TRPG General Chat

2:44 AM

I just read about someone suggesting the iconic skill of an iconic Jedi is their skill with a light saber.

[clutches heart, collapses groaning about Obi Wan and Yoda barely even using theirs and Luke being terrible with his, and prequels that should not have been]

Pixie

3:00 AM

... huh. My cat just deleted my GW2 icon and then tried to open it 22 times.

Iron Heart

huh.

Pixie

Likely with her butt. She's pretty talented that way.

BESW

@doppelgreener I'm pretty sure the iconic skill of an iconic Jedi is staring into middle distance pensively.

BESW

3:42 AM

...I just noticed Umdaar is "A World of Adventure for Fate Core." Lies.

doppelgreener

@BESW Oh yes.

By the sequels I was thinking more along the lines of mystical mind powers though.

I had cause in a conversation yesterday to actually consider the position of jedi and sith in the universe presented by the original trilogy (and only taking into account the middle trilogy): there could be nothing but very few jedi, and far between.

There's a captain on the Death Star who belittles Vader for effectively engaging in tactics of sorcery, who believes he's some deluded fool. Only some of the people on that ship have actually seen Vader do anything to demonstrate the force has any real substance, and one of those has seen it enough he's just all "hey, knock it off." Actual force users must be extremely few and far between, and effectively eccentrics.

There also could not really have been any significant mass of them in recent history. Sounds like whatever the jedi religion is, the stuff about the force having any substance in real life to the average person must have had time to dwindle to nothing but legends in the eyes of most people, including high-ranked military personnel (who'd happily weaponise such a thing).

(Thus, the original trilogy contradicts and precludes the ideas the prequels present about the population and political standing of the jedi order only 2-3 decades prior.)

BESW

I have an alternate interpretation. The guy who calls Vader's use of the Force "sorcery" doesn't actually say it's tricks or fakery. He says, "Your sad devotion to that ancient Jedi religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes, or given you enough clairvoyance to find the rebels' hidden fortress."

In the context of the Jedis being wiped out by (relatively) ordinary soldiers, and a subsequent propaganda campaign by the Empire, it's quite reasonable for Admiral Motti to consider Force powers real but pathetic.

doppelgreener

(transcript of this particular verbal exchange from the movie)

BESW

He's saying "Yeah, you can do fancy tricks, but what good has it done you? Technology gets results."

doppelgreener

@BESW The notion of a propaganda campaign by the Empire making Jedi stuff seem pathetic is fair.

BESW

3:58 AM

When Vader says, "The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force," everyone in the room knows that thousands of Force-users were slaughtered by guys with guns. In the light of recent history, what he says DOES sound ridiculous.

Adeptus

In the trailers for the new movie, it sounds like the Force has been forgotten again, after 30(?) years

BESW

@Adeptus That's actually a little more plausible, depending on what they do with the newly open history post-VI.

That'll be something like... fifty years since the Force was publicly represented by anyone except Vader.

Within living memory, but depending on societal pressures... remember that it's the young characters who don't know about the Force.

doppelgreener

I'll be honest, I liked having an interpretation that precluded the notions of the prequel as incorrect and implausible.

BESW

@doppelgreener It's attractive, yes. And not impossible. Just... not unassailable.

doppelgreener

@BESW Of course, the prequels were convoluted enough there's vague justification for various connections.

Miniman

4:16 AM

@doppelgreener Well, Lucas has said that the series is theoretically seen through the eyes of R2-D2 and C-3PO, right? And we already know that their memories have been tampered with once, so...

doppelgreener

4:39 AM

@Miniman ... He has?

Adeptus

@doppelgreener Yes. One of the inspirations was a (series of?) Japanese film(s) about the adventures of a pair of slaves. Droids being an obvious slave-analog in SW.

BESW

> George Lucas has acknowledged heavy influence of The Hidden Fortress on Star Wars particularly in the technique of telling the story from the perspective of the film's lowliest characters, C-3PO and R2-D2. (source)

BESW

4:59 AM

...I'm not sure if that can be taken to imply that Lucas also adopted Kurosawa's interest in the unreliable narrator.

