The Nineteenth Byte

no, for languages that take input in image format (read Peit in this case). It does not treat the image as stream of bytes, but as a collection of colors.

@MartinBüttner that is not the issue. The issue is that the uploaded format was not text, but image. Signifying an image input as opposed to a text input.

For instance, that particular example was from ???, but ??? has no way of image input.

Martin Büttner

@Optimizer I am pretty sure that the Piet interpreter reads a stream of bytes o.O

Optimizer

@MartinBüttner reading is only possible that way of course (technically). But it treats it as collection of colors.

trichoplax

Unless you have a special Piet hardware interpreter...

Optimizer

your codec size (1 px or 10px) does not matter

Geobits

6:27 PM

Wasn't it presented as both an image and byte dump anyway?

Optimizer

@Geobits no

Alex A.

@Optimizer Compile ??? then run ./qqq <image file>. It works, at least for Dennis' post.

Martin Büttner

my only issue with not including a hex dump is that it's not entirely future proof because the image could theoretically go down at some point (although even that is hosted on the SE imgur server)

but that doesn't affect the validity of the answer

Optimizer

so can I possibly answer all future submissions using images?

aditsu

an image usually represents a series of pixels, not a series of bytes; e.g. it is assumed that if you have another image file with the exact same pixels, it is the same image, even if the bytes are different

Martin Büttner

6:29 PM

@Optimizer sure, if you enjoy doing that.

Geobits

@Optimizer Ah, I didn't see it until after the edit that added it in.

Martin Büttner

@aditsu I think that is your assumption, not the interpreter's assumption ;)

Optimizer

Why do I feel like that if I would have done that sort of thing at first, Martin would be on the opposing side..

Martin Büttner

because you're paranoid?

3

Alex A.

@Optimizer I think that's an ungrounded feeling. Martin is a fair and honest person.

Optimizer

6:32 PM

okay, you can set your "time since I was somewhat mean to someone" timer to 0

Alex A.

@Optimizer I didn't mean to be mean at all. I sincerely apologize if it came off that way.

Martin Büttner

I think he was talking to me ;)

Optimizer

@MartinBüttner no

Martin Büttner

okay then I'm not following any more

Geobits

I read it as more dismissive than mean, if that.

Alex A.

6:34 PM

29 mins ago, by Optimizer

@AlexA. when was the last time you said anything mean about/to someone ?

Martin Büttner

ah, okay

Alex A.

@Geobits I didn't mean to be dismissive either. :/ I'm sorry @Optimizer.

Optimizer

So if the code is supposed to be stream of bytes, then why do we allow Piet to answer in image. I have not seen a single answer with text based code for Peit.

@AlexA. gosh you are too concerned.

aditsu

@AlexA. I am offended by your unnecessary apologies

Optimizer

@aditsu me too

Martin Büttner

6:36 PM

@Optimizer because images are nicer to look at?

Alex A.

@Optimizer I think you're a good person and you don't deserve someone being mean to you, and I especially don't want to be mean.

Martin Büttner

and in the case of Piet, presenting the image is more human readable than presenting the text

Optimizer

Sometimes his sweetness gives me creeps

@AlexA. I am offended by how good you are to everyone.

Geobits

When was the last time you said something nice about/to someone? :P

Optimizer

@Geobits just a while back I said you feel down.

Isn't that nice for you?

Geobits

6:37 PM

Hmm. Maybe, depends on tone. It's neutral at worst.

Alex A.

Geobits

^ Needs a little bird riding his shoulder.

Optimizer

I can't take in so much love.

Beta Decay

Now, let's see if I win this election ;)

Optimizer

from the opposite side, maybe.

Geobits

6:39 PM

You have a better shot at it than Trump does.

Alex A.

Optimizer

Okay, so one last thing. Since we are saying that the code in your submission can be in any form, if I submit an answer as an image, do I count my score by pixels or bytes?

Alex A.

I would think bytes

@BetaDecay We're all going to lose to Dennis. :P

Optimizer

@AlexA. then all Piet submissions are scored wrongly.

Beta Decay

Pixels == codels don't they?

If so, then by pixels

Alex A.

6:42 PM

Didn't know there were Piet submissions. Though I guess it's like the usual golf rules where the language uses the most suitable encoding.

2

Optimizer

@BetaDecay for piet, yes. but 1 pixel at minimum can be 3 bytes.

Martin Büttner

@Optimizer not with a palette

Alex A.

If the language is suited for pixels then yeah, but for example ??? should be scored in bytes.

Optimizer

@MartinBüttner so you are saying that possibly piet submissions can as well be list of numbers from 0 to 16..

