12:04 AM
@PauloCereda Wouldn't passing the -jobname option help?

I guess I have to use the mouse to leave... There is an anchor reading "leave" in top right corner...

@PauloCereda That worked perfectly. Muito obrigado.

12:26 AM
@nks Ctrl+L and lots of Tab..... and space would also do

12:37 AM
@JosephWright Thank you for your detailed answer.

1:03 AM
LOL

I noticed something very strange, may be someone has an idea: I run pdfltex first time, I get no error, but message saying to re-run again
Package longtable Warning: Table widths have changed. Rerun LaTeX
Now, I type pdflatex again, and now I get an error about capacity
! TeX capacity exceeded, sorry [main memory size=5000000].
\eq@repacka ...bal \setbox #1\hbox {\unhcopy \tw@
\unskip \count@ -\lastpena...
l.452302 \end{dmath*}

! ==> Fatal error occurred, no output PDF file produced!
The above tells me, that second run uses something new that did not exist in the first run to cause this problem. So, I go now to the latex file and remove the offending long equation and try again. But it is strange that first run does not show the error ! very strange.
it seems, in the second pass, Latex is using more memory (since now it is making the TOC), and so it has less memory to process the actual latex document. Hence the error shows up in the second run. Since when I open the pdf file after first run, the TOC is not there. So may be this explains why I see the error on second run and not the first.

1:22 AM
@Nasser Are you loading the etex package?

@AlanMunn it won't help:-)

@AlanMunn No. These are what I am loading. Should I do it?
\documentclass[10pt,notitlepage]{report}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage[margin={1.5cm}]{geometry}%
\usepackage{amsmath}
\usepackage{hyperref}
\usepackage{fancyvrb}
\usepackage{longtable}
\usepackage{pdflscape}
\usepackage{graphicx}

\ifdefined\HCode
\else
\usepackage{newtxtext,newtxmath}
\usepackage{breqn}
\usepackage{tocloft}
\usepackage{etoc}
\fi
I can reproduce this problem easily.

@DavidCarlisle Well just a thought. Why not?

WHat I do now, is run pdflatex 2 times, to find the problems.

@AlanMunn because if you run out of main mem, adding another package just defines more commands and so uses up more memory

1:25 AM
@DavidCarlisle I guess I was thinking of no room for a new ... errors, not out of memory errors.

@AlanMunn I know:-)

Is there a way to increase Latex memory? I have lots of memory on my PC?

@Nasser the toc uses hardly any memory

@DavidCarlisle well, then why would I get the memory error only on second run and not first? Something is taking more memory in second run. I just got it again:
Underfull \hbox (badness 10000) in paragraph at lines 513130--513130
$[] \T1/ntxrx/m/n/10 + [] \OMS/ntxsy/m/n/10 ^^@ []|$
pdfTeX warning (ext4): destination with the same identifier (name{60}) has been
already used, duplicate ignored
<to be read again>
\relax
l.513150 \hypertarget{60}{}
[2954]
! TeX capacity exceeded, sorry [main memory size=5000000].
\eq@capture ...ty -\@Mi \fi \keep@glue \@@endmath
\eq@addpunct \@@par \eq@wd...

@Nasser yes you can edit the limits in texmf.cnf up to a certain extent. luatex uses dynamic memory allocation but for pdftex/xetex memory is a fixed but configurable sized array]

1:27 AM
12

I have a plot with a lot of measurement datapoints. I exported this plot from Matlab2tikz. When I wanted to compile this, it said that the memory was exceeded. Now I found this, How to expand TeX's “main memory size”? (pgfplots memory overload). It tells me that I can export different tikzpictur...

@DavidCarlisle ok, will go now edit this texmf.cnf file and increase it and see. thanks!

@Nasser Or as David said, try luatex instead.

@Nasser well I suppose it takes a bit (and a bit more with hyperref) but you must be very close to the edge anyway. when it doesn't fail what do the last lines of the log say the ones that looks like
Here is how much of TeX's memory you used:
238 strings out of 493109
2515 string characters out of 6135009
52967 words of memory out of 5000000
3791 multiletter control sequences out of 15000+600000
3640 words of font info for 14 fonts, out of 8000000 for 9000
1141 hyphenation exceptions out of 8191
23i,1n,17p,117b,36s stack positions out of 5000i,500n,10000p,200000b,80000s

