TeX, LaTeX and Friends - 2015-05-19 (page 1 of 2)

12:06 AM

@yo' Oh sorry, I had a meeting and forgot my browser tab opened. :( I'm sick at the moment, trying very hard to recover as fast as possible. :)

Johannes_B

10:45 AM

pling <- sound of a pin falling to the ground.

David Carlisle

@Johannes_B shh we're working

Johannes_B

@DavidCarlisle :-)

Paulo Cereda

Quaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack

Rico

11:04 AM

ohai o/

egreg

@PauloCereda Your cold doesn't affect your voice.

@Rico Hi!

Paulo Cereda

@egreg So far. :)

@Rico yello!

Rico

@PauloCereda hey! everything fine?

Paulo Cereda

@Rico sick, but fine. :) And you?

11

Q: Where did the Roman gods live?

The ancient Greek gods lived on the famous Mount Olympus, which is an actual mountain in Greece. The Romans borrowed quite a bit of mythology from the Greeks, so I at first assumed that the Roman gods lived somewhere similar, if not in the exact same place (though perhaps with the mountain renam...

What have the Roman gods ever done for us? :)

Rico

@PauloCereda same here, lot to do :(

does anyone have any experience with this thesis template? cleanthesis.der-ric.de

David Carlisle

11:18 AM

@Rico no:-)

Paulo Cereda

@Rico nope, never heard of it. It looks odd IMHO

Rico

@PauloCereda does it? I find it kinda pretty

David Carlisle

Thesis style I'm more used to ^^

Paulo Cereda

@Rico I don't like the layout, but I'm a wacky duck. :)

Rico

Paulo Cereda

11:30 AM

> The design of the Clean Thesis style is inspired by user guide documents from Apple Inc. (e.g. iMovie '08 or Keynote '09).

I stopped right here. :P

Rico

@DavidCarlisle isn't this your thesis style? :D

David Carlisle

@Rico no that would be @egreg, he's older than me.

@Rico My thesis really was done on an ibm golfball typewriter;-)

egreg

12:05 PM

@DavidCarlisle That's something I read for my thesis, but I used a different script for mine

David Carlisle

@daleif perhaps you just volunteered to support hieroglf.sty forever, although given the above perhaps @egreg should take it on.....

egreg

@PauloCereda This, for instance:

@DavidCarlisle This is in my lecture notes

David Carlisle

@egreg are you writing the markup for those by hand, how come the link goes back to th eoriginal site rather than to stack.imgur.com ?

egreg

@DavidCarlisle Just pasted the URL

David Carlisle

@egreg ah yes the auto box thing.

Paulo Cereda

12:11 PM

@egreg ooh

@egreg No duck symbol? What have the Egyptians ever done for us? :)

David Carlisle

@egreg British lion puts noose around Brazilian parrot?

egreg

@PauloCereda That's perhaps the best preserved temple from the Roman era.

Paulo Cereda

@egreg Impressive!

@DavidCarlisle LOL

egreg

@PauloCereda There's also this one in Assisi

Paulo Cereda

@egreg ooh!

@egreg: we will visit Assisi when I go visit you?

egreg

12:18 PM

@PauloCereda Not very near to my place. :) There's also the cathedral in Siracusa, which was a temple dedicated to Athena

@PauloCereda It survived easily several earthquakes, including the one that in 1693 devastated all Eastern Sicily

David Carlisle

@egreg probably coming from Brazil, anywhere in Europe is near you.

Paulo Cereda

@egreg ooh awesome!

@DavidCarlisle That's very true, :)

egreg

@DavidCarlisle @PauloCereda Padova-Assisi is 350 km (about 220 miles).

Paulo Cereda

@egreg hmmm

egreg

@DavidCarlisle About the same distance from Oxford to York

daleif

12:28 PM

@DavidCarlisle definitely not, I don't understand half of it.

Rico

Is there a (TeX)-Question @egreg does not know an answer to?

David Carlisle

@daleif that means you understand half, so are ideally qualified.

@Rico lots!

egreg

@Rico A few.

@Rico Still a secret agent based in Bielefeld?

Sean Allred

12:55 PM

If place a bounty on the following question, is there a better solution? The accepted answer just feels absurd.

23

Q: How to center a listing?

I'm trying to get some console output in my homework. I put it in a listings environment but I want it to be centered horizontally on the page. The only thing I get centered is the caption ;-/ \begin{minipage}{1\textwidth} \begin{center} \begin{lstlisting}[caption={Ausgabe des C-Programms},labe...

listings horizontal-alignment

This recent comment brought the above to my attention:

The caption would not be centered if I put it inside the listing, hence the enclosing figure defined the caption. I will read through the manual! Thanks for the pointer. — Christophe De Troyer 26 mins ago

David Carlisle

@SeanAllred you must be able to customise the formatting of listings captions somehow:-)

Sean Allred

@DavidCarlisle certainly :) but I'm not so sure about the verbatim environment itself, which I think the original question is asking (and what Chris is trying to get at)

David Carlisle

1:12 PM

@SeanAllred that must be customisable too, somewhere..

