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12:00 AM
It's pretty daunting to step up to a full DAW suite from simple audio editors :/
Guess there's lots to learn, but there is good documentation for REAPER out there.
 
@DragonLord: I dig out my daw setup roughly annually ;p
I don't actually know if my old one works with windows 10
 
Worked with Cubase a bit in high school. Not easy to learn, either. REAPER is supposed to be easier to learn than Cubase, though.
(I'm a photographer, not a musician, just need to do audio editing once in a while.)
 
I use protools at the moment
Basic stuff tho
I just record ;p
 
all this "pro" stuff needs a mid-range program. persons go from limp consumer trash that accomplishes nothing, to duanting professional programs that even the pros using them for 5-10 years barely know how to use all the things in them. going from MSes Movie maker to adobee premier , its like WTF , i just wanted to ______ (insert simple task here) not make a Epic Warner bros movie
 
@Psycogeek Well, there's Sony Vegas.
 
12:10 AM
@DragonLord yea that is much easier and better thought out interfacing. I used Canopus (now grass valley) stuff before, and they would put out a mid-range package called Just-Edit, that well did just that. Bought by grass valley scared the pants off me, because grass valley was the same insane layers of stuff everywhere. when i just wanted to ______ so now i use thier Edius.
 
12:57 AM
next week how to turn an old printer fuser into a space heater.
 
 
4 hours later…
5:01 AM
@Psycogeek Something you have been telling me... amazon.com/The-Hundred-Year-Marathon-Strategy-Superpower/dp/…
 
@Boris_yo been there done that :-) now all the need is an invasion
Seems google has now 2 different stock names. as particular aspects of the company are somehow seperated. ahh I dont know enough to say it correct. but no less something different happening google.com/…
I find it interesting that the name picked is:
Alpha - meaing the first, or alpha ape , alpha male etc
Bet - wager on uncertian outcome
 
5:18 AM
techcrunch.com/2015/08/14/pros-and-cons-of-alphabet/… Why google said they split in 120second. (good fast video that tells how the line is drawn)
in 10 seconds why they really split "taxes , corporate damage from military and low approval things from consumers if any of that other stuff steps on toes, taxes"
 
5:30 AM
@HackToHell Okay, Ill give that a shot. Thanks for your help.
 
5:50 AM
@Psycogeek @Psycogeek Alphabet is not only a compound of those two words...
That's like saying all physios are also rapists. It's fundamentally wrong.
 
As for Google's Alphabet, or rather Alphabet's Google, it's an umbrella company they are using to encompass everything they currently own under one unified name. So they can stop labeling all their different projects/spin-off companies as Google x.
 
Also means that side projects are on their own (which is smart) and they won't have a situation like they did with moto
They can also spin off projects that are better off on their own more easily
 
> What is Alphabet? Alphabet is mostly a collection of companies. The largest of which, of course, is Google. This newer Google is a bit slimmed down, with the companies that are pretty far afield of our main internet products contained in Alphabet instead. What do we mean by far afield? Good examples are our health efforts: Life Sciences (that works on the glucose-sensing contact lens), and Calico (focused on longevity).
> Fundamentally, we believe this allows us more management scale, as we can run things independently that aren’t very related.
Now that they've done it, I'm kinda suprised it hadn't happened earlier.
Ugh... I wish I could subscribe to just a playlist on YouTube. I like this guys Minecraft videos, but don't want the rest of his rubbish haha
 
@MichaelFrank: Yup
Especially since google has a tendancy of buying up companies with cool, not quite obviously related tech, and sometimes spinning them off anyway
 
6:01 AM
When google is Omni-Corp teaching alphabet to children will take on a new meaning.
 
@Psycogeek: Well, many ex-tech folk and current also have a desire to make the world better
 
A is for Always Listen to the google bot
B is for Bad kids in google private prisons
C is for Caring, google incubators care for your children
D is for Death , always follow google robots instructions
E is for everything, we know about you
F is for how ucked you are now
 
Self driving cars also mean self driving efficient public and goods transports. On the shorter term? Better safety tech
and google has no direct use for it. Car makers would on the other hand, either licence it, or do their own or both.
 