@DavidCarlisle will let you know. I am removing the last complained about equation and trying now.
@DavidCarlisle here it is (from first pass, no error)
Package rerunfilecheck Info: Checksums for report.out':
(rerunfilecheck)             Before: EF8D6F0152EF1C4470D75C154BB009E9;427
(rerunfilecheck)             After:  B5E47786D64AE7CEFE39F7110C7D515A;865.
Package atveryend Info: Empty hook AtVeryVeryEnd' on input line 903708.
)
Here is how much of TeX's memory you used:
36143 strings out of 493109
563084 string characters out of 6135003
1307268 words of memory out of 5000000
19263 multiletter control sequences out of 15000+600000
117740 words of font info for 212 fonts, out of 8000000 for 9000
I'll run it again now and see what the log says

1307268 words of memory out of 5000000 not as close as I would have expected

1:38 AM
may be I found a bug in pdflatex :)
I like finding bugs in programs. I once worked as software tester, and used to find more bugs than anyone else.
ok, it finished second run, error again, now will show the log file of second run:
! TeX capacity exceeded, sorry [main memory size=5000000].
\eq@capture ...ty -\@Mi \fi \keep@glue \@@endmath
l.514085 \end{dmath*}

If you really absolutely need more capacity,
you can ask a wizard to enlarge me.

Here is how much of TeX's memory you used:
28672 strings out of 493109
440573 string characters out of 6135003
5000000 words of memory out of 5000000
19267 multiletter control sequences out of 15000+600000
116424 words of font info for 210 fonts, out of 8000000 for 9000
Why would words used increase from 52967 words in first run to 5000000 in second run? must be some package or something strange. but will go now try to increase latex memory and try again

@Nasser so you used a lot of extra mem. Is your dmath inside longtable? could be that the width changed as happens with lt and dmath just got stuck on linebreaking the new width an got itself into a loop? but I'm done good night..

@DavidCarlisle no. My dmath is not inside any table at all. Just in normal flow.

@Paul Gessler I get an error trying to compile the following code. It indicates that there is an error in the command that I issue to plot the line y = x.

\documentclass[10pt]{amsart}
\usepackage{tikz}
\usetikzlibrary{calc,angles,positioning,intersections,quotes,decorations.markings}
\usepackage{mathtools,systeme,array}

\usepackage{tkz-euclide}
\usetkzobj{all}
\usepackage{pgfplots}
\pgfplotsset{compat=1.11}

\begin{document}
\begin{tikzpicture}
\begin{axis}[width=4in,axis equal image,clip=false,
axis lines=middle,
xmin=-4,xmax=6,samples=501,
xlabel=$x$,ylabel=$y$,
ymin=-4,ymax=14,
restrict y to domain=-4:14,
enlargelimits={abs=0.25cm},
axis line style={latex-latex},
ticklabel style={font=\tiny,fill=white},
xtick={\empty},ytick={\empty},
xlabel style={at={(ticklabel* cs:1)},anchor=north west},
ylabel style={at={(ticklabel* cs:1)},anchor=south west}
]
\draw (axis cs:-3,-3) coordinate(A) node[left]{$A$};
\draw (axis cs:0,10.5) coordinate(B) node[above left]{$B$};

2:11 AM
@DavidCarlisle @AlanMunn I switched to using lualatex and now I no longer see the problem with ram in second runs. So will just use lualatex from now on to compile to pdf.

6 hours later…
7:54 AM
@ChristianHupfer Who?

8:10 AM
Hello?

8:26 AM
@Anthony Hi

9:02 AM
@AlanMunn My pleasure. :)

9:18 AM
@egreg For pdflatex?

0

StackExchange continues to support TUG with corporate membership (many thanks). With that come eight individual memberships that can be given out to members of the community. The time has come to select our representatives for 2015. (See TUG Membership: Names for 2014 for last year's selection.) ...

8

@JosephWright Yay!

@JosephWright The current question on meta about the bad question ban made me think about another user -> tex.stackexchange.com/users/67733/user67733

@Johannes_B Yes
@Johannes_B An ongoing issue: he keeps making new accounts

@JosephWright REALLY? Sorry, really? -)

9:32 AM
@Johannes_B I think so

@JosephWright Maybe its one of his study buddies :-) Can you give an example?

There's a panda in here!

@Johannes_B Actually, it might only be one other account

Gao~

@GaoWeiwei Hello! :)
@Joseph: can we suggest people for the membership? :)

9:35 AM
@JosephWright feature star maybe? :)

@yo' OK

@PauloCereda Hello, I'm here to ask questions, but I can also observe you people if now's not a good time.

@PauloCereda In the past we've gone with self-nomination, partly as we don't already know who's in TUG
@GaoWeiwei Go for it

@JosephWright Yep. :) I meant here in the chatroom, so we can poke people later on. :)

@PauloCereda I am the walrus

9:37 AM
@Johannes_B See how they fly like Lucy in the sky, see how they run!

