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10:00 PM
:2729 Why not?
If you're looking forward to get shit done ingame, it's better.
 
How so?
It's just, everyone seems to be playing the main game.
 
I want to play on a multiplayer server
I have vim questions
they need answers
 
People seem to mistake Meta.Gaming.SE for MSO
 
well, in their defense, there's nothing talking about meta.SO on our site
 
10:06 PM
yay 2k rep
 
True, but still, fairly sure our meta should have no use for the [feature-request] tag
 
:2746 Why not?
The spoiler thing is a decent site-only feature request.
 
:2747 Because I can't think of a feature request that doesn't belong on MSO
Even spoiler tags could be useful for other sites
 
But not for all sites.
 
It would be implemented on all sites though.
At least, I'm fairly sure it would be
Aside from stuff related to moderation (increasing close votes) I don't see anything that shouldn't be on MSO
 
10:13 PM
a spoiler tag on SO would be inappropriate.
 
So it wouldn't be used.
 
Tsk :)
nite
 
A code tag (the indented syntax highlighted one) would be inappropriate on our site, yet it is implemented.
 
:2742 no, they don't
the purpose of meta.gaming is to act as meta.so but for people who using gaming
people who use gaming shouldn't need to know that there was a thing called Stackoverflow
they're not necessarily programmers and they probably don't care
 
No, meta.gaming is for meta-questions directly related to the gaming SE
 
10:17 PM
what they care about is the site they use
 
MSO is for anything related to StackExchange 2.0 in general.
 
:2770 WRONG
it has been used like that but that is not its purpose
and as we move away from programming that should increasingly NOT be its purpose
 
Jeff said it was
 
Jeff said it IS
 
Then which is?
 
10:18 PM
that is the current use case
that's because of legacy reasons
if someone comes to gaming and wants a feature for gaming, that is a meta.gaming question
they shouldn't have to know there is a fifth place where that question is appropriate
 
> Meta Stack Overflow will serve as the “National Capital” where we process feedback not just for Stack Overflow but for the core engine itself — while the smaller meta sites are akin to regional or state capitals.
 
I think thats a good analogy as if I want to change the income tax in WA, I would go to WA Congress, not the National congress
 
:2781 But just because something that is a good idea will need to eventually bubble up there does not mean that issue should not be raised 'locally' first.
 
If I sue someone I do so in Local court. It can always been appealed in federal court later.
 
:2782 Yes, but none of the feature requests I've seen are about Gaming, it's about the SE engine
 
10:20 PM
they are about gaming
 
To roll with the metaphor, if I want to bring something to the attention of Congress, the standard route is for me to engage my own local elected representatives to do so on my behalf.
 
they're ways people want to use gaming
they may have uses outside of gaming, or they may not
 
Granted, I know nothing about US politics, so I can't extend the analogy
 
that's a decision that should be made in meta.gaming
 
Regardless of whether the issue of my concern is an issue of explicitly local concern, or a 'national' issue.
 
10:21 PM
:2790 This might be why you're misinterperating jeff's statement
 
if a feature request is specific to one site there's a very slim chance it will be implemented, Robert has said that
 
slim != nonexistant
what's more that feature MAY EXIST
 
I know
 
if that was the case then meta.gaming is a good place to talk about it
 
so far still doesn't apply to the 21 questions on our meta
 
10:22 PM
most of those have been deleted
 
I'm talking about those that aren't only
for example
4
Q: Make this site Wii-browseable

Tobias KienzlerWikipedia, when browsed via the Wii's Internet Channel, has a nice large font view. I'd like to be able to browse Gaming.SE from a Wii in a similar fashion, too. Currently I can't even search questions or tags since the Wii uses a virtual keyboard on input fields such that search on type won't wo...

Would be implemented across the board if it was
 
while that's true for its implementation, that's not true for its discussion
discussion should take place where it is relavent
programmers aren't using the Wii to access SO, so its not relavent to them
 
Wikipedia isn't Gaming-related
 
wikipedia?
 
:2808 What does Wikipedia have to do with this?
 