Sean Allred

@DavidCarlisle The only remotely promising option I see is boxpos, but the description would suggest this is not the desired key.

Merjit

Hi there — are there any xindy mavens in the room?

David Carlisle

@SeanAllred option? as in "documented interface"? don't be silly:-), I meant look at the code and add a box of a specified width somewhere in the middle:-)

Sean Allred

@DavidCarlisle Special kind of evil :) (I say that with the utmost respect and affection.)

Perhaps I can contact the lovely maintainer and suggest a patch.

I suppose I will look into it.

@DavidCarlisle thanks for the reminder that everything in this world is tweakable (even if you should try and avoid it in the general case) :)

egreg

@SeanAllred As far as I can see, listings boxes the listing when it's found in horizontal mode and that's why it centers the listing in the tabular. But the caption is always set the full width.

Sean Allred

1:28 PM

@egreg If I understand correctly, does that mean floating listings are found in vertical mode? (?) I'll have to take a look at the package code during lunch today (8:30am here)

Manuel

Hello. Without putting too much thought into it, if I were to use \unexpanded{\whatever} always rather than \noexpand\whatever, would there be any disadvantage? Any advantage?

egreg

@SeanAllred This?

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{showframe}
\usepackage{listings,caption}

\newsavebox{\listingtempbox}
\makeatletter
\lstnewenvironment{blstlisting}[1]
 {\def\clstcaption{#1}\setbox\listingtempbox=\hbox\bgroup}
 {\egroup
  \let\c@figure\c@lstlisting\let\figurename\lstlistingname
  \captionof{figure}{\clstcaption}\usebox{\listingtempbox}}
\makeatother

\begin{document}
\begin{center}
\begin{blstlisting}{Ausgabe des C-Programms\label{ggt_c_ausgabe}}
a  |  b  |  q  |  u  |  s  |  v  |  t
----------------------------------------

@Manuel Just more complicated

Sean Allred

@egreg I'm not sure which is more impressive: the comparative simplicity of this solution (which I certainly think you should add to the Q) or the fact that I actually understand exactly what's going on with it.

Manuel

\def\nexp#1{\unexpanded{#1}}\def\nexpo#1{\unexpanded\expandafter{#1}}, then it's not more complicated: \nexp\whatever. But are there any downsides? Benefits? At first sight I mean, not really thinking much.

egreg

@SeanAllred :)

Sean Allred

1:43 PM

@egreg Yes, I think that's exactly the goal :)

Rico

@egreg still living in the shadows. Working on a bunch of apps and my master thesis.

Sean Allred

1:58 PM

What did the subatomic duck say? "Quark."

3

Paulo Cereda

2:11 PM

@SeanAllred LOL

egreg

@SeanAllred On line, with a shining new key-value interface. :)

@SeanAllred Waiting for the Necromancer badge. :)

Paulo Cereda

 A man in a movie theater notices what looks like a duck sitting next to him. "Are you a duck?" asked the man, surprised. "Yes." "What are you doing at the movies?" The duck replied, "Well, I liked the book."

3

Sean Allred

@PauloCereda XD

@egreg Woo!

Paulo Cereda

@SeanAllred Woo!

Sean Allred

What do you call a duck with a thieving problem? A robber ducky.

@egreg What do you use to write your expl3 code? Do you have an editor support?

egreg

2:22 PM

@SeanAllred nano

Paulo Cereda

London bridge is falling down!

Sean Allred

@egreg naturally

@egreg If I award the bounty now, will it be removed from the featured tab? I just want to draw attention to your answer.

baxx

what's it called if I want to shrink a table to textwidth? Squidge a table? Drawing a google blank

\settablewidth = textwidth is what I'm getting at basically

Sean Allred

@baxx I would just say resize

barbara beeton

@baxx -- how about "narrow a table"?

baxx

2:31 PM

@SeanAllred makes sense. narrow a table is also good. thanks :)

Sean Allred

@baxx and you may be able to use \resizebox for the job There might even exist an environment for the job.

barbara beeton

@baxx -- but i do like "squidge".

Sean Allred

@barbarabeeton @baxx it's a fun word :)

baxx

@barbarabeeton probably not in the docs :(

David Carlisle

@baxx a crime

baxx

2:33 PM

@DavidCarlisle if you'd seen my TeX... squidging tables would be the least of my crimes

2

David Carlisle

@baxx every time I see someone apply \resizebox to a table I wish I'd never written the flippin command. Usually they use \resizebox{\textwidth}{ and add a space as well:(

@barbarabeeton did you like my tables? (email)

baxx

@DavidCarlisle you should have a drink with the guy who wrote the HTML blink thing

3

egreg

@SeanAllred Don't worry.

