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5:04 PM
Inspired by that question...
> A: I saw a love movie last night.
B: (?)I saw a more love movie last night!
Hello @Shog9!
@MARamezani the hell?
@Shog9 Hullo Shog!
I've seen your name so many times in posts @MARamezani links to.
@Shog9 This is nothing. It's humor.
5:06 PM
@JimReynolds Are you offended?
In a good way, I mean. :-)
been getting complaints about this room
Not sure everyone gets the humor
@Shog9 Aaah.
That's for,
I see. Please check the log.
5:06 PM
some fight that happened some while ago. I was beaten up.
I'm reading
eaten up?
@Shog9 @snailboat threw things in trash.
@Man_From_India Beaten up.
mods can see them.
Just look at my left eye.
@Shog9 BTW, the fight started with nothing named "humor".
5:08 PM
I think it's the best to let him read the log quietly.
(No interruption, I mean.)
@Shog9 Dam told Arrow to "calm down".
i thought the logs are in thrash now :-)
Arrowfar, I mean.
Then Arrow said: "I'm perfectly calm."
"You calm down"
And then it turned into a hell.
I suddenly saw Arrowfar telling Damkerng that Dam discredited him always, and that he's disgusted.
While no one else in the room had any idea about what was going on and more exactly, what Arrowfar meant.
Hmm, @Shog did you find the log in the trash?
5:13 PM
Aaah, then, we leave it to you to sort things out. A proverb in Persian says not to meddle with the wise.
meh. I'm not seeing much here.
You're being a clown, arrow is being grumpy, @DamkerngT. isn't kicking you both when he should've
@Shog9 We have some kind of a dangerous humor, but it's between me and @JimReynolds.
That's probably my fault.
Like the example you saw and went all the hell?
@DamkerngT. you're a room owner. As such, this should be your best friend:
user image
5:17 PM
When folks aren't communicating, kick 'em out & let 'em quiet down before resuming.
That option has never crossed my mind!
keeps the peace without being as irritating as flags.
Just don't over-use it, or the mods get flagged and then all hell breaks loose
I mean, I knew that we have it, but I've never thought we'll need.
it's really handy
5:18 PM
Thanks for the advice.
@Shog9 Well, no one knew what Arrow would do if he was muted.
Once you got, I donno, a page of nonsense, it's a pretty good time to start kicking
kick everyone. Then heave a sigh of relief and enjoy your minute of peace
@DamkerngT. I'd be starring that if I were you.
Is one room owner enough to kick-mute?
5:19 PM
@Shog9 Sobbing Even me? Looks cute
I see. Thanks.
@DamkerngT. you're the local mod, essentially - entrusted with keeping things copacetic
I'm not a mod! (Just a room owner)
@Shog9 Clashes hardly happen here.
That could be why Dam didn't remember what to do.
@DamkerngT. room-mod then
@MARamezani oh well. He'll just have to practice on someone
5:21 PM
@Shog9 BTW I wasn't being a clown during the fight.
It was disgusting though.
in Trashcan, 2 days ago, by MARamezani
that's a little bit clownish
That wasn't during the fight.
I could be wrong though.
a little bit prior to
but yeah, I think arrow wasn't in such a lighthearted mood even then
Yes, I agree that I'm a clown (and a bad one) most of the time.
@Shog9 Dunno. He got offended real fast.
He was fighting with people who had no idea what was going on.
Yeah, I don't have a real good explanation there. Sometimes, levity can come off as mocking to folks who aren't in the mood for it.
5:25 PM
I guess it could be part of the reasons.
@Shog9 Well, me and arrow did have some kinda a shave a while ago.
You gotta learn to pick up on that. Sometimes, folks just have a chip on their shoulder, and any attempt to lighten the mood knocks it off.
I was trying to be phuunny and he took everything seriously.
Then I said sorry.
But in the grand fight, IMHO, He started it!
you might mean to be cheerful, but the other person takes it as a dismissal of whatever their concerns are
@Shog9 I understand. Yes.
5:26 PM
In any case, doesn't matter who started it; point is, @DamkerngT. could've kicked you both & robbed himself of the opportunity.
