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1:00 PM
I already golfed mine by 10 bytes... I should probably write a program for this one...
The Malboge code on Wikipedia outputs "Hello World!" without the comma... damn
For future reference, if the Snippet breaks, it's because someone's incorrectly formatted their header
rp.kelly's answer just broke it
@BetaDecay huh, I was pretty sure it would just omit answers with incorrect headers
@Fatalize Copying and pasting from elsewhere? That's no fun! :P
@MartinBüttner Well the his wasn't even a header. He'd just bolded the first line
1:09 PM
@BetaDecay next time, just let me know so I can fix the leaderboard instead
OK sure
@Sp3000 As if anyone can get a working Malboge program by hand!
You could write the Malbolge generator by hand though, right? :P
probably yes
but reading this "A correct 99 Bottles of Beer program, which deals with non-trivial loops and conditions, was not announced for seven years; the first correct one was by Hisashi Iizawa in 2005."
@Sp3000 it's been half an hour :P
1:12 PM
I might not want to
@MartinBüttner I thought people would post faster than that - I don't want to take up all the fun ones too quickly
"faster than that"? o.O
I expected, er, 40 answers by now XD
Some people are just getting to work and have other things to do ;)
1:13 PM
Like sleeping.
Woop HQ9+, will let Martin handle this
Finally got the URL right :D
I'll let Dennis take that
How do we find languages where it's difficult to print Hello World?
Well that's one stupid esolang
1:16 PM
@feersum esolangs.org is a good place to start searching for one.
I picked Turing tarpits because they're the ones with limited instructions :P
Really hard to do it in those.
1:19 PM
Indeed that'd be very difficult
You'd have to write the interpreter before you write 'Hello, World!'
@georgeunix In the PLQ, you only get one guess per answer.
None of these pages tell you how to find ones that aren't brainfucks with each symbol replaced with a different string though.
But CL + ST would produce the same result anyway?
1:23 PM
@Shebang I'm not sure if more than one loop actually saves anything in BF.
My original attempt with one loop was a couple bytes longer
the shortest ones I've seen so far (and which my MarioLANG is based on) use a single loop to set a number of cells to useful values.
But I will be investigating further/updating
:/ now I wish I kept the one I made for Headsecks
Recreated: apparently 123, not great
isn't Headsecks just BF after character substitution?
1:33 PM
Yeah, but my quiz one has a lot of junk in it and I didn't keep the original
@MartinBüttner I remember we were discussing this, but I can't quite tell from the post: Are non-programming languages allowed?
@Sp3000 hm yeah. just saying, as fun as it might look, it's probably not worth posting a separate answer, because you can't really do any golfing you wouldn't do in BF. you could include it in a BF answer if we ever get an optimal one.
@Dennis well... I removed the sentence explicitly disallowing them.
@BetaDecay would you mind making the screenshot a bit smaller? :/
@MartinBüttner Haha sorry :P
@MartinBüttner That wasn't what I meant: I was trying to beat mbomb's BF, which I did, but nowhere near 107 so it's not great
oh I see
1:39 PM
@MartinBüttner Just making sure they're not disallowed implicitly. ;)
I think it's on reddit
and I also think it's just a single loop like my MarioLANG
Mine's a single loop too, but clearly I'm picking all the wrong numbers :P
@Dennis I'd say they're fine... I mostly removed it because there would be some interesting languages where it's not obvious whether primality testing is possible.
(seems like the type of thing which could be brute forceable though, but not bothered)
I'm contemplating writing some code to shorten my MarioLANG thing, but I'm not exactly sure how to go about it yet (other than brute force)
1:42 PM
I got BF down to 120.
@BetaDecay uhhhh
the big red thing is still as big as before but now the actual code is missing?
37 answers in 80 minutes. PhiNotPi will be so unhappy...
@MartinBüttner I'll add that in as a code block
I had no idea it was so big on a desktop D:
@Dennis your comma is killing the leaderboard... leave it, I'll try to fix the leaderboard :D
Haha. Didn't think about that.