David Carlisle

@baxx but seriously I never understand the desire to do this to tables, you never see people justifying paragraphs of text by applying arbitrary scale factors, so why do it just because the text is arranged in columns?

Sean Allred

@egreg eh, it had already been done :) this isn't the first time i've seen the pattern in the accepted answer -- I very much want it to die off.

barbara beeton

2:37 PM

@DavidCarlisle -- yep. looking at them now. will have questions (by email).

Sean Allred

@DavidCarlisle some people are very attached to absurdly large tables

David Carlisle

@SeanAllred so why make them absurdly small with a font size you can't read?

baxx

@DavidCarlisle probably poor planning, not thinking about what ones doing enough

Sean Allred

I don't like advertising \resizebox this way, but most of my mentees (for lack of a better word) simply won't take 'don't do that' as an answer.

baxx

doing

think i rescued it

Sean Allred

2:38 PM

@baxx press your up arrow key

@DavidCarlisle in lieu of a table re-design and a landscape table (in that order), that's the best option

@DavidCarlisle Well, the best I'm aware of :)

David Carlisle

@SeanAllred sure, and if you are an automated process with thousands of tables a minute, it probably makes sense, but if you are taking a year to typeset a thesis with a couple of dozen tables, then less so:-)

Sean Allred

@DavidCarlisle certainly more care should be taken for such a labor of love :)

baxx

I could make a vertical table, but then it'd just be two columns wide and 7 down

Sean Allred

@baxx can you provide the table for us to look at? there might be a better way to present the information

Joseph Wright

@Manuel \unexpanded is equivalent to putting things into a toks, \noexpand makes them equal to \relax. You see the difference for example if used in typesetting. Note that \noexpand won't add a space after the <token> but \unexpanded will, which might be important (depending on the context).

baxx

2:42 PM

@SeanAllred yeah np

@SeanAllred it's vertical at the moment! ```

ah thought i could use markdown

\begin{table}
\centering
\begin{tabular}{c | c}
Layout 1 & 6 \\
Layout 2 & 2 \\
Layout 3 & 5 \\
Layout 4 & 1 \\
Layout 5 & 3 \\
Layout 6 & 1 \\
Layout 7 & 0 \\
Total & 18 \\
 \\
\end{tabular}
\caption{Results}
\label{tbl:results}
\end{table}

Sean Allred

@baxx a limited set of markdown.

David Carlisle

@baxx so why does it need scaling?

Sean Allred

@baxx what information is actually being presented here? what's the purpose of the table?

baxx

@SeanAllred no worries, it's displayed OK anyway, looks better here than the project @DavidCarlisle if I make it horizontal it bleeds over the page width

oh damn - i also had \def\arraystretch{2.0} before it as well

David Carlisle

@baxx better to use \small

Sean Allred

2:46 PM

@baxx Makes more sense vertically anyways -- it looks like you're summing it

and consider nixing the vertical rule and adding a couple niceties from booktabs

David Carlisle

@SeanAllred we're highly trained mathematicians: we can add up sideways

baxx

@SeanAllred its some silly survey i had to do

Sean Allred

@DavidCarlisle I'm a highly trained mathematician and I can't add

baxx

i'm not even high

David Carlisle

@SeanAllred when I was a working mathematician, i mostly worked in GF_2 so adding's not so hard

Sean Allred

2:48 PM

@DavidCarlisle XD nice :)

baxx

3:02 PM

@SeanAllred

Seems to be a bit better now, thanks all :)

\def\arraystretch{1.5}
\begin{table}
\centering
%\begin{tabular}{@{} c c@{}}
\begin{tabular}{ c c }
Layout & Score \\
\hline
One & 6 \\
Two & 2 \\
Three & 5 \\
Four & 1 \\
Five & 3 \\
Six & 1 \\
Seven & 0 \\
\hline
Total & 18 \\
\\
\end{tabular}
\caption{Results}
\label{tbl:results}
\end{table}

Sean Allred

@baxx :) consider using \midrule from booktabs Oh! and I wouldn't have those two trailing `\` pieces :)

baxx

@SeanAllred instead of... \hline?

Sean Allred

@baxx yes

baxx

@SeanAllred what's up with the `\`, i thought that they were needed for the next line?

@SeanAllred ah yeah i see! whoops

Sean Allred

@baxx Well they are, but you don't need to start a new row at the end of the table :)

baxx

3:04 PM

yep :)

i missed those

egreg

@baxx Put \renewcommand{\arraystretch}{1.5} after \begin{table}, so it will affect only that table.