That, is the real tragedy here.
I asked for people to be silent for some minutes. Wasn't aware of this feature.
Hi shog. I complained. Yes.
'morning @arrowfar
I see with my heart how useful it is.
@Shog9 Hello :)
5:27 PM
I complained to Kit.
Yes, I've reviewed the situation on behalf of several moderators
I don't wish there to be discord here; we're all here to learn.
Grabs popcorn Oh wait, I mute myself. Don't wanna be troublesome.
Hello Capt!
I see. Thanks. But giving the control to Damkereng here isn't such a good idea. He constantly argues discredits every single thing I say here. So what can I do except to get a bit grumpy? I try my best to be friendly with everyone here @Shog9
Hullo soldier! It's better to see how Shog and Arrow's conversation is going. It's serious.
@arrowfar It's better to provide examples.
5:30 PM
I am not grumpy in other rooms. You can call Kit etc. if you like.
Then we, just like mature people, can get this misunderstanding solved.
Although I appreciate all that you are doing.
@arrowfar We didn't say you were grumpy here either.
@arrowfar Damkereng already has control. He is the owner of this room, and the most regular participant. He should know the dynamics of the room and be able to detect when things have gone from conversational to combative.
Just because you disagree on some things doesn't mean he must behave unfairly when there is conflict; disagreement is normal, and good, as long as it is discussed constructively.
Where is @Damkerng himself, BTW? It's better to have him here now.
5:32 PM
I'm still here.
@Shog9 Yeah, I agree. I like him too. But I don't like the bias here. He and MA were talking about banning me here the other day. So what can I do in such a situation? That's why I involved you guys. I want an unbiased person here. Damk is not a very good idea. Maybe Andrew.
@arrowfar That. Was. Not. Serious.
And it was only a single message.
@MARamezani Perhaps we can ask Shog9 to show the messages.
About the part the arrowfar thought we were talking about banning.
@arrowfar Me and Dam could have flagged you consecutively to put you in auto-ban, I guess. Shog knows better. But we didn't.
You weren't in the mood.
@arrowfar if you don't feel the situation in the room is being handled fairly, then kick it upstairs:
5:35 PM
And he may be able to see that we treated him differently than he thinks we did.
@Shog9 Thanks I'll do that.
If it's worth anything, I remember I tried to defend arrow from banning.
@DamkerngT. EXACTLY.
@DamkerngT. No sir you constantly pick on me here.
And even with this invention, I still don't want to see him banned.
5:37 PM
BTW, I wasn't asking for him to get banned too. Only after when he really turned my mouth sour.
@MARamezani I knew you didn't really mean it.
@arrowfar How is this equal to banning? And also, you should really provide examples.
this is all in the past. Let it go, learn from it, be better in the future.
nods in agreement
I agree.
5:39 PM
Oh wait.
All sorted then?
I see things are sorted out. Thanks @Shog!
@Lamart Hope so.
By the way, I'd like to resign from my room owner's right.
@DamkerngT. I disagree.
I see you are a moderator @Shog9. Do you know about the 20 rep chat condition? It is the combined SE rep right?
5:40 PM
You're almost around way more than anyone else.
It's rather clear that I cannot contain the situation by myself.
Even with the kick-mute option, I'm not sure if I can contain it, if it happens again.
@DamkerngT. You can.
You're armed the next time such thing happens.
Which I hope is never.
@Lamart here, yes
Yakh! I'm being too serious.
reputation you've earned on any site counts toward it.
5:43 PM
@Shog9 He was asking about a flaw, which in my opinion could be problematic.
@DamkerngT. try kicking a few people now, just to get the hang of it. Practice, like the guy who does card tricks.
I don't think it's serious though.
@MARamezani ?
Okay. Can I suggest something? @Shog9
@Lamart try it & see
5:44 PM
@Shog9 He made 20 accounts.
And then he could chat.
Q: There is a need to make the 20 rep restriction in Chat more strict