Rainbolt

The chat has a lot of images lately

Martin Büttner

6:44 PM

uh no, I'm saying they should be scored by the size of the image file

Beta Decay

@Rainbolt Mostly down to me and Alex I guess

Optimizer

@MartinBüttner then for piet, its at least 3*pixels, right?

Martin Büttner

@Optimizer why?

Optimizer

why not?

Rainbolt

Sometimes I sneak a glance at the chat and my boss walks in right at that moment and I just know that he got an eyeful of llama.

3

Martin Büttner

6:45 PM

because you could have a fixed overhead to define a palette, and then you can define each pixel as a single byte

but more likely, the image file will be compressed, so you can probably even achieve much lower rates

Geobits

How about an eyeful of bird instead?

Optimizer

eyeful of bird without eyes

Geobits

Better?

Optimizer

@MartinBüttner I doubt that, with sub 20 pixel solutions of piet

Alex A.

Martin Büttner

6:46 PM

@Optimizer that's true for small submissions, but so what?

Geobits

@AlexA. See? Beady-eyed killers all. Even the little ones.

Optimizer

what = piet is being scored incorrectly.

Martin Büttner

^ agreed

Optimizer

< too lazy to meta about it

Geobits

^ agreed

Alex A.

6:47 PM

Martin Büttner

@Optimizer then it can't be that important.

Alex A.

Carrying the severed head of its enemy.

Optimizer

@MartinBüttner don't judge the importance by the laziness of a person who has never posted a question on meta .. :|

Alex A.

haha

Martin Büttner

I wonder, is there an ASCII sister language to Piet?

like what Prelude is to Fugue?

flawr

6:48 PM

Optimizer

only in black and white.

?

aditsu

@MartinBüttner I think Piet takes ascii ppm

Martin Büttner

well if not, I can throw one together, and if anyone is ever worried about losing a competitive advantage by using Piet they can score the ASCII equivalent

@aditsu no I mean actually, one character per cell

Rainbolt

setInterval(myMethod, 3000);
function myMethod()
{
	console.log("Removing one-boxed chat images.");
	$(".ob-image").remove();
}

Geobits

Well that's no fun.

Optimizer

6:50 PM

@Rainbolt you can inline it

Alex A.

@flawr "Image not found." :(

Beta Decay

Yay, I made you all refresh! :D

Optimizer

quick, post as many images as you can within the 3 second interval

=/

6:52 PM

Looks like a womble

Here's a friendlier one: setInterval(function a(){$(".ob-image").remove();},1000);

6:53 PM

Awwww

why.

why not?

One day I signed onto PPCG and saw my Gravatar in place of my uploaded picture so I replaced my Gravatar with this picture of a bird just in case.

Beta Decay

6:58 PM

Rainbolt

setInterval(function a(){$(".onebox").remove();},1000);

Alex A.

@BetaDecay AHHH what the hell is that?

flawr

BETA, WHY

I DO NOT EVEN WANT TO KNOW WHY

Beta Decay

Hagfish ;D

Alex A.

Please, I'm very squeamish D:

flawr

6:59 PM

Alex A.

Now that's adorable.

Much better.

Optimizer

@AlexA. hmm, how do you get it 1🍱d?

Rainbolt

setInterval(function a(){$(".TipsQuestion").remove();},1000);

flawr

aditsu

@AlexA. you're not an ossifrage, are you?

2

Rainbolt

6:59 PM

I got that one

Alex A.

Me too. Nice one.

Peter Taylor

@MartinBüttner Plus newlines or some other means of indicating the dimensions.

Alex A.

@Optimizer What?

Optimizer

dimension matters in piet?

is it 2d language?

Martin Büttner

@PeterTaylor exactly. because I think currently bytes for that aren't even counted.

Optimizer

7:00 PM

@AlexA. gravatar

Alex A.

@Optimizer I don't understand the question. What is 1🍱d?

Optimizer

@AlexA. oh.. one-box'd

Martin Büttner

@Optimizer it would be a waste of potential if it wasn't

Optimizer

i dunno

flawr

Alvin és a mókusok - júlia nem akar a földön járni

►

Peter Taylor

7:02 PM

@MartinBüttner: counterevidence against your hope that the trivial println answers to a "Hello, world!" catalogue wouldn't get upvotes: codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/54947/194

Beta Decay

European music confuses me

Optimizer

japanese is much better

Beta Decay

Definitely

So crazy its sane :D

Martin Büttner

If you're happy and you know it, syntax error!

Alex A.