Sean Allred

@baxx Why not represent the data as a bar graph though?

baxx

@SeanAllred I'm trying to protect you as much as possible from the true stupidity of this assignment... theres a bar graph as well. With exactly the same information

Sean Allred

:|

Paulo Cereda

@baxx As long as it's not a pie chart, you are safe. :)

baxx

3:08 PM

@SeanAllred pretty much! I used matplotlib... didn't actually think of using LaTeX for the bar chart though

Sean Allred

@baxx the way you present the data is completely prescribed?

baxx

@SeanAllred i have to tick certain boxes, I'm ticking the boxes basically. the class is daft, the teachers daft. and now i want pie

Sean Allred

@baxx for your own education (and maybe to present a 'humble alternative' to your prof):

5

Q: How to put the values of each bar in a pgfplots bar chart inside the bar itself?

I have this: \begin{tikzpicture} \begin{axis}[ ybar = 0.6, width=1.2\textwidth, height=0.4\textheight, enlarge x limits = 0.2, bar width=16pt, title={Instance els19 with 1\% max error}, legend style={at={(0.5,-0.15)}, anchor=north,legend columns=0}, ylabel={Time in milisseconds}, symbolic x coor...

tikz-pgf pgfplots diagrams

16

Q: How to minimize the ink-to-data ratio for pgfplots

Tufte advocates to "minimize the ink-to-data ratio" for charts. I am trying to style a multi data series bar chart, that can have a grid and axes as shown below (chart at the left is from the Economist and on the right my attempt). Here is the code: \documentclass[justified]{tufte-book} \us...

pgfplots charts

baxx

@SeanAllred Only thing shes a professor of is printing handouts :)

Sean Allred

@baxx ^^^

baxx

3:12 PM

@SeanAllred its a shame when college gets in the way of learning :(

@SeanAllred on a positive note I found a thing to make the LaTeX bigger in AucTeX, PM'd you on Reddit :)

Paulo Cereda

@SeanAllred If I may:

:P

Sean Allred

@PauloCereda by all means :) I can't spend too much time looking for good gifs -- I've got work I should be doing

baxx

@PauloCereda youtube.com/watch?v=Ja06DJrFe5E

just completing the chain there...

Sean Allred

@baxx Ah yes, preview-scale :) I saw that; sorry i haven't gotten around to responding

Paulo Cereda

@SeanAllred <3

@baxx Ni!

Sean Allred

3:16 PM

Ekke ekke ekke pitang ZOOM boingoingoing...

baxx

@SeanAllred no worries, what's the backtick in auctex? Seems to be shortcut key commands or something

Sean Allred

@baxx if memory serves, it turns into a keymap for maths symbols

@baxx type ``` C-h``

@baxx er, backtick-C-h

Or `C-h k ``

baxx

@SeanAllred ah think things might a bit different, I've got loads of evil mode things all over the place

Sean Allred

@baxx ah, yes. the devilspawn.

baxx

@SeanAllred I'm using spacemacs, have you seen it?

Sean Allred

3:22 PM

@baxx i've seen it, but i've never used it

baxx

@SeanAllred it's pretty nice tbh... giving it a month to replace Vim and Tmux

Sean Allred

@baxx i started with vanilla emacs and worked my way up. the analog for spacemacs in the emacs world is prelude, i think.

@baxx how're you liking it so far?

@baxx anything you seem to be missing from your old life?

baxx

@SeanAllred yeah it's a "starter kit" thing... So far - I know what you mean about project management a bit more now, there are some nice things...

@SeanAllred I still go into Tmux to run some scripts and stuff, and need to get a better flow with YaSnippet

and tmux to create files and things like that

Sean Allred

@baxx Honestly don't know what use tmux has for you anymore -- term-mode should be almost exactly the same

and once you get used to using it, eshell is a God-send

baxx

@SeanAllred haven't used term mode :)

@SeanAllred python with it is pretty cool though I have to say

Sean Allred

3:26 PM

@baxx are you using anaconda mode with company?

i hear that's the latest and greatest, but i don't get to do much python dev :)

baxx

@SeanAllred no - my python setup is probably a bit shakey as I only found out sudo pip was daft a month back or so

@SeanAllred someone told me to use company yesterday actually, If I hear it again I'll have to have a look

Sean Allred

@baxx hmm.

@baxx oh, then 'company'. there, you heard it again :)

baxx

@SeanAllred needs to be from three different sources :P

dired is cool as well on emacs

Sean Allred

@baxx oh yeah -- and so is wdired :) do C-x C-q in dired mode (this normally toggles read-only for files). change some file names, then do C-x C-s.

really helpful when doing a lot of refactoring

have you checked out neotree? it's another interesting file browser

Paulo Cereda

:set evil=1

baxx

3:30 PM

@SeanAllred yeah i have that - neo comment as well is cool!