I have a pdf file about 340 KB and I used a Ghostscript command copied off somewhere and compressed it to about 260 KB. There is an image file of about 100 KB in it. Can I compress more?

Here it goes: I would like to nominate Julien Cretel, aka Jubobs. :)

@PauloCereda I have to say, i am a little bit dissappointed to learn that Fraga is not a femal name. :-(

@Johannes_B hm? What happened?

I have also used three fonts, but I expect the pdf (4 pages) to be under 200 KB. Can I gain much by removing unneeded packages?

9:40 AM
going to peaceful Paris. See you from there!

yo people (also @yo'), we have a yolo too! Yo! :)

@PauloCereda I read about strawberries (Fragaria) and thought, nice name for a girl.

@PauloCereda YOOOOO! :) \Alpen accent

@yo' Not peaceful at the moment. :( Take care Tom, and have a safe trip. :)

@PauloCereda But it is no name (yet).

9:41 AM
@Johannes_B Fraga is surely a surname, we have a bank president with it. :)

@yo' The same from my side, have a safe trip :-)

@GaoWeiwei Packages don't impact on file size unless they cause additional fonts to be embeded

@PauloCereda I am going to make that a valid first name. I like it.

@Johannes_B :)

@GaoWeiwei For example, a short demo
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{lipsum}
\usepackage{graphicx}

\begin{document}

\lipsum

\lipsum

\begin{figure}
\includegraphics[width=\textwidth]{example-image-a}
\end{figure}

\end{document}
comes out as only around 30 kb for 4 pages.
@GaoWeiwei I think we'll need to see some example input to make suggestions

9:44 AM
How do you format in chat? Like this?

@GaoWeiwei Backticks do inline code, four-space indenting does block code but if you paste in multiple lines you should see a 'fixed font' button next to 'Upload'

% !TeX program = XeLaTeX
\RequirePackage[l2tabu,orthodox]{nag}
\documentclass[12pt]{article}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\usepackage{xeCJK}
\setCJKmainfont{華康鐵線龍門W3}
\newCJKfontfamily\hkwzmt{華康文徵明體W4}
\setmainfont{Gentium Basic}
\usepackage[verbose=silent]{microtype}
\usepackage[x11names]{xcolor}
\usepackage{fancyhdr,datetime,lastpage}
\pagestyle{fancy}
\fancyhf{}
\fancyhead[R]{\the\year\,.\,\twodigit\month\,.\,\twodigit\day}
That's the preamble.
\begingroup
\setlength{\intextsep}{0pt}
\begin{wrapfigure}{L}{40mm}
\includegraphics[width=39mm,height=39mm]{cv-photo}
\end{wrapfigure}
\endgroup

@GaoWeiwei Ah, your fonts will come out a lot bigger than the Roman alphabet ones

@JosephWright How do you tell? Because there are many Chinese characters?

@Johannes_B @Paulo I'll do fine. Don't worry :)

9:53 AM
@JosephWright I used gs -sDEVICE=pdfwrite -dCompatibilityLevel=1.4 -dNOPAUSE -dQUIET -dBATCH -sOutputFile=foo-compressed.pdf foo.pdf

@GaoWeiwei Yes
@GaoWeiwei I've no real experience with this beyond knowing they are bigger!

@JosephWright In MS Word, I remember there is an option to embed only those characters used, which greatly reduces size. Is there something similar that I can do with PDFs?
Oh OK. Thanks for your help!

@GaoWeiwei You should get a subset anyway: check the Document Properties of the PDF in Adobe Reader (for example) to see this
@GaoWeiwei If you have the command line tool pdffonts installed you can see using that if they are subsetted

@JosephWright Since I'm on Windows, I'll use xpdf and try out. I appreciate your help.
@JosephWright Seems like they're embedded. Is this as far as I can go?

10:14 AM
@GaoWeiwei I suspect so

;_;

10:31 AM
@JosephWright How come the original already has font embedded, but is like 80 KB larger?
And does having fewer object mean less space occupied?

@GaoWeiwei GhostScript can re-compress the streams in the PDF: it tends to be better at this than the TeX engines

@JosephWright wow, about 20% gain, it's quite impressive!
@JosephWright I'll take my leave now, thank you Joseph!

1 hour later…
11:46 AM
Good maen ;-)

12:05 PM
^^ I actually posted this spinning thingy. :)

@PauloCereda a good morning's work

@DavidCarlisle ooh :)

12:25 PM
@PauloCereda good job we've got a test suite....

@DavidCarlisle Oh no!

@PauloCereda I may possibly have inserted a minor typing error into a docstrip guard and caused a large chunk of the latex sources to be skipped while making the format.....