SYNTAX ERROR

Rainbolt

7:04 PM

@MartinBüttner I love that one!

aditsu

Parazitii - Linz-Bucuresti feat Texta (nr.57)

►

Martin Büttner

@PeterTaylor Hm yeah, I think one or two might get a bunch of upvotes, but I think (hope?) it would get old really fast. Even if several do get a lot of upvotes I don't think that is justification for depriving those users of the deserved rep who do put hours into golfing a solution in a tricky language.

Beta Decay

@Americans What do you think of a peanut butter doughnut?

I think it's sick

Geobits

Is it smooth?

Beta Decay

Chunky :P

Optimizer

7:07 PM

they dont sell that one here..

Geobits

To be honest, the only Krispy Kreme donuts I've ever had were the plain glazed. You really don't need anything else from them.

Beta Decay

Here?

Optimizer

@Geobits sometimes you need chocolate glazed though

Beta Decay

@Geobits Tesco only sell the assorted selection though :/

Optimizer

not tried cinnamon one, but sounds interesting too

Geobits

7:09 PM

@BetaDecay From somewhere else, maybe. From KK, plain glaze is enough :D

Optimizer

coz its that good, right?

Geobits

Yes.

Optimizer

comparison with dunkins?

Rainbolt

Peanut butter doughnuts have nothing on Gourdough's. Donut burger? Chicken and donut hole dumplings? Gourdough's has it.

Geobits

Dunkin used to be better. Maybe it's just the local ones here that suck, but I haven't been impressed with them lately.

They have better coffee, though.

Beta Decay

7:10 PM

@Rainbolt Pfft doughnut burgers are too widespread now

Optimizer

coffee is almost bad at all of these branded shops

Alex A.

Seattle's Best Coffee is a lie.

Geobits

@Optimizer Right, I meant it sucked less there ;)

Beta Decay

@Optimizer Which branded shops are those?

trichoplax

@AlexA. you don't want to be drinking a lye

Optimizer

7:11 PM

any.. name it.

Beta Decay

Costa Coffee

flawr

Why putting peanut on everything?

Beta Decay

Starbucks

Café Nero

Optimizer

had better than both, with huge difference

Geobits

Because America, that's why :P

Beta Decay

7:12 PM

...That's it :/

Geobits

No Costa Coffee or Nero here, so can't compare.

Optimizer

@flawr its a secret govt. plan to extinguish everyone with fatal allergies

Geobits

Starbucks is fine if I happen to be walking past one and want something. I wouldn't go out of my way to go, though.

flawr

And I do not get why people are so crazy about donuts. I've been looking forward to my first one, and when I got one somewhat more than a month ago I was pretty disappointed.

Optimizer

@flawr from where?

trichoplax

7:13 PM

@flawr Doughnuts come in a wide range of quality

Beta Decay

As sick as some American food is, they still do it brilliantly :D

Optimizer

I've seen shops selling donuts hard as a cold bread

Beta Decay

@flawr What kind? Warm with sugar or cold and glazed?

Geobits

While I love donuts, I don't actually eat them often. I honestly can't remember the last time I had one, but it's been a couple months at least.

flawr

Sugary cold.

trichoplax

7:14 PM

Ideally you want to buy donuts hold from the oil dipped in sugar

flawr

voodoodoughnut.com

Beta Decay

Try warm with sugar. They're brilliant

@flawr Wasn't that on Man v. Food?

Optimizer

^ folded egg

flawr

Is that a tv show?

Optimizer

@flawr its a club where people fight with vegetables

trichoplax

7:15 PM

@Optimizer What the ?!?

flawr

dafuq

Beta Decay

@flawr Ignore Optimizer XD

Geobits

There's a whole range of things called "donut", though. It's like saying you don't understand why people like cheese after trying some feta.

Beta Decay

It's this guy who travels around America eating the best food in each city

And taking on massive eating challenges

Geobits

"best"

Optimizer

7:16 PM

"city"

Alex A.

@flawr Vastly inferior to Mighty-O.

"eating"

flawr

Ok I can imagine ....

Optimizer

@BetaDecay this is true though

Geobits

Yea, the massive eating challenges is true enough.

Optimizer

@flawr ignore beta, that is another food show

honestly, you don't feel the urge to actually google urself at this point?

Rainbolt

7:18 PM

Would Googling myself help me understand what Man v Food is?

flawr

I am constantly trying but you're stil faster!

Beta Decay

The whole point of SE is believing the bull people tell you

flawr

Totally different subject: Does anyone know, does SE allow animated gifs as avatars?

Optimizer

like I am actually a llama

Geobits

@flawr No they don't. I both wish they did and am horrified at the thought.

