English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

12:03 AM

-1

A: Is “I feel like a piece of meat” popular phrase? Isn’t it embarrassing for women to use this phrase?

It is sexist and in some cases even racist, why would you call a schwartze a piece of meat, or a woman a piece of meat? It is clearly deragatory in nature ...

Schwartze? Really?

And now what have we done?

Either somebody’s been watching too much Mel Brooks, or

Cerberus

Good evening.

tchrist

It is raining.

Day number of I forget, like 27 or 28 or 30.

Lightly now. Hailed furiously earlier.

Houses are slipping off their precipices.

I don’t think my basil liked the hail.

It has that sayonara look.

Putting in basil before you can even wear white shoes was perhaps not the best of ideas.

Cerberus

12:37 AM

27 rainy days in a row?

It was raining this afternoon.

But the night is dry.

tchrist

1:28 AM

Not in a row, but in a month.

It didn’t rain yesterday, at least while I was awake. A friend in Denver said it rained there in the early evening. But I was already asleep here then now, so to speak.

Cerberus

And how much rain per day?

I'm sure months where there is some rain almost every day are not uncommon here...

tchrist

I don’t know, but we’re at 60-70% of annual just in this month alone.

Of the average annual rainfall of course.

Some places in Boulder County have reported 19 inches in May.

That’s about our annual average.

Which is like 18 or 20, I forget.

Keep in mind that Boulder County would be about a third the size of Holland, if it were as flat.

Rather, just measuring longitude and latitude, not the angle part. Flattened it would be substantially larger than unflattened.

There are farmers on the plains who won’t get to plant their crops this year because of the water.

Please don’t suggest dikes again. :)

We got 9 inches before May.

Robusto

1:58 AM

@MattE.Эллен Most. Boring. Privilege. Ever.

Cerberus

2:28 AM

@tchrist Dikes.

Didn't you get 100% of annual rainfall earlier this year? Or was it last year?

So much rain, over the past 12 months!

tchrist

@Cerberus Year before last.

Cerberus

Really?

Your cellar was flooded in 2013?

tchrist

2013

Yes.

And technically, it’s a finished basement, but yes.

Cerberus

It seems like yesterday.

tchrist

I know.

Cerberus

2:30 AM

A finished basement?

tchrist

Not dirt or cement. Normal floors and ceilings and walls and such. Furnished.

@Cerberus I lot my cat, and my father, and I still cannot stop dreaming about it all.

Cerberus

Oh, I see.

@tchrist That only makes sense.

Time heals all wounds, but you need a lot of it.

The new kitties were a very good idea.

tchrist

Yes. But I still have some PTSD effects . . . about various things.

Cerberus

By healing I mean acceptance, not oblivion.

tchrist

Oblivion shall come soon enough, will I or nill I.

Cerberus

2:34 AM

About other events than the ones you mentioned?

Soon, but not so soon.

tchrist

Probably. You know some of them.

Cerberus

How is your burned friend?

Medically and financially?

Or no changes?

tchrist

He is returned to his former abode after spending a helpless week here following the second round of grafts.

Cerberus

That is good, I suppose.

I have told this story to some people.

Anonymously.

tchrist

And back in his job, or a job at his former employer. They had replaced him already, but gave him a better job for the same salary and benefits without lapsing.

They took him back.

But not in his old job.

Cerberus

2:36 AM

Oh!

That is great!

Or isn't it?

So they aren't heartless monsters after all?

tchrist

It is. It's a better job in a way.

Cerberus

This is all very good news, then.

tchrist

Oh, I think they are.

Cerberus

So why did they rehire him, then?

tchrist

I can’t imagine him ever going swimming again. It will be a long time. Years.

Because for the most part it is hard to get people worth keeping there, so salaried rather than hourly staff are hard to get.

And it is working in one of the most dangerous places, too.

Cerberus

2:38 AM

I see.

Then I wonder why they fired him in the first place.

tchrist

Because he used sick days into May, and just began again before June 1, he did not lapse a 30-day salary period and therefore they paid his health insurance.

They had to hire someone to do the job he was doing.

It was a manager slot. They had to have a manager.

Cerberus

@tchrist That is great! So his debt is manageable now?

tchrist

But the new job is better because it is days Sun-Thu instead of nights Fri-Wed.

