TRPG General Chat

Shalvenay

12:38 AM

... wonders what it'd take to make Sune's ears bleed

BESW

1:26 AM

"Do not make me quantify how bad our plans are! All our plans are bad! We do not plan well!" - #dnd

Tweeted by UrsulaV on November 3, 2015 at 1:23 AM

Miniman

1:40 AM

@BESW One of my groups invariably came up with hugely elaborate plans for any encounter where preparation was feasible. Almost all of them backfired horribly, with the exception of one that allowed them to mince a dragon and its rider without letting them get a single turn.

Shalvenay

2:31 AM

@Miniman heheh.

BESW

2:45 AM

@Miniman In the 4e adventure Thunderspire Labyrinth, there's a setpiece where a dragon traps you in a maze with a rolling boulder while he does fly-bys overhead.

My group jumped up, grabbed the dragon, grappled it to the ground in the maze, and then stood on a wall pushing it back down when it tried to escape as the boulder ran over it multiple times.

Miniman

@BESW Nice. I've often thought that the published modules are designed for players who aren't actually that good at D&D, if you see what I mean.

BESW

3:16 AM

They're definitely designed with a particular group composition in mind. Not unreasonably, they can't anticipate gimmicks like the thri-kreen who can jump 10 squares straight up and grapple a dragon three size categories bigger than itself.

Miniman

Wow, chat flags are so much trickier to assess (most of the time).

BESW

Contextlack!

I hit "not sure" a lot.

user507974

Hey guys, anybody got recommendations for early steampunk aesthetics

im aiming for a transition from gothic medieval to steampunk with no victorian in between

Adeptus

@user507974 If you want steampunk tech with gothic medieval, just combine those. Steampunk is usually alternative-Victorian, there is no "Victorian in between"

user507974

i mean i kind of want to see early steampunk to compare to victorian

kinda see how i could replicate that with gothic

likely worlds that are a decade or two into a steampunk revolution

BESW

3:31 AM

@user507974 What, like Clockpunk?

Or more like Dungeonpunk?

user507974

hmm, never heard of those two eras before, time to investigate

Adeptus

see this thread from Brass Goggles forum

BESW

It sounds like you want a Renaissance aesthetic.

user507974

im really digging the dungeonpunk article atm too

I was about to say i really digged the picture too, and saw it was from Eberron, I really need to read more of that

Pixie

@user507974 What is it you want out of steampunk? The technology, the aesthetic..? Both of those things are heavily tied to Victoriana. You can inject the technology into a medieval setting, for example, but it won't be at a medieval tech level anymore.

BESW

3:37 AM

What is it about steampunk that you like and want to preserve?

Miniman

@BESW I mean, I generally go and take a quick look at the context, but it often doesn't help much.

BESW

@Pixie Jinx.

user507974

I kind of am running with a more functional approach to magic, and want to incorporate it into technology

have more advanced transportation

BESW

The nature of *punk is to re-imagine contemporary society and technology within another era's aesthetic, with a strong emphasis on themes of underdogs co-opting the powers of the overclass.

user507974

firearm technology is ripe for revolution but it doesnt seem like it competes with the olden, magic imbued weapon tech

though that changes throughout the course of the campaign

BESW

3:40 AM

So when you say "Medieval," you mean "generic European fantasy"?

user507974

constructs that are controlled by a mix of hydraulics and telekenisis

I meant more so Gothic, mostly European and Arabic in style

Arabic not gothic but simliar era

I like the renaissance a lot and gothic naturally transitioned to that

BESW

...what era are you meaning by "Gothic"? If you mean the language, that's 9th century. If you mean the art and architecture, that's 12th to 16th.

(I assume you aren't meaning the 18th and 19th century fiction or the 20th century subculture.)

user507974

architecture

12th to 16th

BESW

But in any case, no historical reference would have indicated to us that you had anything magical in mind.

So, if you're talking 12th to 16th century in terms of Muslim culture, that straddles the defragmentation period.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@besw just saw your answer here scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/71576/… as part of my general churn to find anything on the internet to direct my science fiction appetities

user507974

3:48 AM

for simplicities sake then lets ignore arabic at the moment, its a much smaller part of the overall picture than european

Joshua Aslan Smith

enjoy that upvote

BESW

@JoshuaAslanSmith Thank you.

Joshua Aslan Smith

debating whether to pickup the 3 body problem or keep looking for something more along my lines

BESW

@user507974 Then I'm not sure what you're looking for at all. 12th to 16th century aesthetics of [insert extremely broad category] with some undefined magical element combined to re-imagine a 19th-century level of technology?

user507974

its kind of a hypothetical, envision if the dark ages hadnt been so dark

there had been incremental progress in a still feudal society, but thanks to one or two large revolutions the pillars of society got completely shaked up

BESW

3:52 AM

"The dark ages." If you're looking for an aesthetic, it's gonna have to be more specific than that. Even within a single narrow period, like the 15th century Renaissance, you get vastly different imagery depending on what part of Italy you look at, much less the Dutch or English aesthetics of the same period.

user507974

btw, this is a question ive had, is 15th renaissance italy still considered medieval?

kind of just a curiousity ive had for a while

BESW

Instead of using terms that cover upwards of 1,000 years and entire continents, how about talking about specific actual aesthetics you want to draw from?