Peter Taylor

7:20 PM

@BetaDecay, what's Starbucks doing in your list? Costa and Nero both sell coffee, but Starbucks only sells milk and ice.

flawr

I just thought I should also get a nice avatar.

Alex A.

@PeterTaylor :D

@flawr Google "fractal." It's worked for multiple people on here. ;)

Or rather, choose an animal.

trichoplax

@flawr You can kind of animate your avatar in the avatar bar to the top right of the chat window, but only every few seconds and only in some browsers

Beta Decay

@PeterTaylor You can tell you're British by the cynicism ;)

Alex A.

@BetaDecay Truth, not cynicism. ;)

Geobits

7:21 PM

To be fair, they normally add some sort of artificial coffee flavoring to it as well.

Alex A.

And you're forgetting sugar.

aditsu

they're all the same to me (I don't like coffee) :p

Peter Taylor

@aditsu Ok, you have an excuse for going to Starbucks then.

aditsu

haha :) they still put some kind of coffee taste in there

Geobits

I have had a decent cup of coffee at Starbucks once. Granted, it was one down by the water in Seattle and I think that had more to do with it than the actual coffee.

aditsu

7:24 PM

I've been to the first Starbucks shop

Alex A.

@Geobits If it's a location that also roasts the coffee then that's better.

aditsu

didn't buy any drink :p

Beta Decay

Is Seattle as much of a s***hole as grunge rockers make out?

Alex A.

All of these people visiting Seattle and not visiting me!

@BetaDecay No it is not.

Optimizer

@aditsu isn't that a museum now ?

aditsu

7:25 PM

not unless it changed in the last couple of years

Geobits

@BetaDecay I wouldn't call it a shithole at all, really. Nice town. I don't know what it was like in the grunge era, though.

Optimizer

a local crepe shop here sells the best cold coffee varieties I've ever tasted along with the best burger and pancakes

Geobits

big dosa?

Optimizer

dosa is not crepe

Alex A.

Big Dosa Burger and Crepes

Beta Decay

7:26 PM

world big crepe

Optimizer

you guys are jealous coz you haven't had it ever :P

Geobits

Dosa is a fermented crepe...

Optimizer

you've got weird taste

Peter Taylor

You guys do realise that normal bread is fermented, right?

Geobits

^ that

Beta Decay

7:28 PM

Oh...

Optimizer

he likes weird fishes better..

Image not found

@flawr I'll take a guess that you don't have a Twitter account?

flawr

7:32 PM

I do have one though.

aditsu

well, speaking of lye, disgusting stuff, fermented stuff and fish...

Optimizer

its not related though

aditsu

Lutefisk

Lutefisk (Norwegian) or lutfisk (Swedish) pronounced [lʉːtfesk] in Northern and Central Norway, [lʉːtəfɪsk] in Southern Norway, [lʉːtfɪsk] in Sweden and in Finland (Finnish: lipeäkala)) is a traditional dish of some Nordic countries. It is made from aged stockfish (air-dried whitefish) or dried/salted whitefish (klippfisk) and lye (lut). It is gelatinous in texture. Its name literally means "lye fish". == Preparation == Lutefisk is dried whitefish (normally cod, but ling is also used) treated with lye. The first step is soaking the stockfish in cold water for five to six days (with the w...

Optimizer

@BetaDecay the link opens in private window too. so no need

flawr

Big Ben

@big_ben_clock, Up a tower.

The first, established November 2009 & entirely unofficial. Copyright details here: http://t.co/q8UCMopfd5, but still apparently imitated everywhere.

49.4k tweets, 488k followers, following 0 users

2

aditsu

7:33 PM

also see urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=lutefisk

Beta Decay

Also take note of the abhorrent salt licorice

Geobits

>Funazushi is a type of narezushi that can still be found today in Shiga Prefecture. It's made from a fish known as Nigorobuna that's only found in Lake Biwa.

The Nigorobuna are preserved in salt and aged for a year. They are then repacked with rice and fermented for up to 4 years. The result is Funazushi.

Beta Decay

I don't even know which part you would eat...

flawr

But I know which part I would not eat.

Beta Decay

I'd go for the rice and hope it's like rice pudding

Geobits

7:37 PM

The smell is just what you'd expect. And nothing like rice pudding.

aditsu

oh jeez, that might be even worse than natto

Geobits

I at least tried natto. I couldn't get past the smell of this.

Beta Decay

Do the Japanese like this? Or is it just a traditional dish that they eat?

trichoplax

@aditsu and there was me thinking no one had noticed my appalling lye pun :)

Geobits

It's one of those love it or hate it things. It's not like it's everywhere, though, just some specialty places.