10:25 PM
:2810 The fact that it was listed as an example in that question
it was a response to "Programming has nothing to do with the Wii"
 
He's giving an example of a site which impliments this
I didn't say programming has nothing to do
 
Yes, you're giving an example of a site which might not
 
I said programmers aren't using
gamers are using the wii to access wikipedia
 
what about Cooking.SE just to give an example? I can imagine people using a wii to access that
 
so that's useful for wikipedia as gamers make up part of the people who use it
really?
I don't think most chef's are using the wii to access cooking.se?
I think that's a tiny minority
 
10:26 PM
I didn't say that
 
here on gaming.se its a large minority
I know you didn't, its my point
 
the only thing I'm saying is that if these feature requests would be on MSO they would have not been stale for about 2 or 3 months already
 
the size of the group using it to access matters
no, they would have been rejected already
 
The issue isn't that the feature enhancement wouldn't be broadly 'useful' across the entire SE network. The issue is that the feature enhancement is substantially more useful to our subset of the network, and that we have the best demonstrated use case for such an enhancement.
 
if any of these features goes to SO it'd be rejected out of hand
 
10:28 PM
:2828 First of all you can't know that, and second, rejected != stale
MSO isn't about SO, it's about SE
 
wii is a great example, someone would say: well we should get it on the iphone first
because they don't care about the wii on MSO
 
I'm not talking about SO
 
:2832 all meta sites are about SE
 
:2836 Cross-posting on 20+ sites goes a bit far don't you think?
 
why would you cross post it? why wouldn't you discuss it on the relevant site and then escalate as necessary?
Why am I arguing with you about this?
 
10:29 PM
:2838 I wouldn't cross-post it, I would post it on MSO
 
you don't like, it vote to close
 
:2839 That I don't know
 
I think you'll find the rest of us have the opposite approach
 
:2841 I want them to get attention, not sit stale in our meta where nobody looks at it
 
:2837 But you don't need to cross post on 20+ sites? The only site you would ever want to cross post onto is MSO, and only after you've discussed the issue to such a degree on the 'local' meta that you can not only raise the issue, but point to fairly broad community support (or lack thereof for those that deny the request).
 
10:30 PM
trust me, jeff looks at every [feature-request] on all 20+ sites
 
:2845 I don't want to cross-post, I want it to be on MSO in the first place
:2846 I know, but there's not sufficient discussion on our meta
 
there is no reason it should be on MSO till it is vetted here first
 
since there's no [status-declined] tags either
 
:2848 then its not a big enough issue to matter
 
:2848 And shoving content away from our meta does nothing to foster it.
 
10:31 PM
game, set and match
 
:2854 Makes up less than 10% of the feature requests
I'm talking about the other 90%
 
less than 10% have received enough attention to matter
 
exactly
 
if one person wants a feature that doesn't mean it should be evaluated
 
on MSO they would get that attention
 
10:32 PM
:2861 you have no reason to believe this is true
what's more they'd probably get negative attention
 
:2862 Nor do you that it will be rejected, you've claimed that before
 
:2861 I don't see how getting a bunch of downvotes and a [Status-Declined] tag makes a post more valid or more useful.
 
since MSO largely cares about features which affect them
:2864 I have case examples
 
39
Q: Can Steam be added as an OpenID provider?

Joe LudwigObviously anyone can just put http://steamcommunity.com/openid into the generic OpenID field, but a nice button would be good to make it easier for PC gamers to sign in. Nice buttons are available here: http://steamcommunity.com/dev (Just so no one thinks I'm trying to be sneaky, I should mentio...

Has 33 upvotes and even an answer from Jeff
but nothing is done with it
granted, this is gaming specific
but why is there no further response?
 
probably because jeff has other priorities?
putting that same question on MSO won't magically get it done
 
10:34 PM
look at the req page on meta
many higher than 33 upvotes
 
We have a req page?
 
Oh, on that Meta. I thought you meant that we had a req page
 
Steam openID is a bad example, that's not broken on our end, its broken on steams, and the Steam employee DID follow up on MSO.
 
:2880 was
It works on my end anyway
 
10:37 PM
hmm... I need to go look at it again.
 
Look the bottom line here, is there is no reason that we shouldn't first discuss these things on meta.gaming to figure out if they're worthwhile before going to Jeff (or MSO)
if a request is not getting a discussion chances are its because not enough epople care about it
 
But only for those things that are truly Gaming specific
 
no, I think in general
if its not relevant here, its not relevant for over arching SE or should be brought up where it is relevant
 
So if I want to request that there would be a tab with only my interesting questions, I should ask on Gaming.SE first because I happen to want it there?
 