Miniman

@BESW No, and it's not at all supported, but I find re-interpreting the prequels as someone's corrupted memory, hallucination, or bad dream very appealing.

Adeptus

Star Wars Hidden Fortress Comparison

►

doppelgreener

@Miniman Luke jerks up out of bed in a cold sweat. Beru Lars hears him in the kitchen, comes down and asks him what the matter is. He tells her of a terrible nightmare with awful things happening, and none of it made any sense at all. She helps him make a snack, talks with him reminiscing about the old days, how those dreams make no sense at all because the Empire has been a dictatorship for centuries, they have a conversation about that weird Old Ben guy, and then both go back to bed.

Miniman

@doppelgreener See, since Obi-Wan was the only one there for the whole thing from beginning to end, I figure as he sat in his hut chewing death sticks and got slowly crazier, his real memories of the Clone Wars slowly turned into what we see on the screen.

Which is why "You don't wanna sell me death sticks. You want to go home and re-think your life." is the most significant moment of the prequel movies.

doppelgreener

5:17 AM

@Miniman Oh my gosh. Are you suggesting the story's told from the perspective of someone who got into death sticks and wishes they hadn't at that first opportunity?

Miniman

@doppelgreener I'm throwing it out there as a possibility. And the prequels being Obi-Wan's story rather than anyone else's makes a lot of sense, really.

BESW

So... you're casting Old Man McGucket as Obi-Wan.

trogdor

lol

Miniman

A friend of mine firmly believes that the prequels should have been the story of Obi-Wan struggling to deal with the fallout of the promise he made to his dying master and watching as the student he has tried so hard to teach well rejects his teachings and falls to evil, rather than the story of Anakin falling to evil through a mixture of teenage rebellion, bad judgement, and being incredibly stupid.

Yuuki

Probably because there was a series of fairly popular YouTube videos making a similar plotline.

Miniman

5:24 AM

@Yuuki Which one?

Adeptus

@BESW You darn kids! Get off my ~~lawn~~ sand!

Yuuki

WHAT IF "STAR WARS: EPISODE I" WAS GOOD? (Belated Media)

►

Miniman

@Yuuki I meant "which plotline", but that's even better :P

Yuuki

Really, the only problem with the prequels is Lucas.

Everyone else (yes, even Christensen) wasn't all that bad.

Jake Lloyd was a kid. Child actors are hit-and-miss. Jar Jar was pretty much Lucas's idea. And if you've seen Christensen in other movies, he's actually pretty good.

He just needs a competent director. Or at the very least a director who isn't deluded off his own ego.

Miniman

@Yuuki Yeah, I wouldn't judge any actor by their delivery of those lines.

PSA: I know the secret chat cabal decided to stop doing this, but this could really use a final close vote. It already has two equally-valid answers, and there's plenty of room for more.

Yuuki

5:34 AM

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA IT'S HERE

Miniman

@Yuuki ?

Yuuki

Fallout 4.

doppelgreener

@Miniman Plinkett from Red Letter Media suggested (a) merging Qui-gon Jin and Obi-Wan Kenobi into one character, called Obi-Wan Kenobi; (b) actually keeping Darth Maul around and using him as the perpetual clearly positioned villain and actually making him the main villain.

and, y'know, Sidius in the background.

(but also the entire plot of episode I made no sense at all, quite demonstrably, so we just replace it with a different plot, starring Obi-Wan and Darth Maul)

trogdor

@doppelgreener I do see a use of having Qui-gon actually existing if Darth Maul survives though

which he technically does, just not in the movies

Miniman

@doppelgreener Yeah, the whole of the third movie seemed to be focused on undermining Sidious as a manipulator who worked in the background.