 
1 hour later…
Bob
7:26 AM
@JourneymanGeek @DragonLord Turning a system on remotely could be accomplished with WoL.
IPMI is largely useless in a home environment.
It's really only useful if you need remote always-on.
And current implementations probably cause more trouble than they're worth...
 
8:19 AM
translate.google.com/… a translate from french of this question found under the spam, indicates that it isnt much of a question anyway either.
 
8:42 AM
 
9:12 AM
lol
 
9:31 AM
I'm gonna do it
I'll uninstall the WSUS role from our SBS
Highly not recommended from what I read on the webs
But I'm a pro!
...famous last words
gogogo
 
You did back up right?
 
10:25 AM
...famous last words
 
lol
(Am I the only one here with tested backups? ;p)
 
i got 17T of external disks with compared backups. but they on segate disks, sooo not sure if that fully qualifies.
 
hm. Maybe
(All my systems on my current backup regime have been restored from bare metal at least once)
 
JMG if I bounty this question superuser.com/questions/958056/… you think i will find out more info about win10 scaling and 4k monitors and all? I would be trying to gather up a lot of (so called) opinion, aka User experience info .
 
donno ;p
Honestly, windows scaling is... wierd
 
10:34 AM
It certannly died on the vine as it is, sooo i was not sure if there is any Hope.
 
Well, that's the whole point of bounties.
 
The funny thing is he wants the top to look like the bottom. and at regular res the top is beutifull, and the bottom looks like crap . But i understand he wants everything to scale.
I have at least 3 programs that i also assume would have not only micro icon/button stuff, but probably would have teeny text too, as the text is already way small.
 
As I mentioned before, part of the issue is cause apps don't scale cleanly
in the bottom one - the management console scales
the icons arn't
 
At your work? they have 4K in play, how do they deal with thier expencive programs
 
Nope ;p
We don't work in 4K much
 
10:43 AM
oh
 
Actually I don't think we have any 4K displays AFAIK
 
(and we work on an older version of linux anyway so....)
 
This is actual res, not shrunk, it seems small to me at regular res, i bet a magnifying glass would work good on 4K :-) to even read it?
 
I run most stuff at 200% UI scaling
Video (upscaled) and games tho...
4K on 15 inches sounds crazy tho. Its crazy sharp at 27 inches
 
10:47 AM
Hmm... I'm still working on my csv scraper/database insert python script. Currently I run it via cmd.exe. I link the .py and follow it with the .csv file I want it to parse. How do I get it to run through every file in a folder, one at a time?
 
2k on 5.5in phone is going a bit overboard too :-)
 
While I love my current setup , its something close to 1.5-2k in upgrades, and its not something I can immediately take advantage of
 
wait for it . . .
 
Yup
You might consider spending the money on 2-3 QHD displays instead, for example ;p
 
but you were saying about the games?
 
10:50 AM
lol. I have a 980TI
Which is essentially a current gen titan, with half the ram, and nearly the same performance
a midrange card would happily drive a QHD screen on ultra or maximum
 
I know but how are they scaling things like HUD elements, and texts , and EVERYthing , how does the frame rate work out, even with the beasty in there
 
lol
~30fps, but smoooth
(shadows of mordor lets you do superscaling, which makes it a nice tool for testing before you upgrade)
there was the time I accidentally set the game to 200% res on a 4K display....
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek yes.
(I've never tested mine solely for testing :P)
 
@Psycogeek: everything turned up to max tho
@Bob: Oh, I did it when I was upgrading disks ;p
and I did ONE test for testing's sake
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek yea, I might end up doing that during my planned move to SSD...
I have an SSD sitting in its box
along with a bunch of cables and a pcie card in an amazon box :P
 
10:55 AM
@Bob: also, veem let me backup to a smaller disk
 
Bob
shrug pretty normal
 
I'm not that patient ;p
s/backup/restore
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek thing is, I want to go win10 but at the same time I don't want to
I want a clean start, but I've tried win10 and, honestly, I don't like it
I could get used to win8. that was fine.
because the search worked
I tried win10 and all it offered was a web search.
!!no
 
@Bob: search works for me, sporadically
 
Why not one on each disk, and Dual boot till either you "get over it" :-) or they fix the bloody thing?
 