He doesn’t know.

Cerberus

@tchrist They could have just got some temporary replacement.

tchrist

He refuses to open the hospital bills.

Cerberus

2:40 AM

Hmm.

But a large part will be paid by insurance?

tchrist

He’s waiting for something; I forget what.

Yes, most of it will be paid by insurance. But not sick time etc.

But most of something approaching $100,000 is still a great deal of financial hurt.

The big question is his max out-of-pocket number.

Cerberus

Most, even?

What if he should go bankrupt: will he be allowed to keep his house?

tchrist

He may have a 3k, 6k, even 10 or 12k max out of pocket.

He rents from a slum lord who has an evil gas heater that burns people to death.

Cerberus

Yes, well, I used to have one of those.

tchrist

My policy actually has a 3k max out of pocket but my company reimburses that at 100%.

Cerberus

2:42 AM

Luckily, I only ever got a small burn.

tchrist

You are lucky.

I also would have had 90 days temporary disability at full pay. He got nothing.

Cerberus

I sat with my back to it and bumped my naked elbow against it.

tchrist

Plus a job guarantee, too.

Yes, like that.

Cerberus

Good.

tchrist

You just cannot imagine the difference between the benefits of professionals versus those of the "working poor" here.

Cerberus

2:44 AM

Right.

tchrist

And yet I think my parents earned not much more than he does now. It is simply hard.

Cerberus

What is hard?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@tchrist We've had 11+ inches in May.

tchrist

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 We were at that about a week ago IIRC, or going on.

Cerberus

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 If you switch to cm, you will get more.

tchrist

2:45 AM

She doesn’t want more!!!

Cerberus

Hehe.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Cerberus that's what he said.

Cerberus

Haha ouch!

tchrist

@Cerberus Just living in this oppressive labor environment.

Cerberus

Or, rather, was that what you said to him?

@tchrist Ah OK.

tchrist

2:46 AM

If the unions hadn’t been crushed, it might be different.

Cerberus

How were they crushed?

tchrist

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 I’ve heard it might not rain tomorrow.

Cerberus

Unions are not doing well here either.

tchrist

MADISON, Wis. — Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker on Friday signed into law the proposal that eliminates most union rights for public employees, saying he had "no doubt" that support for the measure would grow over time.

No more collective bargaining. They did evil things because of the loss of the union contract. My step-dad finally threw in the towel and "retired" this past March when he turned 62 because it was such bullshit.

Walker is a very evil man. And very popular.

This shit is going on all over the place here now.

> From 1960 to 2000 the percentage of workers in the United States belonging to a labor union fell from 30% to 13%

But it doesn’t matter if you are in a union if the union cannot negotiate your contract.

However, in Ohio they managed to save it. Barely.

> All public sector strikes would become illegal. Binding arbitration would be eliminated. Health insurance and staffing would be off-limits for negotiation. Pay increases could only be in the form of merit pay.

That’s what they’re trying to pull everywhere.

The Republicans want to crush the teachers unions.

And every other possible union.

Because they see it as costing the bosses money they could be pocketing.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

3:16 AM

@tchrist I've heard the same.

tchrist

3:35 AM

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Hope springs eternal, but so too the heavens.

Robusto

9:25 AM

@tchrist Just be glad you don't live in Kansas. Well, I've been glad of that my whole life, but especially now.

Robusto

9:56 AM

0

Q: What do you call a person, who needs to stay active in order to feel comfortable?

There are some people, who always need to do something. They can't just sit and relax. If they are on the job, they constantly try to change something (e. g. propose new approaches to existing tasks). If they go on vacation, they visit all possible places. These people are mentally healthy, even...

expressions

Dupe.

Robusto

11:14 AM

@tchrist Yes, and their solution will ultimately be to worsen education. They just want to pay less money to working people so that the rich can skim more off the top.

crl

11:37 AM

37

Q: What do you call hypothetical inhabitants living on the Moon?

I'm writing a fiction where inhabitants live on the Moon, so I want a name for them. I know that 'venusian' means 'of or relating to the planet Venus', 'martian' means 'of or relating to the planet Mars or its hypothetical inhabitants' and so on. But, after having observed that 'moonian' is not ...

single-word-requests

just found this funny question

Robusto

12:04 PM

Just scored 4.85/5.0 on the Duolingo Spanish Progress Test. I only wish they would give you access to your answers instead of just a score.

