English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

00:25

Hey la, hey la, my boyfriend's back.

If I were you, I'd take a permanent vacation.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

01:13

Hey @skullpat.

Your boys looking good this year?

Mazura

Has it ever been proposed that all questions should have either British- or American- English as a tag?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Oh, probably.

tchrist

@Mazura Silly idea.

On so many levels.

Mazura

Why? You don't agree that they're entirely different beasts?

tchrist

Yes.

Amongst other things.

skull patrol

01:19

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 hi pal, they gotta build up the defence first. How bout them Chiefs?

Mitch

Some things are common across american and british (and australian and etc) english

tchrist

@Mitch Almost everything.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

^

Mitch

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 is that a well-wishing or a veiled threat. I think a permanent vacation would be kinda nice

tchrist

And for the things that aren’t, it’s nuts to pretend that "North American English" or "Insular English" or "Antipodes English" can each of them comprise all their respective variations.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

01:21

@Mitch It's a threat. If he doesn't scram, the boyfriend cannot fully save her reputation.

Mitch

@tchrist but I think the question is coming from a place where it is annoying when a person asks a question and the answer depends on whether one is speaking BrE or AmE (or other). So the question sounds parochial. which is annoying.

tchrist

@Mitch Those are rare. And those are what tags are for.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@skullpatrol I need to start paying attention.

tchrist

Two things here do pull a veil over man’s eye: recency delusion and locality delusion.

Mitch

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 that's what's at stake? I would think it is the structural integrity of this other guy's face when it meets the boy friend's knuckles.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

01:23

Locality delusion is everywhere.

3

tchrist

Claro.

Mitch

nice

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

:)

Mitch

Everyone is the main character in their own movie.

tchrist

Movie?

Tsk.

Mitch

01:24

Novel? What's the real quote?

skull patrol

Preseason starts this weekend @cornbreadninja麵包忍者 but in the end this is how we end up Made it, Ma! Top of the world!

Mitch

I fel like I've only heard movie.

tchrist

We’ve been through this.

> “In life,” he said, “there are no essentially major or minor characters. To that extent, all fiction and biography, and most historiography, is a lie. Everyone is necessarily the hero of his own life story.

> Every traveller is necessarily the hero of his own story, especially if he happens to travel alone. When he has the felicity of a companion the unavoidable egotism is obscured by the use of the social pronoun.

1812

Mitch

@Mazura a lot more questions should be tagged that way, but not everything about English is varietal.

Mazura

Using 'and' between numbers and what people call laundry rooms, comes to mind. I was hoping someone could point me at a meta post where this is 'status-declined'.

tchrist

01:26

> It should be recollected, also, that the author is necessarily the hero of his own tale, which is a disadvantage to some men when writing for the public, although it may add to the charm of the narrative, in the social circle.

1832

@Mitch If you believe that and haven’t fix fixed it yet, then you’re part of the problem not the solution. If you don’t actually believe that, then you’re part of a different problem altogether.

Mitch

But nobody reads anymore and TV shows don't have main characters. So movie it is.

tchrist

Fool.

Mitch

Wow you're a bit strong

tchrist

I matched your tone.

And determination of rightness.

I know no one who doesn’t read.

So apparently I know no one.

Mitch

ha ha, I was being hyperbolic

tchrist

01:28

1 min ago, by tchrist

Fool.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Speaking of reading, I don't know what to read next.

tchrist

It’s summer. I like to check out this year’s nominees and winners for Locus and Nebula.

Mitch

@tchrist I misread you all the time then. That just sounded more aggressive than joking.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Well, I have a short list in mind.

tchrist

Then you shall soon exhaust it.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

01:30

But that sounds nice too.

Mitch

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 have you read Anathem?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

There's always a short list right behind it.

@Mitch I haven't.

tchrist

@Mitch sighs

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

I just read my first DeLillo.

Yo quiero DeLillo.

But I was gonna read Gravity's Rainbow two books ago and didn't.

tchrist

@Mazura Post your request on meta and let the community ponder it.

Mitch

01:32

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 I'm considering it and am looking for opinions

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Mitch there's a subreddit for that.

tchrist

Anathem is long and weak and ponderous, but some people are easily taken in.

Mitch

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 for any book or just that one?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Is it Stephenson's American Gods?

@Mitch there might be one for just that one. Definitely one for books.

tchrist

1

Q: Shouldn't there be a necessary tag for the various dialects of English?