10:56 AM
but internet + gaming so I pin stuff, and use steam as a launcher.
 
Bob
@Psycogeek because I need to break my raid that win7 currently sits on
both my sata3 ports are used for raid1
ssd should go on sata3
 
Bob
it wasn't the best thought out setup, but when I got it (2011) ssds were still fairly rare/small and I only had ~3TB storage
now I have almost 20TB
actually, I think it's over 20TB now
 
I could restore to windows 8. I just renamed the old backup folder ;p
lol
THanks to my most recent upgrades, no hardware for me till dec ;p
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek I'll be keeping a win7 image, but I generally don't do OS restores unless everything breaks
I don't like throwing away some unknown amount of data :\
 
10:59 AM
@Bob: I had it in case stuff broke ;p
and I'll retain it till I need the space for something else
 
@Bob I mentioned that I was merely having second thoughts about Win10 (due to privacy issues) in Database Admin's chat room and ended up having someone digging into me about it. <_<
I'd obviously struck a nerve
 
@marcusdoesstuff Meh its your choice.
 
I would quite like to have both my computers on the same OS though
 
Bob
@marcusdoesstuff on one hand, there's a hell of a lot of FUD about it. on the other, it's always a good thing to at least think of those issues
 
@marcusdoesstuff yeah. Which is one reason for me to upgrade.
 
11:03 AM
@bob i'm sure there is. but that was my exact point... i'm allowed to express concern but i was basically marked out as some sort of hyperbolic tinfoin nutter, hah.
 
superuser.com/questions/959000/… <-- 1 away from Death to spam
 
if i was really concerned then i'd be using linux and always on TOR, heh.
but i just settle for a VPN that's mostly off :P
i just don't believe in the whole "i have nothing to hide" ideology. it's very short sighted.
 
Bob
Definitely.
 
@marcusdoesstuff not even . . hyperbolic tin hat nerds , dont worry about web hype, they worry more about the 50 layers of crap in the system that doesnt make the web hype :-)
 
On the internet, no one needs to know you're a dog ;p
@marcusdoesstuff I've turned off some of that stuff, cortana is broken for me (yay for using british english) ... ;p
but yeah, I get what you mean
 
11:09 AM
the worst thing was that the guy, who was exaggerating every one of my points in order to shoot down my argument, has 200k+ rep there. :/
hahaha @JourneymanGeek
 
cortana doesnt respond to incessant barking?
 
hahaha
 
@Psycogeek: dosen't even get that far
I wanted to try it! I break most voice rec badly
 
if i upgrade, can i downgrade?
i do actually have the oem cd for this win7 laptop actually so i assume so
 
@JourneymanGeek lolwat. I'm a pro, I don't need to make backups
6
Yeah, we have image-based and real-time backup on this server
 
11:13 AM
i bought two 3TB drives the other day... i was going to run them in raid 0 but then reminded myself how they're not that safe if the house goes up in flames.
 
Bob
@marcusdoesstuff Always take an image. Never rely on any downgrade functionality.
Heck, never rely on upgrades working in the first place!
 
@marcusdoesstuff The 0 in RAID0 stands for the number of files you get back when a drive dies
12
 
@OliverSalzburg Sorry! Raid 1 :P
raid 0 on storage drives would be fun :P
 
@marcusdoesstuff the most claims (quantity but not quality) i have heard so far, is your old licence will get sucked up into oblivion after 6mo. but really getting 7 re-activated only ever requires a bit of begging and pleading anyway :-) It even seems like after some time of the OS being out, they unload the work on a computer (not human) as if they just do not care as much anymore.
 
Anyone have any thoughts about the anti-piracy measures?
what's the deal with 'counterfeit hardware'?
 
11:27 AM
Lol.
Define counterfeit
 
exactly
or i think they used 'illegal hardware' actually
ah here, i found it:
"We may automatically check your version of the software and download software updates or configuration changes, including those that prevent you from accessing the Services, playing counterfeit games, or using unauthorised hardware peripheral devices."
 
