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12:47 AM
@jkuczm No, I didn't. I decided to ask a question here and mail support, get a clearer picture of the state of tex stuff before doing annything
@halirutan Yes, that seems tempting
I'd rather have something that by default does nothing and asks for manual conversion, that can grow in time, very easily customizeable, that the one-fits-all that doesn't seem to work now
Because I don't actually need/want much now from the conversion
I don't mind the content looking different in MMA, I don't mind coding latex. I just want to avoid duplicating content, and I want to work dynamically in mma
@jkuczm If it is too hackly, I'd rather use an alternative approach.
I just hoped one could also apply a function to the full cell expression and not just the boxes
It would make ConversionRules more powerful
 
1:21 AM
@Rojo When you export whole notebooks, what do you expect should happen with e.g. graphics?
 
@halirutan Graphics that are inline or somewhere weird, it should fail or ask, unless the user has decided it should do something differently. I don't mind always putting graphics in its special style cell
in which case, perhaps create a figure environment, allow for captions and ref somehow, convert it to a file with some criteria or manually specified in the cell, not sure
but, given the notebook, it should be transparent what the latex code will be, or at least easy to tweak
Transparent, custimizeable, not-smart, learns with you
 
@Rojo I mean, basically you only need a translator for boxed data. I kind of did something similar when I was extracting the usage messages of all built-in functions and converted them to MathML
@Rojo This here
3
A: Transform fancy usage messages in 1D string

halirutanI think I found an easy solution. Although my question was how to extract a simple 1d string, I show how to transform usages into nice and simple html. The rules for this can be adapted so that each box-structure is converted into whatever representation is wanted. The basic trick is the followi...

 
@halirutan Yeah, something quite simple. I am every minute more convinced to just write something up. Let's see that
 
@Rojo The basic idea is that you look at the box structure of your formulas and stuff and simply write down a rule how to convert it to tex
 
1:39 AM
@halirutan Yes. And at cell level. Thanks
 
@Rojo I guess after the work of a night it should be clear whether you can implement it straight forward or whether there are heavy problems.
 
@halirutan I'll let you know :P
 
2:25 AM
@Rojo, @halirutan Guys, just a quick note: when I was working on the code formatter, I initially went down the same road (just translator from boxes), but then it turned out that boxes are a bit too low-level. It may or may not be relevant in your context, because the problem is somewhat different. But you might also benefit from introducing some intermediate inert symbolic representation, like I did for formatter.
 
@LeonidShifrin Merry Christmas :-)
 
@halirutan Merry Christmas :)
@halirutan It should be rather late at your place, isn't it?
 
@LeonidShifrin Nooo, it's quite early!
No one is already up except for me.
 
Well, that better describes my place now :)
In fact, I was going to get some sleep, when I saw this conversation.
So, what keeps you up this early ?
 
@LeonidShifrin About the box structures: It really hard to circumvent mistakes you made without your experience. I wouldn't know a better way than just trying for a night and see how it goes.
@LeonidShifrin I'm currently working on a small side project called the new linksnooper
 
2:29 AM
Yep, I saw that. What you have so far looks very nice
 
It looks indeed nice
But now I'm struggling with some JavaFX issues I cannot explain.
 
@halirutan I've never JavaFX, only heard about it. It is supposed to revitilize the notion of applets, isn't it?
 
Fortunately, I could pin it down to a few lines of example code.
@LeonidShifrin I have no idea. I'm a JavaFX pro for two nights now.
 
@halirutan Oh, I see. I actually glanced through your original question on SO, which led to that suggestion, a day or two ago.
 
@LeonidShifrin I was so desperate because I didn't wanted to implement everything from scratch that I asked.
As it turned out I had to put a bounty on it to get at least some attention.
 
2:33 AM
@halirutan Well, I'd do the same, probably (I mean, try to piggyback on something)
This is usually the best way. Saved me a lot of trouble with e.g. RLink
 
@LeonidShifrin I remember us chatting around here a couple of Christmas back. Time flies
Merry christmas @Leonid and @halirutan
 
@Rojo Yep. This was the end of 2012, M9 with my first production installment (RLink) was just out, and I had to "come out" as well, could not hide my affiliation any longer :)
Merry Christmas, @Rojo
 
@LeonidShifrin Haha, true. How's your second production installment going?
 
@Rojo Actually, not that bad. There is some decent chance for it to see the light in 10.0.3, which would hopefully be a useful thing to many.
@Rojo Did you ever want to e.g. sort a 50 million row dataset using about 100Mb of RAM, with the speed similar to that of in-memory Sort?
 