Beta Decay

7:41 PM

Mm. I'd love to go to Japan one day.

Alex A.

@flawr Hahaha is this you?

Geobits

So go :D

Alex A.

@BetaDecay My grandpa was born in Japan and my dad lived there for a significant part of his youth. (No one in my family is remotely Japanese.)

flawr

@AlexA. Nope, but I wish I was=)

I've got another great one:

Jupiter's moons

@JupiterMoonPos, 5 AU from the sun

automated account which tweets the position of Jupiter's 4 largest moons Io, Europa, Ganymede, and Callisto. Press 'J' and 'K' and watch 'em orbit.

9.8k tweets, 573 followers, following 9 users

aditsu

btw, in HK you can find durian in every supermarket

Beta Decay

7:42 PM

@AlexA. My parents lived in Japan for a few years in the 90s too

aditsu

wikipedia says: "The smell evokes reactions from deep appreciation to intense disgust, and has been described variously as rotten onions, turpentine, and raw sewage" also "Your breath will smell as if you'd been French-kissing your dead grandmother"

3

Beta Decay

Turpentine?!

trichoplax

I wonder which one of those is responsible for the deep appreciation?

Beta Decay

And from who

Alex A.

@aditsu My friend had durian ice cream at a restaurant once. I can attest to this description. We hurried out of there once she was done with it.

Peter Taylor

7:44 PM

@AlexA. My director of studies at university made durian ice-cream for an end-of-year party once. He got hold of some essential oil rather than the entire fruit.

flawr

Why do we have to talk about gross food now? It was so good yesterday when we were actually talking about good food.

Alex A.

@PeterTaylor Was it intended to be more of an "okay, your studies are done, now GTFO" celebration, or a genuine token of appreciation? :P

Geobits

> ... its odor is best described as pig-shit, turpentine and onions, garnished with a gym sock.

Alex A.

^ surprisingly accurate

Optimizer

^ surprisingly accurate too

trichoplax

7:46 PM

^ surprisingly accurate III: Epsilon falling

aditsu

"Other comparisons have been made with the civet, sewage, stale vomit, skunk spray and used surgical swabs."

Alex A.

@aditsu Civets smell bad? But they're so cute.

Geobits

I hear they make good coffee, too :P

Alex A.

@Geobits shudders

^ Is that not adorable??

trichoplax

Smells funny

Geobits

7:51 PM

Alex A.

@NinjaBearMonkey It seems that a perfect challenge for you has been posted. (Perfect in the sense of your previous username.)

Geobits

Hmm. Is there any way to linkify images in chat?

Alex A.

@Geobits Prepend !

trichoplax

@Geobits "cleaning" does not make this OK (I can't stand coffee anyway but this is actually worse)

Alex A.

Wait, you mean force oneboxing?

Or avoid oneboxing? Or just link?

Geobits

7:53 PM

No, I mean make that image link to something (but still show as an image).

trichoplax

You mean when you click on the image, it takes you to a location other than the image source?

Geobits

^

Alex A.

I have no idea how to do that.

trichoplax

Did you try the way that works in posts on main?

I don't know a way for chat

Geobits

Yea, it just unboxes the image into a text link unless I did it wrong.

trichoplax

7:54 PM

Another one for the list of things that don't work in chat...

NinjaBearMonkey

@AlexA. Ooh I must've missed that one somehow

trichoplax

[![arbitrary text][image source]][link]

Alex A.

@NinjaBearMonkey Better get on it. You'll be the first JS answer if you hurry. :)

trichoplax

(obviously arbitrary text should be a meaningful description of the image, but it's not part of what makes the link work)

Alex A.

@trichoplax Should be, but rarely is.

trichoplax

7:56 PM

Sadly so

Geobits

[![arbitrary text][google.com/images/nav_logo225_hr.png]][https://www.youtube.com/…

trichoplax

Looks right to me - I guess it just doesn't work in chat

Alex A.

u_u

Geobits

Huh. It looks like it thinks about loading the image for a second then gives up.

trichoplax

Doesn't work if you put it in a sentence?

Beta Decay

7:58 PM

Do any of you fill in the alt text? I just leave it as ![](link)

trichoplax

Oh no - then it wouldn't show an image at all

NinjaBearMonkey

@AlexA. I wish I could but I have something important I should be doing...

Exit NinjaBearMonkey

trichoplax

@BetaDecay I fill it in - it's used for screen readers and if the link fails

Geobits

I do alt text on most, but only vaguely descriptive for many.

Beta Decay

Maybe I should start...

Geobits

7:59 PM

like pie chart death

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