The Nineteenth Byte

luser droog

00:00

I got bored with the pattern matching language and started playing with new code for inca3. I've got some encouraging results in accessing the extended graphics characters with xterm. This should allow me to pack even more commands into a byte, at the expense of defining several more conversions (text-input format, disk-format, memory-format, text-output-format).

I also want to combine the ability to use longer names with the existing ability to use names without intervening spaces. I think I can do this by taking the set of decreasing prefixes of a string, returning the longest prefix that is defined and pushing back the remaining name fragments to the scanner.

Martin Büttner

00:13

@Calvin'sHobbies only now did I realise the significance of the number 99 for your question today -.- (despite checking earlier whether question no. 100 would be your next)

PhiNotPi

I leave PPCG for a few hours and I come back to one of my posts being close-voted?

Martin Büttner

we do that all the time when you're not watching

New Sandboxed Posts

00:31

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Challenge about seals stranded upon an iceberg (temporary title; title suggestions always appreciated!) code-golf A family of seals are stranded upon an iceberg in the Artic Circle. There is a radio transmitter located on the iceberg which the seals can use to call for help. However, only the ...

randomra

00:45

^ The backstory made me laugh. :D

Doorknob

02:17

The sandbox just got its 16th "More than 10 answers posted to this question in the past 7 days" auto-flag.

Yep, sixteen. I am slightly annoyed at this.

PhiNotPi

How often does it get an auto-flag?

Do a lot of PPCG questions get auto-flagged?

Doorknob

Every 7 days, I would assume.

Autoflags are about 80% of the flag workload here -_-

PhiNotPi

Well, it seems like the mods tools are simply making more work for themselves.

At that point, they're not really "tools."

Doorknob

Heh, occasionally they're useful. But usually it's just "oh, hey look, another 'too many edits' autoflag! declined"

PhiNotPi

On the website I "moderate", there's a flagging system, but all it does is send an email notification to the mods' (special purpose) email addresses.

I'm just listening to some music right now.

Waiting on some interesting KOTH entries to show up.

randomra

02:46

I'm thinking of a challenge where everyone's name would be hashed to like 3 Turing-complete language on esolangs.org and you should have to do the given task in one of those languages.

Doorknob

That would be... interesting.

randomra

It's hard to find the interesting ones in esolangs and here the good ones could be voted to top.

Doorknob

Or there could be a challenge to stick in your username/userid and have the program spit out a deterministically random esolang (possibly making it change every day?), and the submissions to that challenge could then be used by users here who want to try new languages.

randomra

Yeah, mine would have a snippet with name input, language links output too.

might worth to add the daily change too

But in your proposal you don't get to vote so you never know which is a good language.

Doorknob

And it would be really disappointing to get a language like this one. :P

randomra

02:55

I would restrict it to the Turing-complete ones: esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Turing_complete

Doorknob

Oh, whoops, right. I was looking at the "all languages" list.

New Sandboxed Posts

05:09

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Crack a Keyed Caesar Cipher Given the input below, write an algorithm to crack a keyed Caesar cipher. A keyed Caesar cipher consists of a word which acts as a key (eg puzzle) the rest of the alphabet is then shifted as demonstrated below: a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z ...

Optimizer

06:44

@Calvin'sHobbies like I was not right :P

Calvin's Hobbies

07:46

Is there a main meta post that talks about not using languages invented after the challenge? I can't seem to find one.

Sp3000

Interesting... I'm having trouble too

Calvin's Hobbies

Is it just an unwritten rule? :P

Sp3000

Well it is written... just all over the main site itself

Maybe this post?

Closest I could find

Optimizer

08:05

@Calvin'sHobbies kind of

New Meta Posts

08:26

0

Q: Can I ever answer with a language invented after the challenge was posted?

A common rule here on PPCG is that programming languages invented after a challenge was posted cannot be used to answer that challenge. (I've had trouble finding a specific meta post that addresses this though.) This rule makes total sense because without it, someone could "invent" a language th...

Optimizer

@Calvin'sHobbies dude

I asked the same question like 1 minute from you

:/

Calvin's Hobbies

Hahaha, too slow! Sorry ;)

Optimizer

:D

you should change the last few lines of your question

remove themm

they should be answers.

