/dev/chat

Braiam

12:55 AM

@NoTime I would check /var/log/Xorg.0.log for differences

No Time

cat anything?

@Braiam paste.ubuntu.com/7993635

(grepped Elan) for Elantech

There are motherboards with linux included on them?

casey

4:27 AM

@NoTime motherboards typically don't have operating systems. You need some non-volatile storage (bigger than a UEFI nvram chip) for that.

Faheem Mitha

8:11 AM

@Gilles your pal Andy Weir seems to be doing pretty well these days.

Faheem Mitha

9:21 AM

Candidate for closing:

-1

Q: how many linux and unix distros are there?

I'm trying to learn more about about unix and linux installing and unistalling a distro and installing another distro. so Would you please help me listing the unix distros and linux distros you know seperatly

Faheem Mitha

9:35 AM

@NoTime you could post your Ubuntu and Debian X config files for comparison.

damien

11:06 AM

Hi there, anyone around?

Faheem Mitha

11:21 AM

@damien No

Just kidding.

damien

@FaheemMitha cool, hi! hey, I was wondering how much support one is supposed to do in the Q&A's. There's a user that seems to be getting a bit ahead of himself. I know that SE sites are somewhat allergic to comments. Should I just remain calm and factual or would it be OK to recommend to slow down a little?

I mean, the guy obviously knows a little bit about Unix, but not really all that much. Now it is plain that OpenBSD is not known for having all the latest and greatest packages, but what's there is usually good enough. He'll probably enter a world of pain if he goes further down this road by trying to compile security packages from source without knowing how to determine whether his tree contains gcc...

Faheem Mitha

@damien Well, the general idea is to stay calm, polite and "professional", whatever the other person says or does. This is, however, a platonic ideal that is rarely attained.

Wrt to the specific question, if you feel like providing handholding, go for it, as long as the poster is appreciative. If he isn't I suggest you drop the matter fairly speedily.

Just put yourself in the posters place, and ask yourself how you would like to be treated.

I usually provide a small suggestion, and see how it is treated. If he/she responds sensibly, then one can take it further. If not, then don't bother.

damien

11:37 AM

I see. Thanks, that looks like sound advice. I'll just wait a little and see how others react. In a few hours I might give some further hints.

Faheem Mitha

@damien ok

damien

I did make a few suggestions and linked him to a thread that discusses the thing he wants to improve. He might read it if I let him try to work things out. I also don't want to spoil the fun :)

Faheem Mitha

@damien That sounds reasonable. I see you are new here. How are you finding it?

damien

@FaheemMitha I like it. Lot's of really savvy people. Interesting questions, and some really really great answers.

Faheem Mitha

People have an unfortunate tendency to try to compile things from source, while they really should be using their distributions builds/binary packages instead. This comes up several times a week.

@damien That's good.

Which is not to say that people shouldn't know how to compile stuff themselves, but you don't necessarily want to install the results of your experimentation. :-)

damien

11:42 AM

@FaheemMitha Well, it's sort of a rite of passage, isn't it? At some point you really want to achieve it, no matter what. I remembert the first time I compiled my own custom kernel, and it actually worked. It was braindead, but it felt great.

Faheem Mitha

@damien That's true.

I tried compiling R from source in 1998. I remember I was terrified out of my wits. Well, slight exaggeration, but it was certainly tense.

I think I had someone on the phone telling me what to do, too. :-)

damien

Well there was not much choice but compile from source back then, was there?

Faheem Mitha

@damien Binary packages existed in 1998. :-) But it was a smaller scene.

SAMdroid

These days it is so hard to compile from source... the size of some of those packages... they take one whole day!

That scares me away :)

Faheem Mitha

I remember I was using RH 5.2 or something. But I didn't at the time have any idea how to build from a source rpm. People usually figure distribution packaging after learning to compile from source.

@SAMdroid Depends on your computer, and often builds in parallel using multiple cores are an option. Actually I often backport packages by rebuilding the source. But I do it within the distributions packaging. In my case, Debian.

damien

11:46 AM

@FaheemMitha Well, around then I was using slackware at home which never had binaries as long as I used it (it does now, as far as I know).