1:52 PM
lol @Shebang posted a LOLCODE answer 30 secs after mine
@Dennis must the output for enumerate BF programs be in decimal?
I think you meant "LOL @S..."
1:59 PM
if octal is allowed, then i would consider writing a BF implementation of TheNumberOne's approach
A: Can numeric input/output be in unary?

isaacgYes, but only for languages such as sed, Retina, ///, etc. Only where it is the language's most natural integer representation. I'm in general a fan of taking input in the most natural format for a given language. If a language has no integer type / integer processing capabilities, then the mos...

I consider this the consensus. BF doesn't have an integer type, so unary is OK.
@Dennis I still have no idea how that kind of language discrimination became consensus...
I don't really like it either. IMHO each submission should be able to use whatever base it wants.
By default, I mean.
well decimal is actually pretty doable in BF a lot of the time, and unary feels rather like cheating imo
but for this case being able to use octal is nice
2:10 PM
I feel like whatever base is even worse, since some challenges might just end up being whoever can find the most convenient input/output format
well if i decide to do it then i'll probably do octal -> decimal too for good measure
@Sp3000 that's true, but if we allow unary, we should allow it for all languages
Some people have used unary in other languages though...
(also I'm still trying to figure out whether it was a great idea - on the one hand it lets more esoteric languages compete, but on the other hand it makes some challenges a whole lot easier...)
that moment when you plug your massive diophantine inequality in 12 variables into Mathematica to find the optimal solution and it gives you the solution you found manually -.-
here is a 97 in brainfuck +>+++>++++>++>--->--[++++++[>+++++++++++<-]<]>>-----.>++.>--..+++.>>>.<-.<-.<.+++.------.<-.‌​>>>+.
2:20 PM
Do you want to post it? I can delete my answer :)
@Shebang you don't need to delete yours
that's why we have the snippet which lists the shortest per language
Oh, right :P
it's generated with code i wrote for spoj.com/problems/BFK_AUTO and touched up by hand a bit
2:33 PM
Q: What is the generalized name of this Rabbit and Hole question

balabumI have been recently asked a question which I'm trying find the name of the generalized problem: A bunny can hide in holes for several days and can only move consequently each day. Each day it has to move left or right. We provide the number of holes a rabbit can hide and an array of strategies ...

Voting on Hello World is so weird. I'm in 3rd with a boring ass Java answer. It's not a "cool" language, it's not golfed creatively (it just can't be as far as I see), and it wasn't within the first 10 posted. It's just weird.
So it's 1) Stuck 2) Fourier 3) Java
maybe people like Java (which is just as weird)
well you replaced args with a
that's good golfing effort
That's standard, even in the tips Q :)
I did a bit better with Stuck, golfed 0 bytes into 0 bytes
(good thing I read that Stuck esolang page a few days ago, easy fastest-gun rep)
There were like 10 "low quality answers" to review which were just answers to that Hello world challenge
2:45 PM
Yea, I wasn't expecting much rep at all for this one. I just posted it so there'd be a Java entry, since it's supposed to be a catalog and all. I guess I'll take it, though :D
Haha you're looking the gift horse dead in the mouth @Geobits ;)
HTML doesn't print to stdout though...
unless I suppose you use elinks or lynx
it's a markup language
HTML isn't a programming language
@BetaDecay I dunno, a horse sounds like a terrible gift. Where am I going to keep him? My apartment certainly isn't big enough, and I don't want the costs associated with stabling/feeding either.
Do you have a balcony?
2:49 PM
@feersum Exactly. But it's still on the 'Hello, World!' page
@BetaDecay Porch. But umm, no. No horses on the porch.
@Geobits Well can't you ask for the receipt and return it then?
I'm not sure what the warranty on horses generally is. I don't think I can take it back to the local Walmart or anything.