Half an hour or so in when he's like "Hey Anakin! I'm a Sith Lord! Yeah, one of the legendary evil Force-users who the Jedi thought were wiped out! That's me!" I actually physically facepalmed.

doppelgreener

5:43 AM

@trogdor qui-gon was redundant on account of having no character and most of his suggestions being ostensibly disastrous ("let's go down with the army to warn naboo of the army we are arriving with", "let's spit up onto different ships we can't be assured will land within a thousand miles of each other", "instead of doing what we came here to do and warn the naboo, let's follow this gungan in the opposite direction", "let's run the blockade with just this one ship", etc)

trogdor

@doppelgreener I agree that Qui-gon could have been handled differently

doppelgreener

that's an understatement c(:

trogdor

even drastically so, but his characters existence, and the fact that he gets killed by Darth Maul, is very good motivation for Obi-Wan

Miniman

@doppelgreener This reminds me once again of how much more sense Darths and Droids makes than the movies.

trogdor

the fact that I think his existence itself isn't a mistake does not mean I think he was made/handled perfectly as he was

or even close

doppelgreener

5:47 AM

@trogdor understood

It just struck me that Qui-gon being struck down by a sith disciple was pretty much probably just meant to copy the Darth Vader / Obi Wan thing Luke witnessed.

Miniman

@doppelgreener So Darth Maul should have been Obi-Wan's mentor? Interesting.

trogdor

uh, you mean when Obi Wan lets himself get killed?

doppelgreener

[corrects]

doppelgreener

6:02 AM

@trogdor Like how Luke's mentor is killed by a Sith apprentice. Not so much whether they let themselves get killed or not.

trogdor

I wasn't connecting that part

just stating that he did die because he let himself get killed, in that instance

doppelgreener

mmhm

that part then yeah

trogdor

obviously that is not something connecting the two things, it is a difference

BESW

6:21 AM

BTW, @doppelgreener. I've got an idea for Blake that I wondering if you could work with.

doppelgreener

@BESW Shoot!

And/or shoot it on skype.

trogdor

don't listen to him!!!!

XD

BESW

Simply that he's one of the first of the New Knights of the Round Table. There are new threats to Britain and new counterparts to her ancient defenders are being raised up.

doppelgreener

[listening so hard]

BESW

The New Round Table doesn't necessarily have any specific tradtions in common with the Old Table except inasmuch as it's a group of divinely-inspired mortal heroes championing what is Good and defending British soil from what is Evil.

doppelgreener

6:24 AM

This sounds great.

BESW

That's about all I've got. I look forward to seeing what, if anything, you make of it. I'm envisioning the New Table as a potential ally or rival in our main campaign.

trogdor

it could be both honestly

BESW

Absolutely.

trogdor

just cause we are all good guys doesn't mean we easily work together

or trust each other

BESW

Specifically for the upcoming session, Blake may have a very firm idea about what the New Knights should be like, or he could be uncertain. Being alone as one of the first Knights, anointed in the middle of conflict, he's on his own to discover his new identity for now.

doppelgreener

6:29 AM

@BESW I'll ponder this stuff and leave it as a surprise that'll come out in play for all of us.

BESW

The only thing I really want to see is that the New Table is different from the Old Table.

How it's different, I don't really have any preferences or even much in the way of solid ideas.

trogdor

how does all this explain why he has a weapon that counts as monster's weaknesses?

doppelgreener

The old table was characterised by being a medieval organisation in the age of knights. No doubt this one will be different.

@trogdor He's The Divine, comes with the job.

trogdor

cause that is kind of a plot point after we already spent the time we did unable to hurt them

@doppelgreener yes but how is he the Divine if he is just appointed by some government agency or something?

doppelgreener

@trogdor He's not appointed by a government agency.

trogdor

6:33 AM

ah

doppelgreener

He's lost in the tunnels and literally experiences a divine visitation or sudden vestige of power or something and boom, Corporal Blake has become The Divine and the first Knight of the Round.

trogdor

cool

doppelgreener

(remembering that the Knights of the Round - at least in the legends - are chosen by divine powers, not chosen by fellow men or the Round Table agency)

BESW

Yup, that's the general idea.

Pixie

6:55 AM

A criminal in action.

trogdor

oh man

I had one of those as a kid

I still do actually but it just sits on my shelf now XD

I am glad a cat didn't steal it

Pixie

Just watch out for those cat burglars who burgle cats.

trogdor

yeah

those sneaky cats

thankfully my cats are too fat to get up that high

Pixie

My plushes are safe from the cats, but George has stolen ponies before.