SAMdroid

@f

damien

(at least inofficially)

SAMdroid

Oops :)

@FaheemMitha I suppose it is only true for the big things (gnome, webkit...). When I think about it I compile all my go apps and their deps

Gilles

1

Q: A game to help learning Ubuntu commands

I'm looking for a game that helps to learn the very basic commands of Linux/Ubuntu in a fun way (somehow like vim-adventures). The game should be user-friendly to someone who has never touched Ubuntu before. The game must run on Windows 8 or run online. It would cost less than $100. Must be ch...

ubuntu game educational

Faheem Mitha

@damien Right, well, I've never used Slackware. But as of 1998, both RH and Debian had binary packaging.

Gilles

11:53 AM

@damien I think it's been a decade since I compiled my own kernel (for a PC — professional embedded development is of course another matter). It's great that someone's done the job once and for all.

@damien I'm pretty sure Slackware has always had binaries

Faheem Mitha

@SAMdroid Well, I've recently rebuilt Debian sources for gcc, clang, and texlive on my computer. I use kde, but I don't think I'd try to compile that. I don't really use it, anyway. I might be better off with something smaller/simpler.

Gilles

that was the point of SLS and its successor Slackware: distribute a bunch of useful applications in ready-to-use form

Faheem Mitha

@Gilles Agreed. That's the point of a distribution, really. Reduce duplicated effort.

It's been ages since I compiled my own kernel. I just use the Debian stock builds.

Braiam

@Gilles what's the difference between "Ubuntu commands" and "possible command line commands"?

Faheem Mitha

@Braiam Context?

Braiam

12:01 PM

@FaheemMitha see what I'm replying to

Faheem Mitha

@Braiam Right. Sorry.

@SAMdroid Note that you can also delete comments here, but only for a few minutes, I think.

Gilles

@Braiam none

good point, edited

Faheem Mitha

Commands generally means the command line, I think.

Gilles

SR does have a problem with a lot of people asking “for Ubuntu” when their question would have exactly the same answers if they'd said “for Linux”

Faheem Mitha

@Gilles Or even, "for Unix".

Braiam

12:04 PM

@Gilles I know

Gilles

@Braiam If you're feeling bored, go through softwarerecs.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/ubuntu+-linux and edit the majority that isn't specific to Ubuntu

e.g. “integrates with Unity” is Ubuntu specific, but just about anything else isn't

Braiam

btw, he wants the program to run in Windows, no?

Gilles

@Braiam yes, which is weird

answers may well involve “run this in a VM”

damien

@Gilles Well, yes, the install CDs came with a rather full set of binaries which is sufficient for many needs. However, there was nothing beyond that, that's why slackbuilds exists. I distinctly remember having to compile quite a bit of stuff from source.

Gilles

@damien Slackware doesn't have many packages compared with Debian or Fedora, but it's a binary distro nonetheless

Faheem Mitha

12:13 PM

@damien Are you talking about the late 1990s?

damien

@Gilles Sure, sorry, the comment you responded to was really really badly formulated, I notice only now.

@FaheemMitha yes, or early 2000s.

Faheem Mitha

@damien ok

damien

@FaheemMitha By the way, the issue with the OpenBSD newbie seems to have sorted itself out (until the next roadblock, I guess :)). Thanks for your advice.

Faheem Mitha

@damien Sure thing. Don't start thinking you are responsible for the people who happen to wander in here, of course. That way lies madness.

ryekayo

Does anyone know if a VM can detect the dvd mount? I have tried the mount /dev/dvd /media and it was unsuccessful

damien

12:22 PM

@FaheemMitha I understand :) I'll try to restrain myself. Not my job to keep people from shooting themselves in the foot, as they like to say.

Gilles

@ryekayo are you trying to mount a virtual DVD, or a physical DVD on the host?

ryekayo

virtual

Gilles

then you must have misconfigured it

ryekayo

is there a way to confirm that

Gilles

ask a question on the site, showing exactly how you configured the virtual DVD, and copy-paste the command you ran and all error and log messages

ryekayo

12:25 PM

will do

Faheem Mitha

12:43 PM

@damien Right.