@ArdaXi you're asking the average user to do something that they don't know they should do. jeff says over and over and over... don't make me think. Let them post it on our meta and let us raise it to MSO if its worthy.
 
10:41 PM
:2889 yes. If not enough people care here that means either a) it doesn't matter, or b) its not relevent to gaming.se
 
you know better, feel free to go straight to MSO, but the average new user is not going to know MSO exists, so they post it here
them posting the question here may not be better, but it is necessary. How are we going to stop them. Instead, we build a system to deal with it.
 
And on top of all of that, I think it's in the interest of our own community to have a healthy meta site with some attention and discussion. If allowing feature requests to bubble up from there helps make that happen, then it's in our interest to do so.
 
Hey, anyone want to know what Jeff Atwood has to say about asking these on our Meta?
 
Pushing people away from meta.gaming will only hurt the growth of a community that desperately needs growth.
 
:2895 shoot
 
10:43 PM
:2894 But it doesn't, the inverse happens. They don't get the attention they deserve.
 
@Gracenote yes.
 
404
 
Page not found.
 
Oh, boo, that doesn't quickbox
> generally I feel the mods should escalate the requests they feel have merit to meta.so
> but I would prefer that they start on the per-site metas for feedback locally first
 
10:44 PM
It doesn't load regularly either
 
posted 1m ago
 
were you in the mod channel?
 
Well, okay, I just don't think that will lead to them getting the attention they deserve
 
I think the reason they may not be getting that attention is: they aren't good ideas
 
Since they aren't escalated to MSO, and just sit in Meta.Gaming with no activity
 
10:45 PM
I'm always in the mod channels. It's my job. ♪
 
then why aren't there any answers or comments saying: "This isn't a good idea"?
 
no one cares
I'm not sure why they would care so much about a bad idea
 
That's what Meta is for
Feedback, be that positive or negative
 
:2912 Because it's not that they're bad ideas even. They wouldn't be deleterious. They just... aren't good enough to care about.
 
now if it gained momentum, then they might care
certainly game-rec has a lot of feedback on Metagaming
 
10:47 PM
:2918 It doesn't gain momentum because nobody cares
 
and that's a terrible idea
 
Which gives us a vicious circle
 
no
 
game-rec isn't a feature-request
 
you're misunderstanding
 
10:47 PM
Speaking of which, I'm with @Oak in that we should just make a conclusive decision.
 
momentum is gained by people liking an idea
a bad idea gains no momentum
:2926 ditto
 
:2927 A bad idea should get feedback
Meta is a place for discussion
 
why "should" they?
 
I was thinking of it earlier in the day
 
Because that's how Meta works. At the very least downvotes or something
 
10:48 PM
that's not how meta works
meta works by providing a place for discussing things people want to discuss
if people don't want to discuss it, putting it in meta isn't going to magically make them want to
 
And was basically going to draw the conclusion, from our last thread, in which we haven't come up with a manageable solution that solves the problems I posed.
 
just like open sourcing code isn't going to make people magically maintain it
 
any news re: domain name, since we're talking on meta fail?
 
:2940 not yet, sorry
:2938 I think closing all game-rec is a good solution
 
So, questions we don't want on the parent site we close/delete, questions on meta we don't want we just let stagnate?
 
10:51 PM
I believe questions that stagnate of meta do because we've eviscerated them on chat over and over again without reaching consensus
 
At least we're doing better than web apps
 
I don't think we've discussed most of those feature requests on chat
 
I think I provide more activity on their Meta site than 80% of their site, and I'm not even registered.
 
:2943 I didn't say "don't want" I said "no one cares about"
 
:2948 So we do want meta questions no one cares about?
 
10:52 PM
questions "no one cares about" on gaming.se go stagnant too
 
@Arda Yes, a feature request or discussion which simply doesn't get momentum is acceptable
 
:2950 There's a difference in definition, not caring about a meta question means not being involved with the issue. Not caring about a parent question means you're not interested in the game or that particular aspect.
Yes
 
I think half my questions are basically stagnant
 
I wouldn't call that a difference, I'd say that's the same
in both cases you're not involved
what you choose to not be involved in is your own choice
 
:2956 Well, no, in this case it's subjective, so 'not caring' is an opinion
 
10:55 PM
Tumbleweed overflow!
 
in both cases its subjective
not caring is always and opinion
 
:2962 Yes, but in the case of Meta an opinion is an answer
 
My cat suggests prrmeow.com as a domain name, btw
 
Since a meta question is asking for opinions
A feature-request anyway
 
that doesn't mean it'll receive them
you can ask, but that doesn't mean you'll get an answer
 
10:56 PM
Okay, before this thing continues any further...
 