New Meta Posts

Recent Questions - Programming Puzzles & Code G…: Should answers with languages/versions newer than the question be considered non competing answers?

posted on March 10, 2015 by Optimizer

It has considered as an unwritten rule for a long time now. Lets have a written decision on this. This post targets all answers written in languages or versions of languages which were created/launched after the question was asked. Whether the newer language/version was influenced by the question or not, we should have a single stand.

Optimizer

wow ^ what a bug!

I have deleted the question long since. its not even a proper one box

Martin Büttner

08:57

@Calvin'sHobbies there's this meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/1420/8478

@PeterTaylor Do you happen to know the computational power of a Turing machine that can only perform an arbitrary but finite number of steps?

Peter Taylor

10:50

@MartinBüttner I'm not quite sure what you mean.

PhiNotPi

11:06

I think he;s asking the time-version of "what's the computational power of a Turing machine with a finite memory"

Kinda like how a real-world computer can have almost an arbitrarily large memory, but never "enough" (infinite).

@PeterTaylor ^ ping :)

Zgarb

11:22

I interpret it as "describe the class of those Turing machines that always halt".

randomra

12:14

Just to add my thought: for me the "arbitrary large but finite number of steps" seems to be the definition of "infinite steps".

PhiNotPi

12:25

Maybe this wiki article is relevant: Machine that always halts

Martin Büttner

12:58

@Zgarb yes, although I think that should be equivalent to machines with finite memory, since you can solve the halting problem for those.

@PhiNotPi thanks that's what I was looking for

Zgarb

@MartinBüttner What do you mean by finite memory? Is it constant, or given by some computable function of input size (then it's not equivalent to the above)? Or is it given by some uncomputable function of the input size (then their halting problem is probably not solvable)?

Martin Büttner

yeah actually I think that total Turing machines might be more powerful that what I'm looking for

there will be an a priori limit to the number of steps the TM can take. that limit can be set arbitrarily (and can probably be at least a linear function of the input size, possibly even polynomial), but it will be bounded.

okay, the limit can definitely depend on the input size by a computable function, but probably not by any computable function.

Zgarb

Well, then you just get all functions in the respective time complexity class.

Martin Büttner

right, that makes sense

@Rainbolt you ninja-deleted your comment while I was replying :D

out of curiosity, did you get a ping anyway?

Rainbolt

I deleted it within ten seconds of posting, and no.

I know why you replied without even reading

Martin Büttner

13:10

heh

Rainbolt

That post is very pedantic

Martin Büttner

what, my comment?

Rainbolt

The OP

Martin Büttner

oh okay

Rainbolt

"I know I can't win with an answer written in a language that was invented after the challenge, but can I technically post my answer anyway and just not win?"

Answer is: who cares really

Martin Büttner

13:13

people who want to answer old challenges and are afraid of down and delete votes for posting a technically invalid answer?

@Zgarb that is a really interesting challenge

Rainbolt

@MartinBüttner This guy was't afraid - codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/32869/18487

Anyway it's been asked and now it'll have an official answer

Martin Büttner

I for one would like the disclaimer I suggested in the comment to be made mandatory for such answers

Zgarb

@MartinBüttner I started thinking about the reverse operation of merging one day, and was surprised that it is not trivial whether it can be done for a given list, but it admits a short algorithm (at least if you have no duplicates).

I don't know how much harder it is with duplicates. Depends on the tie-breaking rule, I guess.

luser droog

I've been playing more with the xterm graphics charset. I've cobbled together an alternate keyboard which you can switch to/from with ctrl-N and ctrl-O.

Optimizer

3

A: Spiral Programming

Python 2, 290 It's probably really bad, but I tried :D The output contains trailing spaces, but that is not forbidden in the spec. m=x=y=c=0 l,f=1,[31*[' ']for t in[0]*31] for i in[0]*input(): k=m%4 f[14+y+(2<m<6)][14+x-(m>3)],x,y,c='|/_\\'[k],x+(k>0)*(2*(4>m)-1),y+(k!=2)*(2*(2<m<6)-1),c+1 ...

luser droog

13:23

The layout is not final. I just quickly defined everything so I could display it.