Shouldn't there be a necessary tag (a la meta.stackoverflow) for all questions, as some language features and spellings are unique to certain dialects of English, like brit-english, american-english or ozzie-english

discussion

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

01:33

reddit.com/r/books

Mazura

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 The Arthurian Saga quintet by Mary Stewart.

tchrist

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Gaiman.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@tchrist Yes, I know.

tchrist

American Gods is better.

Than Anathem.

Mazura

Thanks t

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

01:34

@tchrist Ah, okay.

tchrist

Anathem is 400pp longer than American Gods.

In hard-bound.

Mitch

so it is better...at pressing flowers?

tchrist

For things that go bump in the night. When they fall. Off. Your shelf.

Mitch

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 So what is American Gods considered for Neil Gaiman? Best ever?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Mitch shrug.

@Mitch have you read Infinite Jest?

That's a book worth its weight.

skull patrol

02:19

I prefer Finite Seriousness :-)

RegDwigнt

08:46

@Robusto this is news to you? Half of India is named after Hitler. Shoe stores, gas stations, ice cream, everything.

Faheem Mitha

@RegDwigнt That's the first I've heard of it. Your source, please.

RegDwigнt

My source is India. Jesus.

I am not googling for obvious things for you, sorry.

Just read the news every now and then.

Or read that very article. Where it says things like "famous politicians in India are named after Hitler".

Anyhow. What I am googling for right now is that other country where it's even worse. Something with T. Thailand or something. They basically worship Hitler. Not for what he's done but because they don't know what he's done. They release music videos with dancing Hitlers. They paint Hitler on every school fence.

@FaheemMitha there, go read Wikipedia or something.

Adolf Hitler in popular culture

Adolf Hitler (20 April 1889 – 30 April 1945) was the leader of the National Socialist German Workers' Party and Chancellor of Nazi Germany from 1933 (Führer from 1934) to 1945. Hitler has been represented in popular culture ever since he became a well-known politician in Germany. His distinctive image was often parodied by his opponents. Parodies became much more prominent outside Germany during his period in power. Since the end of World War II representations of Hitler, both serious and satirical, have continued to be prominent in popular culture, sometimes generating significant controversy...

> The "Hitler" clothing store in Ahmedabad in Gujarat opened in mid-August 2012. The store immediately became embroiled in controversy over its name.[38] The store's logo even had a swastika embedded in the dot above the "i" in Hitler's name. The owner, Rajesh Shah, told media he did not expect all the commotion. He had chosen the name because the grandfather of his business partner was nicknamed "Hitler" because of his strict demeanor.

Faheem Mitha

@RegDwigнt I live in Freaking India. Jesus.

Please refrain from talking about things you know nothing about.

RegDwigнt

@FaheemMitha then it is all the more appalling that you don't read the news.

Or Wikipedia.

Faheem Mitha

@RegDwigнt Do you have any idea how big India is?

RegDwigнt

08:54

Yes. It's much, much tinier than my country. And yet I have no problem reading the news from my country. And from India.

So anyway.

I was googling for that other country.

There. It's Thailand after all.

Last Week Tonight with John Oliver - Thailand HITLER

►

Faheem Mitha

@RegDwigнt I think it is likely you know nothing about India. So please refrain from saying things about it. Thank you.

RegDwigнt

Clearly here we have proof of the opposite.

I know something that you don't.

So it is you who are talking about things he knows nothing about.

Please refrain from that.

I did not start this conversation, by the way.

Someone else posted an article.

Someone else researched it before that.

And someone else, in India, named his ice cream brand Hitler.

This is not my fault.

Go blame them. Call them. It's a local call for you.

I am not the perpetrator. I am not even the messenger. I am just an innocent bystander.

I have said exactly nothing about India that is not a verifiable fact. And when asked for sources, I provided sources. Your pointless flagwaving will not stand.

skull patrol

09:12

Made it, Ma! Top of the world!

:D

So @RegDwigнt some mod shows up in the math room to investigate some flags and he posts a gif of a ban hammer to "lighten up the mood"

Then he threatens me with a suspension for being rude.

Next thing you know 8 of them are in there :O

That was me on "Top of the world!"

Try not to take it so personally @FaheemMitha

This is not a war zone where you have to defend your country pal.

It's the Internet.

New and Improved?

RegDwigнt

09:42

@skullpatrol it's not like the country is under attack in the first place.

Nobody said anything bad about it. People said a thing. They didn't say it was bad.

You could say things about America all day, and exactly none of the Americans here would shut you up.

They don't even have to be true. They could be blatant lies.

skull patrol

But that's just it. They Are Americans

RegDwigнt

I really think Americans should stop gang-raping their women on the bus.

skull patrol

Some People are more nationalistic than others, no?