Derpy

8:09 AM

@Pixie That is why 4de plushes should be stored under a glass container

Pixie

@Derpy 4DEs would be safe. It's the hair he wants.

Derpy

8:25 AM

@Pixie Do you know those fake chickens that are sold at Easter and usually have real feathers? Ever saw a cat reaction to those?

Pixie

Little fuzzy chicks? Yeah. One of the more common cat toys around here is a similar kind of mouse. They like carrying those around, too.

Derpy

8:36 AM

?

Pixie

Like that, and there's a fuzzy variant‌.

Derpy

We have those too, but my cats don't seem particularly interested.

Pixie

Depends on the cat, really. They have preferences. It's funny.

Derpy

8:55 AM

@Pixie they would just eat the feathers and leave the mouse.

trogdor

9:23 AM

none of my pony stuff has hair

they are all pretty cheap though

plus I also keep them out of cat reach anyway

and on top of that my cats are lazy as all hell

they don't even show much interest in most cat toys

Derpy

There are only two kinds of plush worth buying for me. The 4de ones and the ones from OlyFactory (these are actually botleg versions, that for a pretty ridiculous situation happen to be far better than most of the licensed ones) - and both cost a lot where I live.

That said, the only two plushes I have come from an anime con I attended last year, and are a sort of chibi form of 'Shy and Dashie. Still haven't found out the company that made those.

Also, a little disclaimer for any user here that may get stuck in a BESW experimental game after the idea I fear I may have given him in the other room. I'm sorry :P

trogdor

9:38 AM

it seems pretty impossible to find actual good plushes here

granted, I have not looked too hard

all I have are some plastic figures

Derpy

That's is why they are pricey. The only way to buy those is amazon, and the sellers know that. So prices are inflated. A lot.

Pixie

I plan to order the 4DEs eventually, but I haven't gotten around to it. I have a few of the... I forget what brands, but there are ones with sewn manes and ones with felt strips.

trogdor

yeaaah

not interested in spending that kind of money myself

Pixie

All my frivolous money for the month or so is currently going to bird boyfriends.

trogdor

oh

lol, I didn't even know what you were talking about at first

hatoful boyfriend of course

Pixie

9:45 AM

Haha, sorry. That's how I often refer to them. xD

trogdor

do they have figurines?

or something?

Pixie

Not at present.

BESW

Nov 3 at 8:55, by Pixie

I'm not sure if anyone else here likes Hatoful Boyfriend beyond passing interest in Ursula Vernon's tweets of it, but there's a plush kickstarter.

Pixie

The plush kickstarter hit all its current stretch goals, so... [counts]

trogdor

ah ok I see

Pixie

9:47 AM

If I back for everything that's going to be... 9 plushes, I think.

trogdor

wow

that is a lot

Pixie

I hope and don't hope there will be more (because ow, wallet), but they've got the main cast covered now.

Pixie

10:05 AM

This is what I will look like afterward.

trogdor

lol

Derpy

@Pixie I guess your favorite One Piece character is Rob Lucci.... pigeon Hattori

Pixie

@Derpy Hmm. Lacks charisma.

I guess that's a pretty sharp coat, though.

Derpy

@Pixie and don't forget the stylish tie. Although, Koro Sensei one is far superior, with the crescent moon emblem and all.

Pixie

@Derpy For stylish ties, clearly Yuuya is the winner. So suave.

Derpy

10:28 AM

@Pixie Koro Sensei has the added alien octopus bonus

Joshua Aslan Smith

2:18 PM

Guten morgen

Magician

2:40 PM

@JoshuaAslanSmith Still mine.