You're shafted then :P
@MartinBüttner the 'link' in the leaderboard doesn't work in Safari.
2:52 PM
Don't get me wrong, I've had horses. They're not bad creatures, but I definitely don't want to go through all that again, especially where I'm at now.
@georgeunix you need to open it in a new tab or click it with your mouse wheel
(same in all other browsers)
@georgeunix The link tries to open in the snippet's frame
How about using target="__blank"
That forces it to be in a new tab
2:53 PM
@georgeunix I tried that for the quiz but somehow it didn't help either.
Maybe it's specific to SE? SE doesn't want popups on their site
(I'm talking about __blank)
window.open(uri, '__blank')?
Try it on this
A: Leaderboard Snippet

Beta DecayThis snippet is exactly the same as Martin's except that this also identifies if people are eligible for a bounty (for question Stop, stand there where you are!). /* Configuration */ var QUESTION_ID = 55293; // Obtain this from the url // It will be like http://XYZ.stackexchange.com/questio...

I've made it a CW
window.open does nothing in the preview
But then again, neither does the original link
Haha well I meant edit my post to prevent clutter, but oh well ;)
I'll just delete it ;)
3:03 PM
Alright :)
@MartinBüttner I'm using a trackpad xD
no middle mouse button/scroll wheel
you've got only yourself to blame for that :P
@MartinBüttner 467. Well.
Trying to break HNQ records all the time? :P
3:14 PM
60+ answers in 2 hours, you had to see this coming :P
477 now.
What's this number?
467, 477
Go here and hover a question.
@Geobits well the number of answers doesn't affect it so much after 10 or 15 I think (unless all those answers get votes as well)
I have no hovering capabilities on my phone :/
> This question has been arbitrarily awarded X hotness points
3:16 PM
Ohh nice one Martin :D
Why do Canadians prefer their jokes in hexadecimal? Because 7 8 9 A.
Should add "Sorry." after that "joke" to make it more canadian
@MitchSchwartz Does your BF assume anything about wrapping behaviour?
Odd! Safari complained about the link on the leaderboard when clicking, but actually loaded the answer in the frame despite it telling me it was 'insecure'
@Sp3000 i've added it as an answer now
3:27 PM
safari bestest secure
I see the answer, hence why I'm asking :P
it works with small or large cells
Haha it's neck and neck between Fourier and Stuck :D
bff and BFI both have large cells
they allow going to left of start cell
Hotness up to 501. Meltdown imminent.
3:29 PM
@BetaDecay I might consider removing my upvote to that Fourier answer just to get ahead...
i typically think of -[-] as not feasible with bff or BFI because of time limits
Well I was just thinking if you assume a specific wrapping it'd be good to mention, but it looks pretty portable
(Nice work :P)
thanks :)
@Fatalize I'm always available to downvote ;D
You can't downvote my answer, it's a marvel of code golfing
very hard to optimize
3:39 PM
you can tell by looking at the beginning of the program that decrementing a zero cell has to be allowed
i think wrapping is not worth mentioning specifically; it is covered by the compatibility note and is also not hard to see by looking at the code
3:56 PM
@MartinBüttner I wanted to ask you something... why do you write "Hello, World!" with a capital W?
why not?
@BetaDecay I won :)
@MartinBüttner because unlike in German, nouns don't get capitalized in the middle of a sentence
@aditsu I'd consider it a proper noun in this case (like you might write Earth, Sun or Moon when referring to the earth, sun or moon)
I thought the idea was so that people couldn't just steal implementations from elsewhere :P
3:58 PM
also, it's the more interesting spelling for code golf, and it's the spelling used by Wikipedia
@Sp3000 implementations are not very consistent, some are actually written as Hello, World!
heh, the wikipedia article is quite inconsistent too :p
Yeah, but to my knowledge both Wiki and Esolangs wiki have far more lowercase w than uppercase
... okay the usual wiki is very inconsistent
You're referring to the World, not a world?