RegDwigнt

And doesn't it suck that America is the only country where the plague is still rampant?

@skullpatrol yeah. About that. You know who else was more nationalistic than others? Hitler.

That might explain on a subliminal level some countries' obsession with him.

skull patrol

It really comes out during the world cup

Olympics

RegDwigнt

09:47

Yes. And you know who never came out during the world cup? Hitler. (Also, Tom Cruise. But mainly Hitler.)

So he's actually half bad!

skull patrol

Cruise is a Scientology nut.

They should name a nuclear missile after him.

This is the war room there's no fighting here.

Kyth'Py1k

Just a quick question: How would you all pronounce Kaithirah? (It's a made up word)

RegDwigнt

[kaɪ̯'θɪrə]

skull patrol

^

Kyth'Py1k

Where can I learn what that means?

skull patrol

09:59

Wikipedia

RegDwigнt

It's the International Phonetic Alphabet.

International Phonetic Alphabet

The International Phonetic Alphabet (unofficially—though commonly—abbreviated IPA) is an alphabetic system of phonetic notation based primarily on the Latin alphabet. It was devised by the International Phonetic Association as a standardized representation of the sounds of oral language. The IPA is used by lexicographers, foreign language students and teachers, linguists, speech-language pathologists, singers, actors, constructed language creators, and translators. The IPA is designed to represent only those qualities of speech that are part of oral language: phones, phonemes, intonation, and the...

Kyth'Py1k

Ah ok ty.

RegDwigнt

skull patrol

Good job @RegDwigнt

:-)

You froze the math room

Thanks pal

^that is my last message in here.

RegDwigнt

@skullpatrol no problem. Anytime.

Robusto

10:10

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 I don't think everyone else got this reference, but I could be wrong. Better cut out on the double.

RegDwigнt

If it's Arrested Development, I will never get it.

skull patrol

Room for Alec Teal and Oli

Kyth'Py1k

Interesting. The person I asked said they would pronounce it like [keəθɪrə], though they weren't a linguist as far as I know. Do you think people will have trouble pronouncing it?

RegDwigнt

Of course they will.

Nobody can be sure to correctly pronounce a word they've not pronounced or heard spoken before.

That's like, obvious.

You only know how to pronounce "know" because you already know it.

If I showed you "know" for the first time, you'd have trouble pronouncing it.

And Kaithirah of course is way more strange.

skull patrol

Who is this "Oli" guy?

RegDwigнt

10:17

Plus if I interpret your capitalizing it correctly, it's a name, and names don't care about any rules at all.

skull patrol

Where does he get off on freezing my room?

>:(

RegDwigнt

Ten people with the exact same name can, and often will, pronounce it ten different ways.

skull patrol

Can I file a complaint?

RegDwigнt

@skullpatrol yeah for how long actually? It's been like half a year already and it's still frozen.

I know there's an indication in one place, but I'm too lazy to look.

And they deleted two messages of mine.

Kyth'Py1k

Ok, thanks everyone.

RegDwigнt

10:21

Including this one:

> Yeah, see. You can't even interpret words. No wonder you can't reinterpret them. QED.

I guess because it was too offensive to black gay muslim Russians?

Oh well. Those Russians just suck.

We only had the black plague because of Crimea.

200 million people died. Awful!

RegDwigнt

10:33

@skullpatrol there, it's live again.

skull patrol

Thanks for the info pal @RegDwigнt

Oli overreacted

19 mins ago, by skull patrol

Who is this "Oli" guy?

One does not simply freeze the math room.

RegDwigнt

I have no idea what's going on in that room right now.

skull patrol

Let things settle down.

RegDwigнt

I still don't understand what the things are.

But nobody's been saying anything forever, so it's settled down alright.

skull patrol

10:48

We are in shock

He's a tough guy

Like me

ToolPurger

@RegDwigнt please don't share information like that in a public chat.

It should be confidential.

RegDwigнt

Oh I wasn't aware it wasn't public. Sorry.

But the fact that he has been suspended X times is certainly well known to every regular.

ToolPurger

You were not aware the "english-language-usage" chat was public?

skull patrol

Delete please

ToolPurger

Yes.

RegDwigнt

10:50

@ToolPurger no. That's not what I said. Re-read.

Huy

It is well known, I didn't know a number though. I would have guessed it to be higher to be honest.

RegDwigнt

@skullpatrol I've long edited it.

@Huy See.

Huy

@RegDwigнt: They are right that you shouldn't publicly announce that number though, after all.

RegDwigнt

Yes.