LamartInspired from Criteria for chatting and its comments, I think there is a need to review this restriction. I joined 20 other sites (out of the many) and gained the required rep to chat in any of the chatrooms. I gained 20 rep by getting the default 1 rep in 20 different SE sites. This can be...

huh. Thought we fixed that.
@Shog9 Really?
@Lamart were you actually able to post in any chat room?
you can join a chat room with no rep. Heck, you can read the transcript without logging in at all.
5:45 PM
@Shog9 Not in meta.SE, because that needs 25. But he could chat in chemistry's.
The privilege concerns being able to post.
-13 means I am wrong. James out there says I couldn't but I can :)
@Shog9 Can someone star messages from outside the room?
@Lamart link to the profile you used please
oh, it's this one?
Yes @Shog9
5:47 PM
Can mods check who starred which message? (I'm guessing that they can't)
@Lamart Very clever bot!
@DamkerngT. Think not. They can't see who voted.
I made 20 1 rep accounts and I can chat here atleast. But guys out there hate this idea so gave me downvotes and now I am happy.
Though they can see who voted weirdly.
@Shog9 Two people answered my question and both of them say I can't chat but....
hmm. I'll look into this; thanks
5:50 PM
@Lamart ...but SE is JUST hacked. =)
People don't like that Capt
@Lamart People don't like many things. Like ice cream. But is ice cream bad just because they have cold?
The answer: Don't care.
I'm going to do a bit of my chores. Anyway, please consider my request.
@DamkerngT. Please don't consider his request Shog.
@DamkerngT. TTYL!
Do I get free 20 rep if this is corrected? Since I won't be able to chat if it does. :)
5:54 PM
@Lamart Hehe. I think you need to post a good Q or A. And fast.
Before Shog finds out about your evil master plan! BWAHAHAHHHA!
6:06 PM
Should I copy paste all this over there? People might beleive a moderator @MARamezani
@Lamart Lamart include a link to a message Shog posted.
This one is good @Lam
I'm back.
I wasn't gone.
@Shog9 I can see that you're an owner of many rooms, but which room is the best one to find you in case we need to contact you.
@MARamezani :-)
@DamkerngT. I think you can try Tavern On The Meta.
6:18 PM
@MARamezani I'd had this in mind for a couple of days (the first day after that incident, I think). I was really thinking about stepping aside, and moving my English usage analysis to a new room (still anyone is free to join).
@DamkerngT. That's not a good idea. Especially after you learned how to mute me.
@DamkerngT. Also, in Tavern On The Meta, I'm pretty sure there are other SE Dev mods you can contact.
@MARamezani It's just part of my way of life. Not that I will always avoid conflicts (it'll be different if it's about my home), but perhaps it's probably better for the sake of the community.
@DamkerngT. How on Earth would losing you be beneficial to anyone?!
In that it will relieve the conflict.
Hehe! Watch this:
Jesus Christ. That sentence was unexpectedly horrible! — Mark 1 hour ago
6:21 PM
And you don't really lose me, I will be in another room, right?
@DamkerngT. I will use the you in here.
Look. The problem isn't you. I'm not saying that @arrowfar's the problem. I'm saying that he wasn't in the mood the other day. You did nothing wrong.
Well, to be honest, you forgot to do something right. You should've muted @arrowfar and me, and then should've stopped talking.
Then there wouldn't have been any of this mess.
@MARamezani About that, if you're talking about way earlier this month (or probably late last month, I can't remember the exact date), I wasn't at my computer until it was too late. And I was about to force (tell) you to apologize, but you surprised me by apologize him before I did anything, and that to me showed that you're quite mature in your own way.
Sorry that I was a bit honest (and serious, Argh) about this.
@DamkerngT. Nah. I'm talking about the fight.
I see.
@DamkerngT. Whaddya know. I can be overly mature when Jimbie's not around.
6:27 PM
@DamkerngT. as MAR said, The Tavern is good - I'm nearly always there, as are many other helpful people.
I am new but I think you should stay @DamkerngT.
@Shog9 Thanks!
@Lamart Um... thank you, too!
@DamkerngT. Now I say this for the final time: People can be misunderstood. People can be in a bad mood. People can be feeling like fighting. People can falsely believe they're teased. That doesn't mean leaving someone like that makes anything better. I don't wanna attack @arrowfar, but it's really possible that backing down because of a misunderstanding would make that people realize how things are. It could makes things worse.
But I think the matter is settled now. So I don't comment anything on it.
@MARamezani I updated my post.
6:38 PM
@Lamart Good, but I can't upvote more than once, soldier!
Shouldn't Shog9 upvote it? :) -12 is better than -13 :) @MARamezani
@Lamart Dunno. Maybe he's too cool to upvote. Kidding BTW. They usually upvote this.
o_O urbandictionary.com exists in other languages, too!
@DamkerngT. Other countries have cities too you know.
6:51 PM
@MARamezani o_O -- Besides English, you mean?
@DamkerngT. No, I was directing at urban.
Hmm... judging from entries recently added to UD in my first language, I think the definitions are doubtful at best!
@DamkerngT. That doesn't begin to explain some of those defs.
Q: an iconic species of toothed whale -- omission of the article

Cookie MonsterExample with a context (Rare deep-sea encounter with sperm whale videotaped off Louisiana): The footage reveals the curious nature of an iconic species of toothed whale that is known to dive deeply into the abyss in search of its favorite prey, the giant squid. Do we not need an article bef...

NEWSPAPER headlines. Again. Aaargh!
6:55 PM
I like Cookie Monsters, both in the show, and on ELL!
That show?
Argh! Not that one!
Q: Are rumors of a film true? I hope so by golly!