@DavidCarlisle :-)

@DavidCarlisle Faster compilation then? :)

@JosephWright running build doc now, then will check in a few more bits and pieces moved from fixltx2e, then probably that's it until this evening

12:32 PM
@DavidCarlisle Bruno seems to want to stay as-is!

@Johannes_B: The private-message - guy... aka Banana^2 ;-)

@JosephWright seems that way

1:26 PM
@ChristianHupfer Did you know that you can reply to any special message? This little crocked arrow is great ;-)

@Johannes_B: What do you mean?

@ChristianHupfer Mahlzeit :-)
@ChristianHupfer See the little arrow next to the @-sign in the above message? Please click on it.

@Johannes_B: I tend to ignore crooked arrows ... they represent a very suspicious form of vectors ;-)

@ChristianHupfer But it is nice to click on it and see exactly what post you (or anyone) is referring to.

@Johannes_B: Where's the fun for you to find out which message was meant? ;-)
@Johannes_B: Let alone the fun for me seeing you being confused :-P

1:39 PM
@ChristianHupfer The thing is, i am a lazy duck. I don't.

@PauloCereda: We have another duck in here ;-) @Johannes_B

@ChristianHupfer WHERE?!

@PauloCereda 2 lines up

@PauloCereda: We are the Ducks.... Resistance is futile-- we will quack you

Sometimes penguin, sometimes duck, sometimes walrus. I am Theodor Tierlieb.

1:43 PM
@Johannes_B: I represent only one animal: The mean, bad and evil teacher :D

@ChristianHupfer btw teacher, i bet this was a teacher as well: youtube.com/watch?v=IIccxUW9fJI

@Johannes_B: Lol ... DDR Verkehrskontrolle
I am off for a while... see you later on

2:16 PM
@PauloCereda Happy New Year! The following is relevant for you: tex.stackexchange.com/a/222267/15925

Hi everyone!
Anybody here good at elsarticle document class?

@subhamsoni With a minimal example, testing can be done pretty fast.

@AndrewSwann Happy New Year, Andrew! Thanks, I'll take a look! :)
@AndrewSwann: speaking of arara , do you mind if I ask you a question? :)

@PauloCereda Fire away!

@AndrewSwann Would you like to help us translate arara? :)
The application, I mean. :)

2:27 PM
@Johannes_B but many times questions posted based on elsarticle in tex.stackexchange take time to reply
So I wanted to know if anyone can help me right now

@subhamsoni Many questions on TeX.SX are about changing the layout. But the journal has a fixed layout. So the only valid answer/advice would be: Don't do it.

@Johannes_B But I am taking this only for reference. Being I want to write the paper using this class

@subhamsoni Without knowing the problem, how could anyone know if help can be provided?

Shall I post the question in stackexchange or here? @Johannes_B

@subhamsoni Try here, if it is a good question that can help others or needs some more attention, move it to main. We can check.

2:31 PM
See this is my modified version of the elsarticle
the MWE is as follows:
\documentclass[times,final,twocolumn]{elsarticle}
\usepackage{kantlipsum}
\usepackage{booktabs}
\usepackage{xpatch}
\makeatletter
\def\ps@pprintTitle{%
\def\@oddfoot{}%
\let\@evenfoot\@oddfoot}
\xpatchcmd{\abstract}{\textwidth}{\columnwidth}{}{}
\long\def\MaketitleBox{%
\resetTitleCounters
\def\baselinestretch{1}%
\begin{center}%
\def\baselinestretch{1}%
\Large\@title\par\vskip18pt
\normalsize\elsauthors\par\vskip10pt
I made the abstract to come in the first column. But the rest of the text are left unmodified. How to remove the space on the right of abstract?

@PauloCereda I guess you mean into Danish. My immediate thought is that there a much better qualified person on the floor below, namely Lars Madsen (daleif). He has the advantage of being a native speaker.

@AndrewSwann Oh my, the Lars Madsen, the memoir expert?
@Andrew: But we would like to have you in the team. :)

@PauloCereda The very same.

@Johannes_B you there?

@subhamsoni Now i am, without pinging me i won't notice any changes here. I have a short attention span ;-)

2:40 PM
aha so you got the problem I am facing? @Johannes_B

@subhamsoni Well, you need to give me some minutes to look at the matter.
@subhamsoni This is a typical case of Don't do it. Elsevier will revert your changes (or even reject your paper).

@Johannes_B please I already told you, I am not submitting this to elsiver
@Johannes_B

@subhamsoni using a journal class when not submitting to the journal is weird:-) You can not report problems to the class maintainers (as you are not using their submission system) and the usual open source routes are likely to be slower because people are less familiar with them and less inclined to fix them as they can not alter the sources and the publishers have people paid to maintain them....