Faheem Mitha

3:39 PM

Am I misunderstanding this post?

"If there is a /foo/bar mount point (whether ro or rw), the mount command will likely fail." If I understand what you are saying correctly, I don't think this is true. — Faheem Mitha 17 mins ago

Faheem Mitha

4:02 PM

I suggested this would be better at dba.sx.

This is pretty general. The dba.sx site would be better for this, but is probably too general even for them. Suggestion: take it to the dba.sx chat and talk to them. Either they can answer your questions, or they may assist you in producing a clear question. — Faheem Mitha 1 min ago

Should I vtc as too broad, or could this be migrated to dba.sx? Though I doubt it is suitable even there in its current form.

No Time

@FaheemMitha you said to post X config files right?

I am assuming you mean the Xorg.0.log

Faheem Mitha

@NoTime That's an option.

@NoTime No, the config files, not the log files.

No Time

I have that in my question. You mean the xorg.conf I captured and made (new) from Ubuntu?

Faheem Mitha

If I understand correctly, you are having trouble merging some config from the Ubuntu config (which works) to the Debian config (which doesn't).

@NoTime Oh. Let me look at it again.

No Time

I haven't added the xorg.conf I made

Faheem Mitha

4:07 PM

@NoTime Add the working Ubuntu config. Also, add the Debian config (before you made any changes to get the touchpad mouse to work).

You could also show the diff of your attempted changes to the Debian config.

You are keeping these config files under version control, right?

No Time

@FaheemMitha main thing I wasn't using xorg.conf it was going through udev (not sure where). I am not even sure it is pointing to that, or does it do it automatically?

Faheem Mitha

@NoTime The config was in udev? Can you paste it here?

I would expect it to be under /etc/X11. My config file is /etc/X11/xorg.conf. Afaik, that is what the X server reads.

No Time

I didn't have xorg.conf so it had to go through udev is my assumption. I wouldn't know how to how to grep the results of udev

I had to add that directory and file yes

I am going to need a hand hold for some of these things unfortunately... I don't know commands very well or filestructure.. I am reading as much as I can but I haven't gotten too far into configuration changes

My xorg.conf for [debian] (paste.ubuntu.com/7999688)

in /etc/X11/xorg.conf

Do I need to add something in the usr/lib/xorg/modules/ ?

Faheem Mitha

@NoTime This version is with the config for the touchpad added?

No Time

This is exact copy from command sudo X -configure

on my Ubuntu partition

copied onto Debian partition

would it matter that I use Unity (Ubuntu), GNOME3 for Debian

Faheem Mitha

4:18 PM

@NoTime Oh, I see.

Who told you to use sudo X -configure?

No Time

That was from a separate answer to different question (on how to create xorg.conf)

I had to stop lightdm, grab config, then restart it

Faheem Mitha

It would be worth checking where on the Ubuntu installation that config is. You say there is no xorg.conf?

Try grepping in the /etc tree for some keywords.

@NoTime Have you managed to get X -configure looking the same on both machines? The next thing would be to compare the logs. The other obvious thing to is to make sure you have the same sw, preferably with similar version numbers, installed on both machines.

No Time

The kernel versions you mean correct?

I'll check I have to log and stuff

Faheem Mitha

@NoTime No, the X server related software.

No Time

4:38 PM

@FaheemMitha ok I see a difference right away between 2

paste.ubuntu.com/7999904 << Debian (from X -configure)

it's using core mouse

Faheem Mitha

@NoTime Ok. You mean the configs? Past them both in the question, and highlight the differences.

Also, compare the output of dpkg -l | grep xserver on the two machines. Most of those packages are irrelevant, and I doubt you need any special sw installed for your touchpad to work, but there is no harm in checking.

also check `apt-cache search touchpad` and see if any of those guys are installed on your Ubuntu system, and if so, check if it is installed on your Debian system.
`

No Time

I am going to have to keep switching back and forth aren't I?