Cerberus

Woohoo!

So your Spanish is almost perfect?

crl

His english is 0.97 perfect

Cerberus

Yay!

terdon

@Robusto Grr, I just took it and failed two because 1) they didn't accept don't and wanted did not and 2) the bloody computer accent was wrong, making que lees sounds like quel es.

tchrist

Quel est ton problème?

Sounds like my experience.

terdon

12:22 PM

@tchrist Hang on, there's no quel in Spanish is there? Only qual.

Damned Latin languages.

tchrist

*cual

terdon

Oh yeah. I keep forgetting they've gone the q->c way.

Robusto

@terdon I have a really hard time with their pronunciation. Terminal /r/ and /l/ can be really hard to distinguish, for example.

crl

funny nicholas vs nicolas

tchrist

Thus spake the Japanese.

terdon

12:23 PM

@Robusto Not in Peninsular Spanish at least.

Robusto

@tchrist There is no /l/ in Japanese.

cual es tu problema?

No tengo problemas.

Sino oportunidades.

ninguno seguro?

12:25 PM

Quid est problema tuum?

Although I don't think the Romans used that word.

crl

can't speak latin anymore :(

You tried!

@crl Jamás.

¿Y antes?

It looked Latin enough!

tchrist

12:26 PM

aeterna

Robusto

Nix aeterna?

tchrist

See, the elderly have a song for every quote.

crl

@Robusto vale

terdon

@Robusto Sounds like a name for a UNIX OS.

tchrist

@crl Morituri te salutant.

Oh wait, that was ave not vale. I always get those birds confused.

Robusto

12:29 PM

Oops, gotta go ride before it gets too hot. Already almost 70 here.

BTW, @tchrist, you're getting all our rain. This has been the second driest May on record for these parts.

tchrist

Really??

Robusto

Yes.

tchrist

Maybe they could invent a river for you.

Robusto

I've ridden my bike practically every single day.

@tchrist We already have the Charles and the Mystic and the Assabet.

And so to ride . . .

tchrist

Our paper had a story about some Boulder researcher going to Amsterdam to study biking policies. I don’t think it was about umbrellas though.

crl

12:32 PM

@Robusto same here, and since more than a month

tchrist

Not that it bothers me but just so you know, you’re calquing despuis or desde when you write since there. Germanic languages like for for that expression.

crl

I should rant on reddit or somewhere on how useless are bicycle path, I appreciate their efforts to build them, but they are impractical

tchrist

Why impractical?

crl

they are often on sidewalks, you have to stop at each intersection

tchrist

Well, the good ones are not that way.

We have bike paths that go under the intersection.

The problem is that then they have to split the underpass with pedestrians.

Whereas normally those are separate from the sidewalk.

But underpasses are very expensive to build.

crl

12:37 PM

I guess..

tchrist

We do them a lot here because of all the students who ride bikes.

And it is only for main streets.

crl

I don't really mind being on the road with cars, when they are large enough

tchrist

Usually a dedicated, marked bike lane as part of the road is all you get.

They have them even on our roads leading west in the county, where the elevation gains a mile in a brief time. This is actually somewhat dangerous because of the curves, and people not staying in their lane.

Worse is not to have a bike lane and a group riding several abreast.

crl

yes

Would a higher proportion of 2-wheelers make traffic more fluid or not?

tchrist

You might like our county roads. I don’t know. Depends on whether you like hills or plains. And we also have county parks with bike paths if you have fat tires.

crl

12:40 PM

I love hills, plains are boring

tchrist

I bet today I would pass 50 bikers if I took the road by my house going west to connect to the new north–south routes.

There are bikeshops at the bottom of that road. :)

crl

Oh, I'd love to be in such a group, but on plain racing bikes are sensibly faster, on hills though I can compete

tchrist

Looks at this Google Map but then switch it to the Google Earth view for a better appreciation of what happens on the roads directly to my west.

The two north–south yellow highways (circle-72 and badge-36) are connected by a bunch of east–west roads that bikers love.

They have bike lanes on them.

The grade can be serious. You basically need to gain a mile on the z-axis over the ten on the y-axis.