Sean Allred

@baxx neo comment? sounds interesting -- what is it? :) see also

6

Q: How can I visualize VCS status in dired?

I'm particularly concerned with git, but I imagine this is a good place to use vc. I want to emulate Atom's git integration with its file explorer: How can I get something like this in dired? I understand there are other tools for simulating a proper tree structure, but the normal i/RET work...

dired git

I gave neotree VCS sensitivity in #93

baxx

@SeanAllred <leader> f t is NeoTree for me

Sean Allred

@baxx I have it simply bound to <apps>

baxx

@SeanAllred neo comment just comments out a selection of text in the style of the current Emacs Mode

Sean Allred

@baxx ... M-;?

baxx

3:33 PM

So V <Leader> ; will comment a line

Sean Allred

M-; runs the command comment-dwim, which is an interactive compiled
Lisp function in `newcomment.el'.

It is bound to M-;.

(comment-dwim ARG)

Call the comment command you want (Do What I Mean).
If the region is active and `transient-mark-mode' is on, call
`comment-region' (unless it only consists of comments, in which
case it calls `uncomment-region').
Else, if the current line is empty, call `comment-insert-comment-function'
if it is defined, otherwise insert a comment and indent it.
Else if a prefix ARG is specified, call `comment-kill'.

baxx

M-; is handy for end of line comments thanks :)

Sean Allred

@baxx if you make a selection (i.e. activate the region), it will comment the region

baxx

@SeanAllred maybe I have read new as Neo ha ha. I've been making my notes pretty late :P

sounded cool though

haven't done any elisp yet

Sean Allred

@baxx the following is an ok function for a real use case: github.com/vermiculus/dotfiles/blob/master/.emacs.d/…

baxx

3:38 PM

@SeanAllred cheers, i've been finding a lot of manuals and stuff for it but not so much basic emacs configuration stuff... I'm probably expecting things to be more vimmy than they are though

Sean Allred

@baxx basic emacs configuration stuff generally takes the form of setq. you might also be interested in use-package (on MELPA)

Alenanno

@DavidCarlisle Do you happen to know why hhline is cutting a vertical line in two? ¬_¬

Sean Allred

@Alenanno I've seen that happen, too; there is a Q somewhere about it

14

Q: Vertical table lines are discontinuous with booktabs

I created a table in LaTeX, but there are some problems with the borders. The borders remain open whereas I want them closed. Also, in the last row, I want the vertical line gone, ie I want just one column in the last row. Can someone please fix it? Here are my code and my table: \documentclass{...

tables rules booktabs

@Alenanno ^^^

baxx

@SeanAllred cool... I think that by the time a month is up I'll hopefully have the same functionality that i had with tmux / vim.... though I can't seem to get tmux tabs in emacs i don't think, there might be a different way of working though

Sean Allred

@baxx i've heard about a package called tabbar, but i've never used it. it may be out-of-date / obsolete considering how long ago i heard about it!

baxx

3:42 PM

@SeanAllred yeah, i have something called eyebrowse that's quite nice

github.com/syl20bnr/spacemacs/tree/develop/contrib/…

haven't got a full work flow with it yet, and it doesn't have named window spaces / list either :( otherwise it's pretty decent

Sean Allred

@baxx interdasting -- i think tabbar is different though. i.e. solves a different problem

baxx

@SeanAllred probably , i've not used it enough tbh... .having vim keys in the menus like dired is cool though!

Sean Allred

@baxx i generally pop around a dired buffer with isearch :)

David Carlisle

@Alenanno with booktabs?

baxx

@SeanAllred only used iedit, that's quite nice... though not really had much use for it

Sean Allred

3:47 PM

@baxx sounds a lot like multiple-cursors

David Carlisle

@Alenanno normally (without booktabs) hhline will cut a vertical line or not sepending on the argument ==, or =|=

baxx

@SeanAllred pretty much, without the cursors

Sean Allred

@baxx i imagine it behaves like # does in vim?

baxx

@SeanAllred similar to that, but easier to edit them all

in vim I'd just do :s:this:that:

Sean Allred

@baxx gnu emacs analog would be replace-string (which you can of course bind to any key you like)

baxx

3:50 PM

i never really used # though, it just seemed to highlight things

Sean Allred

@baxx i have to imagine there was a plugin to allow editing with #

@baxx seemed like a good tool for navigation

baxx

@SeanAllred I'm sure someone applied themselves to it. Yeah it is handy, tbh i just forgot about it i think

@SeanAllred spacemacs has a guide key as well, where if you press a command and wait it'll pop up with all the possible options. pretty nice