Faheem Mitha

Particularly these:

xserver-xorg-input-mtrack - Multitouch X input driver
xserver-xorg-input-multitouch - Multitouch X input driver
xserver-xorg-input-synaptics - Synaptics TouchPad driver for X.Org server
xserver-xorg-input-synaptics-dev - Synaptics TouchPad driver for X.Org server (development headers)

@NoTime You just have one monitor?

No Time

lappy

same computer

Faheem Mitha

Ok, then I'd suggest writing it down in a notepad or printing it out.

Maybe both.

No Time

4:45 PM

I've been doing text files

Faheem Mitha

I don't think you need to worry about xserver-xorg-input-synaptics-dev.

If your home directory is common, you can just keep your notes there.

xserver-xorg-input-mtrack - Multitouch X input driver
xserver-xorg-input-multitouch - Multitouch X input driver
xserver-xorg-input-synaptics - Synaptics TouchPad driver for X.Org server

No Time

It's different partitions, I am just mounting from debian and grabbing whatever I need

Faheem Mitha

@NoTime oh

No Time

@FaheemMitha I am noticing more after reading the configure files... trying to highlight that

The mouse config has a lot less... Ubuntu is pointing/configuring more devices

and for some reason Ubuntu has more configurations for Monitors

Faheem Mitha

@NoTime Monitor config doesn't matter here. Focus on the pointing devices.

No Time

4:53 PM

@FaheemMitha ok then the Mouse0 is the same (at least pointing to same location)

/dev/input/mice

I can't cat the configuration file though I don't think

Faheem Mitha

@NoTime ?

Did you check the installed packages?

No Time

@FaheemMitha I am

I have to go back and forth

no mtrack

no multi

last one Ubuntu is using different driver (these are drivers right?)

ii xserver-xorg-input-synaptics-lts-trusty

on UBU

ii xserver-xorg-input-synaptics on Debian

all my xserver-* has the lts behind it (with Ubuntu versions behind it) on Ubuntu

@FaheemMitha do you need pastes?

Faheem Mitha

@NoTime Add all relevant information to the question.

Far more people will look at the question than will come here.

@NoTime That is probably the same as xserver-xorg-input-synaptics.

The lts-trusty just reflects the version/release, I think.

@NoTime dpkg -L xserver-xorg-input-synaptics | less shows what is in the package. The driver file is /usr/lib/xorg/modules/input/synaptics_drv.so.

No Time

5:12 PM

@FaheemMitha do you think replacing that would do it? I guess I can compare the 2

Faheem Mitha

@NoTime Replacing what?

No Time

The synaptics_drv.so

They differ according the diff

Faheem Mitha

@NoTime That doesn't mean anything. and no. don't replace them.

Please just paste the text directly into the question - don't add links.

No Time

ok

it will be like 4 pages then

Faheem Mitha

Unless it is incredibly large.

Well, I think there is a question limit, but it is quite large.

If you hit it, then you'll need to start putting stuff in links.

If the dpkg -l | grep xserver results results are the same, you don't need to paste them.

"Output of only file in /etc/udev/rules.d:" This is network stuff, not relevant. Leave out. Did you try grepping /etc like I suggested?

No Time

5:28 PM

I just posted stuff

Yeah no results

Maybe I typed it in wrong grep xorg /etc

in Ubuntu

Faheem Mitha

@NoTime What command did you use, and what keywords? did you use a recursive flag?

No Time

I can't remember that is it -r?

Faheem Mitha

@NoTime Right. Can you copy the command here?

No Time

grep xorg /etc -r Just did it, found some stuff I'll add to output

its running through shadow and stuff (don't think I need that)

Faheem Mitha

@NoTime No, grep stuff that you found via the X configure thing

You can get rid of those paste links once you have pasted.

No Time

5:34 PM

ok I'll grep my xorg.conf files from X configure

`ModulePath "/usr/lib/xorg/modules"`

Result

Faheem Mitha

@NoTime Grep all of /etc in Ubuntu with keywords from X configure. The idea is to figure out where the config is set. Unless it is generating it directly from the binaries using strings set at compile time.