4:05 PM
I haven't really seen "World" used as a proper noun, but I guess it could be possible
4:17 PM
647, what just happened? o.O
what are those numbers?
SExchange 'hotness'
sex change? :p
Farey addition is defined as:

a/b + c/d = (a+c)/(b+d)
given two decimal numbers, can you approximate it?
approximate what?
4:21 PM
the farey sum
the sum is still a decimal number, so yeah
@TheNumberOne God dammit :D
At least I've got more Gold and silver badges than you ;)
@aditsu oh gosh~ I meant stack exchange
hotness of stack exchange? how do you calculate that?
Gah, hit the rep cap :(
4:23 PM
right, but you don't know what a/b is if you have a decimal
(or c/d for the same reason)
@BetaDecay oh wow, I thought you were quite active, I'm surprised to see you under 5000
@aditsu A lot of my answers range from 0 to 1 upvote, so I don't get much rep
I seem to be getting a load this month, so hopefully that'll change
@NathanMerrill hmm, well, different approximations of a/b and c/d can give you very different approximations of the sum
so yeah, you can "approximate" it, but you can't tell how close it is to the real value
compare 1/2 "+" 2000000001/1000000000 with 1000000000/2000000001 "+" 2/1
Assuming the decimal input is limited to a finite length representation, the most sane way to do it would be to just treat the denominator as a suitably sized power of ten and simplify each one.
How many of you apart from the mods have protected a question? Seems a bit of a wasted privilege :|
4:29 PM
I have, once :D
I think they shouldn't be protected :p
Haha I'll be too scared of protecting something unnecessarily
Mine was just last month:
Jul 23 at 23:00, by Geobits
Screw it. I've never protected a question before, and this one seems like a good fit.
Hmm okay. So basically if it's more than a day old, and it's been on the HNQ for a while, you should protect it?
Not necessarily. That makes it more likely, but I wouldn't protect unless answers were starting to get trollish.
Jul 23 at 23:05, by randomra
Seems like if answers start to lean into code trolling, it is hard to stop. At least I can downvote some, I barely do otherwise.
4:36 PM
Ah sure. That'll work for me
5:08 PM
Broke 750. I wonder if it'll go past 1000 hotness? 96 answers in four hours... insanity.
750 and climbing. ninja'd
@Geobits yeah I thought that Doorknob protecting the Quiz was a bit unjustified for example, but I figured he had his reasons. I personally wouldn't protect it until there were several very low quality/invalid answers by new users.
why is there no marbelous answer on Hello World?
It's only been 4 hours, give people time :P
(or make one yourself!)
I feel like marbelous is one of those languages that has so many ways to complete a task, that you never know if its the shortest
where as, say, C, you can be fairly certain
5:24 PM
@NathanMerrill I kinda doubt it's possible to do better than just putting all the bytes in a row
surely there's a shorter one?
maybe not
@BetaDecay did a shorter Fourier 'Hello World'
Which doesn't specify every char
it'd be cool if number of participants affected HQ
5:40 PM
@NathanMerrill do you mean HNQ? and do you mean participants as opposed to answers?
(because number of answers does)
well, take both into account
I guess it's not really relevant for any other SEs where multiple answers from the same user are a very rare exception
@georgeunix D:
But really, nice :D
@BetaDecay What?
What did I do?
5:45 PM
I think he interpreted your earlier statement as saying you wrote a smaller Fourier than he did.
Well, I did try and copy it in PEG.js whilst experimenting with the library
It's not complete.
And it's bigger I think.
It was an experiment, I wasn't actually going to continue it
But if @BetaDecay wants the grammar (.pegjs) I'll give it to him/her under public domain
I don't have a use for it.
Wait what? I thought you said you wrote a shorter version of "Hello, World!" in Fourier
But I don't see it :P
@Mauris Doing a lot of languages and filling in the catalogue is nice and all, but can we have a few lines of explanation for the not-so-obvious ones?