This does tie it to xterm or other vt220 terminal emulators.

so a windows port will be a chore.

Wondering if I can cut/paste these characters from the terminal. Do they translate?

◆1234567890-=
QWERTYUIOPπ£≠
␊⎼␋⎺⎻[]\
ASDFGHJKL:"
⎽␍°±␤;'
ZXCVBNM<>?
␌␉,./

Hm. kinda.

Martin Büttner

13:51

@Zgarb I guess then I need to figure out what exactly sort of functions I can exactly compute for the time limit

-exactly

PhiNotPi

14:11

Running a Core War battle now.

It's pretty slow.

Well, I would expect that, considering how many battles are being played.

About 16000 per pair.

Dwarf beats Imp

It will probably be worth my time to optimize the controller.

Unofficial Leaderboard:

5 - CopyPasta
3 - Janitor
2 - Dwarf
2 - Imp

I'm going to ditch some debug text and see if I can run an actual full tournament his time.

Because I think the fact that debug text was generated each cycle (regardless of whether it will be printed) would slow it down a lot.

The above board was done with a small core size.

In the worst case, both opponents would be imps that can't win.

Then the full war between those two would be (8191 possible starting offsets) * (8 * 8192 max time per battle) * (2 options for who moves first each battle) = 1.07 billion ply (total instructions executed during the war)

It's about seven minutes per pair-off right now.

PhiNotPi

14:43

Official pairwise results, hot off the press!

Dwarf Imp

CopyPasta = Imp

Janitor = Imp

CopyPasta Dwarf

Janitor Dwarf

Rainbolt

All of my databases have entered the "Emergency" state. That sounds bad

On the bright side, I have two million READONLY rows.

PhiNotPi

Janitor CopyPasta

Leaderboard:
    5 - Janitor
    3 - CopyPasta
    2 - Dwarf
    2 - Imp

Geobits

Is it just me, or does the phrase "dating back to the 20th century" make anyone else here feel old?

Rainbolt

14:59

It makes me feel old

I remember when Rock Band introduced a genre of music called 00s

Geobits

To be fair, Rock Band wasn't around until 2007ish, so they only had to wait a few years for the decade to be over.

Rainbolt

I still have a working Rock Band setup

Geobits

I like this wildly-optimistic quote:

> In the article, guitarist Steven Van Zandt claims, "in the history of rock 'n' roll, Rock Band may just turn out to be up there with the rise of FM radio, CDs, or MTV."

Not quite....

Rainbolt

Well, it was headed that way

Geobits

Was it ever more than a fad? I mean, I know it was hugely popular for a couple years, but...

Rainbolt

15:03

Rock Band was responsible for many more get-togethers than Halo in my small town.

My Mom plays bass on Expert while singing on Expert.

And she doesn't play video games at all usually

Geobits

must refrain from mom joke...

Rainbolt

I mean she played Duke Nukem with my dad, my brother, and I when we were like 10 and 12

And I think she did Mario Party

Anyway I think she spent like $400 on DLC for Rock Band.

Geobits

Damn

Rainbolt

And all of my birthdays and christmases for those two years went to DLC as well

So we whip it out on holidays and play Rock Band again

Geobits

Nice preemptive edit :P

Rainbolt

15:07

Thanks

You know, drumming on a Rock Band set really teaches you how to drum well. I know it looks like a joke. Someone who actually drums thought I was joking

Geobits

I could see that for the drums. The guitar is terrible for that, though (for both it and Guitar Hero).

Rainbolt

You get the coordination of moving different limbs at different speeds and you get the repetitive movement down pat.

All that's left is learning how to hit stuff that isn't a pad.

And the hi hat with your left foot I guess

Geobits

Nah, just get an electronic drum set. There are some really nice ones now.

Unless you're live on stage, nobody would know.

Rainbolt

Oh I have. My friends and I wired my brother's trap set so we could play Rock Band with it

One of my friends is a robotics engineer

Geobits

That sounds like more fun than playing the game :D

Rainbolt

15:11

Biggest challenge was getting the sensors to not register 20 taps because of the vibrations

Geobits

If I could wire a guitar (in a way that made sense) up, I'd give that a shot.