@subhamsoni The standard classes are called standard classes because they define very very basic set of macros. Hournals use those basic macros to define a template for their own needs. You now want to whack the journals defs back to the original ...
\documentclass[times,final,twocolumn]{elsarticle}
\usepackage{kantlipsum}
\usepackage{booktabs}
\usepackage{xpatch}
\makeatletter
\def\ps@pprintTitle{%
\def\@oddfoot{}%
\let\@evenfoot\@oddfoot}
\xpatchcmd{\abstract}{\textwidth}{\columnwidth}{}{}
\long\def\MaketitleBox{%
\resetTitleCounters
\def\baselinestretch{1}%
\begin{center}%
\def\baselinestretch{1}%
\Large\@title\par\vskip18pt
\normalsize\elsauthors\par\vskip10pt
\footnotesize\itshape\elsaddress\par\vskip36pt

@DavidCarlisle @Johannes_B Thanks for the help!

2:55 PM
@subhamsoni But this is a basic misunderstanding of many many many users. They are searching for a template to use. But you cannot start any LaTeX document using one of the basic templates article, report or book.

I got an alternative. Here sharelatex.com/project/54ae99fc97caad8e29a6f40e. It is very similar to what I want. The IEEE class

@subhamsoni but that is another class designed to use for a specific journal publisher and supported by that publisher solely for submissions to IEEE Journals.

@subhamsoni Forget the code above. Use \section*{Abstract}. This is basically, what the plain old article class does for a twocolumn document.

Hmmm ok got it!
Thanks

@Johannes_B @subhamsoni or better just use article and \begin{abstract}...

2:59 PM
@DavidCarlisle @subhamsoni Seconded!
@subhamsoni I once hat a user with some whacky template by a university s/he wasn't even studying at. It defined section titles differently. The user wanted to revert it in a way, that was exactly the standard of article. And that was all the template was doing, redefining the titles. Kicking the package in the trash bin was the simple solution.

@PauloCereda Let's discuss this via email

@AndrewSwann Sure. :)

3:22 PM
@ChristianHupfer Not a single recipe containing liver :-( chefkoch.de/magazin/artikel/3155,0/Chefkoch/…

@Johannes_B: I am not surprised :-D
@PauloCereda: @Johannes_B is talking about "food" and I appear ...

@ChristianHupfer But a lot with pumpkin and asparagus. Bäh.

@ChristianHupfer :)

@Johannes_B: Now think about the popularity of liver ;-)

@ChristianHupfer Wanna know what we will have on the weekend?

3:33 PM
@Johannes_B: We? Am I invited? If liver is to be put on the dishes I won't come ;-)

@ChristianHupfer We planned Solyanka
@ChristianHupfer A friend and me. But can can come. But have have to help another friend move :-p

@Johannes_B: I'll have another appointment... for two reasons: 1st. I don't like Solyanka and 2nd: I moved recently and am not inclined to help anybody else to move ... period!!!!

@ChristianHupfer Oh, puh. äh, ich hab keine Zeit, ich
muss noch Altglas wegschaffen.
hab noch Wurst im Auto
muss Sand schippen
bekomm an dem Tag ne Tonne Kies.
@ChristianHupfer Ausreden für jede Gelegenheit ;-)

@Johannes_B: Ja, Lebenserfahrung schafft genug Ausreden:-P
This is a typical split trap question, isn't it?
1

I am writing my thesis. To write math formulas I created the command \eq as follows. \newcommand{\eq}[1]{ $$\begin{split} #1 \end{split}$$} However, now I want to use cleveref together with autonum. I think, however, that this is not possible due to the wa...

@Johannes_B: Frohes Schaffen :-P

3:57 PM
@JosephWright I have sent a private message to the pgfplots user informing him about local user groups (giving him links as well). He might feel more comfortable if there is one in his native language. I think it really is a matter of language we are dealing here.

@Johannes_B Yes, could be
@Johannes_B I've suggested he posts in his native language and asks a 'passing native' for a translation

@JosephWright Do you by any chance know his native language?
@JosephWright Judging by the IP, there is a local user group. But that doesn't have to mean anything.

@Johannes_B I can guess, but that's purely based on the IP

@ChristianHupfer I guess so. I can't understand why \eq{...} should be deemed easier than $$...$$.
@ChristianHupfer Nor why one should want to use autonum.

@JosephWright I'm so sorry, but I didn't get the meaning of your comment.
@JosephWright Nevermind. You just completed it.

4:09 PM
@HenriMenke I sent it half-way through writing, by accident

@JosephWright So, you're saying that the unbroken ligature in XeTeX when loading an OpenType font is a bug?

@HenriMenke No

@JosephWright Then what does "any variations here are bugs" mean?