ToolPurger

@RegDwigнt you need to delete it

skull patrol

10:52

@RegDwigнt you got the power to delete

ToolPurger

chat.stackexchange.com/messages/23252473/history

If you click "history" you can see what it was.

RegDwigнt

Exactly. And you can still do that for deleted messages.

skull patrol

I've been suspended over 9,000 times

Huy

@skullpatrol: You wish.

ToolPurger

@RegDwigнt deleted messages don't have an info link for not-mods

RegDwigнt

10:53

OIC.

Not entirely sure Google cares about that.

skull patrol

Thanks @RegDwigнt

ToolPurger

Employers googling people is very common @RegDwigнt - Alec Teal is clearly (can confirm it is) a real name.

RegDwigнt

@skullpatrol this room only had like three people suspended in its entire history.

ToolPurger

@RegDwigнt please don't share that information

skull patrol

Can I be the fourth? @RegDwigнt

RegDwigнt

10:54

@ToolPurger I'm not sure what you're getting it. If someone regularly misbehaves, we should hide that fact from potential employers?

ToolPurger

@RegDwigнt that isn't your place to say. There's a "moderator agreement" you're breaking

RegDwigнt

@ToolPurger it's common knowledge. Or a plain lie. I have not looked up a number anywhere. And even if I did, you'd not know if I did. Nobody ever would.

skull patrol

He should not use his real name.

ToolPurger

@RegDwigнt one suspension from SE was for the swear word in RTFM, that was a 30 day one.

Hardly important, but either way, it's not for you to reveal.

skull patrol

He is a tough guy

Like me

ToolPurger

10:57

Don't go on the war path just because he burned you in a chat.

RegDwigнt

I never went on the war path. What is even going on? I never went on any path at all.

skull patrol

Don't you either pal

RegDwigнt

And at no point was I under the impression that someone burned me.

ToolPurger

.....

Sure.

I read the log though, his responses were hilarious. That's what I meant by burn.

It was also in good faith because as Alec said "banter"

RegDwigнt

I wrote the log though, my responses were hilarious as well.

Huy

10:58

@ToolPurger: That suspension was not just for the one instance. As you said yourself: You're not a regular. You're just restating his biased point of view.

RegDwigнt

I don't even know what "banter" or "burn" means.

ToolPurger

@Huy I know Alec

@RegDwigнt they were not funny.

Huy

@ToolPurger: And I know what's been going on here for years.

ToolPurger

Very well.

BRB guys

RegDwigнt

@ToolPurger chat.stackexchange.com/search?q=suspended&room=36

skull patrol

11:00

Alec is semi-tough, Reg is semi-tough

RegDwigнt

in Mathematics, May 7 '12 at 21:43, by Peter Tamaroff

Why was Bill suspended?

in Mathematics, Jan 30 '12 at 4:46, by Mariano Suárez-Alvarez

@RajeshD, he was suspended twice

in Mathematics, Apr 3 '13 at 23:01, by user19161

Oh no, Mick got suspended...

in Mathematics, Jan 31 '13 at 14:44, by skullpatrol

Bill D. was suspended for a year.

in Mathematics, Jun 5 '12 at 16:14, by Eugene

nice i got suspended.

in Mathematics, Oct 16 '14 at 19:26, by Alizter

Why was Mhenni suspended?

in Mathematics, Apr 10 '12 at 14:17, by Matt N.

Dr. Allen has been suspended.

skull patrol

STAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP

RegDwigнt

Hammertime.

Alec Teal

@RegDwigнt I have come here to formally request you not talk about me 1) behind my back 2) in a public chat - by all means confer with mods, but do so in private.

Also that wasn't funny either.

skull patrol

Commies?

RegDwigнt

11:02

I do not understand the request. Point 1) and 2) directly contradict one another.

Alec Teal

@Cerberus - YES, totally agree with the win 10 stuff, but I use Linux :)

skull patrol

1 =/= 2

Huy

@AlecTeal: To join into that new discussion: Why is everyone "fucked" if they install Windows 10? Some people have less to hide than others. Why do I care if Microsoft knows that I'm going to the Zoo next week?

RegDwigнt

@Huy because first they came for the socialists, and you did not speak out.

Alec Teal

@Huy sure that's one argument, and it sounds great until you remember that the NSA spy leaks showed that the agents used the data to spy on exes and stuff.

But lets go elsewhere shall we. I've said what I came to say.

skull patrol

11:05

Wiki leaks?

Alec Teal

Snowden.

skull patrol

Informer

Matt E. Эллен

Snow - Informer 1992 HQ

►

RegDwigнt

@ToolPurger so why is it for you to reveal?