Rainbolt

So we tightened all of the drums to sound really terrible, and we set it to not register more than once every x ms

Geobits

Peak detection probably would've worked better.

Rainbolt

We were in highschool lol

Geobits

Assuming you had good software control.

Rainbolt

15:14

We built a trebuchet right after we learned trigonometry and we thought we were awesome for using it. Didn't work. We launched a pumpkin like 20 feet using a 600 lb barrel of concrete

Geobits

That sounds very disappointing. Obviously you just need ten times as much concrete ;)

Rainbolt

Then we built a potato gun and launched a fencepost .35 miles (according to a four wheeler's mileage ticker)

We also painted a wall with it using some red solo cups filled with paintballs.

Geobits

We built a golf ball cannon. Used an air compressor filling large PVC pipes as a pressure tank. Add some fast-opening elctric valves and you can do some serious damage.

Rainbolt

That was ours as well

Our first one was powered by Axe Body Spray

That one sucked though

Geobits

I have no idea how far they flew, but they were out of sight basically instantly.

Fast enough that it would blow a clean hole in a fence, though.

Rainbolt

15:17

Imagine if we had hit a cow with our flying fence post of death

Geobits

Yea, spray-combustion ones just don't have the oomph :)

Rainbolt

My dad would have been pretty pissed

Geobits

Most likely, yes :D

Rainbolt

Oh, so when we went to get the fence post back out of the ground, we're walking through the field and my friend (the now robotics engineer) says, "Run." with a panicked face and takes off.

Geobits

That's... never good.

Rainbolt

15:19

So we are all running and after about 200 yards I finally look back and there's nothing there so I ask the question: "Why are we running?"

He just says "Keep running" and he looks panicked as hell still

So we get all the way back to the four wheeler and he finally tells us that he stepped on a coffee can that some hornets were living in

And they are still following us.

We drove off and nobody got bit thankfully

Turns out it was the coffee can that my dad uses to bang on when he feeds the catfish. He bangs on it and the top of the lake goes wild and then he throws out some dogfood and they eat it.

Geobits

I always regretted not getting some of those GPS-tagged balls to find out how far we were launching them.

Rainbolt

So that could have been bad

Geobits

Nah, hornets just want to cuddle most of the time.

Rainbolt

I saw one of them on a horse and didn't know what it was so I went to go get it off and my dad was like "Get the hell back!"

He threw something at it and it flew off and the horse was dripping blood

I've been scared shitless of hornets ever since

They're like two inches long. Very creepy...

Martin Büttner

@Geobits Think about it... Doorknob wasn't even born "back then"

Geobits

15:24

There are worse things to be scared of. At least that one's useful (from a survival perspective).

@MartinBüttner How old is he now, anyway? I swear he's been 13 for over a year :P

Martin Büttner

lol no, he's been 14 since December or January I think

Geobits

"You kids these days just don't get it. Back in my day we had to stream our video games."

Optimizer

"back in my day, we had to study hard to play games"

Rainbolt

Haha I found Doorknob's sock.

Geobits

Eww

Rainbolt

15:28

It's probably clean. How dirty can a shiny piece of metal get?

Geobits

I don't care what it's made of, I have a general rule of not messing with teenage boys' socks. Who knows what it's been used for?

Rainbolt

Great. I created 53 thousand files in ten minutes. And it's gonna take About 1 Day to send them to the recycle bin. Really Windows? Really?

I wouldn't have have discovered the true purpose of socks without American Pie.

Martin Büttner

Peter Taylor

@Geobits Luxury!

Rainbolt

@MartinBüttner That is so strangely niche that I am amazed you managed to pull that out of the Internet.

Martin Büttner

15:32

it's the oatmeal

not all that niche

Geobits

Anecdotally, I agree that Japanese hornets are indeed a big "nope".

@PeterTaylor Oh, I suppose you got your start further back, on those old CD-based machines? ;)

Rainbolt

I tried and tried the other day to find a way to play my 16 bit Dune 2000 disk

Wow

Geobits

wow indeed

Rainbolt

Sorry about that...