Joshua Aslan Smith

3:01 PM

lol

Joshua Aslan Smith

3:47 PM

there are just a lot of questions that are way too broad

Derpy

Directly from Worldbuilding, from a question arguing the credibility of a Creeper specie: behold the exploding ant

Camponotus saundersi

Camponotus saundersi is a species of ant found in Malaysia and Brunei, belonging to the genus of Carpenter ants. Workers can explode suicidally as an ultimate act of defense, an ability it has in common with several other species in this genus and a few other insects. The ant has an enormously enlarged mandibular (jaw) gland, many times the size of a normal ant, which produces defense adhesive secretions. == Defenses == Its defensive behaviours include self-destruction by autothysis, a term coined by Maschwitz and Maschwitz (1974). Two oversized, poison-filled mandibular glands run the en...

Interesting side note, the Solen ant from Ultima Online used to have a similar last attack - on death, they would spill an acid on the ground, damaging any player that would walk on it.

Derpy

4:20 PM

There is also an ongoing LoTR discussion on the Mos Eisley board. Worth a look if some of you remember the old '77 carton adaptation. Start here

Quick sample:

in Mos Eisley, 21 mins ago, by Wad Cheber

Sandwich

I vectored Muffet from Undertale

The Oracle

5:54 PM

1

Q: Let's talk about 8chan

In our faq “I've been told my question is better suited to a forum, but where should I go?”, an answer was posted recently suggesting people might find 8chan a useful discussion site. The usual notes and warnings about *chans were given — radical anonymity is both a pro and a con, frothing creati...

The Oracle

7:09 PM

1

Q: LaTeX for RPG.SE and Statistics Posts

The nature of tabletops overlaps a lot with statistics to the point where being able to simply write minor mathematical expressions would be beneficial to conveying simple mathematical explanations. For example, Math.SE has a plugin that allows for the direct in-line use of LaTeX within answer an...

discussion feature-request

Zachiel

@JoshuaAslanSmith no worries. I have optimizers in my group.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@besw this may amuse you io9.com/…

@Zachiel just wanted to lend a hand I dont play 5e with my group anymore but I do love me some optimizing

Zachiel

7:37 PM

@JoshuaAslanSmith it was 4e

Joshua Aslan Smith

8:10 PM

@Zachiel typo on my part

gatherer818

11:01 PM

So, I googled Dungeons: the dragoning while trying to answer my own question, and found a chart that I'm not even sure I'm allowed to describe obliquely. I can't even find a way to describe it delicately. You are warned: CANNOT UNSEE.

eimyr

@gatherer818 a chart?

gatherer818

@eimyr a chart I've never even considered might exist, despite having gone through my adolescence as a RPGer.

eimyr

and what did it depict?

or describe?

gatherer818

a d100 roll, with modifiers for familiarity with certain bedroom activities and references comparing objects to anatomy; the end result of which determining whether said anatomy would be torn by that object.

I'm still not sure I sanitized that description enough, but it'll have to do.

eimyr

did you for some reason end up reading tables from FATAL?

also, don't google it

it's basically a game about rape fantasies

mentioning is a mistake, but actually looking it leads to very disturbing results

gatherer818

11:17 PM

I was trying to find out what game this chart was from. I find it likely your guess was right.

eimyr

I think so... they've had a circumference stat that determined resistance to certain kinds of explosions

aaaand an additional ring slot.

yes.

gatherer818

..... I'm still laughing at "certain kinds of explosions". I'm so juvenile. Apparently my shocking news isn't that shocking, I'm just last to know as usual :P

eimyr

well, your Dungeon: the Dragoning comes from 4chan

it was an april fools "homebrew" joke, they were taking the piss out of both DnD and White Wolf game lines

surprisingly, FATAL was not conceived by them but in hindsight it very well could have been

gatherer818

I managed to answer my own question, though. I briefly debated leaving the question up and self-answering just to give the system a little exposure, but decided against it. Turns out there's an easier way to identify a game from a character sheet than guessing different games and comparing their sheets or googling all the stats on the sheet at once and hoping the right game shows up.... I searched for the character's name and found the forum thread he belonged to :/

eimyr

what was the question though?

Oh man

@Emrakul is here to ban me

I knew I shouldn't have discussed FATAL. Goodbye, community.