@HenriMenke I edited my comment to try to cover this: XeTeX shouldn't break anything with input that would also work with Knuth's TeX or e-TeX. Once you start using new features there are different design decisions. Kunth's TeX can't load OTF fonts, for example.

@ChristianHupfer I was just thinking back when i was at an actual MacDonalds. I had coupons and i decided to learn what a Latte Macchiato is. Got to the counter, said: A latte macchiato please. The woman looked at me and asked: Which taste? I bet i was never in my whole life more confused than in this second. After one or two seconds of pure puzzled staring i asked Kaffee?

4:16 PM
@HenriMenke As an example of where change cannot be avoided, see the trick in wiki.contextgarden.net/Encodings_and_Regimes for detecting engines
\def\"{0}\expandafter\def\csname^^^^^00022\endcsname{1}
\ifnum\"=0 \message{tex82}\else\message{newstuff}\fi
As XeTeX and LuaTeX extend the ^ syntax, it's not possible to do the same thing as classic TeX

@egreg: I never used autonum, I learned recently only of that package in a question... one of those rarely ones you answered ;-)
@JosephWright: I've never eaten at McDonalds... drank only a jar of Cola there

@JosephWright To detect engines, I used \ifx가가 so far.

@ChristianHupfer Yes, you know, bugs in etextools or tabu are my bread.

@ChristianHupfer You pinged the wrong guy ;-)

@HenriMenke Yes, I would too but the trick here picks up based on engine features, so would work with any other new engines that work with Unicode input and extend the ^ syntax. My point is that there are changes that automatically lead to issues

4:19 PM
@egreg: Yes, I remember, it was something about etextools... only a few days ago... those bugs are like the poison running through your veins, to cite Alice Cooper
@Johannes_B: He'll stand it ;-)

@HenriMenke Here's what I use
\begingroup
\catcode\^=7 \catcode30=12 \catcode\!=12 % for safety
\edef\next{\@gobble^^^^0021}
\expandafter\endgroup
\ifx\next\@empty
% unicode engine
\else
& 7-bit engine
\fi

@egreg I already saw that. You published that in some TUG proceedings if I recall it correctly. I still don't why you do \catcode30=12 \catcode\!=12.

5:03 PM
@HenriMenke 30 is what in TeX would be represented by ^^^; I need it to be category code 12 because LaTeX makes it category code 15. \catcode\!=12 is just being a bit paranoic. ;-) It is ASCII 0x21.

5:16 PM
Is there a question somewhere which shows how to pass unknown keys, parsed using expl3 stuff, to a command which uses keyval syntax? I'm trying to rewrite a command to use expl3 keys but I can't figure out how to pass unknown keys to \includegraphics[unknown keys]{image}.. I can get them into a token list and typeset them verbatim in my document, but I can't get \includegraphics to take any notice - it doesn't complain, but it just ignores them.

@cfr You are using the special unknown key I assume

@JosephWright Yes. That's how I got it into the token list.

@cfr Can we see an example :-)

@JosephWright But don't assume that I am doing anything sensible!

@JosephWright: ^^

5:21 PM
@JosephWright OK. But you'll laugh.
\tl_new:N \g_cfr_imgopts_tl
\keys_define:nn { cfr / coursepacket / clawr }
{
prog .tl_set:N = \l_cfr_prog_tl
}
\NewDocumentCommand\clawr{ o g }{%
\group_begin:
\IfValueTF{#1}{\keys_set_known:nnN { cfr / coursepacket / clawr } { #1 } { \g_cfr_imgopts_tl } }{\relax}%
\thispagestyle{empty}%
\begin{titlingpage}
\begin{center}
\IfValueTF{#2}{\includegraphics[\g_cfr_imgopts_tl]{#2}\bigskip}{\mbox{}}%
\end{center}
\end{titlingpage}
\l_cfr_prog_tl
\group_end:
}

@cfr For a start you need to make sure you expand the variable you pass to \includegraphics: \expandafter\includegraphics\expandafter[\g_cfr_imgopts_tl] or similar

@JosephWright Thank you! (I didn't know you could use \expandafter in the way the second one is used i.e. where it has a bracket after it rather than another command.

@cfr Bit of a mix of styles
@cfr [ is just a token

@JosephWright Trust me to pick something which needs that the first time I try to use this stuff.
@JosephWright Do tokens expand?

@cfr Depends :-)

5:27 PM
@JosephWright Hmmm.... And it seems I don't have to do anything special with the closing bracket....

@cfr No

@JosephWright That just feels wrong, somehow. I want things to balance!