Geobits

Freud is messing with you today :P

Rainbolt

15:35

Lmao chat.stackexchange.com/messages/20466654/history

Holy mother of Jesus. Wikipedia's page on Japanese hornets: "An individual hornet can kill forty European honey bees in a single minute; a group of 30 hornets can destroy an entire hive containing 30,000 bees in a little more than three hours. The hornets kill and dismember the bees, returning to their nest with the bee thoraxes, which they feed to their larvae, leaving heads and limbs behind. The honey and bee larvae are also taken to feed the hornet larvae."

Peter Taylor

@Geobits CD? Luxury! We 'ad to plug a cassette player into computer and load t' game from that.

Martin Büttner

@Rainbolt it's much more interesting how the bees fight back: theoatmeal.com/comics/bees_vs_hornets

(the Japanese bees, that is)

Rainbolt

Someone brought out Peter's accent.

In text.

Ya'll seein' this?

Geobits

15:54

@PeterTaylor Ok, you win. My first computer had the floppy drive built in.

Rainbolt

Looks like the solution to my problem is:
1. Install Dune 2000 on a 32 bit system
2. Copy the files to my 64 bit system
3. Fix the registry

Peter Taylor

16:17

@Geobits So did mine, but the games were on tape. The disks were for serious stuff like CP|M.

Geobits

Oh, floppy and cassette. Fancy! I never had any cassette games; didn't really start playing until '88 or so.

Optimizer

we had cassette games here till late 90s . They sell in high volumes even now.

Geobits

16:43

You crazy Europeans ;)

Martin Büttner

Europeans?

I thought Optimizer was from India

Geobits

I don't know for sure. For some reason I thought he was in the UK.

Optimizer

We do have a state called UttraKhand

Runer112

stupid java generics

I should totally be allowed to do this

interface ImmutableCollection<E> { ... <E2 super E> ImmutableCollection<E2> add(E2 e); ... }

oh, I think I see why now

TheBestOne

16:59

public interface I<E> {<A extends E> I<A> add(A other);}

Runer112

it's because the type system is crap

Optimizer

Object everything

Runer112

if I add a String to an immutable list of Number

Java should be able to figure out that I get back an immutable list of Object... but nope

Optimizer

Java in general is a big nope

Runer112

@TheBestOne that kills the collection type parameter, which kind of defeats the purpose of having generics

Java's the least gross OO langauge that I know, so it's what I use

Optimizer

17:07

JS FTW

Geobits

OTOH, If I add a String to a list of Number, it's a sign I'm probably doing something wrong. If I need a list of Objects, that's what I should have declared.

Runer112

if the signature was just add(E e), then I'm definitely doing something wrong

Optimizer

it should be add(LE e)

Runer112

but the idea of the super thing is to suggest that you want the type to be lifted up

Geobits

I guess I just don't understand why this is needed (or desired, tbh).

Optimizer

17:11

dont listen to me, I am just random blabbering

Runer112

no generics are really needed

TheBestOne

((List<Object>)(numberList)).add(string)

Runer112

it all works as <Object>

VisualMelon

generics are fantastic when done properly

Runer112

but then you forfeit the power of generics

Optimizer

17:12

or rather, forfeit to the power of generics

Runer112

which should include the ability to calculate a shared supertype at compile time

VisualMelon

@Runer112 have you considered C# ?

Runer112

Not really

VisualMelon

(it doesn't have multiple class inheritance, should that have been implied by the timing)

that would explain why it isn't the nicest OO language you know

Runer112

does C# allow this

Optimizer

17:14

this yes

VisualMelon

allow what, sorry? the weird covariance described above?