:2964 I love it
 
Someone want to fill me in on what both sides of this debate are seeking as an end goal?
 
Arda wants to move [feature-requests] (related to the SE) to MSO so they'll get more attention
 
:2971 I'd prefer feature requests that apply to the core engine to be on MSO.
 
I'm trying to explain that won't get them more attention
nor should we do it
 
10:57 PM
Cookies.
 
:2972 Don't generalise me please.
I was only talking about those which apply to the core engine.
 
happy now?
 
They will most definitely get more attention simply because MSO has more users
 
As a resident of Meta Stack Overflow, I can guarantee you that those feature requests won't get that much more attention, for 3 reasons.
 
whether or not they get more feedback is something else
 
10:59 PM
When I mentioned the spoiler markup you told me that one was for MSO...
it def isn't about the core engine.
 
1. A lot of core engine requests already exist on MSO. The "add tags to the related title suggestions" idea, the "show interesting tags", even the "Steam OpenId" are all on MSO already.
 
:2983 No, I said it would apply to the entire engine, as is discussed on that question
:2985 That's another reason I wouldn't like them on per-site metas, since they're duplicated.
 
2. Hahahahahahahahaha at the concept of things getting good measures of attention on Meta Stack Overflow.
3. We're a different audience, so we have slightly different ways of thinking than the Meta Stack Overflow community. It helps to gauge what our own thoughts are before casting it to what basically is a different country.
 
Anyway, I didn't even intend to start a debate, I just said that I didn't like the requests being stale on our meta
 
and anyway the whole discussion is prolly soon to be moot: when we go live our meta should get to have a migration path to mso. profit!
 
11:01 PM
@tzenes turned it into a debate
 
Well, they honestly won't get any less stale on Meta Stack Overflow, since half of them already are anyway. As for duplication, don't worry too much about it.
Some measure of duplication is acceptable, especially as it serves as a measure of convenience to users of Gaming to not have to walk all the way to Meta Stack Overflow.
Actually, @badp, that isn't going to happen
 
who knows, maybe we'll go live before web apps does :p
 
Request was denied under the fact that all Meta sites are going to be black holes.
So absolutely no migration facilities out of them.
 
!?
@grace, I'm not sure I understand.
 
For what it is worth, @Arda, I do understand your concerns
 
11:06 PM
anyway let me give you an umlaut as a sign of disappointment.
 
@badp I'm seeking the post, by the way
 
:2992 it takes two to tango
 
:3004 I wasn't intending to dance, I got dragged in
 
In general metas are black (grey?) holes -- once something gets migrated to meta, that's it, it can't be migrated anywhere else. This is 100% intentional, and all metas will behave this way.

(yes, you could make a case that we should support migrate-to-meta-so since that's the "national capital", perhaps.. but it feels risky to me.)
 
:3005 I wasn't aware I could drag people into conversations against their will. Maybe I can use this power on Bill O'Riely
 
11:08 PM
:3008 Well, no, I went along of course.
 
...can we please not debate about debating?
 
I thought we were debating about me not wanting to debate :S
 
would that be meta.debating?
or is that more appropriate for debating.se
 
we need meta.chat.gaming.stackexchange.com
 
That s exactly my point grace -- I'm not talking meta to site, I am talking meta to meta
 
11:10 PM
Well, Jeff finds it risky.
 
see you all on chat.meta.chat.gaming.se
 
Oh, hey, @Will. Don't think I've yet seen you around these parts (chat, that is)~
 
@Grace no, I haven't been. But with the release of Civ5 I've broken into the first page of users (along with my Civ5 nemesis bwarner), and thought I should be a little more connected to the meta/chat.
 
haha
 
Haha, well, welcome to the chat.
I wish there was rhyme or reason to my reputation climbs
Obviously, I should write a blog post on Lethal Application.
Then it'll attract people to play the game, and I can get all of... maybe... 2... possible... questions... to ask about the game...
 