No Time

Ok when I do X -configure it creates a file called xorg.conf.new

when I grep that for xorg it results in ModulePath "/usr/lib/xorg/modules"

You want me to grep /etc (in Ubuntu) for these:

xserver-xorg-input-mtrack - Multitouch X input driver
xserver-xorg-input-multitouch - Multitouch X input driver
xserver-xorg-input-synaptics - Synaptics TouchPad driver for X.Org server

?

Faheem Mitha

@NoTime No, grep /etc in ubuntu for words that appear in X -configure. E.g. ZAxisMapping

This is probably not very useful, but worth doing imo.

No Time

I am not getting anywhere just doing grep, do you want me to run it through a command first? i.e. ls -R |grep ZAxis*

from /etc folder

Faheem Mitha

No, try grepping for glx. This definitely must be set somewhere.

grep -r glx /etc/

No Time

5:45 PM

how do I remove garbage (like error not found)

Faheem Mitha

Or, better

grep -r intel /etc/

That is the card driver.

That really must be set somewhere.

Or the PCI:0:2:0

grep -r PCI:0:2:0 /etc/

No Time

I am getting results, but I am also getting like 50 "No such file or directory" interspersed, how do I remove the garbage

Faheem Mitha

@NoTime Like what? Oh, you'll need to run the grep as root

@NoTime As root?

No Time

yeah I'm sudo using

its running through the shadow directory too

from ../alternative/ghostscript-current/..

like it's running through temp directories that are changing it looks like (RAM?)

Faheem Mitha

@NoTime it is possible to exclude directories from grep, I'm sure. There may even be better way to this. Unfortunately, I'm fairly Unix-illiterate, so I can't help much there.

There are a fair number of people idling, but nobody else seems to be paying attention. It's the weekend.

No Time

5:51 PM

paste.ubuntu.com/8000451 if you want to see output. Seems last line is best

Faheem Mitha

@NoTime Looks like you've found your xorg.conf.

No Time

it's the one I created and copied to Debian

Faheem Mitha

Just check that is the same as what you get by doing X configure in Ubuntu

No Time

and Ubuntu

Faheem Mitha

@NoTime fyi, man grep says

--exclude-dir=DIR for excluding directories from recursive searches.

No Time

5:55 PM

ok

ty

Faheem Mitha

What else is in that /etc/dev/X11 on Ubuntu?

No Time

its in the question

first set of outputs

tried to make it more readable

Faheem Mitha

You wrote:

"I do not have a /etc/dev/X11/xorg.conf file, or a /etc/dev/X11/xorg.conf.d/ directory (neither Ubuntu or Debian)"

Which appears to be incorrect.

No Time

Yeah originally I didn't I will edit that

No Time

6:14 PM

ok.. I think I need to create a dir&file in etc/X11/xorg.conf.d

according to this guide linked as answer

then edit it..

I just don't understand why I can't find those configurations in Ubuntu

Faheem Mitha

@NoTime Where do you need to create it, and why?

You mean on Debian? If so, I don't think so.

No Time

@FaheemMitha https://wiki.debian.org/SynapticsTouchpad
Maybe I am reading this wrong

It shows in my Xorg.0.log that I have double and triple fingers enabled.

Faheem Mitha

In Debian, the xorg file is located at /etc/X11/xorg.conf. That has always been the case.

@NoTime I suggest getting rid of the dpkg -l | grep xserver stuff. I doubt it is significant.

And include the complete X logs for both Debian and Ubuntu.

Also get rid of the - Output of only file in /etc/udev/rules.d: - bit

I notice you also have a vesa section in Debian, but not in Ubuntu. That is useless - get rid of it.

No Time

@FaheemMitha versa section?

Faheem Mitha

@NoTime vesa. video card section.

No Time

6:28 PM

When you say X logs you Mean Xorg.0.log correct?

hit end of character limit

Faheem Mitha

@NoTime Right

No Time

should I grep my logs?

Faheem Mitha

@NoTime like I said, get rid of the dpkg -l | grep xserver stuff

No Time

I did

Faheem Mitha

@NoTime ok

@NoTime Include the whole log. If there is space, include it in the question, otherwise, include the paste.