Ahh. That sounds like cya or copy paste
 
i don't even know what a unauthorised hardware peripheral devices might be, heh
 
Bob
@marcusdoesstuff I think that's actually CYA.
 
@marcusdoesstuff for a console, maybe a modchip.
 
Bob
11:33 AM
Quite literally counterfeit hardware.
There was that uproar with a driver update distributed via Windows Update that bricked an number of counterfeits of a common chip.
 
Bob
There's nothing technically illegal about the chips, but they used someone else's VID & PID rather than registering their own.
 
I forgot about that.
 
Bob
So it's probably not MS taking action on their own but to cover themselves if this happens again.
 
11:34 AM
i assume people will find ways around these things?
 
some of that stuff is not OUR fault, if they would quit giving china all the specs and plans and have them build it, then freaking china couldnt clone the dang thing .
 
Bob
The interface was (mostly) the same, but the hardware was different.
The only thing they really did wrong was re-using the VID & PID. More a matter of USB standards than legality.
In the cases where they passed it off as the real chips, that is counterfeiting and illegal.
But in other cases it was sold under a different name entirely. It's not the act of manufacturing hardware with the same functionality, but rather the act of pretending to be some other hardware. AFAIK laws only deal with how they're sold, not how they communicate via any given protocol (behaviour) (VID & PID). Bit of a legal grey area.
@marcusdoesstuff 'long as it's not trying to pretend to be other hardware, there shouldn't be a problem.
 
i don't particularly like the anti-piracy stuff as it's in the same line as internet censorship. pretty inevitable though... and honestly piracy doesn't exactly encourage product development. so i'm in two minds about it.
 
Meh. DRM is dumb.
 
Bob
@marcusdoesstuff From what I've heard, that primarily applies to MS software, but the ToS is rather open-ended.
The biggest problem is false positives.
 
11:40 AM
I bet people will circumnavigate it anyway.
Yeah bob
 
I dont mind the anti piracy measures, as long as right after i buy the product, they Remove Them :-)
 
Bob
^
You've got crap like the sony rootkit
 
and people who don't even know their software is not legit (common in china etc)
 
Bob
DRM ends up hurting legitimate customers more.
 
@bob forgot about that. that was bad.
 
11:47 AM
Yeah. And being able to use my media across oses and formats is nice. Win 10 breaks some older game drm
 
12:11 PM
btw no ill effects from removing WSUS, as far as I can tell
 
12:46 PM
youtube.com/results?search_query=Tianjin+pentagon the nutterbutters on yousatube are going blind nuts over a single web story that claims that the china bombing was a pentagon weapon.
Why didn't a single one of the people (again) know anything about how any of that happened? You would have to have missed everything, to not know there was a fire and firemen on the scene for quite some time before any explosion occured.
Why does it always seem that the people most into creating any of the conspiracy things, the loudest of all, are the most ill informed, when they seem to be making it thier Job to analise it.
 
1:17 PM
posted on August 18, 2015

English is a language…

 
I suppose they also missed that chemicals found hundreds of feet away , would ignite when water was poured on them. That the chemicals stored were probably 80% there to make products for american companies :-) Who probably were more interested in saving 5cents than for any of it to be safe.
 
Any idea if one can get surface-mount back boxes for network faceplates that are thinner than 16mm?
(as much as I want to mount in-wall; I figure surface mounting will make cable replacement / upgrading to cat 18z down the line easier)
Given I have $NOTMUCH experience in the area of running/terminating cable runs, I'm also happy to hear alternative suggestions :D
 
That lithium batteries are made in china by the thousands of tons, and lithium metals used to make these batteries reacts with water to form hydrogen. Plus sodium (self igniting in water), and the calcium carbonate (creating acetelyn), all of which would be logically and unsafely strored with other hundreds of oxidisers and even crude oil products for creating plastics.
 