Joshua Aslan Smith

@user507974 the dark ages is sort of an anti-middle-ages propaganda myth

user507974

in particular im hunting for gothic

gothic common builidings

cathedrals are a dime a dozen on google

a few castles

but little else is shown

Joshua Aslan Smith

@user507974 gothic as in the art movement and style around the 12th century or the descriptive term adapted by the romantic writers

BESW

3:55 AM

@user507974 "Medieval" is a nigh useless term, even more so than most eras. Time and culture aren't neat and cleanly divided, and that one covers roughly 1,000 years, with the (equally fuzzy) period called the Renaissance overlapping with its end.

user507974

architecture of the era associated with gothic architecture: as per prezi.com/iogbyuyucqkp/gothic-vs-renaissance-architecture

Joshua Aslan Smith

haha oh man prezi

BESW

These are terms invented by people later so they'd have vocabulary to talk about history, and they reflect the biases and misunderstandings of those people.

Joshua Aslan Smith

Besw seizes on the main point, historical eras are usually for thought convenience more than anything else.

user507974

yea, i understand that, and its the reason i use terms like the gothic era (w/ respect to architecture)

almost all you see on google though is cathedrals and some castles

so its hard to get a sense of the different flavors, because, again, the words are somewhat limiting

Joshua Aslan Smith

4:00 AM

@user507974 you would basically want to hunt around for art from the time period in a specific region, country or culture

BESW

Here, Wikipedia has laid out a selection of images that cover the breadth of Gothic variety.

Joshua Aslan Smith

Id focus on illustrated manuscripts and gothic triptych paintings

note, they loved themselves some gold leaf

BESW

You will notice in that article that the reason you're finding mostly buildings in the Gothic style is that it was an architectural style. Other art forms influenced by that style were generally monumental in evocation.

What are you looking for, if not architecture and art?

Pixie

That still spans 400 years, though. You want to try something like "[time period] [geographic area] [thing]". Here is a 14th century English house. Here's a 1450s English dress.

Joshua Aslan Smith

youd probably need to hit up amazon or a library for something that specific

Adeptus

4:05 AM

@BESW What I find ironic is that it was named "Gothic" in reference to the Goths, implying that the style was barbaric & uncivilised.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@Adeptus as I said, anti middle ages propaganda

BESW

You may also find multicultural steampunk resources helpful.

Beyond Victoriana and Steampunk Hands Around the World come to mind.

Pixie

(Whoops. I believe the dress I linked above is actually French, upon a second look.)

BESW

So, it sounds like you're looking for 19th-century technology imagined with the aesthetics of Gothic architecture.

user507974

id say largely so yea

BESW

4:10 AM

But you also want it to be influenced by .... some kind of magic.

user507974

are you familiar with Legend of Korra, remember how they used bending to run some of their technology

BESW

Aye.

Sandwich

The Legend of Korra took away everything that I loved about Avatar :I

user507974

its much in a similar vein to that, though with a larger platitude of options in the magic implemented

a lot of evocation style elemental magic, transmuation, telekinesis

Sandwich

Hey

user507974

4:13 AM

Yo Sandwich

Sandwich

Do you want to know who the most famous metalbender is?

Bender Bending Rodriguez

Heheheheheeee

@Sandwich Hmmm...I didn't like Avatar, maybe I should watch Korra?

Sandwich

If you didnt like the first one you might like Korra

But I loved the first one and hated Korra

I felt like it shoehorned a bunch of things into the series to try and change things

Miniman

@Sandwich On the other hand, I have a bunch of stuff to watch, so I'll probably never get around to it :)

user507974

4:16 AM

@BESW Any other further clarifications you think might help?

@Sandwich personally i liked both for different reasons

@Sandwich i felt like every season couldve used an extra 2-3 episodes though personally for pacing

BESW

@JoshuaAslanSmith What kind of thing are you looking for?

Miniman

4:42 AM

@JoshuaAslanSmith Btw, did you see today's Unearthed Arcana? Is it just me, or is Tunnel Fighter a complete game-changer?

user507974

lol wat no reaction

Adeptus

@Miniman No limit on attacks of opportunity? I can see that as being very useful in some situations.

Miniman

@Adeptus I mean, it finally makes defender builds viable.

Adeptus

I just noticed they have the long-promised conversion guide up too. Only 4 pages, I think it's less extensive than some people were expecting.