Sean Allred

@baxx like this? github.com/QBobWatson/popup-keyshttps://github.com/QBobWatson/…

@baxx i always thought that would be incredibly useful for learning :)

baxx

@SeanAllred yeah seems to be the same kinda thing! It's good, esp as all buffer items are under leader b, all project commands under leader p etc

Sean Allred

@baxx the wonders of text-oriented user interface design :)

baxx

3:56 PM

@SeanAllred it's pretty ace... I was wondering about whether anyone had done research into whether or not the time investment actually paid off in productivity the other day

@SeanAllred neoVim also looks really interesting

Sean Allred

@baxx i'm sure, but I haven't the foggiest of where to look for that kind of information

baxx

@SeanAllred I still run my compilation script from tmux (for latex) and things like that, there are a few things I need to try and iron out yet

Sean Allred

@baxx gonna have to remind myself to read this through when i get home: ojs.academypublisher.com/index.php/jsw/article/view/…

@baxx a voice whispers from the ether: use arara

baxx

@SeanAllred nice find :)

@SeanAllred ah yeah, think you've only mentioned that to me 6 times. I'll have to google it, i think triggering the script I have from emacs would be a nice start though :)

Sean Allred

M-x shell-command. Default binding is M-!.

Or even M-x compile.

@PauloCereda Any gauge on when the new version [of arara] will be ready for general use?

Paulo Cereda

4:03 PM

@SeanAllred The code itself is ready (apart from a couple of localizations). What's delaying me is the manual. :(

Sean Allred

@PauloCereda Is there any way I can help with that? I'm a pretty decent writer, but I understand if you want to avoid even subtle changes in voicing :)

There arara manual really is top-notch

Paulo Cereda

@SeanAllred Thank you. :) I need to organize myself and go on a writing spree, that's the only way I can make it work. :) I'll try this weekend and I'll surely poke you. :)

Sean Allred

@PauloCereda Please do :) I'd love to give back any way I can.

Paulo Cereda

@SeanAllred <3

David Carlisle

@SeanAllred the last version was delayed for a year with the same excuse:-)

Sean Allred

4:08 PM

@DavidCarlisle Seems to be a trend with TeX tech *cough*LaTeX3*cough*

But we're all busy :)

David Carlisle

Jul 8 '12 at 15:56, by Paulo Cereda

@AlanMunn Ah I see. :) I'll try to rephrase that section. It' very difficult to write a manual, I never thought it would be that hard. :) And I also have to rewrite some parts - thanks to your suggestions. :) The English language sometimes slaps me in the face. :)

@SeanAllred I know not what you mean

Sean Allred

@DavidCarlisle The general idea of being behind any ideal 'schedule' :)

David Carlisle

@egreg editing my answers....

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle How do you find these messages so fast? :)

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda search for "write manual" by @PauloCereda :-)

Paulo Cereda

4:13 PM

@DavidCarlisle Oh my

Alenanno

@DavidCarlisle So if I remove booktabs, it'll be all good?

David Carlisle

@Alenanno I expect so, you didn't show what your markup is, but the main point of booktabs is to implement features where making vertical rules unusable is not considered a disadvantage. So using vertical rules and booktabs together is asking for pain..

Alenanno

You used the right word.

egreg

@DavidCarlisle Missing backquotes

David Carlisle

@egreg it was the shock of seeing that filename.

egreg

4:24 PM

@DavidCarlisle :)

Sean Allred

@DavidCarlisle I'm also a tiny bit horrified

David Carlisle

@SeanAllred If it's not people using \resizebox to distort tables, it's:

0

A: Make all longtables in a document full page width

\documentclass{article} \usepackage{longtable,etoolbox} \begin{document} Nice \begin{longtable}{cc} \textbf{heading a}&\textbf{heading b}\\ 1&2\\3&4\\5&6\\1&2\\3&4\\5&6 \end{longtable} Horrible {\setlength\LTleft{0pt}\setlength\LTright{0pt} \begin{longtable}{@{\extracolsep{\fill}}cc@{}} \te...

egreg

@DavidCarlisle Wouldn't the following help, along with grffile?

\begingroup\catcode`\%=12
\def\x{\graphicspath{{Q:/2014 - 2015/Change (%)/}}}
\expandafter\endgroup\x

David Carlisle

@egreg it would allow you to play with \expandafter\endgroup but otherwise not much:-) the inclusion is usually in a figure or some such which has not got a comment so why not simply \catcode\%=12` ?

Alenanno

Do you guys think this is a duplicate of the one I linked?

0

Q: cross reference?