Aiden BellI heard that there is a film being made. If so, please consider my poster: Then people at the Tavern (Lasse V. Karlsen, Yi Jiang, Diago, Tim) had some suggestions: Anyway, I hope people make some good suggestions for plot, etc. ... Good luck with filming and stuff. Aiden Also, Resemblan...

Attribution required. CC content man!
Guys I have 15 rep on meta now. I got -11 on my question. Does -2 per downvote happen?
7:04 PM
@Lamart What?
-2 per downvote? What do you mean?
Oh! I think I know what you mean.
@Lamart NO.
@Lamart BTW you did see that I did some research on "the criteria for chatting". :P
This is a bug.
I had not known.
Even Shog didn't know.
The Railway Man is coming up again. I'm gonna watch the first half I missed the last time. ;-)
@DamkerngT. Whoa you watch TV a lot!
Yep! To maintain my English. ;-)
Isn't that harmful to robot CPU?
Be good, guys. Talk to y'all later.
7:09 PM
@DamkerngT. I'll be better, to make you wrong.
@MARamezani :P
@Lamart I've edited your question, and swapped my downvote to upvote, as it's completely a different thing now. (I just disagreed with increasing rep required for chat room as per your original)
@James Hullo!
Hopefully now it's edited others will remove dvotes too
@MARamezani Howdy
Good thing he ain't cornered now.
7:11 PM
Hullo @Iplodman!
@James As I commented, I don't care anymore. But I would like to thank you for your effort.
@Lamart No thanking me? Sobbing
No, I get all credit :P
It's a noobs privvy
7:15 PM
@James As Capt told me "Forget about it"
@Lamart BTW, I dunno if you should accept the answer.
Upvote it, then wait for a bigger community to see it.
One might avoid looking at a Q that is "resolved".
I'll probs delete my answer soon anyway ;)
Anyway, it looks near impossible to post anything out there. As Capt told, new-users get downvotes :)
Also worth taking some rep outta James. :P
@Lamart I didn't say that!
@MARamezani Thanks for your help :)
7:16 PM
I said that you might garner random not-so-thought-about -1s.
Me and you are both welcome.
@MARamezani I accepted it since it says @James gets +15 for the answer and he deserves it :)
@Lamart No he doesn't.
He deserves more than that.
Oh yes, I could vote too.
Still saying. I think you should unaccept it.
@James I think you can't delete an accepted answer.
Okay Capt. But why?
7:19 PM
@Lamart Is the issue fixed?
I really dont mind. as long as the bug is fixed which Shog is sorting (well, eventually...)
@James I think SE devs are biting fingernails somewhere.
@MARamezani I don't think SE devs have fingernails give the recent changes
Wait, what room am I in, this isn't tavern. scared as a northerner with not-so-perfect English...
@James I'm not a native. And @snail isn't here.
@James They'll bite Joel's.
Okay. Done.
7:23 PM
Ahh cushty, I can chill with my dialect now then, cheers like mush
Yep. Too bad I don't have what cool guys call "dialect".
@James Actually I'm considering coming on Tavern when it's empty here. Whaddya think?
@Lamart Meta.SE's chat.
The Shog9 one?
@Lamart A creature named Shog9 can be found there too.
7:28 PM
I can't risk going there :( @MARamezani
@Lamart Why? And I think you can't. Because you haven't done research.
Oh ya. You mentioned that meta chatrooms require 25 rep.
@Lamart Yes.
@Lamart No, it's still 20. But rep on other sites doesn't count there. Same for chat.so
chat.se is special in that once you have 20 rep on any site you get to chat in the rooms for all sites.
or rather, once your combined rep >= 20
that's where the bug comes in
@Shog9 I dared venture on the Tavern.
(oh no)
7:38 PM
@Shog9 Okay. So for chat.so and meta's chat, I need 20 rep in that site. While in all other ones I just have to do my magic?
well, it works the other direction: if you have 20 on meta or SO, you can chat in chat.se
But if I don't have 20 rep in the main site (as in this current case) but I do have combined 20rep I can't chat on SO and Meta right? @Shog9
Okay. I can chat on Meta's Charcoal HQ probably because I just crossed 20 on meta.se.
@Shog9 Last question. If I cross 20 on meta.se , can I chat on SO chatrooms also? I can't find one at the moment.
@Lamart Come to Tavern.
We're trying to crash a bot there.
@MARamezani Link captain!!
There you go!