11:14 PM
I wonder if I'd like Civ 5
I didn't like Civ 4, but I loved FFH
 
Reputation will always be linked to popularity, whose rhymes and reasons are hard to figure out. This is why tzenes is our local Jon Skeet, because SC2 questions are simply more popular right now.
(not that I think SC2 questions will be LESS popular in the future)
 
I think they will
 
Well, even if I can't get people to ask questions due to the lack of potential questions, I should still get people to try Lethal Application
 
Fall From Heaven
greatest Civ 4 mod ever
 
11:16 PM
Alternatively, I can write about Bunny Must Die. Now THAT game has hundreds of questions, and will put us a landmark in the niche/indie/import gaming scene.
 
I think you should do both
content can always be spread out over more time
 
I don't know, all in all, how is it I have all the rep I have, when I consider I don't have sc2 or df or civ5 or whatever it is you all get excited about :p
 
@badp I have none of those, either
 
@badp SC2 makes up 75% of my rep
so even without it I'd have ~3k
 
@tzenes But the question is, which first? This'll be my first time ever writing a blog article.
Should I go for the quick, simple-to-pick-up, strange-difficulty-curve game that has extremely amusing mechanics?
 
11:19 PM
I start with bunny must die
its more familiar to people
 
Or should I go for the devastating, painful puzzle game where skill dominates and the game also has interesting mechanics
...seriously? BMD is more familiar to people? I don't even know how that is possible
 
Whichever you know/love better. You'll be working to figure out how to write in the new form, so if you can lessen the thinking you have to do about the content/ideas, you'll do better.
 
well look at the basic game play, its very Castlevania
now there are all these new things about it, but the basic concept is familiar
 
you should go with games we also have or can get, grace
 
I can only screenshot on my computer. I don't know how to do such a thing to a TV
 
11:21 PM
otherwise we can't answer, duh :)
 
As such, the only things I could reasonably write about would be computer games.
Hah, I'm not expecting answerers
If people actually have the determination to stick with it, BMD will attract a very good amount of questions.
LA is less complex to write about, though, thinking on @Will 's suggestion.
 
there _is_a q about tv capture
 
No secrets to worry about treading on. Short game, I know where the demo is, and it's simple to get into
...for a vertical scrolling shooter where you cannot jump or fly
@badp That question suggests FRAPS (without telling me how I might set it up on my TV instead of my laptop), DVR (no budget), Pinnacle Dazzle (no budget), and to play Halo or Skate.
 
@Grace to record from your TV to your Computer you need to out put the data from the tv (through some means like coaxial or rca) into your computer (usually to the graphics card) and record from there
if you can't plug the out put of your tv into the input of your computer (which most computers can't) then you're out of luck
 
Woo! Out of luck!
In that case, I'm going to beat more dragons out of people.
 
11:34 PM
sweet
 
And milky ways. Those are also necessary.
 
normally I just look on youtube for videos of what I want
 
:3066 Now I want to find a Piñata full of candy. Mainly for the candy.
 
I wish apple didn't patent its touchscreen technology. the ones the rest of the world is stuck really are a crime vs humanity
 
I actually like some of the other ones better
especially the ones where I can use a pen
 
11:36 PM
@Less I could be beating the taiyaki and lollipops out of enemies, but I'm not in a Sweets phase right now
 
I'm getting tired of typos on this virtual keyboard
 
I have that problem with my ipad
 
...despite having Etna on my team, as it were
 
apple really needs swype
 
11:38 PM
it'd help if chat didn't go screw you every once in a while.
 
@tzenes: Agreed re: ability to use stylus. I hate capacitive screens. I have long fingernails so it's harder for me to use them comfortably.
 
This is a sick beat, bro.
so chill
 
one stylus is slower than two thumbs
screw you chat
stop swallowing my messages!
grrrrrrrrrrrr
l should learn how handwriting works prolly.
lf done right it should be faster than normal input
pity it isn't.
qhlj ls hdvv toxt would dppzpr lf idldnlt stop to flo pvpvg socond typo.
lw\th hzndwrltlng thot ls
it dlmost is d dlffrrono lcnyuagp whprp oll thp vowpls drp scrpnpd.
 
11:59 PM
"This is how text would appear if I didn't stop to fix every second typo | with handwriting that is | it almost is a different language where all the vowels are scorpions"
3
 
Scorpions would make pretty awesome vowels tbqh.
 
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