Some people just ride on the plains, which is much less work but much less thrill.

crl

yep relief view

yes, that's serious mountains, not just hills

tchrist

Yes. The white parts are that way for a reason. :)

You can switch to "terrain" view in the map view to see the "topo" lines.

The shading is pretty well done.

I usually take Lefthand Canyon Drive up. It’s very scenic, and much tell travelled than say Highway 119.

crl

12:52 PM

oh it's in feet

tchrist

heh

crl

13200' North Arapaho peek

tchrist

Yes.

Not that that’s anything to scoff at: 13200' is serious. Edward Abbey famously wrote that there are no great thinkers at 13,000 feet. :)

He was a park ranger at Arches National Park, a desert park where summer temperatures can push 45C. So he would go up to the top of the nearby La Sal Mountains for relief. But they’re thirteeners so the air is quite thin. That’s the source of his comment.

crl

compared to that the Mont Ventoux is a piece of cake

Are those mountains ridable with bike?

not to the peek of course, but the passes/saddle

tchrist

If there is a road, you can ride a bike on it.

For certain values of road, bike, and you. :)

crl

12:56 PM

hehe ok

tchrist

There are sometimes bike routes that are not on roads, but they are short.

crl

if there a road, there's some hope

well I say that, but I love going out of path in hiking (with a gps!)

tchrist

Another route that’s a favorite of bikers is Highway 5 to the top of Mount Evans, starting usually down at Idaho Springs and taking 103 to Echo Lake then 5 up the mountain.

That one is is 14,255'. I’ve seen people in their 70s doing it. Amazingly.

crl

14000'+ oowoh

tchrist

And yes, that is a paved road, not a dirt road.

crl

1:00 PM

almost need oxygen masks..

tchrist

Yes, but imagine the ride down!!!

crl

@tchrist yes, if the conditions are good

tchrist

Colorado has 54 such "fourteeners" and countless thirteeners, far more than any other state.

@crl You can get caught by a snow storm in the middle of July at the top. It is never a sure thing, but some days are better than others. The weird thing is that the higher you go, the more intense the sun and so the less apparent cold if you are in the sun. The second a cloud hits though, you freeze.

It makes you feel good to be alive when you are up there.

I don’t exactly know why.

Also, for those of us who are past 30, we again see the world as it was when we were little children, for the extreme amount of blue light counters the natural yellowing of the lens, and the brightness counters some of the dimming.

Perhaps that is part of it. I don’t know.

crl

what you call fourteeners are 14000'+ mountains?

tchrist

Yes, that’s exactly right.

It is a local term.

But very common here.

crl

1:05 PM

@tchrist yes the weather can change fastly in mountains

tchrist

Timberline (treeline) is at 11,500 – 12,000', depending.

Which is pretty high. This is thanks to our comparatively low latitude.

But that helps because you aren’t exposed without cover for so long.

We have a road in town named Baseline Road. It runs exactly along the parallel at 40° 0′ 0″ north latitude.

crl

hehe, usually those lines are states boundaries in USA

tchrist

Often enough.

crl

bl.ocks.org/mbostock/4060606

either a river or a parallel or a longitude

or an oblique for California

tchrist

That an interesting map.

Bad unemployment in the worst of the population centers. Still, that was 2008, many a year ago.

crl

1:19 PM

Yep, I'm trying to make a visualization (but on France government's open data)

something like a Dorling cartogram mbostock.github.io/protovis/ex/cartogram.html

tchrist

Even though those are just rates, it’s still biased in that the low density zones are often but not always low unemployment rate too. It seems correlated, but not strictly so.

crl

or an anamorphose slate.fr/widgets/matamix/anad3_lib_s_v4.html

tchrist

Those are always fun.

crl

@tchrist yes, high density zones are also the ones with unemployment

well except NY, well forget it, it's not exactly

tchrist

@crl What does that represent? Unemployment?

Why am I the only green state? :)

Because it is mine? I don't think so.

Density? No, Wyoming is less dense.

It looks kinda like unemployment, but I didn’t think anyone was close to that bad.

Ok, I see.

They need to update it with more recent years.

Size is population.