1:37 PM
@bertieb low profile ? I thought i had seen some where a round center area of the plate containing the eth jack was decorativly jutisoned out from the rest of the plate. but at least these exist, amazon.com/Single-Surface-Female-Unshielded-CNE43767/dp/… like any phone surface mount
 
@Psycogeek Yeah, a low-profile back-box (/ pattress) for mounting the faceplate on. Trying to get it as slim as possible.
Can't see dimensions on that one
 
1:52 PM
yea amazon probably not the best place to get specs , especially on electronics , EX the pyle wall plate "79.2 x 82.8 x 24 inches ; 4 ounces " Okkay.
Problem is the real electronics sites, are very hard to search, like it helps to have a model number going in. diy.stackexchange.com the DIY home stack exchange has a lot of people there.
 
@Psycogeek Good thinking, cheers!
 
2:09 PM
hi
 
lo
heh
Turns out, while our exact choices were a little different...
blog.codinghorror.com/our-brave-new-world-of-4k-displays I upgraded to 4k, and got (roughly) the same GPU as Jeff Atwood. ;p
 
I don't believe in using 4K yet. The monitor tech may be ready, but the GPU tech definitely is not.
 
@allquixotic: GPU tech is almost there on the extreme high end.
 
The highest-end GPUs available today struggle to deliver 60fps at 2K, and often don't touch it, on AAA titles on maximum detail.
The only way you can get solid 60fps with ultra detail is to stay with 1080p, or use more than one card.
 
Yeah, there's that. I'm doing a little over 30fps, on 4K, on ultra.
But its beautiful, and I don't really notice.
The big thing I miss is movies at that res
or TV
 
2:15 PM
30fps is horrible. Less than 60fps is horrible. It looks worse, it feels worse, it makes gaming harder, it makes targeting harder, it makes typing harder... I'd rather have lower detail graphics, lower resolution, but 60 fps, than the reverse.
 
._.
I find it fine. YMMV ;p
 
The difference is completely obvious to me. Anything less than 60fps is unacceptable. The occasional frame drop down to 59fps isn't really noticeable, but if you go lower than about 55 fps, it feels basically unplayable to me.
 
(I'm just amused at how similar the timing was, since my current rig was inspired by Jeff Atwood's rig quite directly)
 
Not to mention: if you aren't hitting 60 fps on "average" scenes, you'll probably be getting under 30 fps on the "worst-case" scenes. If you're getting 60 fps on average scenes, you might get 50 on the worst-case scenes.
 
Well...
I was gaming on a 1600x900 on a card that prolly could handle a lot better.
 
2:20 PM
On a current-gen card, most games that are 3 years old or newer will have a pretty large variance in framerate stability from scene to scene, where the most complex scenes will drop you below 50 for even the very best GPUs, and the average will be 60fps at 1080p, less at 2k, and way the hell less at 4k.
The variance is an unfortunate fact of life, but seeing it drop into the 20s is just unacceptable for me. I'll probably stick with 1080p until my next GPU upgrade after buying one of the Maxwell cards this year.
And when I do upgrade to something more than 1080p60, it'll probably be 1440p144 (2K with a much higher refresh rate) and FreeSync or G-Sync.
 
I guess that makes sense
 
Bob
@allquixotic "maximum detail" is a sham
 
(And I guess I do mostly play older games, slightly)
 
Bob
You can always "turn it up" higher than that.
And it's still debatable whether it's visually any better than one step lower, while often requiring double or more rendering time.
It's just some arbitrary point specifically picked to be above current-gen GPU capabilities for the hell of it, not picked for any particular visual effect.
 
@Bob On my current GPU(s), most games are pretty good at 1080p60 with two or three exceptions to the maximum detail settings: Shadows, Reflections, and AA. If I keep those three at medium/low (which looks very noticeably worse than putting them on maximum!), I get pretty good FPS. If I put them on max, it's a slideshow.
The visual effect is stark and obvious. Yet those specific settings always carry such an enormous performance cost that I can never use them.
Seeing real-time physically based rendering shadows is quite beautiful compared to the shadows of old. Of course, I can set shadows to maximum on a 2010 game and get solid 60 fps, but that's because my card's performance was a pipe dream at that point.
 
Bob
2:26 PM
@allquixotic Those three are expensive, yes. But I'm talking about the difference between high and max, not med (or low) and max.
I find that the visual difference is lower as you go higher.
high-max is typically hard to notice, while med-high is noticeable but unimportant and low-med is glaringly obvious.
Of course, "low", "med", "high" and "max" are all completely arbitrary, so even that will vary widely by game and engine.
 