Matt E. Эллен

tracks in the snow
track in the now
rack in he now
rack i he ow
i rack home

illuminati QED

skull patrol

11:23

Everything is freezing :(

RegDwigнt

11:36

@MattE.Эллен oh, I know, I know! "What are five ways to misspell snow den?"

Matt E. Эллен

Is the maths room always like that?

RegDwigнt

As a regular to the maths room yes, it is always like that.

Alec Teal

No.

Huy

Not always, but more often than you'd think.

Alec Teal

You joined today Dwight and caused this. Take it seriously.

RegDwigнt

11:37

Remember how often they suspended Jasper for saying completely innocuous things.

@AlecTeal I did not join today. Get your facts straight.

Alec Teal

Ah yes, I've not seen Jasper for a while, but show some respect, he suffered from some quite serious things.

RegDwigнt

It's only today that I got the Outspoken badge, though. So thanks for that.

Haha this room's been infected.

Well at least now we've narrowed the circle of potential perpetrators down to two.

Bob

Soo....

Matt E. Эллен

If the flags keep coming, then I will kick who is raising them. Yes, the flag names the raiser.

RegDwigнt

@AlecTeal precisely my point. The Math room could have been considerably less cruel to him.

Alec Teal

11:43

@MattE.Эллен while I'm sure that information is stored, if it was revealed, why would a mod be trying to narrow it down.

Also there are 4 people.

RegDwigнt

I count 16.

Your math is off.

Also, why would a mod not be allowed to have fun? Challenges are for everyone. Even Zeus liked challenges.

He could have easily looked it up that it had been Jabbahuttius all along. But it was more fun to play detective.

Matt E. Эллен

@AlecTeal Probably because they were the one being flagged. I doubt (I don't know) the person whose message is being flagged can act on the flags. That would be a conflict of interest

Alec Teal

Indeed.

RegDwigнt

More like a conflict of disinterest.

Matt E. Эллен

:D

skull patrol

11:46

I've had Enough conflict today

I should join my pal jasper.

RegDwigнt

Thankfully at least it was gratis.

Robusto

There are the culprits.

RegDwigнt

Imagine having to pay for this. SE would get richer than Microsoft in an hour.

Matt E. Эллен

damnit! kicks @Robusto

skull patrol

:D

RegDwigнt

11:47

@Robusto why are those assholes tearing down an American flag????

skull patrol

Master^

Robusto

@RegDwigнt You're looking at it backwards. Try upside down this time.

skull patrol

Truly a masterpiece

RegDwigнt

@Robusto the wind gives it away. If they were erecting it, the flag would be moving upwards, not down from its original higher position.

tchrist

Sack the sackers.

RegDwigнt

11:49

I blame Kubrick.

Even the moon landing was way more convincing.

crl

Does a cabriolet consume more fuel than a normal car (all other parameters equal)?

Robusto

I doubt it.

RegDwigнt

Hm. A good question for a car.SE, do we even have a car.SE?

I know we have bicycles, but cars?

crl

[cars.se] seems no

Robusto

How about crap? Crap.SE? Oh, wait, that's ELU.

RegDwigнt

11:52

There's an ELU?

First time I hear.

tchrist

Actually, it’s all SE sites.

Robusto

0

Q: Dressing gown vs housecoat

As far as I can tell they refer to the same thing. I'd like to know the roots of both, and if possible the history of their evolution. Specifically if the usage is influenced by social class, if possible?

history language-evolution

Seriously? Did you even make a head fake at a dictionary?

RegDwigнt

@tchrist Oh thanks. BRB asking about cars on Maths, then.

@Robusto he even misspelled "dressing clown vs housegoat". Noob.

Matt E. Эллен

RegDwigнt

Matte to the rescue.

Robusto

11:53

Did you even make a head fake toward a dictionary before asking here? — Robusto 11 secs ago

Matt E. Эллен

tips hat

RegDwigнt

mechanics.stackexchange.com/search?q=cabriolet

Not much in ways of cabriolets, though.

crl

thanks for the links

RegDwigнt

@Robusto easy, we've had enough popcorn for today. Our recommendation for the rest of it is pretending nothing exists.

Matt E. Эллен

@crl no probs

tchrist

11:55

You guys aren’t following the room topic very well.

RegDwigнt

Sorry, I'm only following the first half.

Matt E. Эллен

I'm following it badly. is that not enough anymore?

RegDwigнt

Wanted to save the best for later.

Room for Alec Teal and Oli

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…