Color is hm, unemployment?

crl

1:24 PM

mbostock.github.io/protovis/ex/cartogram.html <- this one represents obesity (circles color), and its evolution during this century, yes you're in one healthy state

Johan Larsson

So Tom, are you interested in participating in a reading group for GEB?

tchrist

Notice the bizarre correlation between state's obesity color and its unemployment color!

@JohanLarsson No, but thank you for asking. It has been too long. I read it in high school.

Johan Larsson

read it again?

I'm not sure I'll read it. Ordered it but also ordered 21 other books that I'm more eager to read.

but lurking is free.

tchrist

Reading is better than lurking.

Johan Larsson

the group is in a room on SO

tchrist

1:28 PM

I don’t know that I’ve ever before ordered more than a score of books at one shot.

Johan Larsson

how many is a score?

tchrist

A fifth of a century. :)

> Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Johan Larsson

there can be some perl-talk in the room. Think a couple of them like perl.

tchrist

You remind of something important I have to do.

The North American Perl conference is in a coupla weeks.

Johan Larsson

ok I tried to lure you in :)

Robusto

2:04 PM

20.6 miles today. Wanted to go for 25 but the knee . . .

That's 33.2 km for you people who have been decimated.

Mitch

2:26 PM

@Robusto what app is that?

@JohanLarsson what room is it? and when do you all 'meet'?

Johan Larsson

2:45 PM

1 hour ago, by Johan Larsson

the group is in a room on SO

It is low activity, think the plan is to start 15/6

Self-propelled mower on autopilot

►

Robusto

@Mitch Garmin Connect. It has a map with it as well, but I cropped that out so as not to leave calling cards.

crl

3:46 PM

@Robusto not bad

I wish I had a training partner, it should make it funnier if we go at comparable speed

Robusto

4:08 PM

True.

Faheem Mitha

5:36 PM

Is it correct to say "there are many problems. notable examples of these are foo and bar?"

crl

6:05 PM

foo and bar are very problematic

maybe you can ~~of these~~

"There are many problems. Notable examples are foo and bar?"

Faheem Mitha

@crl Is the former wrong then? or just awkward?

crl

Ahh wait a bit for a more expert user to answer ;) (I'm not a native English speaker)

In French both would be correct

Faheem Mitha

@crl ok. my question was basically singular vs plural.

crl

"Il y a de nombreux problèmes, Des exemples notables (de ceux-ci) étant foo et bar"

Faheem Mitha

@crl ok

crl

6:08 PM

should certainly be plural

Faheem Mitha

6:26 PM

@crl ok, thanks.

crl

6:48 PM

yw

Robusto

7:27 PM

@FaheemMitha It's what's called a "comma splice."

> A comma splice is the use of a comma to join two independent clauses. For example: It is nearly half past five, we cannot reach town before dark. Although acceptable in some languages and compulsory in others (e.g. Bulgarian), comma splices are usually considered style errors in English.

You could, however, say "There are many problems, notable examples being foo and bar."

Faheem Mitha

@Robusto Is my original version bad then?

Robusto

It's a comma splice.

Faheem Mitha

@Robusto actually, I don't have a comma in what I posted. :-)

Cerberus

8:24 PM

@FaheemMitha A missing capital then.

So I don't see a problem in your example.

What plural are you concerned about?

user116848

Hi!

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus The "these". Sorry, I'm sloppy with my punctuation on chat.

Cerberus

Hi!

@FaheemMitha Since the antecedent "problems" is plural, these would be right.

But, as Ctrl suggested, I would probably leave out "of these" altogether?

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus Ok. Because it is implied/understood?

Cerberus

Yes.

Faheem Mitha

8:28 PM

Then two two clauses would probably be better joined by a comma, or better a semi-colon.

Cerberus

As to this, you would use that if you were referring to the previous sentence as a whole, or to the situation in general; but, from what follows, it is clear that you are in fact referring to the problems specifically.

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus right

Cerberus

@FaheemMitha A semicolon would be my first choice, but I don't think anyone would object to your full stop. A comma, however, makes it a comma splice, which would be informal.

As Rob suggested.

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus Yes, a comma feels like the wrong choice here.

Cerberus

Yay!

Faheem Mitha

8:30 PM

@Cerberus yay?

Cerberus

Yay, we agree!

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus Ah. Ok, yay then.