 Tavern on the Meta

MY GOD, IT'S FULL OF STARS AND BACKLOG! Wheel of blame link bo...
7:52 PM
@MARamezani I can't chat even though I have 20 rep on meta :(
Maybe it's Tavern that requires 25.
But @Shog9 told its 20 -_-
Maybe all in all it's 20.
But Tavern's different.
@MARamezani I don't know how but I could get in on my next try :)
@Lamart Heh. So James deleted teh answer to your Q after all.
8:03 PM
Life during WW II was so distressing.
@DamkerngT. Ooooh now I'm on Tavern.
Ah, I see.
It's weird.
But kinda phun.
The guys there are also phun.
Yes they are actually phun. I didn't expect that ;)
Hallo again! Sorry, my WiFi is awful today :(
8:12 PM
@Iplodman We're on meta.SE chat.
Ah, having fun? ;)
Come over there and help us crash a bot chat.meta.stackexchange.com/rooms/89/tavern-on-the-meta
My first time there. I was shocked to see +100!
I thought I got a bounty or something, but no. :-)
Damn, I need 20 rep on Meta SE?
8:15 PM
Anyone mind giving those guys a hello from me?
I think you will get +100 when you join Meta.SE.
@Iplodman 1.4k should be enough. Try joining the site, I think you can chat there fine. :-)
Hmm... Is Meta.SE a site?
8:35 PM
@MARamezani What was rude?
@Lamart Astro's bot says it's Astro's fault.
Ohh, hahaha @MARamezani
@DamkerngT. Its a site right?
@DamkerngT. It's a SE.
@Lamart I usually think of SE stacks as stacks, but Meta.SE is a big different, I think.
@MARamezani It must be either an SE or a stack, I suppose!
@DamkerngT. It's safe to assume (hey, that's your catch phrase) that it's a SE about SEs.
8:43 PM
checking how many times I had said that!
7 times!
I got 2 pages of my come to think (of it)!
Before I forget...
ELL status: 15,110 questions
I'm off. Have a nice debate with yourself about ELL Qs. Nighty night!
Don't let the bed bugs bite!
Oh, I think something is wrong with the profile page now. The CSS looks wrong!
I think you're mixing apples and oranges here. The word complete in "You complete me" has a different meaning than the word complete in "Let's complete the homework assignment tomorrow." They are listed as meanings 8 & 9 in Collins; one means "finish" while the other means "make more whole or prefect." Besides, everyone knows that "completed" homework assignments are rarely "perfect" assignments – that's why teachers carry red pens! ;^) — J.R. ♦ 1 min ago
@J.R. I thought of it as half full vs. half empty.
Arguably, complete means finish (I think I saw a dictionary a say so), but when I try to think of the real senses between the two, they're really like expressing the same thing from two angles.
"half full vs. half empty" is probably a bad metaphor here.
Then again, saying that it could be looked at from different angles could also be misleading.
In my,
> But once you complete me, my life is "perfect".
I tried so hard to think of a better simple word, but eventually couldn't come up with any better word!
(I didn't really want to use "perfect", but how could one explain what "complete" is without saying either "finish" or "complete"?)
9:38 PM
@snailboat Hello!
I'm going to reply to a message I got earlier, so give me a moment :-)
@MARamezani There's nothing wrong with speaking a non-standard dialect of English, and I certainly wouldn't want someone to think that they shouldn't do so in my presence. One of the things linguists try to do is combat prejudice against language variation
Which brings me to another topic. I've said this before, but maybe I didn't express myself very well, so let me try again:
When we talk about language, we aren't competing. Nobody wins, and nobody loses. We're collaborating, trying to work together so we can learn about language. No one should be afraid of what someone here might think when they speak English, whether they're speaking their native dialect or their own non-native variety of the language.
And nobody should be afraid of making mistakes here. You have to make mistakes in order to learn.
It can be a bit uncomfortable having your language put under a microscope and analyzed. That's fine, and I understand that. That's why I think we should only offer corrections when we know people want corrections. When I give people feedback, it's not because I'm the language police, and it's not something anyone should be worried about―I'm just trying to help :-)
Q: When should I use "finish" instead of "complete," and vice versa?

mmonemI am confused about when to use finish instead of complete and vice versa. May you help me in understanding when to use those words?

Looks like someone already asked about finish and complete over on ELU!
@pazzo Yes, but we have to be careful not to make a generalization like "whose can always have inanimate reference", which is false
Interrogative whose must have animate reference, while relative whose can have animate or inanimate reference
> Whose car is that? ← interrogative whose must have animate reference
> At the general level we will define a past tense as one whose primary or characteristic use is to indicate past time. ← relative whose can have inanimate reference (as it does here, referring to tense via one)

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