C# isn't exactly bursting with immutable collections (or if it is I haven't noticed and probably should have by now)

Runer112

more like contravariance

I mean, java doesn't have them either

VisualMelon

probably, yeah, I get the two confused

Runer112

but just the ability to describe such a method

VisualMelon

but if the list is is (co|contra)varient, then you should be able to cast down as you like, which I believe you can in Java also, so I'm probably missing the point

Runer112

17:17

that's probably what I'm going to end up doing

but I can't think of any reason why the compiler couldn't figure it out

VisualMelon

probably because the type isn't (co|contra)varient, and it's horrible

Runer112

it doesn't seem horrible to me, it seems quite well defined

add an object of type E2 to an immutable collection of type E, get an immutable collection of the most specific supertype shared by E and E2

anyways, pipe dreams I guess

I'll try the cast method and hope that it doesn't burst into flames when I try to add a non-String to a class that implements ImmutableCollection<String>

VisualMelon

I can't say I'm a fan of most any implicit type conversions

TheBestOne

Closest I can find: public interface I<E> {<A> I<? super A> add(A other);}

VisualMelon

the notion of adding to an immutable collection seems iffy in of itself, is this in standard java libs?

TheBestOne

17:22

Apparently you can't have multiple lower bounds.

Runer112

I think I'm using the terminology correctly

TheBestOne

@VisualMelon Adding to an immutable collection should return a new collection. Adding to a mutable collection modifies the collection.

Runer112

I was going with the interpretation that unmodifiable means you can't add to it

immutable means you can add to it, but you cannot mutate the object itself, so it has to return a new instance

VisualMelon

@TheBestOne quite, but that doesn't sound very javary

Runer112

it isn't

Geobits

17:25

Maybe naive to ask, but when is an immutable collection really useful? Besides declaring something like a constant list, I could maybe see that. When should you be adding to it?

Runer112

when you're interpreting a stack-based language :P

VisualMelon

is this collection your stack?

Geobits

Why would it have an advantage over a mutable one?

Runer112

no no, these are just lists in the language

this is an attempt to improve CJam stuff, for reference

which is basically a functional langauge, since all of its operations return a value

Optimizer

17:48

F

Runer112

18:00

what are we paying our respects for?

Optimizer

functional language

Runer112

indeed, RIP functional languages

Rainbolt

18:41

@MartinBüttner Remember that conversation about SQL indices we had the other day?

Martin Büttner

yeah

Rainbolt

Well I've been pounding away on this query for two days now, trying to make it better. Then I had the brilliant thought to disable all of the indices just to see how much they were helping. Query ran instantly. Less than a second.

Turns out there were already 6 indices in place.

Peter Taylor

@Runer112, the kind of lattice type inference you want may be coming in some future version of Java, to judge by this recent Oracle patent.

Runer112

what the hell

are they trying to patent type inference

Martin Büttner

@Rainbolt so much for "if in doubt, add an index" ;)

Rainbolt

18:54

If in doubt, remove the mess that's already there. If still in doubt, add an index and wink.

Runer112

19:20

@PeterTaylor that looks really interesting, but unfortunately, it looks dead as well

abaldwin99

19:34

Hi, Does this question fit at code-golf?

What's the shortest way to represent a datetime in alphanumeric characters?

BACKGROUND:

I am printing a datetime stamps on my products. The ink I am using is expensive. By printing numbers AND letters it seems like I should be able to reduce the total number of characters printed while still encoding the datetime information.

Here's what I currently do...

I start with the date as an integer...

201503101436 (That's 3/10/2015 2:36PM)

Then I convert this integer from base-10 to base-36 and get...

TheBestOne

How about base-64 ?

Optimizer

base 225 ?

then convert to character

abaldwin99

trying to avoid characters that can't be read back over a phone easily

Optimizer

/§_×ì

abaldwin99

yes want to avoid those lol

Geobits

19:36

Base 64's probably your best bet then.

Optimizer

base 95

:#x<K:

Geobits

You could do 95 I guess, if you're just reading them back from a phone. Typing a lot of those is still a pain.

Optimizer

colon pound eks less-than caps-kay colon

abaldwin99

true that could work pretty well

Geobits

Any time I have to go into the second/third symbol menu I get irritated :)

Optimizer

19:38

7 u9H7 - seven space you nine caps-eich seven

are milliseconds important ?

Geobits

Of course, you could probably get it a bit shorter by starting with a unix timestamp instead of full datetime, if it's feasible.

Optimizer

you can skip the initial "20" also. depends though.

TheBestOne

You could huffman encode the time :P

Optimizer

@TheBestOne overkill

Ypnypn

Just count the number of minutes since an epoch, and base-36 it.