@Bob I generally don't have any problems with setting things like textures and shaders to max. Those are VRAM-bound and shader-bound, respectively. At 1080p, the 3 GiB of VRAM my card has is more than sufficient for even ridiculous-quality textures. And the shader cores (2048 of them) is nothing to shake a stick at.
The funny thing though is that people who have 4K displays today often find themselves needing to either (1) suffer extremely noticeable frame drops well below the 60 fps gold standard, even on average-complexity scenes, OR (2) turn down the detail across the board to at least medium, if not low. I'm talking about games released Q2 2014 and later, bear in mind.
 
Bob
It also really depends on the game. I'm pretty sure I can hear my GPU crying whenever a smoke blooms in Insurgency, let alone a field full of them. And that's not even a particularly modern engine.
 
Why have 4x the pixels and then turn down the level of detail? That's completely counterproductive.
It probably looks just as good (or better) at 1080p with maximum texture quality.
 
Bob
Huh. I just hit 2k on SO, basically all from a single answer slowly gathering votes over two years.
 
In terms of pixels per second, 1440p144 is actually more demanding on the GPU than 2160p60. Because 144 is more than twice of 60.
 
2:36 PM
@allquixotic Exactly.
I'd rather target 1440p and have the settings at or near max rather than to do 2160p with the settings on medium to high.
 
3840 x 2160 x 60 = 497,664,000 pixels per second. 2560 x 1440 x 144 = 530,841,600 pixels per second. If a Titan X is designed to run at "near maximum" (not actually the highest detail, but quite high in general; specific settings may have to be set to medium or low) at 4K, and it costs $1000, that means the first ~$600 GPUs that will be able to run 1440p144 at smooth, high FPS at max settings will arrive in maybe late 2017.
 
@DragonLord At this point, I'm satisfied with "lowballing" it down to 1080p60. The main reason is that I don't have the money to put out for a new monitor and a new GPU. So if I stay at 1080p60 with the GTX 980 Ti that I'm seriously contemplating buying, that means I'll get consistent 60fps performance out of it for years to come.
 
Keep in mind that Moore's law is already slowing down and is getting near its end.
We're not doubling transistor counts every 18-24 months. It's now 24-30 months.
 
Bob
@allquixotic That's not quite correct.
Really depends on the ratio of per-pixel calcs vs per-model calcs.
 
2:43 PM
@Bob True, and some driver optimizations may be able to calculate that nothing changes in a frame and so avoid re-calculating stuff, but a lot of the new physically based rendering stuff (check out Unreal Engine 4 and some of the games made with it) tells the driver to re-calc just about everything, for every pixel, every frame, since all the shaders are per-pixel.
 
Bob
Yea... we were reducing (optimising out) per-pixel operations, but then GPU perf took a leap and baaaaack we go.
 
@allquixotic: other than video ram (and well, the titan X has more than pretty much anything else out there) the 980TI is pretty much the same card. (and eh, I'm pretty certain when you get it, and you try it on 1080p, you'll be seeing ludiciously high framerates ;p)
 
Even if you aren't interested in survival games, you might want to check out ARK: Survival Evolved. It's a great tech demo for games to come, in pretty much all the popular genres except strategy (strategy games will have lower reqs in general).
And in an effort to have a larger subscriber base rather than having people quit because their 5 year old PC can't run it, MMOs will probably not be (fully) using that kind of advanced rendering for a number of years yet, unless they implement some kind of backwards compatibility that takes the game back to running well on early DX10 cards like the AMD HD5000 generation.
 
sounds about right ;p
 
Survival, FPS, RPG, first-person or third-person action-adventure, racing... those types of games in the AAA category will definitely be using physically-based rendering in the next few years, and boy is it costly in terms of performance.
 
2:49 PM
@DragonLord one thing to take into account though, did they not cram a billion extra transister in when they put the GPU on the same die?
 