I can reference a figure (or table) from text using \label(fig:example) between \begin{figure} and \end{figure}, and using \ref(fig:example) within my text. However, my figures are at the end of my document (a long document), and after I look at any of the figures, I would like to go back to the...

hyperref cross-referencing

egreg

4:40 PM

@Alenanno It's impossible to go back, in general. One just uses the PDF viewer's feature.

Sean Allred

@DavidCarlisle "Automatically horrible" :)

@egreg I'm apparently having a good day for TeX epiphanies: when you say \expandafter\endgroup\x, are you actually ending the group for the catcode change but allowing \graphicspath to affect the outer group?

But \x keeps its definition because \expandafter skipped the \endgroup and expanded \x

But as I understand it, how does \expandafter\endgroup\x differ from \x\endgroup insofar as TeX sees the tokens?

egreg

5:10 PM

@SeanAllred When \x is expanded, the category code of % is still 12, but that's not the main point, because it has already been absorbed by \def\x; with this trick we cancel the definition of \x and the catcode setting. It's because \graphicspath doesn't act globally, as far as I know.

@SeanAllred So \x\endgroup would also nullify the setting to \graphicspath.

Sean Allred

5:22 PM

@egreg So \x is expanded once to the \graphicspath change (with the correct catcode for %) and then the group ends?

And after the group ends, TeX continues and sees \graphicspath (with the correct catcode) and changes it then?

I think I need to revise my mental picture of how TeX deals with the input stream :)

Flashback to tex.stackexchange.com/q/197390/17423 :)

egreg

@SeanAllred Yes, that's what happens.

@SeanAllred This is a bit different

@SeanAllred With \lowercase the token list is reinserted in the input stream after the changes to the character tokens.

egreg

5:42 PM

@DavidCarlisle And the green tick goes to…

David Carlisle

5:58 PM

@egreg somebody undeserving by the sound of it. Which question?

Canageek

@baxx @DavidCarlisle I saw a legit use of that once. Ars Technica's old error page had C:_ on it, with a blinking underscore.

David Carlisle

@egreg oh the % one.

egreg

@DavidCarlisle :)

David Carlisle

6:43 PM

@JosephWright why don't we have [hv]rules in expl3? :-)

Paulo Cereda

2

Q: Left handed writing

Is there a way in LaTeX, which would make some text look like it has been written by a left hander. In italic fonts, is there a distinction between left handed and right handed writing(you can visualize what i am trying to say)?

fonts italic italic-correction

I'm a leftie. What have I been doing wrong?

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda you should be writing in Arabic

Sean Allred

@PauloCereda year-old ping vvv

@PauloCereda To the reception please — percusse Nov 28 '14 at 11:42

Have any thoughts / know of any resources?

Paulo Cereda

@SeanAllred Let's write one? :)

Sean Allred

@PauloCereda :D github.com/vermiculus/code-prettify

Paulo Cereda

6:54 PM

@SeanAllred ooh

Sean Allred

@PauloCereda I already made a fork for the language (to merge back into master), but if you wanted to make your own fork that's ok, too :)

I'm going to start tonight by moving my regular expressions over to standard PCRE stuff (whatever javascript recognizes) and commit that as an entirely separate language, but I have a feeling #370 is an important question to answer before it gets merged.

I've also emailed the maintainer of the project for his thoughts; hopefully he'll get back to me within the week.

If no consensus can be reached, I don't think it would be horrible to submit it as an entirely new language and try to merge for now :)

Paul Gessler

@PauloCereda oooooh me too! (And so is @PaulMcCartney!)

Paulo Cereda

@SeanAllred I will take a closer look. :)

@PaulGessler Yay!

Sean Allred

@PauloCereda whenever you have time :) I don't think is going to be a particularly quick process at any rate :)

Joseph Wright

8:05 PM

@DavidCarlisle Typesetting area: still not tackled and probably requiring input from you/Frank more than me/Bruno/Will

David Carlisle

8:19 PM

@JosephWright oy stop passing the blame:-)

Jello_Raptor

8:34 PM

Hello all, what's the etiquette on really shitty workarounds? I asked a question, got no answer, and developed what is one of the most painful looking workarounds I've ever done. I don't want to accept it as an answer, but I do want to post it for others who might have the same issue.