Miniman

Fun times: Tunnel Fighting, Sentinel, Polearm Master. Have a quarterstaff in one hand and a whip in the other.

user507974

4:56 AM

why the reach melee?

Miniman

@user507974 Sorry, I meant whip.

(Forgot that a quarterstaff isn't reach.)

user507974

do monks get fighting styles btw

Miniman

So you get an opportunity attack if they move from 10 feet away to 5 feet away, if they move from 5 feet away to 10 feet away, if they move from 10 feet away to 15 feet away, if they move more than 5 feet while staying within 10 feet, or if they attack anyone else. All of which reduce their movement speed to 0 if they hit.

@user507974 Nope.

Sandwich

Monks taste better with cool whip

Miniman

Now if only there was a way to get opportunity attacks when someone attacks you...

user507974

5:05 AM

what was that called?

Miniman

@user507974 What?

user507974

i thought that was a feat or an ability

Miniman

@user507974 Not one that I know of.

Mind you, I guess at that point you don't really need it. It's pretty much impossible for enemies to attack your allies, as long as your allies stay out of melee, so they're going to attack you even if it's costly to them.

Getting Mage Slayer might help, I guess.

BESW

Way I see it, a system that relies heavily on limited action-per-round economies for balance is asking for trouble the instant it gives any action the potential for "unlimited" repetition: A typical design expansion strategy is to introduce new options that take up an existing action slot, forcing interesting choices. Unlimited use of an action breaks that choice and either limits design options or creates space for significant imbalance.

Miniman

@BESW Yeah, I'll be pretty surprised if it ever becomes official.

On the other hand, the 1 per round restriction on reactions in particular makes a large number of high-cost options practically invalid.

So something along these lines (though probably not infinite) would definitely be a net benefit to the game state, I think.

The Reactive trait a few monsters have (1 reaction per turn instead of round) would make a reasonable feat.

But yeah, infinite reactions is too much, and putting it on a fighting style (relatively low-cost option) is too cheap.

user507974

5:23 AM

i can see that that close range shooter option being handy\

for certain characters

Adeptus

Looks like I missed a couple of UAs too. I'm collecting them, even though I've not yet played 5e, and have no immediate plans to do so...

user507974

also whats the difference of making it once per turn

as in once per enemies turn too

Miniman

@user507974 A round is made up of a turn for each combatant.

user507974

ok, thought so

that thing is still too strong for a fighting style even with that revision

BESW

7:35 AM

On the subject of unusual *punk, what would a solarpunk spacedock look like?

user507974

7:46 AM

could a few pockets of places in cowboy bepop count as solarpunk?

BESW

[shrug] Haven't actually watched it.

I'm looking for a mostly-organic aesthetic.

Pixie

8:49 AM

Royal Jurai spaceships in Tenchi are treeships, though the tree is placed inside the core of the ship. I seem to remember their space station being pretty organic in nature, but it's been a while. Hmm.

Jurai's Royal Arboreum. Not their space station, but cool:

I'm not sure if anyone else here likes Hatoful Boyfriend beyond passing interest in Ursula Vernon's tweets of it, but there's a plush kickstarter.

3

Pixie

9:30 AM

@doppelgreener It's the "workaround" bit that poses the problem for me with the game over in RPG question. It's easy to generalize that no, short of TPK, a loss doesn't mean starting over in almost any game system. It's how you can handle it afterward. That's awfully variable.

trogdor

@Pixie I was too,... weird-ed out by it to get past dating birds

Pixie

I can understand that reaction.

trogdor

I hear it is actually amazing (for a few different reasons some of which are heavy spoilers) but,... yeah, I hardly know anything about it

Pixie

It is pretty amazing for very spoilery reasons, yes. xD

In one of my favorite endings, spoiler.

trogdor

yeah

BESW

9:34 AM

When the pitch line is "school dating sim in which all the characters are sapient birds" and that's not the amazing part, you've got something special.

trogdor

I heard that stuff gets amazing towards the end or something

Pixie

Most of the ends are pretty funny. One is extremely sad though.

trogdor

the problem is, dating sims don't appeal to me too much to begin with, when you are dating birds,.... I don't even know man

Pixie

Hatoful is good for people who play datesims (I don't usually, either). It does not take itself seriously.

trogdor

I did play some dating sims as a teenager, and perhaps because those were mostly the same thing compared to each other,..... I didn't expect much from this

Pixie

9:37 AM

Though I suppose it does help to kinda know what you're doing in the format.

trogdor

if it was just a normal looking dating sim I would not have given it even a second look

adding the fact that all the people you date are birds,... really only tells me that you are probably playing everything for laughs

plus, it is still a date sim so I would probably need to still be occasionally playing other date sims to get some/most/all of the humor

I could watch a play-through of it or something, but that would eat a lot of time I might use for something else

Pixie

There aren't a lot of jokes that are inaccessible if you don't play datesims, though occasionally some Japanese cultural knowledge is helpful.

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