2

user61230

11:32 PM

You said "piss!" [suspends]

gatherer818

Oh, I found an old character sheet on my computer and was trying to figure out what game the character belonged to.

eimyr

Oh, that's interesting. I had a similar situation recently, but instead of looking for a game, I looked for character descriptions.

gatherer818

(turned out it was Absolute Power, which is probably a game you've never heard of, unfortunately.)

eimyr

very true, never heard of it

is it hipster?

gatherer818

nah, I think it was just never completed.

eimyr

11:35 PM

@Emrakul I think there should be a rule on the chat though. Do not discuss holocaust, rape, pedophilia or FATAL.

well, the last one would already be covered by the former

gatherer818

the game I was playing in was a sort of "alpha playtest", with the game's developer as GM (Historian, in the game's lingo, which is kinda cool)

eimyr

mhm

Confession bear time: my mate wrote an rpg once, but never published. I was interested, as he was a very good dude and all around a creative person. He gave the book pdf to me - I looked at the name and the map and was so disappointed by the corny names that I never got around to reading it.

gatherer818

heh. I have a friend trying to write one. But he's unfocused - he knows he's dissatisfied with something about existing RPGs, and he keeps asking us for input, but he can't describe what it is he wants to do differently.

so he's basically reinventing all the wheels.

eimyr

is that guy high-school age?

Because it sounds very high-school age.

gatherer818

nope. 30-ish.

eimyr

11:41 PM

At mine everyone and their dog too had a great idea how to fix everything wrong with RPGs and create the ultimate one everyone will love to play

gatherer818

if only, if only

trogdor

yeah no one knows that because it doesn't exist

everyone is looking for something different

Tritium21

Ever get the impression that someone asking "hey can I do this?" on rpg.se is only asking "tell my GM I can do this, he wont let me"

Miniman

@Tritium21 All the time...

gatherer818

Are you implying there's something wrong with that?:D

Tritium21

11:43 PM

and when you tell them no... they make their questions moving targets...

0

Q: Can a wight be blood bound? How would it behave?

So, this would be the question. The rules of the blood bond are very clear, I didn't find too much from the Wights. I think, for a vampire with enough low Humanity, it would be a highly interesting thing, making some Wights (or making some childer by illegal embraces and then tricking them thro...

vampire-the-masquerade

fyi: the answer is no

gatherer818

afraid I don't remember Wights in VtM.

Tritium21

rarely used term to describe a vampire in Wassail

(0 humanity, by rule an NPC)

Its so rarely used, I have played the game for 15 years and had to look it up

gatherer818

I don't recognize that term either, but I get 0 humanity. So he's hoping the false love created by the blood bond would override them becoming an absolute monster and let him control them?

Tritium21

this is totally 'shopping for cool in the books'

yeah, thats what they want

gatherer818

I find it rather more likely that being loved by something (it's not someone, not anymore) with a 0 Humanity likely makes you a target, not a master.

Tritium21

11:47 PM

Yeah

eimyr

this is so against the spirit of Vampire

in their place i'd just say the wight craves his regent's blood even more

Tritium21

but there is an inhernent problem... how do you forcibly strip someone of humanity?

gatherer818

more importantly, whatever you did to manage to break it down to 0 Humanity likely means you're at the very top of their list.

I'm sure if you're creative and persistent you could break a fledgling's Humanity eventually, especially if you have access to emotion-manipulating magics (make do horrible things to survive, then boost the pleasure they get from doing so until they do them because they want to instead)

Tritium21

You simply cant force someone to humanity 0. If you manipulate them to do horrific things, they have the built in self-preservation excuse to prevent degeneration. And you cannot simply do something to someone to cause degeneration at that low level...

eimyr

I thought the asker does not want to make a vampire a wight

but rather seeks to bind an existing one, be it an npc or otherwise

Tritium21

11:52 PM

No, the second paragraph lays it out: they want to embrace and bind, then break them

gatherer818

that's an interesting take, too.... but still, whether or not you can "manufacture" wights is beside the point, the bond just isn't going to be strong enough to overcome what is essentially a permanent frenzy.

So, I'm out. Ta-ta, all.

eimyr

bb

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