6:01 PM
@georgeunix I'd love to have a look (him BTW) :D
@BetaDecay I tried a bit golfing yours down, but I couldn't do it. Here's an alternative if you want something that uses a variable (same size):
@BetaDecay @BetaDecay I thought you did xD
@Geobits I might add it in as a footnote.
The one I'm using is also the product of @isaacg's algorithm
We are now a pizzaria:
                               _.-''    ____......____     ``-._
                           _.-'   _.--'"     _        `""-.._   `-._
                        _,'   _.-'    *  _.-"_`   ~  .-.  ,  `-._   `._
                      ,'    .'      ~    `.-'    "  :   :   ~    `-.   `.
                    ,'    .'   "      "     ____     ._.      /. '  `.   `.
                  ,'   .- .--.  *  ||  ,  ."    `.        "  //   "   `.   `.
6:04 PM
I love you Calvin :D :D
@BetaDecay I was hoping that being able to use all the operators might help :(
Is that a teaser for a new Kolmog? :P
@Sp3000 possibly
@Geobits Hmm... Could a loop help at any point here?
@BetaDecay paste.debian.net/309499 <- here you go! It's very incomplete and very quick and nasty
6:05 PM
I don't think so. I've been playing with it, but it's not very loopable.
For the record, that pizza looks terrible on the starboard.
5 hours, 1k views, HNQ... 686. Damn it's dropped :P
I seemed to have mixed node.js with the browser xD
Like a rock. It was at 847 a few minutes ago.
@georgeunix That is like no Javascript I've ever seen :/. But I like it :)
It's not Javascript
Only the code inside { } is JS.
The rest is Xtext grammar.
Eclipse Xtext.
6:08 PM
Oh right. That'll be handy for the future
As I said earlier, it was an experiment.
I might switch to pegJS from Python in the future
Not an actual attempt
I didn't even look at the documentation xD
Or Xtext documentation
(although I had attempted Xtext languages earlier)
Anyway, gtg
See you
6:12 PM
@Geobits I've added your program
I think Mauris has triggered about 10 low quality post reviews :/
Haha how many answers?!
@Sp300 Haha, I will add some explanations/links to the obscure ones.
Thanks :) Sorry about that, just thought the answers would be more interesting that way
He's done 15 so far unless caching is missing some :D
@Mauris unlambda is doable in 36 bytes, this is irori's solution
`.!`.d`.l`.r``.W`. `.,``.l`c`.H.e.oi
Wow, sweet
@BetaDecay just saw your comment on K. we're only missing Q and Y
? "Hello, World!" in QBasic would work, but I don't have an implementation to fiddle with the line numbers/spacing/whatever that might be necessary. (I just downloaded one.)
6:28 PM
In QBasic you shouldn't need line numbers, no? It's been a few years, but I thought that was one of the new features over older versions.
@Mauris That's a borderline dupe of the VBA answers isn't it?
So therefore can't posted if I understood the rules
@MartinBüttner Do those languages exist? :D
@BetaDecay q actually does, I think, but I was referring to initial letters
Is there no YA[E/G}L yet? (Yet another eso/golf language)
So tempted to post this screenshot though.
@MartinBüttner Posted Q
6:32 PM
I love that old QBasic-y programming environment. @MartinBüttner, is it a duplicate?
I feel like Basic derivatives are an odd bunch. They all have their own little quirks, just none that really show up when writing "Hello, World!". I'm far from an expert on them, though.
if the different dialect doesn't change the shortest Hello, World I probably wouldn't post a separate answer
Me and edc65 seem to have both of the shortest BASIC answers for all languages :P
6:45 PM
@MitchSchwartz: That Unlambda solution is so magical. O_O
I guess it's doing this? bpaste.net/show/0f917f0450ab
I don't understand how that works at all... D:
6:57 PM
@BetaDecay I posted a Y-language (Yorick).
@Mauris Perfect :)

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