Christian Hupfer

@Jello_Raptor: I don't know what's the etiquette on suboptimal workarounds but there's somehow an etiquette on language ;-)

David Carlisle

@Jello_Raptor post as an answer and don't accept, then perhaps leave a comment to say better answers would still be welcome.. or perhaps put on a bounty for "not received enough attention" or whatever, but that would cost you50 rep

egreg

@JosephWright Finding a good syntax for \vrule is tough. Maybe with two versions: one parameterless, accepting any number of following specifications of width, height and depth; the other with three arguments ending with \scan_stop:

\cs_new_eq:NN \rule_vertical: \tex_vrule:D
\cs_new_eq:NN \rule_horizontal: \tex_hrule:D

\cs_new:Nn \rule_wd:n { width  \dim_eval:n { #1 } }
\cs_new:Nn \rule_ht:n { height \dim_eval:n { #1 } }
\cs_new:Nn \rule_dp:n { depth  \dim_eval:n { #1 } }

\cs_new:Nn \rule_vertical:nnn
 {
  \rule_vertical:
  \tl_if_blank:nF { #1 } { \rule_wd:n { #1 } }
  \tl_if_blank:nF { #2 } { \rule_ht:n { #2 } }
  \tl_if_blank:nF { #3 } { \rule_dp:n { #3 } }
  \scan_stop:
 }
\cs_new:Nn \rule_horizontal:nnn
 {
  \rule_vertical:

Jello_Raptor

@christian @david carlise : That seems reasonable. I'll go ahead and do that, thanks.

Paulo Cereda

2

My fortune cookie a couple of minutes ago. ^^

Christian Hupfer

8:44 PM

@PauloCereda: A naughty word, a naughty word: Word :-P

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer LOL

@ChristianHupfer: How's your gameplay going?

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda: I had not much time actually. I was at school the whole day since 9:30 until 21 o'clock, and there's no LAN party (does this word exist at all?) to play Skyrim at school, during Math lessons ;-)

barbara beeton

@PauloCereda -- my favorite fortune cookie fortune was more polite: "it's after 5 p.m. and i've run out of pithy things to say."

Paulo Cereda

@barbarabeeton oooh :)

Johannes_B

9:10 PM

@PauloCereda :-D

Manuel

10:28 PM

@egreg There's also rule-D package, which offers the \rule:nnn and \rule:nn versions (I think it's nice to have the :nn and :nnn versions.

@JosephWright Okey, that's a nice point.

egreg

@Manuel This is an implementation of \rule.

Manuel

@egreg What do you mean? The one I pointed is also an implementation. Plus, I would name \rule_vertical:w rather than \rule_vertical:.

DanielSank

Anyone know how to use \begin{array} inside of the amsmath align environment? The line breaks and &'s conflict.

David Carlisle

@DanielSank put {} around the array environment (and complain to @barbarabeeton:)

Manuel

Also, another question that hit me lately: Is the spacing around \mathop “perfect”? I've seen two things that I don't fully understand: first, when there's a unary operator before, the thin space is still added ( $- \sin x$ ); and second, when a big operator is around \sum, \int, etc. should it really add thin spaces in the same way as \sin & Co.? I mean (\int f adds a thin space while \int(f) doesn't, since it's a \mathopen, I don't know, I think it shouldn't work the same way).

David Carlisle

10:35 PM

@Manuel he means that they are analogues of the latex \rule command, not of \vrule and \hrule

@Manuel no that's why \, and \! exist:-)

Manuel

@DavidCarlisle Okey, I'm not that master yet, I don't know exactly what are the differences :)

@DavidCarlisle But that's a lot of \, or \!. What exactly are you referring to? I mean from all I said.

David Carlisle

@Manuel mostly like all latex box commands they start \leavemode cf difference between \hbox and \mbox

@Manuel I mean no automatic system is perfect and you sometimes have to adjust the space

Manuel

@DavidCarlisle Between the unary minus and the \sin, I was in doubt of why he would add that thin space (which I don't understand). Between the \int etc. I think that should be another different atom, but may be in those times, adding another atom was “much”? I hope I someday manage to use LuaTeX and be able to at least play with those things.

egreg

@Manuel \vrule and \hrule can be used without any specification.

Manuel

@egreg I had no idea :( but :w looks better to me, even if the “weird argument” is empty.

egreg

10:45 PM

@Manuel That's the problem: the specifications are not really arguments. But I'll gladly let the team decide.

@Manuel \vrule starts horizontal mode; if not followed by specifications, the width is 0.4pt, the height and depth are adjusted to be the same as the horizontal box the \vrule happens to finally fall. Similarly for \hrule: it ends horizontal mode and without specifications produces a rule with zero depth, 0.4pt height and width adjusted to be the same as the vertical box it eventually belongs in.

@Manuel However, after \leaders you should use \vrule in vertical mode and \hrule in horizontal mode.

@Manuel Try x\leaders\vrule\hskip1cm y and you'll see. ;-)

\hrule height 0pt % avoid glue is removed
\leaders\hrule\vskip 1cm

\bigskip

x\leaders\vrule\hskip1cm y
\bye

Canageek

@JosephWright You know about htis stuff: Why does CCDC ask what my name and insitution are whenever I want to download a file? o.0

Transcript for

$TeX - LaTeX$ TeX, LaTeX and Friends