis.org/A000004: The sequence of all zeroes. Not kidding.

ev3commander

9:40 PM

noooooooooooooo

quartata

@ev3commander Don't use the markdown link

El'endia Starman

Just post the image link by itself.

ev3commander

thanks

Alex A.

@ThomasKwa Next catalog!

quartata

@ThomasKwa lmao

I love how they have a really long Mathematica program for that too

El'endia Starman

9:42 PM

@ThomasKwa To add insult to injury, the first three sequences are nowhere near that simple.

quartata

@AlexA. Technically since exit codes are valid output

A blank program in most any language would do that

Thomas Kwa

@AlexA. "Builtins that trivialize the task (i.e. generate zeroes or lists of zeroes) are not allowed."

Alex A.

"Print hella zeroes with no zeroes in ur cod"

El'endia Starman

@ThomasKwa 11-N

quartata

@AlexA. I think Befunge prints 0 when popping from an empty stack

So that'd be one byte

SuperJedi224

9:45 PM

Yay! I finally found my missing USB-to-micro-USB adapter cable

So now I can reinstall the calculator apps I accidentally deleted

El'endia Starman

Ah, true, I could do N in Minkolang for one byte as well.

SuperJedi224

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Hi

El'endia Starman

I'm not sure if that counts as a "built-in" though...

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@SuperJedi224 Hi! :D

Thomas Kwa

I think oeis.org/A000009 could actually work as a challenge. Partitions into distinct parts.

Alex A.

9:46 PM

I hope no one thought I was serious about making a "print a sequence of zeroes" catalog.

quartata

@AlexA. Already sandboxed

El'endia Starman

Infinite zeros except for the first one.

quartata

Print hella zeros with no zeroes in ur cod byte output ok catalog snippet

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@quartata o-o

@El'endiaStarman wait 0^0 = 1?!

quartata

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Yeah.

TimmyD

9:48 PM

@SuperJedi224 Hmm ... I think you may have me on the character-output challenge

Thomas Kwa

0^0 algebraically is undefined.

mınxomaτ

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ So?

quartata

Well, it depends...

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@ThomasKwa Oh. That's why I was confused :P

SuperJedi224

Sod. TI Connect is complaining that my calculator's low on battery.

TimmyD

9:48 PM

I'm not sure where I'm going to come up with another 14 bytes

Thomas Kwa

0^0 combinatorially, however, means "take a list of zero 0's, and multiply them together"

SuperJedi224

So I guess I can't reinstall that stuff yet.

Thomas Kwa

and the empty product is 1.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Huh. Intriguing.

mınxomaτ

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Don't you know the universal mathematical conditional expression?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

9:49 PM

@mınxomaτ Universal is subjective.

Alex A.

No, universal is universal.

Thomas Kwa

Knuth said 0^0 ought to be 1, but that's in discrete math.

TimmyD

> No, this is Patrick.

Thomas Kwa

@SuperJedi224 Are you writing something in TI-BASIC?

Alex A.

I am not a Krusty Krab.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

9:50 PM

@AlexA. Yeah. But "universal" differs from field to field.

Kevin W.

according to GHCi, 0^0=1. That's good enough for me

mınxomaτ

$user image$

TimmyD

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ So you're saying we need a universal-universal ... a meta-universal

SuperJedi224

@ThomasKwa I accidentally uninstalled a bunch of apps from my calculator. I'm trying to reinstall them. TI-Connect won't let me because my calculator is apparently low on battery.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@TimmyD ... yes.

Thomas Kwa

9:51 PM

@SuperJedi224 Mm

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

But that, of course, differs from each meta-field...

mınxomaτ

Is used to describe any computer algorithm trivially that relies on "IF" conditions.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@mınxomaτ :D You used codecogs!

mınxomaτ

I showed you that :P

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

No you didn't :P

I've used it for a long time

TimmyD

9:53 PM

Meta-universal is obviously Galois theory.

mınxomaτ

For this chat here anyway.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@TimmyD Google -> Galois theory -> Let F be the splitting field of a separable polynomial over the field K, and let G = Gal(F/K). (a) There is a one-to-one order-reversing correspondence between subgroups of G and subfields of F that contain K: (i) If H is a subgroup of G, then the corresponding subfield is FH, and.

wat

Thomas Kwa

Well, I failed another Pyth answer

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

One does not simply end a sentence with "and."