No Time

6:38 PM

@FaheemMitha i have to fricken go

@NoTime ok

arrrrgh

ttyl

8:13 PM

homework? unix.stackexchange.com/q/149430/34796

Faheem Mitha

9:01 PM

Downvoting this one seems uncalled for:

-2

Q: Changed root permissions to 777

I was trying to change a file's permissions to 777 by using chmod -R settings.php, But I didn't realize it didn't enter it, so I went cd / and did the command: chmod -R 777 settings.php cd / And now I cant fix this, I cant login to my dedicated server, I don't know what to do. I have 2 other t...

ubuntu permissions

This guy broke his computer and is coming here for help. Nothing wrong with that.

Braiam

@FaheemMitha people thinks he didn't investigated enough, nor provided all the important details in a timely manner, wasting readers time

Faheem Mitha

@Braiam Hmm, maybe. But perhaps he just panicked.

I think downvoting was a little aggressive in this case.

Braiam

@FaheemMitha again, there's nothing aggressive with downvoting, voting is for the usefulness of the post, not against a user

in fact, I prefer someone downvoting me, rather than calling me an idiot in comments

Faheem Mitha

@Braiam Ok, but I don't know if the user would necessarily perceive it like that. But maybe this is something on which we will have to agree to disagree.

When I get downvoted on a site, particularly with no explanation, it feels like I'm being told to go away.

@Braiam Wouldn't you like to know why they are downvoting you?

Braiam

@FaheemMitha I assume they are calling me an idiot ;)

Faheem Mitha

9:12 PM

@Braiam If they are, presumably they have some reason for doing so, and should explain it.

Braiam

lets put it this way @FaheemMitha: If it was my first time playing in a basketball game, should I not be given a technical foul for punching someone in the face?

Faheem Mitha

@Braiam Yes, but that is not a comparable situation.

I disagree with your analogy.

Braiam

@FaheemMitha you didn't cleaned your room and got a punishment, you consider it unfair the punishment?

Faheem Mitha

If they don't want to make their own comment, at least they could upvote an existing comment saying - downvoted because...

@Braiam That's for little children.

Braiam

@FaheemMitha and?

Faheem Mitha

9:14 PM

@Braiam We're all (hopefully) adults here, and deserve to be treated as such. Anyway. you analogy fails again, because the child knows why he is being punished. Because he didn't clean his room.

I don't think downvoting is so bad as long as there is some explanation. Though I still don't like it.

Braiam

you didn't show any research in your question, shouldn't it be downvoted?

your question is unclear, shouldn't it be downvoted?

Faheem Mitha

@Braiam Fine, so say that. Perhaps go into a little detail.

Braiam

your question is unuseful for the site, shouldn't it be downvoted?

Faheem Mitha

@Braiam Ditto.

@Braiam If that was applied systematically, we'd have a lot more downvoted questions. Most of the questions on this site aren't so great, and many of them show a lack of research.

I don't think people should be too trigger-happy. Save downvotes for egregiously bad/stupid questions.

Braiam

@FaheemMitha I had a bad experience commenting when I downvoted people post, very similar to what Shog describe here so for me it was more productive not explaining downvotes when I made them

for example, this argument

instead of asking why people downvote the post why don't fix it @FaheemMitha?

you know the post lack luster, fix that, it's more productive than what we are doing now

Faheem Mitha

9:19 PM

@Braiam Well, if they know what to fix, then fine.

@Braiam Inreresting post, but I think different people respond differently. For example, I'm all for constructive criticism myself.

Maybe comment selectively?

Braiam

@FaheemMitha I see 5 comments in the post, you sure nobody explained already what's wrong with the post?

Faheem Mitha

So, you had similar experiences to Shog?

@Braiam None of them explain the downvoting.

Actually 6 now, two are mine.

two from the poster himself. the remaining two don't say anything related to the downvoting.

Braiam

@FaheemMitha you want someone saying "-1 because..."???? That's a massive waste of time, and distracts from the issue

Faheem Mitha

@Braiam Yes, I think that would on balance be good. But I agree there are arguments on both sides there. At least, I would prefer it for myself.

Transcript for