Geobits

19:44

Since any of these solutions are going to be incomprehensible to humans anyway, just use a tiny bar code. No characters and it saves ink. Read off as "skinny line skinny line fat line ..." :P

Optimizer

@Ypnypn base 95

dunno whats with you all stopping at 36

TheBestOne

@Ypnypn 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ...

Optimizer

still counting ?

Geobits

Is the printing going to be in monospace? If not, you may (occasionally) have an issue with ''"'"'""'"" in base 95.

abaldwin99

printer can't do barcodes :(

TheBestOne

19:49

@Optimizer I delegated the job to a program :P

Geobits

Your printer sucks.

abaldwin99

yes it's monospaced

hah yes it does lol

Runer112

base-36 is still pretty dangerous for human communication

2

abaldwin99

@Ypnypn wins I think that's 5 characters to represent every minute for the next 100 years

Runer112

0O1Il

TheBestOne

19:53

@Runer112 I prefer base-52 when talking with people

Geobits

You talk in caps and lower? I prefer to use volume and intonation to do that.

Ypnypn

No spaces or periods?

Runer112

but unfortunately, if you reduce to base-33 or so, it'll only work for about 70 years

heh

abaldwin99

i'll be dead then so no worries

Geobits

Well if it only needs to work for your lifetime we can probably shorten it.

Runer112

19:56

I can imagine the person reading this off, reading calmly

then they hit an uppercase letter

and scream it at you through the phone, and then just continue calmly

(you said something about this being relayed over a phone, right?)

abaldwin99

lmao

yes it will be spoken over the phone by non-tech people and entered into an input box by non-tech people

Geobits

There's only ~37M minutes in a lifetime, so that should be four digits (in base 95), tops.

Runer112

8B is another questionable mix-up

TheBestOne

For some reason, I thought you would do it via dial tones.

abaldwin99

8B could be bad actually. The text is not very legible.

oh sorry no it would be verbal

Geobits

19:59

Wait, 8B is your limit but you were okay with 0OIl|?

Runer112

so you probably want to get rid of at least O, I, L, and B

abaldwin99

those would be bad too

worse

Optimizer

If people can pronounce APL, I don't see why we cannot do base 255 ...

TheBestOne

verbal dial tones...

Geobits

People don't pronounce APL. Those "people" are at least part machine.

Optimizer

20:00

no

here someone actually did

Runer112

"greater than x backslash bar right shoe 5 circle"

Geobits

Yes. I'm saying they're not fully human.

On the internet, nobody knows you're a cyborg.

Optimizer

1 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 1 1 0 0
I mean here ------------------------^

Rainbolt

Interesting. Users can close their own posts as a duplicate now as though they had temporarily gained mod power. meta.stackexchange.com/questions/250981/…

TheBestOne

Here's the names of all UTF-8 letters: fileformat.info/info/charset/UTF-8/list.htm

abaldwin99

20:10

thanks all for the help... count minutes from epoch convert to base-33 which will work for 70 years. Total characters = 5

Runer112

base-33? I thought we were getting rid of 4 characters: O, I, L, B

abaldwin99

oops

Runer112

still gives you ~60 years

and you may as well base the times starting in 2015 or something

abaldwin99

cool probably ok. I'm looking through TheBestO's list and I really don't see any that are going to print out that good.

yup i'm going to start 2015-01-01

print quality is pretty low

Runer112

shame that the average person can't read monochrome bitmaps as binary

that would be pretty efficient

I guess that's basically the same as a barcode, though

Geobits

20:18

Shame that abaldwin won't shell out for a decent printer ;)

abaldwin99

lol

it's actually pretty much the best printer you can buy for the application we're doing.

apparently not enough demand for someone to make one that prints at a decent resolution :/

xnor

the recent meta discussion made me wonder: why do we accept answers at all?

Runer112

20:35

What's the difference between not being allowed to be chosen as the accepted answer and not being allowed to win

TheBestOne

Shouldn't this cover the issue: meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/1071/32700

Optimizer

@Runer112 its same

@TheBestOne does not include unintentional languages/versions

Runer112

I'm having trouble discerning the difference between the responses in that meta discussion xnor posted, then

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