For reference, in ARK: Survival Evolved at 1080p60, I get between 40 and 50 FPS average, with medium detail across the board, shadows disabled, no AA, and about 75% of the maximum view distance. On an R9 280X whose Tahiti core was top of the line in Q12012. (It was released at a time when Nvidia had no good answer to Tahiti; it was king of GPUs for like 4 months.)
Star Citizen is much the same despite being a different engine entirely (CryTek vs. UE4).
> WinForms
why not WPF, if you're using .NET 4.5?
 
Bob
@allquixotic Me, personally? I know WinForms. I don't know WPF. And I'm mostly working with Java&JS these days, too.
Intel? No idea. Maybe similar reasons.
WinForms isn't deprecated anyway.
Also, Mono has no WPF support.
 
@allquixotic: Might be an evolution/port of older software
If you're talking about the hawking squaker
 
@Bob It looks to be running on Windows.
 
Bob
@allquixotic Only the demo that blog writer is testing.
 
2:57 PM
WPF has significantly less input latency and paint latency than WinForms. Just thought that might be desirable for a use case like this.
 
Bob
Note that that is an MS blog.
 
@Bob Oh. Hawking's thing runs on Linux?
 
Bob
@allquixotic Who knows?
> developed in C# using .NET 4.5 and Visual Studio 2012
Ok, maybe it's completely Windows-targeted.
Maybe they wanted to leave options open. shrug
 
> Intel’s custom PC for Hawking, with the ACAT software in view.
That's Win7 on his actual computer.
 
0
Q: Cross-platform PSQL execution from CLI

Oliver SalzburgI want to execute the following code from the command-line: DO $$ BEGIN EXECUTE ns.proc(); END $$; Because I'm using this in a shell script, I have to escape the $$, otherwise they are translated to the process ID. So my code becomes: DO \$\$ BEGIN EXECUTE ns.proc(); END \$\$; Due to the na...

:(
 
Bob
2:58 PM
@allquixotic Ah.
 
@OliverSalzburg Yo dawg! I herd u like special characters so we put a special character in your special character so you can escape while you escape
 
@allquixotic The worst part is that I write the statement in JS code, so it's actually \\$\\$ O__o
 
@OliverSalzburg You could run Bash on Windows (Cygwin or MinGW...)
 
I'm really close to checking the platform identifier and then manually escaping the string
@allquixotic I am, but when I spawn the subprocess, it runs through cmd :\
For more clarity
 
Bob
@OliverSalzburg How are you "spawning the subprocess"?
Is this Node?
 
3:02 PM
And don't get me started on attempting to force that being run through bash. Last time I tried that, I cried
@Bob Yes
 
Bob
You could pass the arguments directly, rather than going through the shell.
 
^
Basically you need to find the Node API to force-feed the ARGV into the psql.exe command
 
I'm using require( "child_process" ).exec and I'm instructing it to execute psql. The fact that it wraps that in cmd is up to node
 
directly from JS
 
Bob
@allquixotic IIRC one of the spawn methods deals with the shell, and the others do not.
The Node.js API docs take a shit long time to load, though.
 
3:03 PM
@Bob that's how just about every programming environment handles it, yes.
 
@Bob Yeah, there's also spawn, but that also behaves differently
 
Core 2 Duo 291,000,000 (trans) 2006
Quad-Core + GPU Core i7 1,400,000,000 2012
 
Bob
> Runs a command in a shell and buffers the output.
@OliverSalzburg Use execFile.
> This is similar to child_process.exec() except it does not execute a subshell but rather the specified file directly. This makes it slightly leaner than child_process.exec. It has the same options.
Or just use spawn.
@OliverSalzburg No shit, that's exactly why you should use it!
Is there anything you really need from exec that spawn cannot do?
 
By "it behaves differently" I didn't mean "it magically fixes my issues", in case that wasn't obvious
 
Bob
Don't bother with funky workarounds for escaping shell syntax. Just stop using the shell.
 
3:07 PM
yup - feed it an array that gets passed as ARGV
 
Bob
@OliverSalzburg Unless you say why it's unsuitable, there's really not much else to suggest.
Even then, spawn can do literally anything exec can, with a little more legwork for some things.
 