Thomas Kwa

I should learn to Pyth better.

mınxomaτ

9:54 PM

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Anyway, based on that simple function it is possible to generate a provably correct mathematical representation for every possible program.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@mınxomaτ import itertools

How does that look in math? :P

Though I get what you're saying. Indeed cool ^_^

mınxomaτ

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ That is not a program. An import statement get optimized away before execution because it doesn't contain running code.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@mınxomaτ True enough.

feersum

Python imports can run code.

import __hello__

mınxomaτ

@feersum Indeed. But Brien's doesnt.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

9:56 PM

I always represented IF as a case statement. I like the delta function :D

@mınxomaτ who? .__.

mınxomaτ

...

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Just making sure.

._________.

Zgarb

Universal property

In various branches of mathematics, a useful construction is often viewed as the “most efficient solution” to a certain problem. The definition of a universal property uses the language of category theory to make this notion precise and to study it abstractly. This article gives a general treatment of universal properties. To understand the concept, it is useful to study several examples first, of which there are many: all free objects, direct product and direct sum, free group, free lattice, Grothendieck group, Dedekind-MacNeille completion, product topology, Stone–Čech compactification, tensor...

mınxomaτ

I do have a complex program that compiled BASIC pseudo-code to a mathematical formula. Still working on it though.

El'endia Starman

> Tungsten has such a high melting point that if you dropped molten tungsten on lava the tungsten would freeze.

2

O.O

(From a Quora answer.)

feersum

9:59 PM

How is it surprising that tungsten can have a higher melting point than some other random rock?

El'endia Starman

Because lava is the go-to substance for "really hot thing".

Thomas Kwa

@El'endiaStarman That depends how hot the lava is

El'endia Starman

> lava is a liquid at temperatures from 700 to 1,200 °C

> Tungsten/Melting point: 3,422°C

Alex A.

o dam lava is gas at more degry then that

Thomas Kwa

Hmm, that isn't very hot

New Sandboxed Posts

10:04 PM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Number of strict partitions of a positive integer code-golf math partitions Given an integer, output the corresponding term of OEIS A000009. [TODO: Everything]

mınxomaτ

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Here's an example output for the Ackermann function: jsfiddle.net/ed45e9sj

SuperJedi224

It all depends on the kind of rock

Thomas Kwa

I think gold melts hotter than 1200

Alex A.

I don't think there's a distinction between kinds of rocks when it's molten.

El'endia Starman

> The melting point for ordinary glass is around 550 degrees C

Alex A.

10:05 PM

Different kinds of rocks are formed by different environments in which magma solidifies.

Thomas Kwa

Nope, gold melts around 1050

Alex A.

Tungsten melts when I go to the gym and start flexing my sweet bod.

mınxomaτ

Tungsten melts when I drop my mixtape.

Alex A.

That's hot.

@xnor You're an undergrad at MIT, right?

SuperJedi224

Where as titanium would melt at about 880C- except for the fact that it burns at a mere 650C.

xnor

10:07 PM

@AlexA. grad student, actually

Alex A.

@xnor Oh nice, didn't know. Master's or PhD and what subject?

xnor

PhD for computer science

Alex A.

:) How far into it are you?

xnor

pretty far

Alex A.

Graduating soon?

El'endia Starman

10:08 PM

oeis.org/A000012

6

xnor

i hope so :-)

El'endia Starman

^^ All 1s.

Alex A.

:D

Have you finished your dissertation?

What's your area of research?

xnor

dissertations are kind-of weird in my field

there's not usually one project that's the dissertation, but rather you cobble it together from bits of works you've done that have a common thread, or that you claim to

though it seems some theses are really just multiple topics concatenated

i have results that i plan to cobble together

ev3commander

@El'endiaStarman oeis.org/A007395 oeis.org/A010701

Alex A.

10:11 PM

Double OEIS, double ping. Legit.

ev3commander

@AlexA not my fault i didn't know the direct reply automatically ping

s

ETHproductions

@ev3 Bot is back up :)

ev3commander

:)

xnor

i like how the OEIS still cites all the about facts about the constant sequences

"1/3 = 0.33333333333333333333333333333333333333333333... [Bruno Berselli, Mar 21 2014]"

El'endia Starman

@ev3commander Bahaha.

Alex A.

10:13 PM

@xnor Nice. :) What's the general topic, e.g. graphics, machine learning, whatever?

xnor

mostly quantum computing

Alex A.

@xnor On Bruno's resume: "Contributor to OEIS."

9

xnor

the theoretical kind, not the kind that's building one

Alex A.