@cfr This will expand the token list variable passed as optional argument to \includegraphics; just a bit of magic with variants.
\documentclass{memoir}
\usepackage{xparse}

\ExplSyntaxOn

\cs_new:Npn \cfr_includegraphics:nn #1 #2
{
\includegraphics[#1]{#2}
}
\cs_generate_variant:Nn \cfr_includegraphics:nn { V }

\tl_new:N \l_cfr_imgopts_tl
\keys_define:nn { cfr / coursepacket / clawr }
{
prog .tl_set:N = \l_cfr_prog_tl
}

\NewDocumentCommand\clawr{ O{} g }
{
\group_begin:
\keys_set_known:nnN { cfr / coursepacket / clawr } { #1 } \l_cfr_imgopts_tl
\thispagestyle{empty}
\begin{titlingpage}
\centering
\IfValueTF{#2}
@cfr However, I'd avoid g type arguments.

5:44 PM
@egreg Is that better? I only ask because it uses New Things I Don't Understand. I only used the g because the example in the documentation for \tl_new did and I though I might need to since I defined it outside the \group_begin: stuff. (As you can tell, I have no idea what I'm doing.)
Is it better to turn expl3 on locally or for the whole class or package?

@cfr I was talking about \NewDocumentCommand\clawr{ O{} g }, not the \g_cfr bit. That token list should be local, because it's set and used in the same scope and not needed elsewhere.
@cfr By the way, \keys_set_known:nnN does a local assignment.

@egreg Oh, right. I don't usually use g. But I think it is better here because I don't want to break existing documents more than I can help. (And I will never remember to put the image file name in square rather than curly brackets.)

@egreg I spotted a stray g in the above: edited to l

@JosephWright Thanks

6:03 PM
Ah. How do I get spaces back?!

6:27 PM
@cfr Tilde ~

6:54 PM
@cfr Did you do \ExplSyntaxOff?

Why does fontspec replace certain fonts in mathmode with legacymaths?

7:07 PM
The new arara README:
@Jubobs: Hi! Would you be interested in a TUG membership? meta.tex.stackexchange.com/questions/5905/… I thought of you. :)
@Joseph: could you ping Julien for me? I'm not sure I'll get the ping. :(

@PauloCereda Julien?

@JosephWright Jubobs.

@PauloCereda Ah

@JosephWright :)

@Jubobs See above: @PauloCereda is after you!

7:19 PM
@JosephWright Thank you, kind sir!
Joseph loves mr. @. :)

@HenriMenke Ask Will Robertson, I guess!
@PauloCereda Grrr

@JosephWright <3

@PauloCereda nearly the fastest

@MarcoDaniel sound barrier breaker. :)

7:35 PM
@egreg Yes but I had text within the command. I've just used \ to hard code the spaces, which is probably not best but works for now.
@Johannes_B Thanks. \ works better in this case as it allows line breaks.

@HenriMenke From the fontspec docs: "Knuth’s CM fonts fonts are all squashed together, combining letters, accents, text symbols and maths symbols all in the one font, cmr, plus other things in other fonts. Because we are changing the roman font in the document, we need to redefine all of the maths glyphs in LATEX’s operators maths font to still go back to the legacy cmr font for all these random glyphs, unless a separate maths font package has been loaded instead."

@JosephWright Thanks for letting me know.
@PauloCereda Hey Paulo. Thanks for thinking about me :) Let me think about it. I'll get back to you in half and hour or so.

@Jubobs It would be great to have your name in the list. :)

@AlanMunn Thank you for pointing that out, but honestly I don't see any difference between math and no-math, even if I change the roman font to, say, Libertine.

@cfr in expl3 code ~ is a space token not a non breaks space command so it does nothing after a command name, just like the space in \mbox {..} does nothing other than terminate the command
@HenriMenke the classic math setup (if not using unicode-math) assumes for example that the roman font has upper case greek in the first few slots eg Gamma in position 0, this is not true of a typical system font

7:52 PM
@DavidCarlisle Why doesn't $\Gamma$ fail then?

8:04 PM
Good maen

@HenriMenke Reading the comments in the package, it's using the legacymaths business to load accents for a small number of maths font packages so they come from the 'correct' place
@HenriMenke There are also a small set of other chars, but it's quite small

@JosephWright I didn't manage to break it. Maybe the things I'm doing are not weird enough :)

@HenriMenke because the math fonts are using the old scheme as it says in the text you quoted, or because you are using unicode-math in which case the math fonts are using Unicode layout but the definition of \Gamma has changed not to refer to slot 0

@cfr: I would like to nominee you for TUG membership contest .. or encourage you to apply for it ;-)

@ChristianHupfer You were not convinced to use the form starred on the right then?