Okay, let's start with the fact that I'm not calling exec directly. The application is using a dependency, which in turn uses exec. If I can avoid pulling that apart, I would prefer it
 
Bob
...well, that's a crappy library
(not that I really expect much else after having dealt with node for a bit.. shudder)
 
If the solution is as simple as using a different identifier than $$ or wrapping something in quotes, then that would obviously be preferable, because it requires much less work
 
Quick question about wheeled backpacks.
Has anyone here worked with an Osprey pack?
 
Bob
3:11 PM
@OliverSalzburg apart from monkey-patching (which JS totally lets you do, btw), you could probably load the command from a file.
 
I have a Meridian 22 due to arrive tomorrow.
It's going to replace my High Sierra Freewheel pack, which I've gone through two in about two years due to the wheels wearing out.
 
Bob
trying to work around shell syntax is just about the very last thing to try, if everything else fails
 
Decided to take the plunge on a high-end backpack because I've had enough with the wheels wearing out on even decent midrange packs.
 
@Bob Yeah, I was also trying to avoid that. I just wanted to make sure I'm not missing any obvious solutions, because I'm not familiar with all the technologies at work here
 
Bob
else you're gonna have a really fun time when it comes to some system that happens to run tcsh or ksh or powershell
 
3:14 PM
lol
Like the place I work in ;p
 
Bob
@OliverSalzburg just point it to a file.
end of the day, that'll be the simplest option.
not the cleanest, mind (fixing that library would be), but the easiest
 
Anyone?
 
said its Xeon D processor is made up of 4.3 billion transistors -- implying a transistor density of approximately 26.88 million transistors per square millimeter.
 
Bob
oh look there's also zsh now
[a-z]*sh
@DragonLord I prefer a light one. Wheels are not light.
 
The thing is, it's quite possible, that whoever wrote the execution/spawning abstraction in this software had a point when he picked exec over spawn or execFile. So, just switching to a different method might have implications that aren't immediately apparent to me or even you
 
Bob
3:16 PM
@OliverSalzburg ...oooooor the more likely option of it simply being the first thing they tried. because it's easy to get output from it
 
But, yeah, I'll copy that module, try a different method and see how that performs
 
Bob
If you really want to leave it alone, load the command from a file.
@OliverSalzburg Just about any case where the shell is invoked (analogous to using system in C, btw) is basically because someone was lazy or didn't know better
 
It feels dirty, I rather take the risk, if any exists ;D
 
Bob
the cases where it's actually beneficial or necessary are vanishingly rare
the only "useful" things I can think of right now are env variables and redirects (which should be done in the programming language, not passed to the shell)
again, because people are lazy
most of the time, such a call at the very best opens up a security hole
in worse cases, like now, it actively interferes with what you need to do
and it can often be near-impossible to figure out why after the fact
or how you've suddenly managed to wipe out /
even worse on *nix where /bin/sh can be any one of dozens of shells, with diferent special syntax
 
@Bob I've seen someone with an Osprey Ozone 28, a lightweight wheeled pack, and she said that it's held up to several years of highly intensive use, including over rough terrain. However, negative Amazon reviews have led me to select the more expensive Meridian instead.
 
Bob
3:22 PM
Bulky backpacks, especially with the rigidity required for wheels, aren't very comfortable for me.
 
@Bob As it turns out, that's why it was used, env variables. But I think I can find the path to psql anyway. Let's see :P
 
Bob
@OliverSalzburg also, making your own fork of the library is also suboptimal :\ (the only clean answer would be for upstream to fix it, which often just won't happen)
'cause now you're gonna have to merge any changes
Hm. I wonder if there's some way to get node to use execvp
Hey, it does.
So the search path is already used.
 
Relying on the shell when you both need the environment and rely on tools that can parse paths in the platforms native format is quite nice as it turns out
So, files it is, I guess
 
Bob
@OliverSalzburg 'cept spawn should already use the search path
any other env var can be trivially fetched
shrug
 
3:36 PM
posted on August 18, 2015

You can run (or walk), but you can’t hide.

 
3:55 PM
@DragonLord those are at least nice sized wheels. in 12-18monts i wear out a pair of shoes just walking the dog :-)
wonder if you can replace em ? amazon.com/s/…
put super ABEC 9 bearings in ( or some such overhyped brand stuff)
 
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