O.O

That sounds awesome

xnor

maybe if bruno gets a research grant, he will be able to crank out yet more digits in 2015

Optimizer

10:14 PM

anyone watching supergirl here?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

no

2

Optimizer

@xnor pretty sure he'll hit a limit with the current technology

RikerW

@xnor has he had any success?

xnor

@Optimizer i hear there's new advances though with an alternative method: Table[3, {100}] (* Wesley Ivan Hurt, Jul 16 2014 *)

Optimizer

@AlexA. umm, badly ninja'd?

Alex A.

10:16 PM

Oh damn

xnor

3 months after bruno's

quintopia

@Dennis do AGM in Jelly!

xnor

researchers hypethesize a connection to oeis.org/A007395 upon changing the first argument

but it's all speculative at this point

quartata

@xnor LOL

Optimizer

> Over 4500 articles have referenced us

quartata

10:18 PM

@quintopia I don't know if we have a recursive function a la APL yet

Optimizer

that's not a huge number, is it?

ev3commander

@El'endiaStarman oeis.org/A010716 oeis.org/A010727 oeis.org/A010722 oeis.org/A010709

Optimizer

where are the rest infinite constant sequences?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

OEIS should have meta sequences.

El'endia Starman

@ev3commander What's the greatest number with an infinite constant sequence in the OEIS?

ev3commander

10:20 PM

idk

xnor

Reinhard Zumkeller, May 06 2012: A010701(n) = A040000(n) + A054977(n)

ev3commander

@El'endiaStarman at least 32 A010871

Optimizer

lets make a 9001

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

We should call it "The memetic sequence"

ev3commander

@El'endiaStarman oeis.org/…

Thomas Kwa

10:24 PM

@quintopia No control flow

ev3commander

@El'endiaStarman 32 is the most i can find

J Atkin

@ThomasKwa I'm curious as to why you awarded a bounty on my hexagonal maze question.

Thomas Kwa

Hard questions deserve bounties

quintopia

@ThomasKwa no combinators at all?

Thomas Kwa

Easy questions get more votes/effort. I'm just trying to rectify.

PhiNotPi

10:28 PM

We should make a challenge similar to the four fours puzzle but with "memematic" numbers (42, 1337, 420, 3, etc.)

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Well, my question isn't soft. Can I haz bounty?

@PhiNotPi 7, 6

Thomas Kwa

@quintopia Wait, I think I can reduce x replicated y times by (sqrt prod left) concatenated to (mean left)

No, y+1 times

J Atkin

@ThomasKwa I'll take that as a complement ;) Thanks

El'endia Starman

10:47 PM

I knew about the Rose-Littlewood paradox, but not its variation. Mind-bending.

Supertasks

►

quintopia

@ThomasKwa seems straight

El'endia Starman

@Katenkyo Sometimes. :P

Thomas Kwa

x doesn't seem to work: jelly.tryitonline.net/…

Oh, wait

I misunderstood x

Alex A.

11:03 PM

It is kind of a weird letter.

Thomas Kwa

@AlexA. Better than w, at least.

ev3commander

x?

SuperJedi224

Just cut another 21 bytes out of my basic latin character names program

\o/

ev3commander

Jelly? Wats dat?

SuperJedi224

@ev3commander It's a new golfing language, apparently

RikerW

11:09 PM

Dennis's golfing language based on J.

ev3commander

GTihub repsitory?

put a esolang page plz

RikerW

github.com/DennisMitchell/jelly

Don't think it has a esolang wiki page yet.

I think it is still a work in progress

@Dennis could probably explain it better

SuperJedi224

@JAtkin Hello

RikerW

Is it just me, or do people just chat here bc they are bored

El'endia Starman

11:26 PM

That's not the only reason I chat here.

This is a rare community of like-minded people.

9

ev3commander

cops-and-robbers challenges are like obfuscation challenges

mınxomaτ

@El'endiaStarman And a kind one, too.

Most of the time.

El'endia Starman

Oh yes, definitely. To both statements. :P

Zgarb

@ev3commander Usually yes, but not always: codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/61804/…

ev3commander

@Zgarb: You're obfuscating the language.

Zgarb

11:34 PM

Well yeah, in a sense that's true.

Thomas Kwa

Another question sandboxed

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Electrostatic potential of a string code-golf string physics In physics, like electric charges repel, and unlike charges attract. The potential energy of a system of two charges is q1*q2/d, where d is the distance between them. In this question, charges will always be +1 (signified by a +) or -...

quartata

11:50 PM

o> quack