@LeonidShifrin :D
Really, those kinds of things would be terribly useful to me
 
2:39 AM
@LeonidShifrin Do you mean a Dataset or just some data set?
 
@Rojo Well, Ok, 500 million should be possible too (didn't try that yet though)
@halirutan Let's say Dataset
@halirutan just for the sake of an example :)
 
I want 10.0.3 for Christmas
 
@Rojo Well, me too :) But, really, there are a few loose ends I need to take care of. It's not just about sorting, of course.
 
@LeonidShifrin I only tried using an association with 2^26 entries.. did not end up well.
 
@halirutan Well, so far, my stuff won't help with that case (huge associations). At this time, I serve lists only :)
@halirutan But they can be interesting. Infinite, for example.
 
2:43 AM
@LeonidShifrin Hummm
 
@LeonidShifrin So like in Haskell..
 
@halirutan Yes, but with their own specifics.
@halirutan In many cases, they can be as fast as in-memory lists. But this doesn't come without a price.
 
@LeonidShifrin and was this project your idea and were you assigned to it?
(because I guess some of the implementation details might need some reading for the un-experienced, no?)
 
@halirutan A kind of a mix of both things. I've been actually really lucky with my projects so far.
 
(reading up on Haskell infinite lists)
 
2:47 AM
@halirutan Well, yes. But I didn't actually read anything (except WReach's great answer on lazy lists - but I'm quite far from there by now), was just designing from scratch. It turned out though, that my design was amazingly similar to the design of similar structures in some other languages.
@halirutan Actually, the hardest part here is very Mathematica-specific, and has to do with speed, of course.
 
@LeonidShifrin And did you implement it in high-level Mathematica or in low-level (if you can tell that)?
 
@halirutan All top-level Mma
@halirutan Which I am proud of :)
@halirutan @Rojo That's probably as much as I can tell now :(
 
@LeonidShifrin This is indeed nice and I'm sure you can be proud of this.
 
@LeonidShifrin Its ok, that's more than I expected. That's why I swallowed all my questions
Very nice feature. I wouldn't have expected such a feature to come out in a point release
 
@halirutan Well, more than anything, I liked the fact that top-level Mma was actually suitable to write such a thing, at least so far.
 
2:50 AM
I was reading some answer of, I guess, Daniel Lichtblau about compiling quicksort and come near the internal implementation. I tried myself and couldn't find a place for optimization but the speed was not even close..
 
@halirutan I can't really beat Sort with no args. But as soon as you provide a testing function, I can get more or less even. Besides, my implementation has other virtues.
 
@LeonidShifrin Then let's wait for release 3 and see what you've got..
 
@Rojo There is a chance that I won't get this in time for 10.0.3 though. It's hard to say now.
@halirutan All right :) @halirutan, @Rojo Ok, guys, gtg, need to get a few hours of sleep :)
 
@LeonidShifrin Measured by the announcements and final dates for 10.0.2 you still have a lot of time :-)
 
@halirutan Well, I hope so :)
 
2:54 AM
@LeonidShifrin Good night.
 
@halirutan More precisely "good morning" :) It's 6 a.m. here
 
@LeonidShifrin 4:00 here.. so good morning and sleep well.
 
@halirutan Later!
 
@LeonidShifrin See you around
 
@Rojo See you!
@halirutan Thanks!
 
 
10 hours later…
12:37 PM
@halirutan @SimonWoods I sent my RAM stick to the seller and they sent back a new one which is now working perfectly :) I'm assuming that I was unlucky enough to get a faulty stick :)
 
12:52 PM
@Öskå Nice to hear.
 
1:23 PM
Indeed! That was quite weird but I'm glad it works now :)
Merry Chritmas to all of you! Have a lovely Chritmas Eve
 
 
2 hours later…
3:23 PM
Stack people! Merry Christmas!
 
3:56 PM
Merry Christmas!
 
4:39 PM
Seasonal greetings, everyone! No snow in sight.
 
5:08 PM
@YvesKlett Nope, unfortunately not. The fireside is ready to rock and I need -20 deg C :-(
 
5:30 PM
@halirutan never mind - light a candle for your fellow Stackers (Stackians? Stackos?) O:-)
 
 
2 hours later…
7:16 PM
@Murta I suppose to be PC you should say "seasons' greetings" or something. :o
Try translating that to your native language and observe how utterly minimal information content that phrase has.
-10 C and 10 cm of extra snow today here, though.
 
 
2 hours later…
9:44 PM
@kirma 21º in SP. Tks for PC tip.. "Merry Christmas" to you.. :p
 
;)
 

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