8:15 PM
@DavidCarlisle: That's marvellous...but too much TeX in it ;-)

@ChristianHupfer would emacs lisp have been better? (you could use that form for greeting @PauloCereda especially)

@DavidCarlisle: Like Monty Python... in order to annoy @PauloCereda everything fits ;-)
@DavidCarlisle: But be assured: I have starred your line yesterday

8:35 PM
@JosephWright I think I'm in an infinite loop

@DavidCarlisle With?

@JosephWright email:-)

@DavidCarlisle Thought so
@DavidCarlisle I'm with you on the likely take up by package authors
@DavidCarlisle One for L3 if at all

@PauloCereda Done. Thanks ;) I have credited you, in my now deleted answer, as the TeX.SX member who suggested I put my name down.

@PauloCereda “Caro nome” from Rigoletto by Joe Green playing. ;-)

8:46 PM
@JosephWright I read that as if by the 3 musketeers the first two times

@DavidCarlisle :-)

@Jubobs Yay, thank you very much! :)
@egreg LOL

@PauloCereda Of course, you know I like better Jack Brook's music.

@egreg Uh-oh, I'm lost now. :)

@HenriMenke just looking at your {} question, as noted in comments Joseph's answer is extensive, to see an excessive answer just look at (any of) @egreg's answers:-)

9:02 PM
@PauloCereda Jack=John, Brook=small river

@egreg oooooooh! :)

@PauloCereda Only in our inner circle we call JSB Jack. By the way, today is Elvis Presley's birthday! He would be 80.

@egreg Oh! :)

@PauloCereda This year JSB and GFH will be 330.

@egreg A nice celebration throughout the whole year. :)

9:12 PM
@PauloCereda I visited the burial place of both of them; different but equally moving. Bach has just his name on the ground, in the church were he worked; in the monument above his grave, Händel is represented composing the music for “I know that my Redeemer liveth”.

@egreg Great art. :) I've never visited places like these. :(

@PauloCereda @egreg's examples are Ok, but for high culture you want:

@PauloCereda Händel is in Westminster Abbey, London, where also Newton is buried (along with many others important people). Bach is in the Thomaskirche, Leipzig. Galileo Galilei (who died this day in 1642) is at Santa Croce in Florence. Let's see if @yo' knows the name of a great scientist buried in the Kostel Matky Boží před Týnem.
@PauloCereda On the contrary, Italy's greatest poet Dante is buried in a small chapel in Ravenna. The second one, Petrarca, is buried in the village near Padova where he lived his last years

@egreg I would like to visit them when in Europe. :)
@DavidCarlisle Certainly Elvis is alive. :)

9:28 PM
@PauloCereda he's probably hiding somewhere in South America...

9:41 PM
@DavidCarlisle Around Saõ Paulo, I'm told.

10:03 PM
@DavidCarlisle Thanks.
@ChristianHupfer Er... really?

@cfr: Why not?

Why are you guys being morbid? Discussing graves?

10:22 PM
@FaheemMitha: Today would have been Elvis' 80th birthday....

@ChristianHupfer Poor Elvis.
Some closet Elvis fans here?

@FaheemMitha: I am neither a real fan nor an objector of his music.

@FaheemMitha @egreg listens to nothing else

@ChristianHupfer OK
@DavidCarlisle Liar. :-)

@DavidCarlisle Also some heavy metal, from time to time.

10:28 PM
@FaheemMitha see you need to retract this, been confirmed true!

@egreg: The Great Expandafters, hm???

@DavidCarlisle I don't believe @egreg either.
Next he'll be saying he habitually listens to Cradle of Filth.

@egreg Rameaustein

@AlanMunn :)

@ChristianHupfer I don't like (and am very bad at) self-promotion. Mainly because I have nothing to promote :(.
@ChristianHupfer Why won't you nominate yourself?

10:38 PM
@ChristianHupfer \uchyph \vfuzz, a lesser know band.

@cfr: Are you kidding? Lol! I am a member for just one and a half year and my contribution to this site is still very limited, so it's not a good idea to promote myself. ... and no, this is not fishing for compliments
@egreg: Yes, unknown even to me ;-)

11:13 PM
@ChristianHupfer That is longer than I have been a member. Who's kidding who?

@cfr: I thought you are longer here than I am...

11:33 PM
@ChristianHupfer Nope ;).
@ChristianHupfer I just talk too much, so you think it has been longer than it has...

@cfr: ;-) Well, you can decide if you apply anyway...

@ChristianHupfer I don't think being a member of the site for a year merits asking to be considered for a year-long membership of TUG.
@ChristianHupfer (And no, I'm not fishing for compliments either.)

11:59 PM
@egreg I suppose you mean Tycho Brahe (commonly called Tycho de Brahe here) :)